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Around SBN: Ohio State And Florida Target 2013 Receiver Recruits

For the Melky Haters

Relief is on the way.

But while general manager Brian Cashman has locked second baseman Robinson Cano into a long-term contract and has staked his own reputation on the abilities of young pitchers Joba Chamberlain, Phil Hughes and Ian Kennedy, he's not yet prepared to invest as heavily in the 23-year-old Cabrera.

"Melky has to fight for what he has," Cashman said. "I can't stand here and tell you he's going to be our center fielder moving forward. That's up to him."
...
"The game will tell you. That's the one great thing about all this - you can have your personal favorites but you can't fool the game," he said. "Right now Melky's got it. Brett's on the verge of being ready and Austin still needs some time to develop.

"In the end, I think we're going to have a great center fielder. It's just a question of who that is."

Brett Gardner shows that he knows the key to success in the big leagues.
"My biggest concern is getting on base. As long as I get on base, 37, 38, 39 percent of the time, I don't care if I hit any home runs. I want to be the table-setter for the Yankees," he said.
Critics (myself included) say that Gardner's minor league numbers are comparable to Melky's (.289/.381/.374 in 1115 ABs vs .294/.344/.422 in 1432 ABs, respectively). But I know (and Bill James agrees) that reaching bases is half again as valuable as hitting for power- though I use that term loosely to describe what these two do.

If Gardner can match his minor league numbers in the bigs (Melky has his percentages nearly dead-on) then Gardner will be the more valuable player in equal time. And since a good batting eye is not nearly as streaky as hitting, Gardner is better suited to a 4th outfielder role. Toss in Gardner's ability to run the bases (116 SB in 138 attempts) and it's clear who would be more valuable and who (via name recognition and the NY media bias) would be easier to move.

I'd suggest that this season will be Melky's high water mark for trade value. Frankly, I thought he'd be traded by now, but I underestimated teams' willingness to overpay for convicted PED users. But with those players now under contract, and the cream of next season's CF free agent crop Rocco Baldelli and Jim Edmunds... well, Mr. Cashman should get a few calls.

Melky will turn 24 in August and be under team control for at least 4 more seasons. He has the arm to play right and the experience to play center.

Have a good year, Melk.

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And I'll bet
Gardner doesn't slide into first base ;)  snicker

by detroit yankee on Mar 1, 2008 1:59 PM EST reply actions  

Sigh....
Don't get me started on Melky.

by anaconda on Mar 1, 2008 2:49 PM EST up reply actions  

Why?
I don't get why people can't wait to trade Melky.

He's not Willie Mays, but he's easily the most complete outfielder the Yankees have for the foreseeable future.

Abreu will likely be gone after this season. Damon and Matsui will also probably be gone after the '09 season. The Yanks will need all the OF's they can get their hands on.

Unless Melky has a breakout season, the Yankees will get 50 cents on the dollar for him because he is more valuable to the Yanks than he would be to another team. Most teams have OF's on their roster who can catch AND throw.  The Yanks have one.

And if Melky does have a breakout season, there'd be even less reason to trade him.  

I admittedly have never seen Gardner play, so he might very well be a suitable replacement, but I really like what Melky brings to the table.

To be able to rebound the way he did after his gawd-awful first stint with the Yanks says a lot about him.  As does his game 2 dinger and laser beam to home plate this year against Cleveland.

I vote to keep the Melk man.

by matthaggs on Mar 1, 2008 6:16 PM EST reply actions  

The issue here is that.
this is Brett Gardner's career MILB line

.289 .381 /.374

this is someone else's MILB line

.319 /.394 /.369

these two are very comparable players, they have virtually the same sort of game / size / position and even both bat left handed. you might even argue that the other player is even better. because he's a much better contact hitter then Gardner (he has a 255/175 K/BB ratio in 390 game vs Gardner's 214/163 in only 290 game)  the problem is the other player is Joey Gathright, who owns a career 266.333/.314 line in the majors.  after a 4 year stint

The issue with pure speed no power guys is that they usually have an EXTREMELY difficult time repeating the same line in the majors. the most successful guy of this type is Juan Pierre should sum up a lot . Pierre's MILB line was arguablly just as good if not better than those two at .330/.373 .392  he never whiffs AT ALL (a ridiculas 74K vs 90 walk in 315 game) and was truely able to leg out just about everything he puts on the ground. and his translation to the major is 301.348/.374 , so you see he loses a good part of his average because major league defenders are much better and it's a lot more difficult to leg out infield hits, not to meantion pitchers with better control will just jam you with hard stuff and pop you up.

Gardner does walk the most amoung these 3 and he wins the power contest amoung the powerless too, but he also have the most obvious strikeout problem, something that seems more likely to inflate then improve in the majors due to his age and style (remember, Brett Gardner is actually OLDER then Melky Cabrera)

And if Gardner doesn't at least hit something like .270-.280 , he's walks (which will also likely deflate in the majors thx to pitchers simply having better command) will simply not make up enough of a OBP to offset the MASSIVE differnece in power.

I think he has a chance of being a useful player, but I seriously question the logic of taking him over Melky Cabrera. a younger player that has actually already reasoanblly established himself in the majors. something that's a lot more rare than some people seem to make it out to be.

I must say from a prospecting point of view taking Brett Gardner over Melky Cabrera is just pure stupidity, Cabrera's normal ceiling is probably a above average CF in the majors. (Think Coco Crisp in his two year before going to Boston) and given his age context might actually go beyond that. while Brett Gardner's celing is something similar to Juan Pierre (Who is dispite his reputation, a 4th OF at best who is given a everyday job to kill his team) with more walks hopefully offseting a significantly lower BA.

Austin Jackson is a different case, he has potentially better ceiling than Cabrera, but we must not get ahead of ourself here, he's a 20 year old that had half a good season in A+, looking at similar players (very toolsy CFs .. I'm basically looking at Granderson / Vernon Wells / Sizmore and Upton, Jackson probably falls closer to Wells then Upton) non of them were productive major league player until at least age 22 (Sizemore and Upton)  and only Sizemore (the most talented of the bunch) basically had no problem transitioning to the majors. (Wells first truely good fullseason in the majors was age 24, Granderson was 25) Jackson was described as a somewhat raw athelte when drafted (much like Curtis Granderson, both were bit time highschool hoop stars), and that hasn't completely changed yet. I think what we should expect from Jackson is that..

a. he'll probably take 2 more season to fully reach the majors

b. there's a very realistic chances that he'll struggle to some extend for a season or two when he first come up.

I don't think people realize how rare it is to have a 21/22 year old reasonablly hold it's own in the majors like Cabrera. you need to realize that if someone plays like a star at this age he's probably a hall of fame talent , if he does reasonablly well he's very likely an above average career player.

by RollingWave on Mar 2, 2008 5:35 AM EST reply actions  

Good points
Trading Melky is entirely dependent on the progress of the two guys below him on the depth charts. I'm not thinking of handing the CF job to Gardner for more than a season. I need to see that Jackson continues to play to his second half numbers and is on track for 2009. I think we lose trading leverage by playing it safe and waiting until the entire league knows we have a logjam in the outfield with Melky, Jackson, Damon, Matsui, and Tabata.

Melky showed us in the early months of last season that does not fair well as a part time player. I'm not sure Gardner would handle it better, but it'd be worth a look. I think Gardner's tool set is better suited for it.

We disagree on Melky's ceiling. I think Melky could be an average centerfielder. Coco Crisp is a great analogy because before Crisp went to Boston he was the best defensive left fielder in the game. That's what I think Melky can be (but Melk has the arm for right).

I guess the best case scenario could be for Jackson and Tabata to be ready mid-season 2009, then we'd let Matsui and Damon walk and have Melky/Jackson/Tabata in the outfield for opening day 2010.

"Have faith in the Yankees, my son. Think of the great DiMaggio."

by jscape2000 on Mar 2, 2008 11:06 AM EST up reply actions  

Well
This is the yankees, I don't see why they NEED that extra bit of trading worth in Cabrera and actually might go out and play a Brett Gardner in CF to capitalize on a minimal value gain.

If your going to trade Cabrera, he's value probalby isn't too high regardless (Because obviously... if he does well, your not going to trade him.) so this makes it even more pointless.

As for potential ceilings, it could go a lot of different directions. but I just like to remind again that typically a major leaguer establish himself around age 24-26, if a guy establish himself significantly sooner then that. then they usually have another level to go to, particularly the hitters. and it's never safe to draw conclusions on any 22 year old's ceiling limitations. regardless of (perceptions on) tools if they showed enough at the major league level already at this stage.

by RollingWave on Mar 2, 2008 2:09 PM EST up reply actions  

Point taken
We shall see soon enough. :D Yay baseball season!
"Have faith in the Yankees, my son. Think of the great DiMaggio."

by jscape2000 on Mar 2, 2008 3:57 PM EST up reply actions  

Big difference ...
Between the minors and majors. Everyone reacts differently. Melky has been pretty solid in my opinion--although I will be the first one to say he needs to take his game to the next level (if it has a next level). I suspect it does, and think that if he can keep his focus for 162 games he will have a breakout year.

Gardner? I'm psyched we have a guy like him the pipeline. Nothing drives players harder than to know someone is knocking on the door. But let's not coronate him as the heir-apparent--and use minor league statistics to do it. That's ridiculous.

As for the cream of the cf crop, the names mentioned were Baldelli and Edmunds. Edmunds is two years away from getting his AARP card, and Baldelli bares a striking resemblance to Glass Carl Pavano. The only two centerfielders I would consider would be BJ Upton (whom I coached in AAU) and another doesn't even play centerfield--Carl Crawford. Aside from those two, I'd rely on what we have coming up.

"Baseball is the background music of my life." -George Will

by Ronster22 on Mar 3, 2008 5:13 PM EST up reply actions  

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