I Don't Understand This One

by jscape2000 on Jul 31, 2007 1:28 AM EDT Comment 62 comments

Update [2007-7-31 12:20:6 by jscape2000]:

This looks like it's going to happen.

Amid rumors that Gagne might stay put I have mixed feelings about this deal.

On the one hand, I know that there are arms in the minors capable of being better than Proctor has been (Britton, Ramirez, Ohlendorf, Joba).

On the other hand, Joe Torre is the manager and might not use Britton because he's too fat, Edwar because he's too skinny, Russ because he's from Princeton, and Joba because it's only his first year of pro ball.

Here's to hoping.

The boys over at River Ave Blues pointed me to this by Buster Onley:

The Dodgers and Yankees continue to discuss a possible swap of pitcher Scott Proctor for infielder Wilson Betemit, a deal that would fill holes for both teams. Betemit, who just turned 27, could be used at first base by the Yankees, and give them some positional alternatives should Alex Rodriguez opt-out at the end of the season. Now Betemit is showing a good eye this year (.359 OBP) and a little pop (.474), but those are above his career averages and he's hitting only .231 in 158 ABs. I know we at P.A. are a more enlightened crew, but a batting average that low will bring out the boo birds fast. While he would be a great utility infielder, he shouldn't even be considered as a replacement for Arod (which he won't need to be, knock on wood).

But if Scott Linebrink netted the Padres 3 decent arms, is this really the best that Scott Proctor could fetch?

[editor's note, by jscape2000] What I mean to point out is that while Linebrink has had a better year, Linebrink and Proctor are the same age, but Linebrink is a Free Agent at the end of the season, while Proctor would be under team control until the end of the 2009 season. It's just a rumor at this point, and with a little over 14 hours until the deadline, I'm hoping it's a false one.

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Hahah,

he would be a great replacement for Arod. Unless they release Cairo (his heart and toughness will not allow that to happen), this deal makes no sense.

Pride, Power, Cocktease

by ReLaunch on Jul 31, 2007 7:03 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

If it means the end of Cairomack

it may be worth it! I guess it makes sense to trade Proctor before the "Torre effect" takes place, but I was hoping it would be this winter.

Fear the Evil Empire

by pfistyunc on Jul 31, 2007 7:57 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Agreed

I know it is a tough market and I know that Cash wants to hold onto prospects but this deal would make absolutely no sense. It's like making a deal just for the sake of saying you made a deal before the deadline.

by HarlemUSA on Jul 31, 2007 8:26 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

PASS

Betemit? for Proctor? No. for Farnsworth??? Give him Jeter's locker if he wants.

by BobbyNYC on Jul 31, 2007 9:16 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Huh??

Am I missing something? Can Betemit throw a nasty slider, or tailing fastball for strikes?
Our problem is bullpen. Trading away perhaps the only semi-dependable 7-8 inning guy for a marginal plug-in at various infield/outfield slots is insane.

So again, I ask, am I missing something, here?

"Baseball is the background music of my life." -George Will

by Ronster22 on Jul 31, 2007 9:54 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Betemti needs TJ surgery?

That is the only way to explain this trade.

Fear the Evil Empire

by pfistyunc on Jul 31, 2007 9:56 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Ahh, yes ...

Of course ... I should have known.

"Baseball is the background music of my life." -George Will

by Ronster22 on Jul 31, 2007 10:14 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Well

Betemit doesn't make much sense, but it's been a very long time since Proctor entered a game and I said "Whew".

He was ok for a few games after he burned his uniform, but he's gone from dependable to decent to borderline crappy. He's been serving up dingers left and right lately.

by matthaggs on Jul 31, 2007 10:05 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

No sense at all

This deal does not make any sense as you do not give away a pitcher who throws 95~97 mph for an utility guy like Betemit. If it is Betemit for Farnsworth, then it makes some sense. If this deal is made, B. Cash needs to go.

by yankeesintexas on Jul 31, 2007 10:13 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

This is not the tipping point

Trust me, this trade would not be the reason that Cashman should be fired. That ship sailed a long, long time ago.

Fear the Evil Empire

by pfistyunc on Jul 31, 2007 10:49 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Goddammit you guys

You can't have it both ways. You want a solid bench, but don't want to trade anything to get one.

I've said it before: no decent utility infielder will sign with the Yanks because they'll never play. It took injuries at first base to finally get Cairo playing time.

So in order to get one, you have to trade for one. And GMs don't just give them away.

I would totally support this trade if it meant 1) Cairo is done and 2) the Yanks end up with Gagne. Just think about the improved bench (after Giambi comes back, they'll have Melky, Shelley, Betemit, and Molina).

The bullpen would then be better, with a now-reliable three-headed-monster that Joe covets so much: Viz-Gagne-Mo. Throw Joba and Karstens in there, and you have the makings of something.

River Ave. Blues
Yanks and prospects

by PinstripePowerhouse on Jul 31, 2007 10:37 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Makes sense to me

They have plenty of guys who could do Proctor's job.

by matthaggs on Jul 31, 2007 11:00 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

True

Lots of different guys throw BP.

by SP on Jul 31, 2007 11:04 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Agreed

Betemit still has upside and hasn't gotten a chance in LA (got off to an awful start and then got benched . . . has done well since). If we're counting on Proctor, after all the abuse Torre has visited upon him, then we have a big problem. A bullpen of Rivera, Chamberlain, and another pickup (hopefully Gagne) would make Proctor entirely supeflouous.

by stusviews on Jul 31, 2007 11:29 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I agree

but I want Gagne on the team before Proctor gets sent packing. I'm scared of what Joe might do to Joba and Viz's arms if Proctor is gone without a replacement.

"Have faith in the Yankees, my son. Think of the great DiMaggio."

by jscape2000 on Jul 31, 2007 12:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Britton and Karstens

could both replace Proctor

by matthaggs on Jul 31, 2007 12:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Good point

I just can't imagine Joe would use Britton now after leaving him in the minors all season.
Looks like this is a done deal:
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2955753

"Have faith in the Yankees, my son. Think of the great DiMaggio."

by jscape2000 on Jul 31, 2007 12:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

You wanna post this thread

since you saw it first?

by anaconda on Jul 31, 2007 12:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Never mind....

looks like you already did.

by anaconda on Jul 31, 2007 12:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I did the update

I put space between my paragraphs, but it didn't seem to translate in the preview...

"Have faith in the Yankees, my son. Think of the great DiMaggio."

by jscape2000 on Jul 31, 2007 12:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Check your email....

by anaconda on Jul 31, 2007 12:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Is Betimaeat

better than Wiggy? I don;t thknk so...I guess Cashman does..I'd rather have Ty than will
And they have to get a pitcher....

by John Amato on Jul 31, 2007 3:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Agreed in principle

Welcome, Wilson. Please, let the door hit Cairo's ass on the way out.

River Ave. Blues
Yanks and prospects

by PinstripePowerhouse on Jul 31, 2007 12:16 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Not yet

Basak is on the roster right now isn't he?

by matthaggs on Jul 31, 2007 12:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yes

I'm speaking of Giambi's return, really.

River Ave. Blues
Yanks and prospects

by PinstripePowerhouse on Jul 31, 2007 12:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Lohud

says Bruney will do down and Edwar will come up soon.

And that it doesn't look good for Gagne.

by matthaggs on Jul 31, 2007 1:05 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Congrats on getting Betemit

as a Dodger fan I am upset about this deal. Proctor is a below average middle reliever and Betemit has the Dodgers 4th highest OPS. He does strike out alot and has a low batting average but he more than makes up for it with his power. The Dodgers should have gotten more for Betemit and should've solved their pitching problem in house with top prospect Jonathon Meloan who has pitched lights out at AA and AAA in the pen. Yuck!
vr, Xei

Bleeding blue.

by Xeifrank on Jul 31, 2007 1:14 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I don't get it

but whatever. I would much rather lose Farnsworth than Proctor. What happened to Gagne?

by Greenfuzz on Jul 31, 2007 1:16 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

looks like

the red sox are front runner to getting gagne, reports say that they just got jermaine dye

"Slump? I aint in no slump... I just aint hitting" -Yogi

by yanks are gonna win on Jul 31, 2007 1:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Any links for that?

"Have faith in the Yankees, my son. Think of the great DiMaggio."

by jscape2000 on Jul 31, 2007 1:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

i don't know

I'm sports center trade deadline special

"Slump? I aint in no slump... I just aint hitting" -Yogi

by yanks are gonna win on Jul 31, 2007 1:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

im watching it on tv*

"Slump? I aint in no slump... I just aint hitting" -Yogi

by yanks are gonna win on Jul 31, 2007 1:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Gotcha

For some reason I'm not getting that in the Syracuse area. I've got regular Sportscenter on ESPN (I really couldn't care less about Kevin Garnett) and ESPNews on ESPN2.

"Have faith in the Yankees, my son. Think of the great DiMaggio."

by jscape2000 on Jul 31, 2007 1:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'm watching BBTN as well...

Buster just said that the Gagne sweepstakes is down to three teams: Boston, Brewers, and staying in Texas.

He said nothing about Dye.

by anaconda on Jul 31, 2007 1:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Makes no sense to me

With Dye and Drew, that is a hell of an expensive platoon.

Fear the Evil Empire

by pfistyunc on Jul 31, 2007 1:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Unless

they bench/trade Coco and play Drew in center.
I'd be excited to see Dye's .295 OBP in the Red Sox lineup.

"Have faith in the Yankees, my son. Think of the great DiMaggio."

by jscape2000 on Jul 31, 2007 1:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I suppose

but if Drew can't stay healthy in right, I wonder what playing center will do to him.

Fear the Evil Empire

by pfistyunc on Jul 31, 2007 2:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

is Betemit gonna be starting over Andy Phillips?

"Slump? I aint in no slump... I just aint hitting" -Yogi

by yanks are gonna win on Jul 31, 2007 2:03 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Dumb Deal

Betemit is a career .263 hitter. Does anyone really think he will replace A-Rod once A-Rod opts out of the current deal? I don't think Betemit is any better than Andy Philips. With Giambi coming back, where are they gonna put Betemit anyway. This is a rather stupid deal to give way Proctor.

by yankeesintexas on Jul 31, 2007 2:20 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Eh

This is sort of a nothing trade. They didn't give up much and they didn't get much. Betemit is actually a legitimate utility player, unlike that piece of shit Cairomack. If someone gets hurt or needs a day off, it will be nice to know the guy coming off the bench isn't one of the worst hitters of the past decade.

Fear the Evil Empire

by pfistyunc on Jul 31, 2007 2:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Betemit is good

look past batting average to a more progressive and meaningful stat like OPS. Betemit had the 4th highest OPS on the Dodgers and he mashes right handed pitching. He got off to slow start this year but has been OPSing well 1.100 over the past month. He is only 26 years old, is cheap and is entering his 3 most productive years. He can play any infield position.
vr, Xei

Bleeding blue.

by Xeifrank on Jul 31, 2007 2:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Thanks for the advice kid

I am not saying that Wilson is bad, just not that good. This talk about him being a replacement for A-Rod is just retarded.

Fear the Evil Empire

by pfistyunc on Jul 31, 2007 2:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Huh???

This move makes no sense unless the Yankees have a line on Gagne to take Proctor's spot. I'm reading the Sux are reeling him in and if that's the case, Betemit better be one helluva middle relief specialist.

Way to go Cash ... you dumbass.

"Baseball is the background music of my life." -George Will

by Ronster22 on Jul 31, 2007 2:40 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Which Proctor were you watching?

When was the last time you watched a Yankee game and said, "Why isn't Proctor in the game right now?"

It's more like, "Why is Proctor coming in again?" or "Why is Proctor STILL in? GET HIM OUT!"

Granted some of this is not Proctor's fault, but he's about one exit away from totally sucking. Right now he kind of sucks.

by matthaggs on Jul 31, 2007 2:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Let's not forget

That his arm should fall off any day now, thanks to the Joe Torre Bullpen Management System.

Fear the Evil Empire

by pfistyunc on Jul 31, 2007 2:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

All the more reason

to dump him.

by matthaggs on Jul 31, 2007 3:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Agreed ...

but who the hell is taking his place, Giambi, Cairo--the super-sub, Shelley Duncan, Wilson Betemit?

Or are we feeling REALLY lucky and giving the ball and a slim lead to Farnsworth?

Sorry, in my opinion and despite the obvious strain of being overworked, Proctor is the best choice. So now what, we throw Joba into the Torre Bullpen Management System (TBMS), and let that bastard overwork and ultimately destroy him like he's done to Sturtze, Gordon, Proctor?

"Baseball is the background music of my life." -George Will

by Ronster22 on Jul 31, 2007 3:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

We aren't doing that now

It's not like Proctor was getting the ball in the 8th before this trade. That was going to Viz and probably Joba pretty shortly.

As for the JTBMS, I am keeping my fingers crossed that Torre doesn't blow out his arm over the next two months.

Fear the Evil Empire

by pfistyunc on Jul 31, 2007 3:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I doubt

that Joba even gets used often. With Proctor gone Farnsy and Viz's arms are about to fall off

"Slump? I aint in no slump... I just aint hitting" -Yogi

by yanks are gonna win on Jul 31, 2007 3:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

So ...

With Viz and Farnzie we are pinning our hopes?
Which way to the life-rafts because this Yankee Clipper is going down fast.

"Baseball is the background music of my life." -George Will

by Ronster22 on Jul 31, 2007 3:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Farnsy?!

Have you watched any Yankee games this year? Torre looks like he is getting a root canal with no novacaine any time he is forced to use him. You and I are about as likely to get overused by Torre as Farnsy is

Fear the Evil Empire

by pfistyunc on Jul 31, 2007 3:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

So its...

Viz, Bruney, Joba ...
Hmmm, Viz will fade faster than a day lilly. Bruney blows in critical situations when he has no wiggle room, and Joba ... well, you know my thoughts on using him at all.

"Baseball is the background music of my life." -George Will

by Ronster22 on Jul 31, 2007 3:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Of course he will

You can't change a Tigers stripes to spots. Torre is going to freaking abuse Joba because that's is all he has ever done since taking over the team. It's not in his DNA.

That's another reason why I'm so opposed to using a stud starter as a middle reliever. It's too taxing on his arm and I believe will stunt his development if not impact his health.

This is a huge mistake.

"Baseball is the background music of my life." -George Will

by Ronster22 on Jul 31, 2007 3:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs