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Around SBN: 2012 Africa Cup Of Nations Final

How bad was ESPN last night?

It was discussed on the game thread last night as we live blogged the Yankee win in the Bronx. I happen to like Morgan and Miller on Sunday's even though a lot of people don't. They made so many factual errors last night that it was really surprising for ESPN's A-team.

They didn't even know Jeter's birthday when they did their big Pete Rose/Derek Jeter hit counter segment...Anyway, I often criticize Michael Kay and the YES crew, but that's more about delivery. They never have their facts and statistics that far off the planet.

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Miller and Morgan
Joe Morgan is awful.  He makes a gaffe, then spends the next five minutes reiterating how much smarter he is than eveyrbody else because he was an allstar second baseman, whichonly serrves to remind you how wrong he was in the first place, over and over again.  

Miller defers to him because he was a Hall of Famer as a player.  But as a broadcaster, Morgan is bush league. He never has anything to add to the game other than his own mistakes and egotism.

by Nettles Fan on Jun 18, 2007 5:25 PM EDT reply actions  

Keep Joe, Miller must go
Miller is the one I can't stand. He's repetitive, boring and gives the impression he resents the Yankees. I don't pay a whole lot of attention to the commentators until I hear something that irks me -- and it's ALWAYS Miller with the dumb remark, the dig that he repeats incessantly. While I'm not saying Joe Morgan is my favorite, compared to Miller, he's more tolerable -- and that's a strong comment on my part since I'm far from an ESPN fan. I'm told Joe Morgan may not have all his facts straight, but he oftentimes dignifies Miller's nonsensical comments. Plus, Joe keeps me awake more than Miller does, which may not be saying much for Joe, but it says a lot about Miller's ho-hum excitement level.

by Lucy on Jun 18, 2007 9:03 PM EDT reply actions  

Completely
disagree.  Every point you made, I think the exact opposite.  Miller maybe dumb, but at least he makes things interesting.  Morgan is wrong alot but will never admit it.
Pride, Power, Wildcard?

by ReLaunch on Jun 18, 2007 9:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

I never said...
I never said Miller was dumb and I never said Morgan was always right. I personally find Miller to be slow, repetitive, and resentful towards the Yankees. Miller puts ME to sleep and that's not open to debate, it's just a fact for me. The thing I find most deceiving about Miller is that he will insult a team or player in the most pleasant and friendliest voice that you don't even realize it's an insult. His preference for specific teams is no real secret.

by Lucy on Jun 18, 2007 9:22 PM EDT reply actions  

I never said Morgan was always right.
From the game thread:

"Thank God Joe Morgan is there is set the record straight when it comes to the facts."

You never said it outright, but you sure gave us the impression.

by docgonzo on Jun 18, 2007 9:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

Are you SURE
that you don't have it backwards?
River Ave. Blues
Yanks and prospects

by PinstripePowerhouse on Jun 18, 2007 9:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

Shame ESPN?
Is it possible to shame ESPN?  If putting the Yankees on a televised mock trial on Yankees Opening Day 2004 isn't shameful, I don't know what is.  I'm glad the trial was adjudicated in the Yankees' favor because that only heaped more shame upon ESPN (something they wouldn't even realize).

by Lucy on Jun 19, 2007 9:29 AM EDT up reply actions  

I think the Barry Bonds show
should have shamed them, but they clearly have no shame.

by Greenfuzz on Jun 19, 2007 1:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

Clarification...
Clarification: Miller isn't dumb, but he makes dumb comments every so often in an attempt to insult a particular player or team. If he just reported the facts, this wouldn't be an issue.

by Lucy on Jun 18, 2007 9:32 PM EDT reply actions  

Hit the reply to this button
when replying to a post.
Pride, Power, Wildcard?

by ReLaunch on Jun 18, 2007 9:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

On Hitting the reply button
Okay, I got it. Sorry, I'm not used to this setup quite yet.

by Lucy on Jun 18, 2007 9:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

no problem,
this way just helps to know which comment you are talking about.
Pride, Power, Wildcard?

by ReLaunch on Jun 18, 2007 9:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

Once again...
Docgonzo, I clarified in another post that Joe Morgan sets the record straight when Miller makes absurd comments. He purposely dignifies Miller's outrageous comments. As far as statistics, I don't pay that close attention to their comments (they may both be right or wrong). However, every so often when I hear something that annoys me, it's always Miller, not Morgan, making the comment -- and Morgan sets that particular "record" straight, justifying and dignifying Miller's resentful remarks.

by Lucy on Jun 18, 2007 9:37 PM EDT reply actions  

So let me get this straight
If Miller makes a resentful remark - which he can sometimes - and Morgan justifies and dignifies said remark, why wouldn't Morgan also be worthy of resentment?  Setting the record straight (i.e. refuting) is different that justifying a remark.  I'm just confused, that's all.  Help me out.

by docgonzo on Jun 18, 2007 10:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

Mincing words?
I think we are mincing words here.  Morgan doesn't appear to become catty by clearly refuting what Miller says, but he responds in a way that brings the comment to a higher level, thus dignifying it but in a subtle manner.  They never come across as adversaries, but it appears Morgan makes sense of (justifies, so to speak) Miller's statements by stating facts immediately following, and I find this always comes after I become annoyed with Miller, directing my attention to what they're saying.  This doesn't happen all night long, but several times during every broadcast.

I don't like ESPN's broadcasts, never did, and as I said before, I don't listen to everything either one of them say.  I certainly don't check any of the stats they present.  But my ears perk up when I hear something insulting or ridiculous regarding the Yankees.  Lo and behold, it always comes out of Miller's mouth and Joe Morgan always has something worthwhile and credible to say following that.  Maybe "justify" and "dignify" aren't the best words to describe the situation from a practical standpoint, but "refute" sounds too adversarial.  I hope what I'm saying is clear.  Next time, I'll give more specific examples (if I feel it's even worth my time).

by Lucy on Jun 19, 2007 9:23 AM EDT up reply actions  

We are repulsed by different things.
MG, I think we are repulsed by different things when we hear the broadcast.  Miller comes across as insulting and petty and that's what irks me.  If Morgan's facts aren't straight, I don't pay too much attention because it's an ESPN broadcast.  I have this aversion to ESPN to begin with.  

Let me give you an example of what I find repulsive about Miller.  There was a conversation about Jeter potentially surpassing Rose's record, and Miller said about four times "only if Jeter remains healthy."  He just kept repeating this.  While this comment may not seem like a big deal on its face, I found it to be resentful.  After all, it's a given fact, it goes without saying, that baseball players need to stay healthy to continue playing and achieve success.  But then to repeat it several times was uncalled for and, consequently, petty and disgraceful.  We should assume good health for all our players.  Was there any reason for Miller to assume Jeter would not remain healthy?  That was just one example of how Miller can become cheap and irksome.

Evidently different things bother us about ESPN broadcasters, but I'd rather hear a commentator state a wrong fact than suggest ill-health may befall one of our greatest players.  When Miller makes petty comments such as this, Morgan almost always states something positive (appearing to take the sting out of Miller's absurd remarks).  That's why I like Morgan and don't like Miller.

by Lucy on Jun 19, 2007 9:50 AM EDT up reply actions  

I think you
have the 2 announcers confused.  Miller is the fat guy and Morgan is the ex baseball player.
Pride, Power, Wildcard?

by ReLaunch on Jun 19, 2007 9:53 AM EDT up reply actions  

You don't like Morgan
What you just described was what Morgan said.
River Ave. Blues
Yanks and prospects

by PinstripePowerhouse on Jun 19, 2007 10:26 AM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah, sounds like you've
got 'em mixed up.  If that's the case, then your argument makes much more sense.  Miller can be dopey at times, but he's certainly no irritant like Morgan.

by docgonzo on Jun 19, 2007 10:43 AM EDT up reply actions  

Ooopsies...
My bad!!!  Sorry for the confusion.  I thank all of you for patiently and politely setting the record straight.  Now I'll make better use of my voodoo doll (just joking).

by Lucy on Jun 19, 2007 11:01 AM EDT up reply actions  

Yay!
Now we can all make fun of Joe Morgan in harmony.
River Ave. Blues
Yanks and prospects

by PinstripePowerhouse on Jun 19, 2007 11:03 AM EDT up reply actions  

Although...
...I do feel bad about cursing Miller Sunday night.  I promise to make amends next time around and send him some cyberlove.

by Lucy on Jun 19, 2007 11:04 AM EDT up reply actions  

BTW
Boston lost to Atlanta.  We move up half a game without even trying!

by docgonzo on Jun 18, 2007 10:26 PM EDT reply actions  

Bonds...
SportsCenter was saying that Bonds wouldn't mind being traded.  How many days until the Yankees are linked to the possibility of aquiring Bonds?

Anybody here have any interest in him as a DH?  

by AKJoe on Jun 18, 2007 11:19 PM EDT reply actions  

nope
Pride, Power, Wildcard?

by ReLaunch on Jun 18, 2007 11:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

ABSOLUTELY NOT
I don't want Barry Bonds to breathe anywhere near Yankee players in SF this weekend -- much less play for this team down the road.

by anaconda on Jun 19, 2007 12:28 AM EDT up reply actions  

I would seriously
have to reconsider my lifelong fanhood if we acquired Bonds.  He would never fit in NY and most of the fans here dislike him (if not stronger sentiment).
"The secret of managing is to keep the guys who hate you away from the guys who are undecided." -Casey Stengel

by bxgrl1 on Jun 19, 2007 5:53 AM EDT up reply actions  

under no circumstances
the last time this was brought up someone here said something like "hell no and god no" and I echo that.

by Greenfuzz on Jun 19, 2007 1:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

Flame War
You guys on this site hate Cairo. But you can't tell me he's as bad as you say after watching him last night.

by greenpoint on Jun 19, 2007 12:15 AM EDT reply actions  

My friend
Cairo has been on fire since he got the every day job at first.
He's gone .293/.302/.341.
That has brought his batting line to .267/.316/.360.
Cairo has put together an OBP over .310 once in the last 6 years.
His Value Over Replacement Player (VORP) is at -1.0.
His solid defense is nice.  It beats putting Josh "Butcher" Phelps in the field.  But I'd bet my cap that Damon could play 1B just as effectively and Phelps could put up a better offensive line as the DH.
"Have faith in the Yankees, my son. Think of the great DiMaggio."

by jscape2000 on Jun 19, 2007 1:18 AM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah
Thats not a bad idea for now. If Damon is willing give it a chance.  
I didn't know a captain could be as bad as Varitek

by yankeechaser on Jun 19, 2007 3:25 AM EDT up reply actions  

I'll admit
I was surprised by Cairo this weekend after reading his (mostly) negative press on here.  He's not the sharpest but he certainly wasn't the dung beetle that I had come to expect from the reviews on here.  

They are talking using Jorge at first when Nieves catches for Mussina and using Damon as well but Cairo is doing a decent job right now.  The fans at YS seem to like him well enough.

"The secret of managing is to keep the guys who hate you away from the guys who are undecided." -Casey Stengel

by bxgrl1 on Jun 19, 2007 5:55 AM EDT up reply actions  

They're talking about Jorge
at first because Torre wants to keep his bat in the lineup in a NL park.  He's played there before, so it should be okay for that one game were Nieves catches.

by docgonzo on Jun 19, 2007 10:11 AM EDT up reply actions  

No first base for posada
I think we could go without his bat one day a week.  If we keep using him everyday he is going to break down.  I read that that knee injury from last year is still nagging him, so i say let the man have a day off.
I didn't know a captain could be as bad as Varitek

by yankeechaser on Jun 19, 2007 10:52 AM EDT up reply actions  

Agree on no Posada to first
Thurman was moved to first, and it was horrible. In fact, I think his last game prior to his death was at first base.

Regardless, Posada isn't the answer at first. We need to target a young stud and sign him.

"Baseball is the background music of my life." -George Will

by Ronster22 on Jun 19, 2007 12:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

Cairo
is going to come down to earth, and I'm hoping we give Phelps a bit of a chance. But after this season let's get someone... and I don't want Helton, or some other fading star.
"Baseball is the background music of my life." -George Will

by Ronster22 on Jun 19, 2007 3:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

Phelps a goner?
I just heard that Phelps is down and Phillips is up.   I guess we'll find out if that's true or not soon enough.

by Lucy on Jun 19, 2007 7:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yep
Phelps has been designated for assignment, which means we have to offer him back to Baltimore for $25,000.

Dunno if they'd take him. They have the left-handed version of him in Jay Gibbons.

River Ave. Blues
Yanks and prospects

by PinstripePowerhouse on Jun 19, 2007 8:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

Didn't really get a chance
I'm not a huge Phelps guy, but he's young, and has some pop. If I'm Baltimore (and I'm glad I'm not) I'd take Phelps, and Girardi too.

Phelps doesn't have a choice, though. Girardi does. Taking that job in that organization would be insane. I guess we'll find out soon enough if Girardi chases the money.

"Baseball is the background music of my life." -George Will

by Ronster22 on Jun 20, 2007 9:29 AM EDT up reply actions  

I hope ...
I was talking to a guy in my office about the job. He asked me if there were any circumstances where I would take it. I honestly couldn't come up with one reason to take it.

I think Girardi is a quality guy with a great deal to offer a team. I wish the Yankees would have something significant for him.

"Baseball is the background music of my life." -George Will

by Ronster22 on Jun 20, 2007 9:39 AM EDT up reply actions  

The circumstance
is that Angelos has to be like the Steinbrenner of 06-07, and not the Steinbrenner of '86-87.  Which is impossible.
That man's meddling is the worst thing to ever happened to a baseball team.
"Have faith in the Yankees, my son. Think of the great DiMaggio."

by jscape2000 on Jun 20, 2007 10:29 AM EDT up reply actions  

I think Girardi will take the gig
Hiring McPhail puts more space between Angelos and the team.  

They have Bedard, Cabrera, and Ray - decent building blocks.

Markakis is a player.

And they have money to spend - lots of it.  They just have to spend it the right way, like they did in the late 90's.  

The tough part will be convincing established pitchers to come play in that band box.  

by matthaggs on Jun 20, 2007 10:43 AM EDT up reply actions  

Cabrera?
All I hear is "he's promising." Well, he still sucks this year, even with two years of Mazzone tutelage.

He sucks.

River Ave. Blues
Yanks and prospects

by PinstripePowerhouse on Jun 20, 2007 11:23 AM EDT up reply actions  

Okay
Cabrera may be a stretch, but he is occasionally impossible to get a hit off of (as the Yanks witnessed towards the end of last year).  

Always dangerous to not check stats here, but I think he is also a victim of Camden Yards, where you walk a guy or two and a pop fly turns into 3 runs.

But Bedard and Ray are good.

by matthaggs on Jun 20, 2007 11:42 AM EDT up reply actions  

Berdard
is the only good one.  Ray would be a good reliever, but he is at best an average closer.  Look at how many blown saves he has had the last 2 years.
Pride, Power, Wildcard?

by ReLaunch on Jun 20, 2007 11:51 AM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah, the
meddling was the worst thing to happen to the team.  Man, they should have won more than the 6 championships underneath him.

George is the best team owner in sports history, period.

Pride, Power, Wildcard?

by ReLaunch on Jun 20, 2007 11:36 AM EDT up reply actions  

I was refering to Angelos
and yes, the Yankees should have won more than 6 championships in the last 25 years.
I'm not knocking the man who signs the checks, but his meddling did hurt the team for a decade.  Only when he got suspended and Gene Michaels had a chance to rebuild the farm system did things get better.
"Have faith in the Yankees, my son. Think of the great DiMaggio."

by jscape2000 on Jun 20, 2007 12:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

okay, then
which owner over the same time span has won even half the amount of championships?  All of those owners that do not meddle?  Nope.
Pride, Power, Wildcard?

by ReLaunch on Jun 20, 2007 12:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

But the
cost has been more championships then any other organization over that time span.
Its hard I guess to balance that drive to win and step away.
Look at Mark Cuban, that guy acts like a jackass, is meddling in his team, but he wants to win more than anyone and will back it up.
Pride, Power, Wildcard?

by ReLaunch on Jun 20, 2007 1:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

What makes
you think that Damon would play better first than Cairo?  I actually think Cairo has done a pretty solid job on defense out there.  Damon has played 1 or 2 innings his whole career there.
Pride, Power, Wildcard?

by ReLaunch on Jun 19, 2007 6:45 AM EDT up reply actions  

It's obviously much easier
for Cairo to make the transition because the guy has been an career infielder.

I don't know if Damon will be able to handle it because the reaction time is light years different than playing CF and he doesn't have a load of experience digging balls out of the dirt.

I don't think Damon is going to be much better than Sheffield was last season.

by anaconda on Jun 19, 2007 9:21 AM EDT up reply actions  

I think Damon
is more athletic than Shef (though he did have the advantage of having been an infielder in the past).  And my impression of Damon's work ethic leads me to believe that he'd be willing to work on it until he was a serviciable 1B.  I'd worry more about his ability to catch the ball the most.
"Have faith in the Yankees, my son. Think of the great DiMaggio."

by jscape2000 on Jun 19, 2007 9:44 AM EDT up reply actions  

Seems to me
that we've been most effective with Cairo at first. He's a good infielder who can - as he has proven - hit the ball occasionally.  Most, if not all, teams have a crappy hitter in the ninth spot.  Why should we be any different?  And why mess with something that has thus far worked?

Putting Damon at first would be a disaster akin to the Sheffield experiment.  Jorge at first should only happen when Mussina pitches in a NL park.  Otherwise, keep Cairo while rotating Phelps every now and then until we trade for a permanent first baseman.

by docgonzo on Jun 19, 2007 10:16 AM EDT up reply actions  

DH
I've always wondered- is that allowed?  Do you have to use the DH for your pitcher, or if you have a really good hitting pitcher and a crappy hitting fielder, can you have the pitcher hit and the fielder not hit?

by SP on Jun 19, 2007 11:39 AM EDT up reply actions  

Billy Martin
let Rick Rhoden DH once.  But he wasn't pitching that particular day I don't think.  

The memory is fuzzy, but I he batted him 7th.  How embarrassing for the 8 & 9 hitters.

by matthaggs on Jun 19, 2007 12:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

Carlos Zambrano and the D-Train are
better hitters than Neives anyday...

by AKJoe on Jun 19, 2007 2:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

You better stop
or cbeck will start crying about you being too mean. He may pick up his toys and go home.
Fear the Evil Empire

by pfistyunc on Jun 19, 2007 2:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

Ventriloquism???
Leave it to Morgan to practice ventriloquism and making Miller look bad.  Shame on him.

Okay, everybody, let's shout in unison now:

Morgan sucks
Off with his head.

There, now I feel better!!!

by Lucy on Jun 19, 2007 11:08 AM EDT reply actions  

I forgot...
WARNING:  I forgot to hit "reply to this."
This is NOT a new thread.

by Lucy on Jun 19, 2007 11:10 AM EDT reply actions  

You're....
You're on fire today Lucy!

LOL

by CharlieBrown on Jun 19, 2007 11:18 AM EDT up reply actions  

Awww Shucks...
Awww Shucks...glad you noticed, Charlie Brown.

by Lucy on Jun 19, 2007 1:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

We've lost him then?
I guess that means we've lost him altogether.  
It's a shame.  I really thought he had loads of potential.  
Too bad his fielding was horrific.

by Lucy on Jun 19, 2007 8:15 PM EDT reply actions  

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