756*

by jscape2000 on Aug 8, 2007 12:38 AM EDT Comment 35 comments

I just watched, and I can't pretend to be unmoved.

This is everything that tears at my soul about the current state of professional sports.

I love to see human beings doing superhuman things. Vlad hits a baseball off his shoelaces 400 feet. Phil Hughes makes a sphere dance like a marionette. Reyes goes from second to third in the time it take me to stand up and cheer.

But when these superhuman feets are bought, packaged, and produced in a lab, it does more than cheapen them. It robs the entire sport of it grace, its mystique.

Logic dictates that I must suspect everyone; given what we know, there is no player above suspision. But I want to believe that these supermen are real, that with a little different luck or a different skill set, I could be one of them.

I don't know how to continue loving this game. I don't want to stop loving it.

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Can't help but to feel sick about it

A-Rod's chase for the record can't come soon enough.

by anaconda on Aug 8, 2007 12:51 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

GO BARRY!!

Yes that is so awesome!! Finally Barry has done it!!! Barry Bonds is the greatest baseball player of all time until Arod comes on knocking.

by BillyBobisdrunk on Aug 8, 2007 12:53 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

What if

Bonds was on the Yankees this whole time?

by matthaggs on Aug 8, 2007 1:29 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

ICK

The Yankees are too big a team for Barry. Barry wants it to be about him and him alone. There's no Barry in team and no team in Barry. And Thank God no one here ever wanted him or visa versa.

Hank Aaron is the home run king. Barry Bonds is the home roid king.

"The secret of managing is to keep the guys who hate you away from the guys who are undecided." -Casey Stengel

by bxgrl1 on Aug 8, 2007 2:55 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Uh-huh....

'cause that totally stopped Gary Sheffield from playing for the Yankees. Or Jason Giambi.

Pssst... Rickey Henderson used greenies. Gaylord Perry threw a spitball. Babe Ruth was an alcoholic who treated women badly. And Ty Cobb was a million times nastier, meaner, and all around a tremendously worse person than Barry Bonds ever dreamed of being.

by NBarnes on Aug 8, 2007 6:27 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yes

my feeling is though, if you actually read the stuff the reporters for the SF Chronicle came up with in their book, that Bonds is a special case. He's the cheatingest cheater, the most calculating, and he's also a slime of human being.

Everyone uses this same line "so and so cheated, they're all cheaters". It's not a completely invalid point. However there are degrees of severity and intent, just like in our legal system which does show that some are worse than others.

If you believe that every burglar in jail is just as bad as a triple murderer. Then that is consistent with the idea that all the players who cheated are equally culpable and therefore the cheating by Bonds is relatively meaningless. It's OK to weigh the actual evidence such as it is or was in each case and decide, this player is worse than that one, that guy is the worst of them all.

In my opinion, when you do that, Bonds is the worst. Both because of what he did, and stakes involved are the most precious records in baseball. This is a link to the excerpt that ran in SI a year or so back. Decide for yourself.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/magazine/03/06/growth0313/

by Greenfuzz on Aug 8, 2007 12:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

bittersweet

fact is, bonds never breaks this record without performance-enhancing drugs. he hit his 400th homerun in 1998. he hit nearly 1/3 of his career homeruns AFTER his 37th birthday. but i applauded the moment because it still was baseball (and american) history.

what pains me the most about it is that bonds, unlike mcgwire and sosa, was an all-time great before steroids. i feel numb about 756 right now. it'll be interesting to see how the record is regarded five years from now.

by Clutch like Leyritz on Aug 8, 2007 6:42 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Nauseating

I can't believe that scumbag sits atop the record books. Add on the fact that Hank Aaron turned into a huge pussy over the past couple of days and I couldn't feel worse about this whole debacle.

Fear the Evil Empire

by pfistyunc on Aug 8, 2007 7:35 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

it amazes me

everyone criticizes him for three-four years and now its fuckin hands across america for bonds.

its sad that aaron succumbed to the pressure. i think his non-involvement was the biggest statement of all, but now that's out the window.

by Clutch like Leyritz on Aug 8, 2007 8:02 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Hands across America for Bonds?

Read this site, go reat all the sport sites, newspapers, etc. They have the * everywhere.

Pride, Power, Cocktease

by ReLaunch on Aug 8, 2007 8:50 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

not on ESPN...

not that im surprised.

by Clutch like Leyritz on Aug 8, 2007 8:52 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Nah, they

have the * pretty much everywhere also. They also have Anti Bonds Pedro Gomez following him around everywhere.

Pride, Power, Cocktease

by ReLaunch on Aug 8, 2007 9:17 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

30 some odd years ago...

I remember hearing the same type of stuff about Aaron hitting number 715.

The baseball "purists" were talking about everything from the balls, the bats, but more importantly, they were disparaging Aaron because he was black and going after Ruth's record, who was, of course, white.

Looking back at it, that's racist, juvenile, etc.

In 5-10 years, we'll look back and decide that it doesn't really matter if he was juiced or not, but that he accomplished a really amazing thing. 756 HRs is a major deal, steroids or not.

I wish this "*" wasn't there. I wish that the steroids thing was BS. I wish I could hit 756 HRs.

by GrandEd on Aug 8, 2007 8:28 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

couldn't disagree more

it was always matter if bonds was juiced. if anything, in 5-10 years we'll look back and realize how stupid alot of us were for believing that this was an "amazing thing." think about how you felt in the summer of '98 during the mcgwire/sosa chase and then think about how you felt 5 years after that.

you still think mcgwire hitting 70 was an "amazing deal, steriods or not"?

by Clutch like Leyritz on Aug 8, 2007 8:51 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I agree

Pride, Power, Cocktease

by ReLaunch on Aug 8, 2007 9:16 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

you're so right

by Greenfuzz on Aug 8, 2007 12:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Completely different

Racism (not the crap that cbeck retardedly defines as racism, but real honest to God racism) is completely different than hating the guy because he is a roided up fraud. The people who griped about Aaron were racist idiots, but the people who hate Bonds have a legitimate beef: he is an arrogant, lying, dickhead who used chemistry to break Hank's record.

Fear the Evil Empire

by pfistyunc on Aug 8, 2007 9:24 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

And, of yeah.

Remember the asterisk after Maris' record?

by GrandEd on Aug 8, 2007 8:28 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Understandable, they're human

We love sports, and this game in specific because of the feats of humans. But this game is hard, very hard on humans.

Consider the drama around the Yankees. The arrival of Hughes and Joba has meant the demotion of Karstens and Igawa. These young men have spent their lives and dreams striving to become big leaguers. Maybe their dream was to be Yankees.

They are bitterly disappointed and go down to double their efforts to get back. The DFA for Myers may be the end of his dream. Cairo will probably never be back to the Yanks. (Although Soto came back in circumstances not completely different.)

When people are under terrible pressure some rise and shine, others crumble and cheat.

I am cynical enough to shrug off the cheaters and love the shiners.

I know we can suspect everyone, sometimes I do. But in my heart I know it is not true. I came into contact with the story recently of a young man who gave up a football scholarship to Kent State. They wouldn't let him play if he didn't juice. He moved down to D3. His parents pay tuition. He's playing clean.

Giambi has repented and is trying to play clean. He is trying to br honest about it.

Yeah for the players who never strayed. Yeah for the ones who tried in their imperfect way to be honest.

Let's catch Boston!

Baseball is 90% mental. The other half is physical(Yogi)

by Cbeck3 on Aug 8, 2007 8:53 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Its life.

Its great to hear about someone's dreams and I hope they make it, but at the end of the day it really doesn't matter.
My dream was to play CF, it didn't happen. These players get paid alot of money to play a game so sorry if I'm not touched if there dream doesn't get to come true.
They played more innings than any of us ever have or probably will.

Pride, Power, Cocktease

by ReLaunch on Aug 8, 2007 9:16 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Seriously

When did the Lifetime Channel start broadcasting baseball games? Pass the Kleenex....

Fear the Evil Empire

by pfistyunc on Aug 8, 2007 9:45 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I know

that there's been a lot of boos and stories and rumors (some true some not) about A-rod. But when he was hitting those homeruns almost everyday in april, I had a friend (mets fan) who said, "Make him pee in a cup." I glared at her and she replied, "I know it won't show anything, but maybe it'll prove to Barry Bonds that you don't NEED 'roids."

I believe Barry Bonds, without steriods, still would have chased many homerun records, don't think he'd get 756, but he'd be up there. Which makes it all the more sad. I would have more respect for Barry Bonds if he left that game holding the number 2 or 3 spot in homerunes, even number 23, but not this.

And as for Hank Aaron's message, I think he did the right thing. Because quite frankly, in ten years,if Hank hadn't said anything and if A-rod does or doesn't break the record, people will say (kids especially), "Remember when barry Bonds hit that 756 homerune! and that old guy who had the record before him didn't even congratulate him..what an asshole!"
Cause seriously, it'll be kids watching a-rod chase the record, they probably won't know that Barry came from the 'roids era. Hank Aaron, did a classy thing, and no one now or in the future can ever desacrate his memory or achievements by calling him rude.

"How can a you hit and think at the same time?" - Yogi Berra

by b4Gabs on Aug 8, 2007 9:27 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

beyond Bonds

If you vilify Bonds you have to go after all the other great players and teams that used PEDs. How do you feel about the 93 Phillies? How about MVP's like Camniniti, JuanGon, Sosa?

What about other medical/scientific technologies that enhance players?

If you think Bonds new record is empty than you have to think so much of what has happened in all of sports is meaningless too.

Obsessing on the imperfections of Bonds seems silly to me.

Let's get back to the real important baseball stuff.

by collink on Aug 8, 2007 12:31 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

that just isn't true

You can make judgments on a case by case basis by looking at the facts and deciding for yourself how severe the infraction is. Some things are not as bad as others and it's OK to put things in perspective and say one thing is worse than another. We do this all the time in life, there's no reason it can't apply to the situation in baseball too.

It's when we are too lazy or disinterested to look at the specifics of each case that we say things like "oh they all cheated, it doesn't matter".

Some people cheated specifically because they saw Bonds and others succeed by cheating. He became a leader in cheating, when he saw McGwire cheating and break the home run record, he decided to ramp up his cheating so he could break it. Giambi in particular when he juiced, asked to be put on the stuff Bonds was using.

Do you think it's worse to be the example others follow when they cheat? Is it worse to cheat to break the big records in baseball? Given the examples of Bonds, and some crappy pitcher taking roids to try to keep his job in the big leagues, I'd say Bonds is worse because what's at stake is more precious and his motivation is more venal.

by Greenfuzz on Aug 8, 2007 12:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Inconsistent or hypocritical

All I'm saying is that if you think Bonds record is a fake then you have to say a lot of MLB was a fake. I'm not relieving Bonds of responsibility, at best he went along with a crooked system. But he didn't create the crooked system.

If you want to attack Bonds you better attack the Oakland A's championships in the 90's. You need to acknowledge that a good 7 other players who won MVPs in the 90's also did what Barry did.

Barry is not some isolated problem, he's just the most famous example of a problem.

Fine say what he did was BS, but don't pretend that the rest of the game wasn't BS as well.

Cheating is cheating, whether it's to win one game or to break a record.

It just doesn't bother me that much because I'm cynical I guess.

by collink on Aug 8, 2007 1:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Agreed

I just felt ambivilance as i saw it last night. I don't think we need to bust out the "*", but I think that any one that has watched MLB over the past ten years or so is going have their own opinions of what the numbers mean. 756 is a huge feat, but i don't really put a whole hell of a lot of signficance to it as it is attached to barry. but hopefully we can just play ball now and stop getting espn "chasing history" pop ups, or live break-ins every time barry bonds passes gas.

Well, baseball was my whole life. Nothing's ever been as fun as baseball. -Mickey Mantle

by NumberSeven on Aug 8, 2007 2:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I don't think anyone is doing that

but many people do find those other players tainted as well. Palmiero is one of them, I don't think he'll get in the HOF either. No one is attacking just Bonds, and it's not just his fame it's the level of his deeds as well.

by Greenfuzz on Aug 8, 2007 7:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

What?

He did roids just like the others. Why should he be punished more than the other? He is in the same boat as Mac, Sosa, etc.

Pride, Power, Cocktease

by ReLaunch on Aug 8, 2007 9:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Not more

in the baseball sense. There's nothing they can do but not put him in the HOF. But I don't think all the legal remedies have been exhausted in his case yet.

Also I just hope people have that asterisk in their minds for him, Mac et al.

by Greenfuzz on Aug 9, 2007 1:34 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Bonds will be

in the HOF and deserves to be in the HOF. He was a HOF player before he did steroids unlike Mac and Sosa.

Pride, Power, Cocktease

by ReLaunch on Aug 9, 2007 6:54 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

another good thing

is that Bonds, etc. will highlight the deeds of players that we know didn't use roids. I mean look at Jeter and Mo, two great players in MLB that look the least like roids users. They're skinny as pencils.

Same goes for guys like Glavine, Maddox, Hunter, Soriano, etc.

If you're so against roid abuse then you got to appreciate the guys that didn't do them even more.

by collink on Aug 8, 2007 1:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

sosa

is the worst of all.

the one thing i will say about bonds is this:
is bonds a hall of famer without steroids? absolutely. first-ballot, no doubter.

is sosa a hall of fmaer without steroids?
absolutely not.

by Clutch like Leyritz on Aug 8, 2007 4:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Sosa is a girl

he shows up to the congressional hearing with an interpreter, like the fool doesnt know english! I have seen plenty of interviews and pepsi commercials to know that he speaks English

God is a Yankee fan

by DarksideJU08 on Aug 9, 2007 9:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I dont think

that Selig(like the girl that he is)will let Bonds be in the Hall. Selig one day condemns Bonds the next shows up at the game in San Diego. He is a flip flop...but I could be wrong...he might flip his opinion once more....lets just sit back and watch.

God is a Yankee fan

by DarksideJU08 on Aug 9, 2007 9:39 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs