Andy Pettitte admits to using HGH "twice" to heal

by John Amato on Dec 15, 2007 6:14 PM EST in News Comment 94 comments

Andy Pettitte used human growth hormone to recover from an elbow injury in 2002, the New York Yankees pitcher said two days after he was cited in the Mitchell Report.

Pettitte said he tried HGH on two occasions.

"If what I did was an error in judgment on my part, I apologize," Pettitte said Saturday in a statement released by his agent. "I accept responsibility for those two days."
"In 2002 I was injured. I had heard that human growth hormone could promote faster healing for my elbow," Pettitte said in the statement released to The Associated Press by agent Randy Hendricks.

"I felt an obligation to get back to my team as soon as possible. For this reason, and only this reason, for two days I tried human growth hormone. Though it was not against baseball rules, I was not comfortable with what I was doing, so I stopped.

"This is it - two days out of my life; two days out of my entire career, when I was injured and on the disabled list," he said. "I wasn't looking for an edge. I was looking to heal."

"If what I did," is kind of shaky, but I expected Andy to come clean if he really did use HGH because...

A) his first statement was very cautions.

B) He seems sincere about his religious background.

Updated:

Is this good enough for the fans? It is for me (even though I am saddened that he used them) because he didn't triple the size of his head and throw 98 mph fast balls while racking up Cy Young awards. Pain and injuries can lead players and people in general to try unusual things to get better, but I would never have used anything that didn't come from my medical/homeopathic doctor, a well respected chiropractor or acupuncturist.

I've been sick for almost two weeks now (hence I haven't been posting lately) with a viral infection that won't quit and Thursday my doctor toyed with the idea of giving me "steroids" of all things, but we decided against it.

And where were all the incredible sports reporters that always tell bloggers how much we need them? We know they have protected players for decades, but for them to say that they were hoodwinked too is laughable.

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Comments

john

take the steroids. it'll cut down your inflammation and you won't feel so shitty. they are very common drugs. they doctor is not going to shoot you in the butt with deca--its probably an oral steroid.

i guarantee they won't shrink you balls.

by tombradylikesdudes on Dec 15, 2007 7:10 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

I took them

last time I had a severe virus, it helped the inflamation in my lungs and throat and my coughing.

I've also taken the pills when I had an allergic skin reaction.

Steroids are medicine. Certain ones when are abused they are performance enhancing drugs.

Cortisone btw is a steroid, and players get injections of that all all the time.

by Greenfuzz on Dec 15, 2007 11:37 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

it's not good enough for me

You write: B) He seems sincere about his religious background.

What sort of religion does he practice that condones cheating, lying and illegal drug use?

He obviously knew he was going to be outed in the report, since he hastily signed a $16 million contract the day before.

He should retire now. We don't need any more cheaters on our team

by cph on Dec 15, 2007 8:31 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

In answer to your question,

all of them.

Everything looks nicer when you win. The girls are prettier. The cigars taste better. The trees are greener. --Billy Martin

by garp on Dec 15, 2007 8:55 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Garp

OK, Garp, you've got me there!

by cph on Dec 15, 2007 9:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

enlighten us

on who the other cheaters are on our 40 man roster.

by tombradylikesdudes on Dec 15, 2007 9:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Uh

you have seen the immobile circus freak who used to be our first baseman and is now a part-time DH, right?

Fear the Evil Empire

by pfistyunc on Dec 15, 2007 11:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

good call

my bad, i almost forgot about that guy. he still plays baseball?

by tombradylikesdudes on Dec 16, 2007 12:03 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

yo, tom

Reread my post. Garp was answering the question posed in my post, which had nothing to do with what other Yanks were on the juice.

by cph on Dec 15, 2007 11:58 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

i guess

i misunderstood you when you said "we don't need any more cheaters on our team." i thought the "more" meant implied that there was already some number on the team. my bad.

by tombradylikesdudes on Dec 16, 2007 12:05 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

it pisses me off

that McNamee them out, theres so many guys out there that did shit and its a shame that Andy Pettite has to take the wrap. Its all you see on ESPN

by Soriano NY 12 on Dec 15, 2007 9:44 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

I think his response

is sincere and real and I don't think it's a big deal. I feel comfortable with it.

Clemens on the other hand seems to be an unrepentant cheater and that sucks.

by Greenfuzz on Dec 15, 2007 11:39 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

I am offended by Clemens

I mean we all knew this was coming...

But he has the balls to come out with a statement saying that steroids is wrong and that it should be taken out of the sport?

At least Andy and Giambi have the guts to come out and say they cheated.

Eleven wins in October...

by Edwantsacracker on Dec 16, 2007 12:36 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Pettitte

has always been upfront. I respect the fact that he is being honest. I don't think any of these players mentioned in this report should say anything until they know what the penalties are going to be. I for 1 will be cheering for Andy everytime he takes the mound.

by NWYankeefan on Dec 15, 2007 11:45 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Honest?

How is coming clean after getting busted demonstrate honesty? He had five years to come clean and chose not to do so until he absolutely had to. Then, for a guy contemplating retirement he sure rushed to collect that $16M awfully fast. Gee, I wonder if he knew he was about to get busted and wanted to make sure he got paid?

Fear the Evil Empire

by pfistyunc on Dec 16, 2007 10:54 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Paid

He would have gotten paid no matter what. He'll get signed again next year if he want's to also. He is a class act who made a mistake, and owned upto it, granted a few years after the fact, but still he stood up and said I did, this is when, and for how long.

by NWYankeefan on Dec 16, 2007 11:17 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

It wasn't banned

It wasn't a big deal. His own moral compass told him it was wrong and he quit using it. When his name came up he came clean. I have no problem with what he did and his response.

HGH doesn't make you a circus freak like Giambino.

"Baseball is the background music of my life." -George Will

by Ronster22 on Dec 17, 2007 10:27 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Just because it wasn't banned by baseball

doesn't make it any more legal to take it without a prescription. If it wasn't banned, why wouldn't he run it by the team physician before taking it or why would he lie and deny it the first time he was accused. Again, if this was Wakefield, PA would be exploding with posts railing on him as a cheat and a fraud. The hypocrisy is shameful.

Fear the Evil Empire

by pfistyunc on Dec 17, 2007 10:43 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Wakefield?

Ah, no. Varitek? Manny? Papi? Papelbon ... yes.

"Baseball is the background music of my life." -George Will

by Ronster22 on Dec 17, 2007 4:31 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Just throwing his name out as an example

of one of their supposed "stand-up guys". Bottom line: if a Boston player threw out the same bullshit story, something tells me Yankee fans would be less than accepting of his excuse.

Fear the Evil Empire

by pfistyunc on Dec 17, 2007 4:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Nah

We'd certainly heckle him for it excessively when he came to town, but it wouldn't go beyond that.

Paul Byrd had a similar story to Pettitte's and I shrugged it off the same way I'm shrugging off Andy's story.

It would be different if it was someone like Schilling, whose fat mouth never stops, but anyone else, esp. someone as classy as Wakefield, I wouldn't really care.

by matthaggs on Dec 17, 2007 6:17 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

It's the nature of the beast

If Manny or Ortiz got caught doing the same thing -they would be savaged by everyone but Red Sox fans.

MLB fans are hypocrites. We've all known what was going on for a decade and now we're pretending to be outraged now that they are exposed.

There are few better examples of that hypocrisy than Bonds and the fans in SF. Everyone knows he's been on the juice for years. He was hated and booed everywhere but his own ballpark last season.

Yankee fans are really no different than anyone else. Beloved athletes are going to get more sympathy from their home fans than they would in other baseball towns - especially their biggest rival.

by anaconda on Dec 17, 2007 6:30 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Andy is a class act

And I'm sure that he feels this admission puts this chapter in the past and I hope it does too. An outstanding career of a stand up guy should not be marred by trying something a couple of times to try to get well. It is different than trying to get an edge and I not only believe him, but I respect him.

"The secret of managing is to keep the guys who hate you away from the guys who are undecided." -Casey Stengel

by bxgrl1 on Dec 15, 2007 11:49 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Very

Very well said..

by NWYankeefan on Dec 15, 2007 11:55 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

No dice

While it is nice to bury our heads in the sand and pretend that this is no big deal because Andy likes the Bible and is a good dad, let's not sugarcoat this. He is a cheater and got busted. The "I thought it might help my healing" line is barely more palatable than Bonds' flaxseed oil bullshit. Hey Andy, if you heard that something could speed up your recovery, how about running that by the ol' team physician? Nah, it is probably better just to pay the guy folding your towels to get you something to assist your healing. The Yankees and Mets do require all of their clubhouse attendants to have be licensed physicians, so what's the big deal? Why bother with asking a doctor when you can have your back alley pharmacist handle things for you?

Fear the Evil Empire

by pfistyunc on Dec 16, 2007 10:49 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Why the change of attitude?

The other day you said what Pettitte did was no big deal.

by anaconda on Dec 16, 2007 11:16 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Not really

What I recall saying was that I felt bad for Andy to be lumped in with Bonds. Limited HGH in an injury situation is light years from a regimented program of steroids for performance enhancement. That being said, what Andy did was still wrong, still cheating and should not be dismissed because Andy shot some Power for Living commercials back in the day. Ask yourself this, if it was Wakefield in this report (who by all accounts is equally as honorable as Andy) who took some HGH to recover quicker, do you really think PA would have such a no big deal attitude? Of course not. Andy is a popular Yankee but now he is a dishonorable, cheating popular Yankee. I find no honor in "coming clean" five years after you were busted.

Fear the Evil Empire

by pfistyunc on Dec 16, 2007 11:28 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Oops

I meant lumped in with Clemens.

Fear the Evil Empire

by pfistyunc on Dec 16, 2007 11:29 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I have no doubt

that the Red Sox and every other team has had a Radomski or two in their clubhouse as well. Those guys just haven't been caught and forced by the feds to rat out "business associates" to lessen their jail time.

This isn't limited to the Yankee clubhouse. Everyone knows that. They just happened to be team that took the biggest hit in this report because the sources had NY ties.

You're right, though. What Pettitte did was wrong and he knows it. We can make excuses for him all day long, but that's the truth.

The good thing is that he's not a serious HoF candidate and won't break any sacred MLB records so he's likely to be forgiven sooner than others who won't be so fortunate.

by anaconda on Dec 16, 2007 12:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Absolutely

This is by no means limited to the few clubhouses or players listed in the report. I just tossed Wakefield's name out there as one of the Boston "good guys" to demonstrate the shameful hypocrisy of Yankee fans on the Pettitte issue.

Fear the Evil Empire

by pfistyunc on Dec 16, 2007 12:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

2002

HGH was not a banned substance... I am unsure as to how this can be considered cheating in the tradtional sense... because of how he aquired it? i'm not cononing its use, but by simple chronology, it seems like a non-issue.

in any case, i am willing to take andy at his word.

You don't realize how easy this game is until you get up in that broadcasting booth. -Mickey Mantle

by NumberSeven on Dec 16, 2007 11:46 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Taking it without a prescription

is illegal and the last time I checked the guy folding towels didn't have an MD after his name. Obviously Andy knew what he was doing was wrong or he would have told the team and his doctors about it or at the very least consulted his physician before using it. Since it wasn't banned at the time, why not say "boy, my healing process was sure helped by that HGH I took. I am happy to be back helping my team" upon his return from the DL? He hid it for five years for a reason. Andy got busted and offered up the same lame-ass, half hearted apology that all of the other "I didn't know what was in that supplement" cheaters tried to throw out there and the hypocrisy of Yankee fans on this is embarassing.

Fear the Evil Empire

by pfistyunc on Dec 16, 2007 11:59 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

if you

actually read the report, you'd know that pettitte didn't get hgh directly fro radomski. mcnamee got it from radomski.

therefore, he did run it by the the team trainer--the trainer shot him up.

just clarifying.

by tombradylikesdudes on Dec 16, 2007 12:27 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Another clarification

Team trainers don't go to medical school or write prescriptions.

Fear the Evil Empire

by pfistyunc on Dec 16, 2007 5:13 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

another clarification

trainers are recognized by the ama as allied health professionals and are supervised by team physicians.

from the dept. of labor, 70% of athletic trainers have a masters or doctoral degree--usually a requirement for high school trainers and college trainers. i am assuming that for a professional sports team, they are a part of the 70%. despite not going to medical school, but given their coursework, i believe they are qualified to administer hgh, though its illegal and against fda regulations to do so.

i liken this to the balco situation in that greg anderson knows what the hell he is doing when it comes to steroid programs, despite illegality.

by tombradylikesdudes on Dec 16, 2007 7:42 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

That is interesting

I was not aware that they are so qualified. However, they are not physicians and cannot write prescriptions. Hence, they had no business obtaining or administering HGH

Fear the Evil Empire

by pfistyunc on Dec 17, 2007 9:57 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

A lot of physicians

prescribed HGH to people in this same era for more trivial reasons. Suzanne Sommers took HGH for years, maybe she still is. She went on TV and said she and her husband were taking it to get their youth back after cancer and other illnesses. There were a whole lot of people taking it, prescribed by doctors simply to lose weight and get their youthful libido and energy back. It was not illegal in the same sense as a street drug, doctors can prescribe drugs for off label uses.

by Greenfuzz on Dec 18, 2007 2:53 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Three's Company rocked

So under which prescription was Mr. Pettitte taking his HGH? Oh, that's right, he didn't have a prescription for it. My bad.

Fear the Evil Empire

by pfistyunc on Dec 20, 2007 7:05 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Wrong pfisty ...

I believe all trainers are under the headship of a physician, or group of physicians. When I played, I needed a prescription for a muscle relaxer, and it was given to me by our trainer. He signed it but it was the doctor's pad.

"Baseball is the background music of my life." -George Will

by Ronster22 on Dec 17, 2007 10:30 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Interesting

So where are Andy's prescriptions for HGH? Oh, that's right they don't exist because HGH is not approved for Andy's "healing" purposes. No doctor would sign off on such a prescription because he/she knows they would lose their license for doing so. I forgot that since Andy is a Yankee farmhand, his backalley use of HGH is completely justified. Silly me.

Fear the Evil Empire

by pfistyunc on Dec 17, 2007 10:34 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

of course

there are no prescriptions. you are right that no doctor would sign off on that--hgh is not fda approved for athletic healing use. however, just because it is not fda approved doesn't mean that it's an extremely effective drug for this use.

there are ethical issues at play. if hgh was approved, imagine the clamor it would cause in the world of anti-aging medication. old people who don't naturally produce hgh on their own, today, are claiming it's some "fountain of youth." you will see it over-prescribed and they definitely don't want that.

yes, it's illegal to use a drug that you don't have a prescription for. however, i don't think that andy's use was "backalley" either. it was administered to him by someone who knew what they're doing. was this justified? i know what i'd think, but i'd really rather not enter a moral debate on a blog.

by tombradylikesdudes on Dec 17, 2007 1:28 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Wow, really?

What part of secretly obtaining HGH without a prescription, paying cash and lying about it for five years is out in the open? I couldn't think of a more apt description of this activity than calling backalley pharmacology. You are right, it was administered to him by someone who knew what they were doing.....was illegal.

Fear the Evil Empire

by pfistyunc on Dec 17, 2007 2:03 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

i guess

we diverge when it comes to the definition of "backalley."

by tombradylikesdudes on Dec 17, 2007 2:29 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I define backalley

as the place where Ronster's sister makes her living. Zing!

Fear the Evil Empire

by pfistyunc on Dec 17, 2007 2:35 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

It's my mom, you bastid!

My sister works the poll in Des Moines, and graduated second in her class at cashier-training institute. Leave her out of it.

"Baseball is the background music of my life." -George Will

by Ronster22 on Dec 17, 2007 4:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Baseball

has had it's head burried in the sand. The teams new this was going on, MLB management new it was going on, they all burried there heads. Owners, players, Selig, they all new what was happening, it made the game more exciting, and more profitable. Nobody cared. Until now. Cheating suck's, the game needs to be cleaned up, but the blame has to be shared.

by NWYankeefan on Dec 16, 2007 11:24 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Media is stupid.

What is up with the hysteria with Andy Pettitte. Rodney Harrison did the same thing and the media gave him a pass. What is up with that? HGH Harrison and NFL gets a free pass from the Media and that is bullshit.

by BillyBobisdrunk on Dec 16, 2007 12:04 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

In case anyone was wondering

Clemens is FUCKED. It is amazing that in a matter of 48 hours he could go from possibly the best pitcher of all time to virtually certain not to make the HOF. To me he is no different than Bonds now and deserves to have his legacy completely discounted. The guys who were HOFers without roids and still took this shit are the worst offenders in my eyes. The arrogance is appalling.

Fear the Evil Empire

by pfistyunc on Dec 16, 2007 12:10 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

i totally agree

i have a much bigger problem with the barry bonds and roger clemens of the world juicing than someone like FP santangelo. their arrogance sets me off as well.

by Clutch like Leyritz on Dec 16, 2007 10:31 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

i don't

know if i agree that he's "certain not to make the HOF." it's going to be interesting to see how this all plays out--how this era will be remembered. i'm curious to know, of all the hitters that clemens faced; what % juiced? not that i'm presenting this question as an excuse--it's just tough to omit an entire era of baseball players from this era in the record books.

imo, the hof represents the best players of their time. in our lifetime, bonds and clemens are the best to have played the game. yes, they (almost positively) used performance-enhancing drugs but (imo) most of their competition did as well.

do i condone this usage? no. but, in the end, this era will be remembered for what it was--the steroid era.

bonds and clemens will be inducted into the hof. history will remember them as the best players of the steroid era, and frankly, i can accept that.

by tombradylikesdudes on Dec 16, 2007 12:40 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

Very nicely said

Clemens is the best pitcher of his generation. He should be in the hall, 1st ballot. I don't condone the usage either, but it's fact that steriods and hgh ect. were used by a large percentage of mlb players durning this time. It is what it is...The Steriod era.

by NWYankeefan on Dec 16, 2007 1:03 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

1st ballot

and his plaque should read:

"The best pitcher of the Steroid Era, the Rocket's achievements across a 24 year career rank among the most incredible superhuman feats in the history of the game."

"Have faith in the Yankees, my son. Think of the great DiMaggio."

by jscape2000 on Dec 16, 2007 1:54 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

How did the 1st ballot work out for Big Mac?

Fear the Evil Empire

by pfistyunc on Dec 16, 2007 7:50 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

But is it fair

to place the blame for an era on Clemens? There were too many names not in the Mitchell report for me to be comfortable barring anyone from the Hall.

Better to let the cheaters in under suspicion than to delude ourselves into thinking that we've only let the clean players into the HoF.

"Have faith in the Yankees, my son. Think of the great DiMaggio."

by jscape2000 on Dec 16, 2007 9:27 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I'm not passing judgment

on whether or not Clemens should be in, simply stating my opinion that he has no shot of getting in now. Like I said, how did the first ballot work out for Big Mac? Same thing is coming for Clemens and Bonds.

Fear the Evil Empire

by pfistyunc on Dec 16, 2007 10:45 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

unless they

"prove" that he used, he's going to be in the hof.

by tombradylikesdudes on Dec 16, 2007 12:31 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

They don't need to prove anything

its not like Clemens triggered some automatic hall of fame clause. The hall of fame is the opinion of the sports writers so its whether they think he did it or not and whether they think that he should get in the hall of fame.

Eleven wins in October...

by Edwantsacracker on Dec 16, 2007 4:16 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

i disagree

as of now, i think the writers will give him the benefit of the doubt.

what i'm trying to say is that in 5 years, that could change. if he's proven to have used before the first vote, the landscape changes dramatically.

therefore, it it does matter if they prove something.

if there are new developments (i.e. more "witnesses"), the landscape. the writers have time to rethink their opinion on clemens--what happens from now and then will have a huge effect.

by tombradylikesdudes on Dec 16, 2007 4:32 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Very true

This is not some objective stat like the 300 win club. He is not guaranteed admission into the HOF and in my opinion will not get in. If he continues to lie and arrogantly dismiss the mountain of evidence against him, there is no way in hell that 75% of the voters will give him the nod.

Fear the Evil Empire

by pfistyunc on Dec 16, 2007 5:15 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

So getting in

Clemens is so getting in. He might not get in on the first ballot (which I think would be appropriate), but he's getting in. I suspect that Bonds will get in too. He'll likely show up in an orange jumper with shackles.

"Baseball is the background music of my life." -George Will

by Ronster22 on Dec 17, 2007 10:32 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I respectfully disagree

No chance in hell that 75% of the voters vote for Clemens who has defiantly and arrogantly denied doping in light of the mounting evidence against him. Greater than 25% of the voters won't vote for a known roids user, a la Big Mac.

Fear the Evil Empire

by pfistyunc on Dec 17, 2007 10:36 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I'll bet on it ...

He's not Bonds. Bonds is a bastard to the media and they hate him for it. Clemens on the other hand has always been candid and available to the media. He's well-liked and respected. I suggest that even with the HGH usage they vote him in on the second try.

I'll bet you a beer at a future PA baseball trip to the stadium he gets in on the 1st or 2nd try.

"Baseball is the background music of my life." -George Will

by Ronster22 on Dec 17, 2007 4:36 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I'll bet you a hotdog, Pfisty

I always feel pressure. What I don't have is fear. -- El Duque

by LateInningRelief on Dec 17, 2007 4:39 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I'll take you up on both

Man, I hope I win. I am scared to think about how much a hot dog and beer will cost in five years at the Stadium!

Fear the Evil Empire

by pfistyunc on Dec 17, 2007 4:55 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Big Mac

wasn't a hall of famer untill after he started steriods

by NWYankeefan on Dec 16, 2007 11:26 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Mac no chance

Clemens makes it in my opinion. Mac? no way.

"Baseball is the background music of my life." -George Will

by Ronster22 on Dec 17, 2007 4:37 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

You were the one

that suggested inducting Pete Rose into the hall of fame after his death weren't you? you suggested writing on his plaque all time leader in hits and a cheater banned for life.

Eleven wins in October...

by Edwantsacracker on Dec 16, 2007 12:25 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Yep

I'd still support that.

"Have faith in the Yankees, my son. Think of the great DiMaggio."

by jscape2000 on Dec 16, 2007 4:29 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I agree

That's perfect, but he should be in

by NWYankeefan on Dec 16, 2007 11:29 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Keep in mind

that you need 75% of the votes to get in. If he continues to to arrogantly deny this in light of Pettitte's admission and the other evidence against him, he has no shot. Same with Bonds if he is convicted.

Fear the Evil Empire

by pfistyunc on Dec 16, 2007 7:49 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I hated to see WELLS get traded for Roger

when he did...Wells was a very good post season pitcher (6-2 for NY) and was 18-4 in 98. I was pissed that King George thought he needed to dump Wells for Clemens...since Clemens chose Toronto over the Yanks in 96...

And I'm sorry, but the Rocket is tainted goods for evah! 10 out of 24 years of possible juicing...

by John Amato on Dec 16, 2007 3:18 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

Nothing wrong with taking a steroid

My 18-month old niece was hospitalized for two days a few weeks ago because of a terrible infection that prohibited her breathing.

The steroid treatment was the only thing that reduced the swelling in her throat and allowed her to breathe easier.

Anabolic steroids are a completely different animal.

by anaconda on Dec 16, 2007 5:19 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

Very true

Steroids have a medical purpose. That is why you get them from a doctor. Something tells me your niece's dentist didn't prescribe them to her and then tell you to order them over an internet pharmacy. Just a hunch.

Fear the Evil Empire

by pfistyunc on Dec 16, 2007 7:51 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

medicinal

John,

I was sick for a month last winter and could not get better because it was viral. When I wound up in the ER they gave me steroids and I cleared up within a couple of days. They said take these or we'll be checking you in for a few days. It was the only thing that got me better. I would take them again.

"The secret of managing is to keep the guys who hate you away from the guys who are undecided." -Casey Stengel

by bxgrl1 on Dec 16, 2007 11:40 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

As pfisty has been saying

It's fine if a doctor prescribes steroids, rather than doing some back alley deal with shady dealers. You acquired steroids through legal methods, while Clemens, Pettitte, et al. did not.

That said, I think Andy's motivations for using HGH, regardless of the legality of acquiring said drugs, must be taken into consideration. I said in another post that I'm willing to take him at his word, which is that he used the hormone to heal faster from an injury rather than get an advantage over the competition. While he did get the drugs through shady means, I think his intentions were far more - not honorable, but certainly understandable - than Bonds or Clemens, who used drugs to prolong their careers much farther than they should have gone. I can't blame Andy for wanting to fix an injury so he could get back to playing. I'd probably do the same thing.

by docgonzo on Dec 16, 2007 12:28 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

yeah I agree

At the time HGH was not banned by baseball and while you need a prescription to get it, there are degrees of wrongdoing. There is a much bigger difference between taking a non-banned substance twice to overcome an injury and having a regular regiment of anabolic steroid use to enhance performance.

A couple of years ago I was traveling on business with a colleague and threw my back out. I have a chiropracter and doctor at home but I had to rush to the airport to get on a plane and be in a meeting back in New York in about an hour.

By the time I got to the airport, I was in so much pain I couldn't sit down. My colleague had muscle relaxers with him for his bad back and gave me one to be able to sit on the plane and another one for going to sleep that night. Technically that action was illegal but I would have been in deep doo doo had I not been able to get on that plane and make the meeting. When I got home my doctor prescribed me the EXACT same muscle relaxer for a few days. I told a friend about what happened and she said when she hurt her back she used her husband's Vicodin to sleep that night and saw her doctor the next morning who prescribed her Vicodin. I don't think she and I are the only ones to ever have done such a thing. I smoked pot in high school and college. To my knowledge, it's illegal. I speed almost all the time. To my knowledge, it's illegal. Murder is also illegal but I haven't done that. There is a degree of illegality that is okay in everyone's little world and if someone tells you there's not, they are lying.

Okay, taking a pain pill or muscle relaxer that was not prescribed to you is wrong but it's not the same as being addicted to Oxycontin and lying, cheating and stealing to get it and stay with it. These are the kinds of "wrong" things that "normal" people do in the course of life.

It's not the same as having a drug addiction or a regular regiment of steroid use.

There ARE degrees and the whole sanctimonious, black and white thinking is ridiculous. Taking HGH twice in 2002 while on the disabled list to try to recover from an injury (and I'm not sure it really would have had any effect) is not the same as regular steroid use.

I HATE when people do not take responsibility for what they do and say things like, "Well it's not like I murdered someone." but I also hate when all degrees of wrong doing are lumped together (murder and speeding are both wrong and the murders and speeders are the same).

There is a middle ground but usually you have to be a thinking person to survive there and to understand the many shades of grey where real life happens. Unfortunately most people act like they're incapable of understanding the complexities and nuances of situations.

In today's soundbite world, everyone wants to be able to sum up their feelings and thoughts in 2 seconds. Sometimes it's just not that easy.

"The secret of managing is to keep the guys who hate you away from the guys who are undecided." -Casey Stengel

by bxgrl1 on Dec 16, 2007 1:13 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Of course

I agree that Andy's HGH and Rocket's Roids are apples and oranges in terms of culpability. That is why I feel bad for Andy to be lumped in with him. However, what he did was still illegal, immoral and wrong. Pettitte clearly knew this and I find Yankee fans' dismissal of his transgressions to be shameful, hypocritical and embarassing.

Fear the Evil Empire

by pfistyunc on Dec 16, 2007 5:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Whoa

Shameful, hypocritical and embarrassing? That's a little strong even for you.

You're gonna give all of us a morality lesson? Hilarious.

Pettitte's statement was dodgy, but he at least acknowledged taking HGH, unlike Clemens, Bonds, McGwire et al, who continue to arrogantly deny everything.

No one is dismissing what Pettitte did. The running theme I've noticed throughout all these posts is dissapointment, the way a parent would be dissapointed in a child if the kid did something wrong.

We wish it never happened, but there is clearly an emotional connection between Yankee fans and Pettitte that does not exist with the other players and their teams. Pettitte grew up with the Yankees and was on four championship teams. He's a member of the family. That's why most of us won't hold it against him.

I realize how impossible this might be for you and your barren chest cavity to comprehend.

by matthaggs on Dec 16, 2007 7:23 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I agree that it sucks that it was Andy

because he is so beloved by Yankee fans, myself included. That being said, this bullshit "it isn't a big deal because he was just trying to heal" rationalization is shameful. We constantly gripe about Boston fans and their views on things and then Yankee fans jump right up to the front of the line of embarassing excuses. Andy cheated, he knew he was cheating, he lied about it until he got busted. Spare me this "he's a stand up guy and did the right thing" bullshit.

Fear the Evil Empire

by pfistyunc on Dec 17, 2007 8:20 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

It's definitely

a little disconcerting to be more of a moral relativist on this than you, Pfisty. However...

I understand the outrage, but Pettitte was "immoral" for taking two doses of HGH? C'mon.

Check out this NY Times piece
in today's Week in Review. It looks at all the baseball cheaters through the ages, from Gaylord Perry (HOFer), John McGraw (HOFer), Reggie Jackson (HOFer), etc. (Doesn't mention Mr. Pine Tar himself, George Brett, also a HOFer.)

I don't condone the use of steroids or HGH, but context is everything here. You want cheating on a grander scale? How about GW Bush's finger on the scales in the Florida precincts in 2000? Or, to avoid partisanship, JFK's stuffing the Illinois ballot boxes in 1960?

America was founded on cheating. All the redcoats marched in straight lines, while the continental army hid behind trees and picked them off one at a time.(Okay, stole that from a Bill Cosby routine, but you get the point.)

Dude, there's no need to put on the Sunday school outfit.

I always feel pressure. What I don't have is fear. -- El Duque

by LateInningRelief on Dec 16, 2007 9:32 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Not judging Andy at all

I am merely pointing out that what he did was illegal and cheating and he knew it. What embarasses me has nothing to do with Andy and his backalley pharamacies. What embarasses me is Yankee fans bending over backwards to make excuses for him. What he did was not the end of the world but he also doesn't get a free pass because he is a Yankee legend. Suddenly you all have become as bad as the Chowderheads dismissing Pedro faceplanting Zimmer or Manny posing like a bodybuilder after a home run. That is what I find shameful.

Fear the Evil Empire

by pfistyunc on Dec 17, 2007 8:24 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Seems like you're

most worried about taking heat from idiotic chowderheads, which is quite another thing than doing something shameful.

Unfortunately, this "report," and I use that term advisedly, is so skewed that, yeah, it gives Sox fans a little ammo to stick it to Yankee fans. But I don't think Andy did anything shameful. Nobody's bending over backwards for him; he just comes across as hugely sympathetic in all of this.

This report is hack work commissioned by a hypocrite. It sheds light on such a small portion of those who took steroids or HGH.

I always feel pressure. What I don't have is fear. -- El Duque

by LateInningRelief on Dec 17, 2007 10:27 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Don't need the report anymore

I think everyone knows that this report is the tip of the iceberg but as far as Pettitte goes it is no longer needed. He has admitted that he took HGH. That was shady and illegal and Pettitte clearly knew that. What sickens me is that Yankee fans will now bend over backwards to excuse or dismiss his behavior. Face it, one of our legends admits to being a cheater who got busted and only fessed up when he was caught (which is over 5 years from when it happened.) Spare me the applause for such a "stand up guy."

Fear the Evil Empire

by pfistyunc on Dec 17, 2007 10:32 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

What

Andy did falls in like this in the cheating hierarchy:

Gaylor Perry's career of spitballs > Bonds/Clemens prolonging their careers with 'roids > Brett's Pine Tar bat > Kenny Roger's pine tar in the WS > A-Rod shouting 'ha' > Andy taking HGH twice while he was on the DL

IMO

I always feel pressure. What I don't have is fear. -- El Duque

by LateInningRelief on Dec 17, 2007 12:22 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Understood

And people can place Andy's cheating in that spectrum anywhere they would like. What I continue to have a problem with is the shamefully hypocritical way in which Yankee fans try to make what he did into something it is not.

Fear the Evil Empire

by pfistyunc on Dec 17, 2007 12:27 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Wait what?

You'd place Perry's spitballs ahead of habitual steroid use?

"Have faith in the Yankees, my son. Think of the great DiMaggio."

by jscape2000 on Dec 17, 2007 2:46 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I would place a career

built entirely on spitballs ahead of the use of steroids later in one's career. 2/3s of Bonds and Clemens' careers were clean. Perry's entire career is as murky as a glob of tobacco juice.

I always feel pressure. What I don't have is fear. -- El Duque

by LateInningRelief on Dec 17, 2007 3:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I disagree

because Perry's cheating happen during the game with the chance that the umps would catch him.

Bonds and Roger have cheated off the field with a substance that is undetectable even in a laboratory, let alone on a diamond.

"Have faith in the Yankees, my son. Think of the great DiMaggio."

by jscape2000 on Dec 17, 2007 3:20 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Allegedly cheated...

Neither have been found guilty of anything or admitted to anything. Perry's autobiography was entitled Me and the Spitter.

On a game by game basis, I agree with you. But if you look at the sum total of Perry's career, which was all spitball, all the time, and the sum total of Bonds and Clemens' careers, Perry's collective sins are worse, IMO. Both Bonds and Roger established HOF numbers before they allegedly took the 'roids.

I always feel pressure. What I don't have is fear. -- El Duque

by LateInningRelief on Dec 17, 2007 4:35 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Of course you are ...

You've called him out on his apology. You called him out on his actions--even his religion.

You've judged Andy using words like "back-alley pharmacies"--gimme a break.

"Baseball is the background music of my life." -George Will

by Ronster22 on Dec 17, 2007 10:36 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Not judging his roid use

I could care less whether or not he took HGH. That was a choice he made. What I have a problem with is misconstruing that choice with pinstriped blinders. He is a cheater and he knew it and there is no way to twist or deflect that into making what he did excusable or acceptable.

Fear the Evil Empire

by pfistyunc on Dec 17, 2007 10:48 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

It's about intent

Andy's intent wasn't to cheat the game. It was to get back as quickly as he could to his team. HGH wasn't banned, and he believed that it would help him return to his team quicker.

Painting him as a "cheater" isn't accurate. One needs to look at intent.

"Baseball is the background music of my life." -George Will

by Ronster22 on Dec 17, 2007 4:39 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs