Jeter: Yankee Clipper (sort of) and Boss Man

by Cliff Schecter on May 24, 2007 12:46 PM EDT in New York Yankees News

Well Jeter's linked himself to two pretty big names in Yankeeland this week.

First, he now has more hits than Joltin' Joe as a Yankee (well that was the only stop for both of them, so a bit redundant). Not a bad name to be mentioned alongside.

And then there is Jeter "The Boss":

Jeter revealed Tuesday he plans to buy a major league baseball team after he retires.
"I would like to own a team," Jeter told New York's 1050 ESPN Radio prior to the Yankees' 7-3 loss to the Red Sox on Tuesday. "That would be kind of cool to get an opportunity to call some of the shots."
Jeter then predicted he will achieve his goal.
"I will do it one day," Jeter said.

Too bad he won't be able to bring back Billy Martin to manage.

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Jeter owning an MLB team

I certainly can see it. He's got some much money from his contracts and endorsements. I'd say he's got at least $200 million dollars by the time his current contract ends.

Yankees win! Theeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee Yankees win! -John Sterling

by goyankees on May 24, 2007 12:50 PM EDT reply actions

And teams go for $500 mil

Unless Jeter has made some astute investments, his net worth won't nearly be able to cover the cost of buying a team, let alone operating it.

River Ave. Blues
Yanks and prospects

by PinstripePowerhouse on May 24, 2007 1:15 PM EDT up reply actions

Jeter talks about heading up a group of investors. Posada's already on board.
These guys don't spend their own money on this sort of thing- they stack up enough limited partners with colateral that some bank or corporation will loan them the money.
Now, I don't see Jeter buying the Yankees, but I think he could have a team like the Pads or the Jays if he played his cards right.

"Have faith in the Yankees, my son. Think of the great DiMaggio."

by jscape2000 on May 24, 2007 1:24 PM EDT reply actions

that's what Jordan did

by collink on May 24, 2007 1:33 PM EDT up reply actions

Sox

They're too expensive, but how funny would it be if he bought the Red Sox?

by SP on May 24, 2007 2:11 PM EDT reply actions

And then traded Beckett and Dice K

to the Yankees for Pavano and Igawa and then sold the team.

Everything looks nicer when you win. The girls are prettier. The cigars taste better. The trees are greener. --Billy Martin

by garp on May 24, 2007 2:27 PM EDT up reply actions

No thanks...

The Yanks don't need two more bad contracts for mediocre pitchers.

Depressed Fan
Let's get Donnie a ring!

by Depressed Fan on May 24, 2007 3:06 PM EDT up reply actions

Huh?

Beckett's contract is a fucking steal. Not to mention the remarkably inaccurate assertion that Dice K and Beckett are mediocre. Wow.

Fear the Evil Empire

by pfistyunc on May 24, 2007 3:09 PM EDT up reply actions

really

those two mediocre pitchers are a combined 13-2 right now.

and i agree, under $10M for some like dice-K is a steal. i think eventually the beckett deal will work in florida's favor (hanley ramirez is sweet) but right now its paying huge dividends for the sox (lowell is batting like .330 and he was a throw-in).

i hate the bosox but give me either of those two in a second.

by Clutch like Leyritz on May 24, 2007 3:53 PM EDT up reply actions

Mediocre

Dice K has 4.09 ERA, and he's still in his first time through the league. That number is going to climb when hitters make adjustments. The Yanks won't need to make adjustments, they own him already.

Beckett is coming off a season in which he had a 5.01 ERA and gave up 36 HRs. Yes, he got off to a good start this year, but blister problems have cropped up again.

The thing that no one seems to want to admit is that the entire Sox pitching staff has spent the better part of two months pitching entirely over their heads. Neither Beckett, nor Dice K, is more than a mediocre pitcher. I'll give you above average if you twist my arm, but they are not elite.

Depressed Fan
Let's get Donnie a ring!

by Depressed Fan on May 24, 2007 4:05 PM EDT up reply actions

That's a nice theory...

But it's almost always advantage pitcher the first time through the league, then the batters make the adjustments. For a small sample-size, take a look at his first start against the Mariners, and then his second.

To answer your question, there are very few elite pitchers, that's what makes them elite. There are plenty who fall between Beckett and Dice K's level and elite. The Yanks have 2 in their rotation right now, in a month they'll probably have 4.

Depressed Fan
Let's get Donnie a ring!

by Depressed Fan on May 24, 2007 4:24 PM EDT up reply actions

Who's calling them elite?

Do you have to be elite to be a good pitcher? Andy Pettitte isn't elite, but I believe most people here would call him a good pitcher.

"[T]he entire Sox pitching staff has spent the better part of two months pitching entirely over their heads." Do you have evidence of this? Because from looking at the stats, both Beckett and Matsuzaka have ERA's in-line with their peripherals.

Beckett has 8.35 K/9 and 2.13 BB/9, giving him close to a 4:1 K/BB ratio, and has given up only 2 HR's in 50 innings while pitching in the toughest hitting division in baseball. In addition, those numbers mirror his years with the Marlins. This leads me to believe that his hiccup with Boston last year was merely a bad year. A ballplayers not allowed to have bad years?

As for Dice-K, he may not be performing as well as Beckett, but a K/9 of 8.47 and a BB/9 of 2.61 is nothing to sneeze at. In fact, those rates are well above average. It's a wonder why his ERA isn't lower than it currently is. And while you think the Yankees "own him already," keep in mind that Dice-K has pitched against the Yankees for a grand total of 13 innings. Is 13 innings enough to "own" somebody? Really?

by Willton on May 24, 2007 4:42 PM EDT up reply actions

This is great.....

Only at PA can you have a thread start over Jeter buying a team and turn it into bashing some bonehead because his ideas of good pitchers are completely stupid.

Keep em going...

by AKJoe on May 24, 2007 5:02 PM EDT up reply actions

Making my point for me.

"Beckett has 8.35 K/9 and 2.13 BB/9, giving him close to a 4:1 K/BB ratio, and has given up only 2 HR's in 50 innings while pitching in the toughest hitting division in baseball. In addition, those numbers mirror his years with the Marlins."

You kinda made my point for me there. In the two months so far this year, his numbers have mirrored his years with the Marlins, in a very pitcher-friendly park, in the National League. Last year, he was in a hitter-friendly park, in a tough hitting division, in the American League. For some reason, you consider last year the anomaly, and this year the norm.

At this point last year, he was 7-1 with a 3.80 ERA. When the weather got hotter, the ball started flying out of the park. There's no reason to think that won't happen again this year, if he isn't on and off the DL all year w/ blister problems.

And 13 innings is enough to realize Dice K isn't fooling anyone.

Depressed Fan
Let's get Donnie a ring!

by Depressed Fan on May 24, 2007 5:08 PM EDT up reply actions

Not to jump all over you,

because there are plenty of people here more qualified for that than I am, but to suggest that Fenway Park is a pitcher's park, or that it resembles Pro Player Stadium in some way other than the big left field wall, is a bit off base if not flat out wrong. All in my opinion, of course.

"Have faith in the Yankees, my son. Think of the great DiMaggio."

by jscape2000 on May 24, 2007 7:13 PM EDT up reply actions

To clarify

He said that Fenway is a hitter's park.

River Ave. Blues
Yanks and prospects

by PinstripePowerhouse on May 24, 2007 8:18 PM EDT up reply actions

Bah

You're right. I misread it. I hope I did better than that for my students while grading papers.

"Have faith in the Yankees, my son. Think of the great DiMaggio."

by jscape2000 on May 24, 2007 8:25 PM EDT up reply actions

I noticed

that you completely glossed over your "bad contracts" claim since it was so foolish. Dice K and Beckett are absolute steals with their contracts.

Fear the Evil Empire

by pfistyunc on May 24, 2007 4:48 PM EDT up reply actions

Bad contracts

$102M for Dice K is not a bad contract? That's what Boston is paying for him.

$10M per year for a pitcher w/ a 5.01 ERA who gave up 36 HRs is a bad contract in my book as well.

Depressed Fan
Let's get Donnie a ring!

by Depressed Fan on May 24, 2007 4:56 PM EDT up reply actions

$50M for 6 years of what?

You got me. When I made the first statement I wasn't taking into account the $52M they paid for the right to negotiate with him.

$50M for 6 years of service of a mediocre pitcher is less offensive than $102M. You win.

Depressed Fan
Let's get Donnie a ring!

by Depressed Fan on May 24, 2007 5:11 PM EDT up reply actions

Obviously you have not been

paying close attention to what the cost of a mediocre pitcher is these days.

Everything looks nicer when you win. The girls are prettier. The cigars taste better. The trees are greener. --Billy Martin

by garp on May 24, 2007 5:14 PM EDT up reply actions

Actually,

that was the whole point of my original comment.

The Yanks already paid too much for an ex-Marlin (Pavano) and an import (Igawa) and that hasn't worked out too well. I'd rather not go down the exact same road again.

Depressed Fan
Let's get Donnie a ring!

by Depressed Fan on May 24, 2007 5:18 PM EDT up reply actions

Right,

because the fact that Pavano and Igawa have been poor has something to do with a) playing for the Marlins, or b) being an import.

I think you were late to the station when the Logic Train passed.

by Willton on May 24, 2007 5:24 PM EDT up reply actions

There is a correlation

when you're talking about coming from the National League to the American League, and also talking about coming from Japan to the Major Leagues.

Very few pitchers see success moving from the NL to the AL (Schilling, Pedro being the exceptions), and can you name 1 Japanese pitcher who's been an effective starter for longer than 1 or 2 years in the majors?

Depressed Fan
Let's get Donnie a ring!

by Depressed Fan on May 24, 2007 5:28 PM EDT up reply actions

So,

with the lack of success from Japanese starters so far, we're going to classify them as a whole as mediocre? Wow, that's shortsighted.

And very few pitchers see success moving from the NL to the AL? Gosh, did you forget David Cone? Dan Haren? Jon Lieber? Andy Pettitte? I agree that the AL is a tougher league to pitch in, but does that make all NL pitchers second-class citizens? Boy, I hope the Yankees never pick up Roy Oswalt, Brandon Webb, Jake Peavy, Cole Hammels, Rich Hill, John Maine, Tom Gorzelanny or Tim Lincecum when they become free agents, 'cause they'd just be mediocre.

You can't immediately classify a pitcher based on where he came from. You have to do so based on what he can do. So far, Beckett and Dice-K has displayed that they can pitch quite well. I'm not sure why you would not want that on the Yankees.

by Willton on May 24, 2007 7:35 PM EDT up reply actions

Since coming to Boston...

Josh Beckett's numbers with Boston are as follows (including his incredible start this year, which far outpaces anything he did for the Marlins)

Beckett's numbers, 2006 A.L. average in quotes.
ERA: 4.54 (4.56)
WHIP: 1.24 (1.46)
K/9: 7.22 (6.36)
BB/9: 3.03 (3.2)
K/BB: 2.38 (1.98)
HR/9: 1.34 (1.14)

Like I said, mediocre, possibly a little better than average, unless you take his HR allowed into account.

I didn't discount Beckett out of hand because he moved from the NL to the AL, I did it because he's following the pattern. Good pitcher in the NL, mediocre in the AL.

I'm saying Dice K is mediocre because his numbers have been a little above average on his first time through the league. He isn't a rookie who needs to learn how to pitch. He has the advantage over the hitters who have never seen him before, I expect his decent numbers to balloon as the season wears on.

Depressed Fan
Let's get Donnie a ring!

by Depressed Fan on May 24, 2007 8:26 PM EDT up reply actions

Mediocre?

Almost every one of those stats from Beckett is better than average. How is that mediocre? Gosh, you'd think you'd read your own writing...

Mediocre means of moderate or low quality. I don't see anything that Beckett has done being of moderate or low quality. If he is above average in strikeouts, walks, ERA, WHIP, and K/BB, how can you classify that as mediocre? You HAVE to call that above average.

AS for Dice-K, you assume too much. The guy was the best free agent pitcher last off-season, and for good reason: the guy strikes out the world, and he's got the stuff to back it up. His numbers in Japan were eye-popping, and while that is a lesser league across the ocean, that doesn't mean that he will suddenly turn into Igawa now that he's in the States. I fully expect Matsuzaka's ERA to fall as the season wears on. He's going to be a 7-win player.

by Willton on May 25, 2007 2:56 AM EDT up reply actions

We just...

disagree on Dice K. You think he's going to adjust to the hitters, I think it's the other way around. History says I'm going to be right, but we'll see.

Beckett's WHIP and K's are above average, HR allowed is well below average, ERA and BB/9 basically average. That's "of moderate quality" in my book.

If Beckett keeps pitching like he has so far this year, then obviously you're going to be right about him. If his June-Sept. in '07 is anything like his June-Sept in '06, then I'm going to be right.

Basically, you're weighting the past two months much more heavily, and as I've already stated, I think these guys are pitching over their heads.

Depressed Fan
Let's get Donnie a ring!

by Depressed Fan on May 25, 2007 8:55 AM EDT up reply actions

Does that mean

you are giving up on Blower-san?

Fear the Evil Empire

by pfistyunc on May 24, 2007 9:37 PM EDT up reply actions

Blower-san?

Not sure who that is.

Depressed Fan
Let's get Donnie a ring!

by Depressed Fan on May 24, 2007 10:10 PM EDT up reply actions

Igawa

Great Success!

by ReLaunch on May 24, 2007 10:32 PM EDT up reply actions

Yeah,

I've given up on him. 90 MPH fastball that he insists on throwing up in the zone, coupled with little to no command. Best-case scenario is that he develops a curve/slider in the minors and becomes a lefty specialist.

Depressed Fan
Let's get Donnie a ring!

by Depressed Fan on May 24, 2007 10:34 PM EDT up reply actions

All I have heard is

that he is working on mechanics at Tampa

Great Success!

by ReLaunch on May 24, 2007 10:55 PM EDT up reply actions

We'll see him again in the bigs

Bank on it.

They aren't going to pay him $46M to pitch side sessions with Billy Connors in Tampa.

by anaconda on May 24, 2007 10:57 PM EDT up reply actions

They gave Carol $40M

to do just that

Fear the Evil Empire

by pfistyunc on May 25, 2007 6:57 AM EDT up reply actions

He'll be back

The Yankees have too much cash tied up in Igawa not to let him try again. But I think it will be in a much different capacity. So long as we are trying to climb to Boston there is no chance Igawa returns to pitch (he might be working the stands as a vendor).

If we overtake Boston and have a cushion, I can see him getting another shot in middle relief. If the chase goes to the wire, we likely won't see him until 2008.

"Baseball is the background music of my life." -George Will

by Ronster22 on May 25, 2007 11:22 AM EDT up reply actions