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Ch-ch-ch-ch-changes

My apologies for the David Bowie reference, but major changes seem to be in order as a result of this latest disappointment and early exit from the postseason.  I'm not exactly going out on a limb to say that it's going to be a very busy week in the Bronx, beginning first thing tomorrow morning.

Here are some questions to ponder while we vent our frustrations:


1.)  Who will be managing the Yankees next season?

2.)  Will [Should] Brian Cashman keep his job as the GM?  If not, who should replace him?

3a.)  Will A-Rod be back?

3b.)  Posada?

3c.)  Mo?

3d.)  Pettitte?

3e.)  Abreu?

4.)  What other changes do you expect to see (or want to see) for next season?


A few of these questions may be answered within days (manager) or weeks (A-Rod), so we will not be lacking topics of discussion on PA anytime soon.

Shamefully, A-Rod is going to get most of the media coverage blame for his team's lackluster performance and it may be the final straw that drives him out of town.  What should not be overlooked is the fact that True YankeesTM Wang, Jeter, and Posada were all downright offensive in their own right.  Damon and Cano did okay, but that's about it for the rest of the Yankee offense.

It also doesn't help when only four Yankee pitchers were successful in getting opposing hitters out in the series (Pettitte, Hughes, Chamberlain, and Mo).

As for the ALCS, all I can say is Go Tribe!  I no longer care what happens the rest of the season as long as the Red Sox aren't the last team standing at the end of October.

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Bad Karma
To be typing that up while the game was still going on.

by matthaggs on Oct 8, 2007 11:45 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

For the record....
I started writing it yesterday in the 4th inning and finished the rest tonight in the 9th inning.

by anaconda on Oct 9, 2007 1:03 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Too soon for that discussion
but for the record, this is exactly what I said would happen.

Anyone else have a sickening feeling that the Red Sox are going to destroy the Indians?

Fear the Evil Empire

by pfistyunc on Oct 8, 2007 11:47 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Sorry but please link
to where you said that Wang and the Yankee offense suck.
Everything looks nicer when you win. The girls are prettier. The cigars taste better. The trees are greener. --Billy Martin

by garp on Oct 8, 2007 11:48 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I know you aren't very bright
so I will repeat myself yet again. Right after they lost to Detroit, I stated that this same shit would happen again next year. The Yanks would use their glorified softball lineup to pound their way into the playoffs, then get quickly dispatched by a playoff team with superior pitching. Let's see....oh wait, that is exactly what happened.

As for Wang, I didn't that shit coming, but I can't say I am all that surprised. He isn't an ace.

Fear the Evil Empire

by pfistyunc on Oct 8, 2007 11:54 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Fact is that you have criticized
every facet of this team so it goes without saying that if they lost, one of those factors would be the reason. The fact is that had Wang pitched like Wang (not an ace but decent) they would have won those games and be moving ahead.
Everything looks nicer when you win. The girls are prettier. The cigars taste better. The trees are greener. --Billy Martin

by garp on Oct 9, 2007 12:02 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Wang
Again, I fully admit that no one saw that coming, but are you really going to try and tell me that the offense tightening up and failing surprised you?
Fear the Evil Empire

by pfistyunc on Oct 9, 2007 12:05 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Can't be surprised at the offense
since we have seen this shit for four years now but it does put a spike in that talk of handing ARod the keys to the vault.
Everything looks nicer when you win. The girls are prettier. The cigars taste better. The trees are greener. --Billy Martin

by garp on Oct 9, 2007 12:10 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

If we have seen it for four years
then why is everyone crucifying me for expecting this to have happened based upon those last few years. It is too early to tell about next year's team, but if they make the playoffs again, is it that bizarre to think that this same shit will happen again?
Fear the Evil Empire

by pfistyunc on Oct 9, 2007 12:15 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well mainly because Igawa,
Farnsworth, Cairo and Pavano had nothing to do with this loss.

Also, I don't remember you being one of the "let ARod walk" supporters.

Everything looks nicer when you win. The girls are prettier. The cigars taste better. The trees are greener. --Billy Martin

by garp on Oct 9, 2007 12:20 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Anything but
I am an ardent A-Rod supporter and I think it would be a tragic mistake to let him go.
Fear the Evil Empire

by pfistyunc on Oct 9, 2007 12:26 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Interesting. So if they spend all
this extra money to resign him in the off season, they would be improved how exactly? $300M payroll?
Everything looks nicer when you win. The girls are prettier. The cigars taste better. The trees are greener. --Billy Martin

by garp on Oct 9, 2007 12:39 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Actually
taking the best player in baseball out of the lineup will probably have a negative effect on the offense. Just a hunch.
Fear the Evil Empire

by pfistyunc on Oct 9, 2007 7:10 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well it certainly won't have a
negative effect in the playoffs since he practically takes himself out of the lineup every year. By all means keep him, but this talk of giving him whatever he wants is stupid. He is not worth $30+M per.
Everything looks nicer when you win. The girls are prettier. The cigars taste better. The trees are greener. --Billy Martin

by garp on Oct 9, 2007 10:56 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I agree with that
They need to try and retain him, but they also need to have some limits. A 10 year, 300M deal for a 32 year old is crazy.
Fear the Evil Empire

by pfistyunc on Oct 9, 2007 11:39 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Crazy
for any other 32 year old.  He'll probably hold up well over the ten years and may, as Boras says in the NYT article, set new records for homeruns and hits.  Over the ten years he would most likely have several (one hopes) chances to redeem his post season mediocrity.  One should probably take into account, when considering the size of Arod's contract, the value of the Yankees "owning" this history as well as "owning" the making of these records.  The Yankees will continue to benefit from his career in Pinstripes long after Arod's contract is up.

by costa on Oct 10, 2007 12:29 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Excuse me
How many hits did the Yanks have in the series?

How many hits did Arod have?

He didn't have a great series, he had an average series.  The pitchers for Cleveland.  Let's complain about something else and resign our star.

Like it or not, we need him.

Let's hit the gym and get ready for spring.

by Cbeck3 on Oct 9, 2007 10:44 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

No
If you read what Boras is saying in the Times it sounds like he wants the deed to the new stadium and a piece of the YES network.  

There has to be a point where you tell this guy to enjoy life in Anaheim.

I know Posada and Mo are lesser players, but what kind of signal does it send if they let Boras fill out a blank contract then play hardball with a hall of famer and the guy who might have been the most irreplaceable Yankee this year?  

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/09/sports/baseball/10boras.html?hp

by matthaggs on Oct 9, 2007 10:54 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Not at $30M for ten years...
No other team that has won the WS the past 10 years has needed him so why do the Yankees? The Yankees are bigger than ARod.
Everything looks nicer when you win. The girls are prettier. The cigars taste better. The trees are greener. --Billy Martin

by garp on Oct 10, 2007 12:11 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Mmm,
the arrogance in this post is palpable.

The Yankees will not make the playoffs without A-Rod. Bank on it.

by Willton on Oct 10, 2007 12:15 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Wow...
You finally said something intelligent.

Amazing.

by AKJoe on Oct 10, 2007 2:30 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well
Everyone hammers the Yankees for giving Giambi too many years and too much money.

I know they are vastly different players, but I don't care how well ARod takes care of himself, the Yanks will regret paying a guy $30M a year when he's in his 40's.  Unless ARod goes the Barry Bonds route, he'll be a shell of his current self 7 years from now.

Keep the current deal, offer a 4 year, $120M extension. Five years $150 max. With the Texas savings still in place that's a more than reasonable deal for both sides. If he says no, tell him thanks for the memories.

And the Yanks could absolutely make the playoffs without him.  They did it in '03, and advanced farther than they ever did with his a(not that I'm blaming him or anything).

by matthaggs on Oct 10, 2007 10:07 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

The '03 Yankees
also had a younger Mussina, a healthy and effective Clemens, a dominant hitter in Giambi, and an excellent hitter in Nick Johnson. Where are the equivalents of those players on the 2007 Yankees?

by Willton on Oct 10, 2007 12:21 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Nick Johnson? I'm pretty sure the Yanks
get get one of those for less than $33M per year.
Everything looks nicer when you win. The girls are prettier. The cigars taste better. The trees are greener. --Billy Martin

by garp on Oct 10, 2007 12:29 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Perhaps,
but that one player will not make Clemens, Mussina, or Giambi younger and more effective. A-Rod compensates for all three of their shortcomings compared to their likenesses in 2003.

by Willton on Oct 10, 2007 12:32 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well
We're talking about the 2008 Yankees.

Giambi had a big regular season, but he was a broken down mess in the postseason of '03.  He batted 7th in Game 7 (granted he hit two homeruns), and he couldn't play in Florida.

He can be replaced.  In fact, he can replace himself. He's healthier now than he has been since then.

I see your Nick Johnson and I raise you Robinson Cano. Soriano would have been the guy for you to mention.

Pettitte will be back, and he's not much different than the '03 version.  And in Joba and Hughes, the Yankees actually have guys (esp. Joba) who can flat out dominate a lineup in a playoff game, which hasn't happened since Clemens in 2001 (vs. Seattle and then vs. The Mets).

In Damon the '08 team will have a better leadoff hitter, and if Abreu returns he is better than the cast of mopes who played RF in '03 (Karim Garcia anyone?)

The world will not end if ARod plays elsewhere. It didn't end in Seattle, and it won't end here.

That said, I would very much like him back.

by matthaggs on Oct 10, 2007 12:56 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

That's what's missing...
Nick fucking Johnson.

by AKJoe on Oct 10, 2007 1:53 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Interesting...so you think ARod
is bigger than the Yankees. I guess George should just put ARod in the will and give him the whole team when he goes.
Everything looks nicer when you win. The girls are prettier. The cigars taste better. The trees are greener. --Billy Martin

by garp on Oct 10, 2007 10:37 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Please point
to where I said that A-Rod is bigger than the Yankees. I dare you.

by Willton on Oct 10, 2007 12:15 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I said that the Yankees were
bigger than ARod. You said it was arrogant of me to say that. You either agree with me or you don't. If you don't, then obviously that must mean you think he is bigger than the Yankees.
Everything looks nicer when you win. The girls are prettier. The cigars taste better. The trees are greener. --Billy Martin

by garp on Oct 10, 2007 12:22 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

You were arrogant
for thinking that the Yankees don't need A-Rod to win the WS because the last 10 WS winners did not have A-Rod as a player. Without A-Rod, the Yanks would not have reached the playoffs this year, much less won the World Series. To think that this team is big enough to withstand the loss of A-Rod and still reach the playoffs is lunacy.

by Willton on Oct 10, 2007 12:30 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I agree that
the Yankees don't need A-Rod to win the WS. Does that make me arrogant?

I'd like to have a little better understanding of why you think this team cannot withstand the loss of A-Rod and still reach the playoffs.

I always feel pressure. What I don't have is fear. -- El Duque

by LateInningRelief on Oct 10, 2007 12:36 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

You'd be right if the Yankees replaced
ARod with nobody and every time there was a play at third no one would be covering. Sorry but the Yankees made the playoffs many times without ARod and have never won a WS with him. In fact no team has ever won a WS with ARod. Not saying that was ARod's fault but no team has ever needed him to win a WS. That's just a fact.

Texas and Seattle both improved when he left. You are assuming that the FO will do nothing if he goes. That is lunacy.

P.S. Your last sentence there could be construed to mean that you think ARod is bigger than the Yankees by the way.

Everything looks nicer when you win. The girls are prettier. The cigars taste better. The trees are greener. --Billy Martin

by garp on Oct 10, 2007 12:58 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Anything can happen in a short series
The offense's failures in the postseason were not because of its construction. On the contrary, the offense did a fine job against Sabathia by being patient and getting him out of the game early. The reason the offense did not score many runs was because they were not hitting the ball "where they ain't." That's not a failure of the offense; that's baseball.

I also find it a little intellectually dishonest to say that the Yankee's "softball" lineup lead to their demise in the playoffs when the Indians employed a similar type of lineup.

by Willton on Oct 9, 2007 12:22 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Softball lineup
My term softball lineup refers to Cashman's "fuck it we'll just outscore them" theory of building a bullpen and rotation.
Fear the Evil Empire

by pfistyunc on Oct 9, 2007 7:11 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Firstly
The end result is exactly what you said would happen, but how it happened and the people you blame for it happening couldn't be further away from your billions of doomsday predictions.

Secondly, the Tribe has CC and Fausto ready to roll.  Dice K and Wakefield suck, and Okajima looks shaky.  It will be a long series. Boston might win on the strength of Beckett, but it won't be easy. The Tribe should skip Westbrook.

by matthaggs on Oct 8, 2007 11:52 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Nice try
but once again your Mr. Pretzel effort lacks credibility. Right after they lost to Detroit, I stated that this same shit would happen again next year. The Yanks would use their glorified softball lineup to pound their way into the playoffs, then get quickly dispatched by a playoff team with superior pitching. Let's see....oh wait, that is exactly what happened.
Fear the Evil Empire

by pfistyunc on Oct 8, 2007 11:55 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

ALCS
I hope you are right and it wouldn't be a total shock to see Cleveland win, but unlike their Yankee counterparts, the Boston offense isn't afraid of October.
Fear the Evil Empire

by pfistyunc on Oct 8, 2007 11:58 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

ahhhh
You've hit it right on the head there. The #1 reason the Sux are a good postseason team and we haven't been recently. Any ideas why they aren't bitches in the postseason?
"It's great to be young and a Yankee"

by stillmonster on Oct 9, 2007 10:03 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

they don't make it
every year, so they beat a team they matched up well against . Big f'n deal.
 it doesn't make them world beaters.
The tribe will give them fits.

by beantownbosoxh8er on Oct 9, 2007 11:25 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Not true
If you had stuck with one prediction all along, I'd give you credit.  

But you can't make a dozen wrong predictions throughout the season and then pat yourself on the back when one turns out to be right.

That's like filling out a dozen brackets with a dozen different champions for March Madness.

by anaconda on Oct 8, 2007 11:54 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I have already explained myself on this
on an earlier post. Go ahead and look it up, although this time do it without changing what I typed like you have done in the past.
Fear the Evil Empire

by pfistyunc on Oct 8, 2007 11:56 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

A nice low blow
since it is impossible for me to edit comments.  Not even my own.

I'd recommend that you ask Jscape or Amato if you don't believe me.

by anaconda on Oct 9, 2007 12:00 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

How is that a low blow?
You know where I stand on that issue and there is no need to rehash it again. It was shady. Disagree at your leisure.  
Fear the Evil Empire

by pfistyunc on Oct 9, 2007 12:02 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

The low blow
was the false accusation that I've edited comments in the past, which is impossible for me to do.  Nobody in SB Nation has that ability (administrators, moderators, etc).

I can delete an entire comment, which I've done with trolls causing a nuisance, but that's it.

by anaconda on Oct 9, 2007 12:07 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Anaconda's right.
The only thing moderators can edit are diary posts. Pfisty's censorship theories are unwarranted.

by Willton on Oct 9, 2007 12:11 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Understood
but selective deletion within a thread is a way to alter one's comments.
Fear the Evil Empire

by pfistyunc on Oct 9, 2007 12:13 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I have no idea
what you're talking about because that never happened either.

The source of your information couldn't be more wrong.

Hey, we can agree to disagree on the other stuff.  But I don't appreciate these unwarranted conspiracy theories.

You are the last person who should be complaining of PA moderators prohibiting you from speaking your mind.

Look, we don't want to go down this road.  If you want to further address this issue, drop me an email.

by anaconda on Oct 9, 2007 12:21 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Not about me
My posts weren't involved so I don't have a real beef. I just wouldn't be surprised if my earlier posts were inaccurately portrayed.
Fear the Evil Empire

by pfistyunc on Oct 9, 2007 12:28 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

It has never happened
despite your source who says it did.  I don't play that game.

by anaconda on Oct 9, 2007 12:35 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

If your "predictions" were of any value,
people would remember them correctly and give you credit for them without you asking for it. We don't need to hear any more of your "this is exactly what I said would happen" arrogance.

by Willton on Oct 9, 2007 12:38 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

And your explanation
is as weak as all of your predictions:

Dice K will be awesome - WRONG

JD Drew will make Boston's offense great: WRONG

The Yanks will lose to the Sox by 10 games: WRONG

Detroit will win the Wild Card: WRONG

The Yankees season is over, they have no chance to make it (many times): WRONG

If you have so many stupid predictions, I guess one of them might be half right.  Nice job, congrats.

And please write down for all of us how Paul Byrd is a superior pitcher to Chien Ming Wang.  

Yes, Cleveland has pitchers that are better than some or most of the Yankee pitchers, but the Yankee pitchers went pitch for pitch with them in Game 2, and we couldn't hit Paul fuckin' Byrd tonight.  They couldn't hit good pitchers, they couldn't hit bad pitchers (except for Westbrook - and that was aided by Trot in RF.) They couldn't hit shit.  That was the problem.  

by matthaggs on Oct 9, 2007 12:04 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Get out your Twister mat, everyone!
Dice K will be awesome - never said that, what I did say was that he was a great signing for the price and that Boston was smart to sign him.

JD Drew will make Boston's offense great: Never said that either. I said that the combo of Drew/Lugo was a significant upgrade over Nixon/Gonzalez. Even with both of those guys have down years, that is still true.

The Yanks will lose to the Sox by 10 games: Still surprised that one didn't happen since they are a significantly better team than the Yanks right now. I guess I didn't foresee injuries to Manny, Ortiz and shit years from Lugo and Drew.

Detroit will win the Wild Card: Admittedly wrong there. I expected them to get a bigger boost from Zumaya and Rogers and that was also before Sheff got hurt.

The Yankees season is over, they have no chance to make it (many times): As I have clarified a million times, to me making the wild card and getting bounced in the first round is just as beneficial as not making it. I abide by the Steinbrenner Doctrine in that regard.

You are right about the Yankee offense shitting the bed in the playoffs, just like I said it would.

Finally, my "I told you so" is based solely upon my prediction of what would ultimately happen to the Yanks this year. That was made days after Detroit bounced us and it was just as accurate then as it is now. I know everyone is pissed that the Yanks shit the bed again this year, but don't blame me for warning you all it was coming.

Fear the Evil Empire

by pfistyunc on Oct 9, 2007 12:12 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ha
You were practically massaging Dice K's balls, and cupping Theo's for signing him. And if you would still consider $100 million for that lemon a great signing I gotta consider the source when you rip into Cashman.  Christ even the Angels killed him. WRONG

You said the addition of JD Drew was another good signing by Theo, and his presence in the lineup would be significant (and that's paraphrasing you mildly).  WRONG AGAIN.

Refresh my memory on the Yankees record against Boston the last 10 times they played them. The Yanks match up perfectly against them. They beat them with Manny and without Manny, so don't play that card.

While you may abide by the Steinbrenner doctrine, that is not what you meant when you said several times, even after they recovered from the awful start, that they would not make the playoffs.

Sorry bro, but the only pats on the back you're gonna get are from yourself. Anything from Wang - ANYTHING, and just a few hits from the best hitters in baseball wins this series. Nice try though, I applaud your blind arrogance.

by matthaggs on Oct 9, 2007 12:25 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Your meager attempts to misconstrue my posts
are fun to read, but it is very hard to have a serious conversation when you can just "paraphrase" your way around anything of substance.
Fear the Evil Empire

by pfistyunc on Oct 9, 2007 12:30 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Nothing is misconstrued
If anything I understated your wild arrogance when you made all of the false prognostications chronicled above.  

I think most of PA would side with me. And since no one usually sides with me, I would take that as a sign that you are the one who is off base.

Keep trying to cram that square prediction into a circle.

by matthaggs on Oct 9, 2007 12:36 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

If your "predictions" were of any value,
people would remember them correctly and give you credit for them without you asking for it. We don't need to hear any more of your "this is exactly what I said would happen" arrogance.

by Willton on Oct 9, 2007 12:39 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Proud but bummed
I admit I wanted Joe, Cashman, Giambi, Pavano, Igawa, Farnsworth, Abreu and Mussina all gone throughout the season. Now that the season is over, I just want Giambi, Igawa, Pavano, Mussina gone. That likely won't happen.

I'm not a Torre loyalist, and I think he's terrible with the bullpen management, but to be honest I don't think Donnie is the answer, and I' not sure Girardi has the makeup to thrive in NYC. I think I want Torre to stay--but only because I don't see a suitable replacement at this time.

I think Abreu is likely to go--but I'd take him if the price dropped to say $12mill.

Arod, I heard David Justice say he believes Arod's going for the money--no surprise when Scot Boras is your agent. I'd make a serious run at him provided he wants to stay. Despite the fact that he'll never be a leader, the Yankees need Arod's bat and glove--plain and simple.

Stick with the youth, and try to build a reliable pen without Joba.

"Baseball is the background music of my life." -George Will

by Ronster22 on Oct 9, 2007 1:24 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

It's been a long time coming
  1. Joe is definitely gone. Although I think Girardi would be better, Mattingly's going to be the manager next year. Look for a mass exodus from the coaching staff as well.
  2. Cashman should be fired. But I suspect he'll keep his job.
  3. A-Rod, Posada, Rivera, and Abreu will be back. Pettitte will retire.
  4. Some decent middle relief. Maybe a reliable long reliever/spot starter...I'm expecting a starting rotation of Wang, Hughes, Joba, IPK, and Mussina (unfortunately).
Oh yeah, and can we cut Giambi? He's pretty damn worthless at this point.

by PsiFighter37 on Oct 8, 2007 11:47 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

PsiFi, you may be right, at least partially...
I agree Torre is probably gone.  Donny Baseball will probably be the one.  Prior to the Mutt's collapse I thought that Randolph might be called over, but not now.  As for Girardi, he may be the one.

Cashman will probably be gone.

A-Rod's out of here.  The other 3 will stay, but Posada will be moved to 1st.  Andy's gone too.

I like your rotation, but they've got to do something on the middle relief.

by GrandEd on Oct 9, 2007 8:23 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Management

If we are going to have change let it be significant. putting in Mattingly is no better than leaving Torre, since he has been his pupil. Lets not forget that Donny has never won a ring. He may be jinxed. Lets really clean up. If we want a former Yankee lets get PAUL O'NEILL. Now there is a winner!
"Sports don't build character, they reveal it." - Haywood Hale Broun.

by StrappedYankee on Oct 10, 2007 8:04 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

May be in the minority here.....
But I'd take them all back - including Torre.

I don't care who the manager or GM is - they can't make them HIT.  

And it was a miracle itself that they even made the playoffs........

by JARNJ3 on Oct 8, 2007 11:51 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

coming from someone
who has to live here with the fuck sticks that are the red sox fans I too say GO TRIBE!!!

  I believe that the staff will stay the same, only that Mattingly will be the skipper.
 Cashman stays- he didn't play.
A-rod,Mo, Rivera, Abreu,Pettitte all back.

I really think with this experience and the players the team/farm has there will be no glaring need....

by beantownbosoxh8er on Oct 8, 2007 11:56 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I would consider
actually having a bullpen to be a "glaring need"
Fear the Evil Empire

by pfistyunc on Oct 8, 2007 11:58 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't think so
I would take the bullpen from the second half ,add in the September call ups for the whole year.

  Hopefully the TJ kids can come and help by mid season.

by beantownbosoxh8er on Oct 9, 2007 12:00 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Bullpen in the second half?
Oh, you mean both reliable relievers, one of which will be in the rotation next year? Or perhaps you mean bringing back Farnsworth, the setup man who can't handle pressure, enter the game with runners on, pitch on back to back days or keep himself from putting his foot in his mouth?
Fear the Evil Empire

by pfistyunc on Oct 9, 2007 12:03 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

i forgot to
add Jorge and not to put in mo twice

by beantownbosoxh8er on Oct 8, 2007 11:58 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I feel your pain
I've gotta teach tomorrow in my smarmy suburban boston school and everyone is going to give me grief.  Whichever day it is that the Sox lose this series to the Indians can't come fast enough.

by mrljdavid on Oct 9, 2007 12:14 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

An unknown factor
is the possibility of players being alienated by the firing of their beloved manager and deciding to leave because of it.

I do think Torre's history; I think A-Rod is doubtful; Cashman probably stays; Abreu's option probably won't be picked up. The rest will probably stay unless they don't want to play for Joe's successor, who I think will be Girardi. Mattingly doesn't have the experience or the kickass attitude Steinbrenner will probably want in contrast to Torre. I think Bobby Valentine might be considered if Girardi doesn't get it.

by flipster on Oct 9, 2007 12:38 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re:
  1. Donnie Baseball
  2. Yes, Cashman will and should return. The good he's done for this team more than outweighs a handful of bad free agent signings. Without the influence he's had on the way the club operates, Hughes, Chamberlain and Kennedy would be long gone, traded away for more washed-up power hitters.
  3. I say A-Rod, Posada, Mo, Pettitte and Abreu all come back. I certainly think they all should.
  4. OK, maybe trading Matsui for Santana was a dumb idea. But I still think he's our best trading chit in that he carries a lethal bat but, because of how important Damon has become and how stuck we are with Giambi, is dispensable. We should trade him for pitching. It's hard to build bullpens because you really never know who's going to be reliable, but bolstering our bullpen has got to be priority number one. We need to call up our best prospects from the minors and add a couple of veterans who can actually anchor the pen. That plus a rotation of Wang, Pettitte, Hughes, Joba, Kennedy, with Moose as the long man and spot starter, and we're set up much better for next year than we were for this.

by DocBrown82 on Oct 9, 2007 12:30 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Wang
I'll never feel comfortable with this guy pitching a big game again.

Jeter was terrible this series.  His inability to go left on defense hurt almost as much as his bat.  The  Yanks should move him to right and let Bobby move on.

Posada should be moved to first.  Teams are fearless on the bases against us.  This is not the 90's Yanks that can allow cheap runs on things like small ball advances, and passed balls.

Keep A-Rod and keep him at third.  We've fucked with  this guy enough.

Trade Giambi, impossible I know, but maybe we could get Oakland to take him for something if we eat his money, maybe the damaged Harden?  If not cut him and eat the money.  He's bad, bad karma, much worse than Alex in my opinion.

Make Matsui the full time DH, and get him a first base glove.

Get Pettitte back at all cost.  No explanation needed.

Fill out the rotation with Hughes, Joba, IPK,  and if we can get him Santana, if not try for a one year John Smotlz, or Curt Schilling deal.  Either one is a huge upgrade over Moose.

Absolutely bring Mo back.  Again, no explanation needed.

 

"You play the game to win the game, and not to worry about what's on the back of the baseball card at the end of the year." - Paul O'Neill

by yankee come lately on Oct 9, 2007 12:46 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

No fucking way
I want to see Schilling in a Yankees uniform. No, no, no, no, no.

by DocBrown82 on Oct 9, 2007 12:49 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

plus..
..he's said he'd never pitch in a yankee uniform. he's old and washed up. we've had enough of old and washed up players. more melky/cano less matsui/clemens - that's the key to the future.

by BobbyNYC on Oct 9, 2007 11:08 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

As for Wang
I suspect he's not as healthy as he lets on. Despite a number of very good games he pitched for us in the intervening time, he hasn't looked right since that blowout in Toronto.

by DocBrown82 on Oct 9, 2007 12:51 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

If that's true, he should have said something...
Joe made him #1 because of his record. He should have given it to Andy.
Everything looks nicer when you win. The girls are prettier. The cigars taste better. The trees are greener. --Billy Martin

by garp on Oct 9, 2007 12:54 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

That's not how athletes think
No one wants to be the guy who says they can't come through for their team. They always think they can rise to the occasion no matter how spent they feel. Often they're right. (see Sock, Bloody)

by DocBrown82 on Oct 9, 2007 12:57 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Wang isn't hurt
He was topping off at 96mph--throwing the ball too hard, and not giving it enough time to sink. His arm is fine. Since the tail end of the season when he started to sputter abit I suspected a mechanical issue in his delivery.

I'm certain it'll get fixed, but I'd be looking at his balance at the top of his delivery, his stride and arm slot. It's one or more of those things. It's not a health issue with Wang.

"Baseball is the background music of my life." -George Will

by Ronster22 on Oct 9, 2007 1:14 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

What does "keep A-Rod" mean?
It's up to him if he wants to stay or go.
Everything looks nicer when you win. The girls are prettier. The cigars taste better. The trees are greener. --Billy Martin

by garp on Oct 9, 2007 12:53 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yes, but
we have the choice of offering him an exorbitant sum of money or letting him walk without putting up a fight. I choose the former.

by DocBrown82 on Oct 9, 2007 12:54 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

He already makes an exorbitant sum
of money so I have no idea how much you are talking about. If he opts out or expects a big raise, then let him walk.
Everything looks nicer when you win. The girls are prettier. The cigars taste better. The trees are greener. --Billy Martin

by garp on Oct 9, 2007 1:02 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Try to sign him
We all know he's not a leader, but we do need his bat and glove--unless we have a stud third baseman in AAA--someone along the lines of say, David Wright. Sadly, we have someone along the lines of Eric Duncan. Sign Arod.
"Baseball is the background music of my life." -George Will

by Ronster22 on Oct 9, 2007 1:27 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Smoltz signed an extension with Atlanta
and Schilling.....yuck, no way.
Fear the Evil Empire

by pfistyunc on Oct 9, 2007 7:12 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Shuffling
While we're shuffling the pieces on the board-
Arod to short, Jeter to left, Damon to DH, take Abreu's option, trade Matsui (Giambi if you can), sign Lowell to 3B.  What about 1B- are people now satisfied with Minky?  I saw someone last night comparing him to Brosius, Tino, Paulie, and Knoblauch (I assume the good incarnation of the latter.)  Put Andy back there when he's recovered?  Or re-sign and move Posada to 1B and somehow find another catcher?  Has Posada even said whether he wants to move to 1B?

by SP on Oct 9, 2007 9:01 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

What about?
Jeter to 2nd.
Cano to 3rd.
AROD to Shortstop.

by AKJoe on Oct 9, 2007 12:58 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

go rockies
baseball is mostly dead to me now, but i would take much joy in watching a team like the rockies beat the red sox. i will not actively root for the indians, hell no. best case scenario would be that both they and the red sox lose.

by narcpress on Oct 9, 2007 1:07 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Dancing with the stars
Monday and Tuesday nights, baybee!
"Baseball is the background music of my life." -George Will

by Ronster22 on Oct 9, 2007 1:28 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Another quasi-random thought
We shouldn't be pointing so many fingers at the offense. Each of the last three years, we've gone into the postseason with a hollowed-out shell of a pitching staff. Our offense will do well when they have faith that their pitchers will keep them in the game. When hitters believe it's on their shoulders to save the season because the pitching can't be counted on, that's a surefire recipe for failure. Our offense is fine. The priority is pitching.

by DocBrown82 on Oct 9, 2007 1:14 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

i dont know
yes the pitching needs to improve but:

a) 3 hits in 11 innings in game 2.
b) 2 runs off paul byrd in an elimination game.

pretty hard to not blame the offense at least 90% for this early playoff exit.

by Clutch like Leyritz on Oct 9, 2007 6:27 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

But my point is
that maybe if they felt that they could trust their pitching, they wouldn't all start pressing at the plate at the same time. Hitters are better when they are relaxed

by DocBrown82 on Oct 9, 2007 11:09 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Two random thoughts
Actually they are probably more pipe dreams:
  1. Do you think there is any chance they can convince Moose to accept a trade to an NL team, perhaps Philly?
  2. Damon or Matsui have to be traded because we are stuck with Giambi's bloated contract. Perhaps Seattle would take Matsui for one of their bullpen guys? If the Soriano trade was any indication, Bavasi can be fleeced.
Also, does anyone know if we need to decide on Abreu before or after A-Rod's opt-out date?
Fear the Evil Empire

by pfistyunc on Oct 9, 2007 7:17 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Matsui needs to go
Damon is too valuable a lead off hitter and his arm is hid in Left...We can get good value from the NL for Matsui...Maybe the Dodgers who need another hitter...

by John Amato on Oct 9, 2007 6:28 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Are we on a budget or not?
Many of the questions will depend on if it is realistic to increase the budget or not
  1. Joe is out, no debate. Mattingly is in, but not a given.
  2. Cashman stays, the youth movement is his baby, at least enough of his baby to save him
  3. A-Rod will be back at a cost but one I think we can live with in 2008-2011 but the impact on the team in 2012-1015 is more questionable.
With a bunch of young pitchers coming up the last thing you want is a new catcher - Posada must be back but I wouldn't give him more than 2 years.

Mo? Not as vaulable as he has been, it is more a question of the Yankees doing right by him. If he wants 2 years give him two years but adjust the salary. Try to give him an incentive based package.

Andy? I'd love to see him back, especially on a 1 year deal. That gives you an option when Mussina breaks down, an option that isn't called Igawa...

Abreu? Nope. Melky, Damon and Matsui are good enough for me. If we could lose Giambi sure but we can't

4) Our biggest problem wasn't relief pitching, it was starting pitching. Both in the post season and in the regular season. The starting pitchers lasted 4-5 innings only far too often. That implied a much higher than reasonable call on teh bull penn. Now with 3 young starters lined up (if Pettitte or Mussina doesn't come back) and limits on their innings we really need more relief for 2008, but the underlying problem is starting pitching not lasting long enough. The problem is that relief pitchers aren't reliable in the first place, they don't gove you many innings per dollar. Farnsworth and Vizcaino combined for 140 innings and cost $8.5m. Pettitte gave us 215 innings and cost $16m. Compare the quaility and we can see why spending on relief pitching is a bad idea.

by TLVP on Oct 9, 2007 7:17 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Don't Change Much
Will diary on this later.  Basically Torre should go if it doesn't cost us Mo, Posada, and Pettitte.  Sign or promote a couple of relief pitchers and go to war with the army we have.

by stusviews on Oct 9, 2007 7:26 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I think
a play for Johan needs to be made.  One of the biggest, most glaring problems has been the lack of a bona fide ace.  Wang is not an ace, despite his 19 wins and sub-4 ERA.  He's a number 3, sorry to say.

I really don't know how to get Johan or who to trade for him, but I believe it's an imperative for this off-season.  He hates being in MIN and would probably love to be on a team that has a chance.

Just imagine a rotation of Johan, Pettitte, Wang, Hughes and Joba (notice no Moose - he needs to go someway, somehow; perhaps part of a Johan trade, if he'd agree?)

A-Rod must be kept at all costs.  He's vital to our offense.  

Abreau's option should be picked up for one more year, then that's it.  He could be used for trade bait, for the right player.

Posada should be signed, but we need to develop the next generation from within (which begs the question, who's in our system?)  

Mo should get two more years.

I suspect Girardi will be interviewed for the manager's job.  No telling on whether or not he'll take it, or if Mattingly feels that he's ready to assume command.  But Joe is definitely gone - and I'm sad about that, despite his misuse of the bullpen.  He's been the manager for a good long stretch, and has guided the team through some terrific - and not so terrific - years.  He'll be in the Hall of Fame for sure.  His number should also be retired, which I suspect it will be when all's said and done.  

Goodbye, Joe, and thanks for all the memories.

by docgonzo on Oct 9, 2007 7:33 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

This Johan crap has got to stop
The only thing more absurd than thinking that Matsui could be used to get Johan is thinking that Moose could be included in the package.
Fear the Evil Empire

by pfistyunc on Oct 9, 2007 8:01 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

what if matsui was included
matsui AND moose?  im sure the twins would jump at the opportunity...

by Clutch like Leyritz on Oct 9, 2007 8:08 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

look at from the other side
would YOU take matsui and mussina for santana? yeah, if lucabrasee held a gun to your head!

by glennszy on Oct 9, 2007 8:22 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think Clutch was kidding
Clearly the Twins would hold out for Giambi and Nieves.
Fear the Evil Empire

by pfistyunc on Oct 9, 2007 8:35 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

JOBA in the starting rotation
if i'm wrong i'm wrong but i think he's a closer and he could be a great one. does he give any impresion at all that he can even go six? why mess with a good thing. i don't see it

by glennszy on Oct 9, 2007 8:16 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

i'm still sick to my stomach
it sure does s*ck when we lose a playoff series

by glennszy on Oct 9, 2007 8:27 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Look at his minor league numbers
He had no problem going deep into games and he held his velocity.
Fear the Evil Empire

by pfistyunc on Oct 9, 2007 8:36 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Please
If you're not familiar with Joba's career, both professional and amateur, don't go making statements like you just did. The only reason Joba made it to the big league team in the pen is because he dominated as a starter in the minors this year.
River Ave. Blues
Yanks and prospects

by PinstripePowerhouse on Oct 9, 2007 10:11 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

can only go by what i saw
sorry i don't have his stats as a starter in college.......

by glennszy on Oct 9, 2007 12:43 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Don't need them
His minor league stats would do just fine in disproving your statement.
Fear the Evil Empire

by pfistyunc on Oct 9, 2007 1:02 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Start here
http://web.minorleaguebaseball.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?n=Joba%20Chamberlain&pos=P&sid=milb& amp;t=p_pbp&pid=501955

Joba made it to AAA as a starter before getting switched to relief. 7 starts at A, 7 at AA, and 1 at AAA.  He doesn't have a ton of IP because he was on very strict pitch counts and innings limits.

But check out his batting average against (under .200) and his ridiculous K:BB ratios.

He should be a starter next year.

"Have faith in the Yankees, my son. Think of the great DiMaggio."

by jscape2000 on Oct 9, 2007 2:13 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

1. Who will be managing the Yankees next season?
Just read in the daily news that Tony LaRussa's name is being thrown around.  I cannot stress how horrible of an idea this is.  I've watched him manage in St. Louis for over a decade.  He can't handle the softball St. Louis media so I would love to see how one of his fits go over in New York.  Also, LaRussa and Dave Duncan have a horrible track record with young pitchers.  Please don't subject Joba, Hughes, Kennedy, et. al. to them.  The successful pitcher TLR and Dunc have brought up through the system?  Matt Morris, that's it.

by stlyankeefan on Oct 9, 2007 9:00 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

that's just rumor mill stuff
that would be the epitomy of a pointless lateral move. if he goes, and i do not want to see it, they definitly stay in house.

by glennszy on Oct 9, 2007 10:01 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Torre
I think the Yankees are going to call a big board meeting to decide Torre's fate.  Just as Steinbrenner is ready to decide, ARod is going to walk in.

Cashman:
What can I do for you Arod?

Arod:
I got something to say

(steps to podium)

I don't know if it'll make a difference, but I've decided to play ball for the Yankees again.

(big applause)

But there's just one thing.  I play, Coach stays.  He goes I go.  

Toronto skank:

I think we should vote again!

Why can't life be more like Hoosiers?

by matthaggs on Oct 9, 2007 10:06 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I always imagined more of a "Tor-re"
chant like in Rudy.
Fear the Evil Empire

by pfistyunc on Oct 9, 2007 10:19 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

That works too
They could all lay their jerseys on Steinbrenner's desk.

Probably get a calzone stain on them.

by matthaggs on Oct 9, 2007 10:23 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I understand why the Boss
is getting impatient with this team since he doesn't have a lot of time left and has invested a lot of dough in his quest for another ring.

However, it seems to me that letting Torre go could end up being very very counterproductive in the pursuit of his ultimate goal because of the other dominoes that may also fall as a result.

This team will be fine in the long run if they execute the current plan by injecting youth into the rotation starting with Joba, Hughes, and perhaps Kennedy.  

The rotation is the primary reason why this team hasn't been back to the World Series since 2003 and I don't see a significant dismantlement as the solution to the problem.

by anaconda on Oct 9, 2007 10:21 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Doesn't matter who they have manage
until Cashman goes, whoever they pick as manager won't matter all that much.
Fear the Evil Empire

by pfistyunc on Oct 9, 2007 10:23 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

It could....
if the free agents to be decide to follow suit and leave town as well.

I don't think we should underestimate the loyalty between Torre and his players and I think there is some substance to the argument of a "mass exodus."

We'll know some of the answers to these questions soon enough.

by anaconda on Oct 9, 2007 10:33 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Jorge and Mo
have only ever played for Torre.  But why would they skip town to play for someone else?  So long as they don't hate the manager they'll be comfortable in NY.
Now if Torre gets a job someplace, then I'll worry.
"Have faith in the Yankees, my son. Think of the great DiMaggio."

by jscape2000 on Oct 9, 2007 11:20 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Mo played for Showalter too
but I get your gist.  

I think the odds of them leaving are slim, but it's not impossible.  

by anaconda on Oct 9, 2007 11:29 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

asdf
The Yankees should higher Michael Showalter as their manager. At least next year would be hilarious.

by malkmusisgod on Oct 9, 2007 12:41 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

IF possible...
..and i recognize that it's probably not.. we should try to ship out: giambi, abreu, matsui and farnsworth. build the team around the youngsters (cano/melky) and try to keep Mo, Jorge and Arod.

by BobbyNYC on Oct 9, 2007 12:29 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Abreu should stay
He's affordable if we pick up the option. And he seems to get along very well with Cano and Cabrerra

by malkmusisgod on Oct 9, 2007 12:40 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

The biggest issue isn't
whether A-Rod, Posada, Torre, Cashman & Mo stay or go. It's whether we can build a real rotation.

We can't really beat up on the offense for this series. Look back at all the WS teams in the 90s. They won with less run support because we could win a 1-2 run pitching duel.

I'm less concerned with keeping A-Rod than getting a real ace. Last year we had a thunderous lineup. Big deal. I don't think we're ready to build an offense around Cano and Cabrera, but we really cannot go into 2008 expecting Wang, IPK, Hughes and Chamberlain to carry most of the load.

It'd be great to get Pettitte back, but he's not the guy. Santana, Sabbathia, Lackey, Peavey & Penny are all free agents following next season. Can we put together any trade packages that will land us one of these guys?

I always feel pressure. What I don't have is fear. -- El Duque

by LateInningRelief on Oct 9, 2007 1:47 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Lackey can't pitch at
Fenway so take a pass on that.
Everything looks nicer when you win. The girls are prettier. The cigars taste better. The trees are greener. --Billy Martin

by garp on Oct 9, 2007 2:05 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Right, 'cause that really matters
Lacky has pitched a grand total of 7 games in his entire career in Boston. You're going to honestly judge a guy based on his performance in 7 games at a rivals park, regardless of how well he's pitched in other ballparks? That's insane. The Yankees play more teams than just the Red Sox. The Yankees need to find pitchers that pitch well against a majority of teams, not just the Red Sox.

Lackey is an ace and the Yanks would be very fortunate to snare him from the Angels.

by Willton on Oct 9, 2007 3:58 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Let's see what kind of ace he is
in the next round against...oh wait. That's right. He got bombed.
Everything looks nicer when you win. The girls are prettier. The cigars taste better. The trees are greener. --Billy Martin

by garp on Oct 9, 2007 4:21 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'd hardly call
4 runs in 6 innings getting "bombed". I call it having a bad game.

You're going to discredit a Cy Young candidate because he's had bad luck in Boston. Amazing. I guess Santana sucks too because of his 6.89 ERA in Fenway. The Yanks should just go after Mark Mulder instead: he's clearly better than Lackey and Santana due to his 2.89 ERA in Fenway.... That makes total sense. <rolleyes>

by Willton on Oct 10, 2007 12:30 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Bad luck? Then I guess
Wang had "bad luck" in Cleveland and Igawa has just had "bad luck" everywhere.
Everything looks nicer when you win. The girls are prettier. The cigars taste better. The trees are greener. --Billy Martin

by garp on Oct 10, 2007 1:12 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Are you advocating
that Wang never pitch in Cleveland again because he's bad at pitching in Jacobs Field?

by Willton on Oct 10, 2007 12:24 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Uhm...no, but I am advocating
not making him the #1 starter in a playoff series anymore.
Everything looks nicer when you win. The girls are prettier. The cigars taste better. The trees are greener. --Billy Martin

by garp on Oct 10, 2007 1:59 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

As if
being the #1 starter vs. being the #3 starter in a playoff series does anything to his performance.

You seem to be forgetting that he had a quality start as the #1 pitcher in the 2006 ALDS and received a win as a result of it. I guess you have a really short memory. If you're going to judge a player based on his limited playoff experience (which I posit is a bad idea) then you should do it fairly.

by Willton on Oct 10, 2007 11:16 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Wow! Now you are arguing that Wang
is a #1. Make up your mind. Also, FYI the #3 starter does not face off against the other team's #1 so there is less pressure and also only goes once, not twice.

Lackey's had a great year but an ace? He'll have to deliver a few better seasons to rate that high.

Everything looks nicer when you win. The girls are prettier. The cigars taste better. The trees are greener. --Billy Martin

by garp on Oct 11, 2007 1:29 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

A few better seasons?
How good does the guy need to be? Look at his history:

http://www.baseball-reference.com/l/lackejo01.shtml

Are you telling me that a guy with a career ERA of 3.82, ERAs of 3.01, 3.56, and 3.44 the past 3 years, and over 200 innings in each of those years is not an ace? Are you kidding me?

If all you're doing is staring at wins and losses, then you clearly don't understand pitching. Wins and losses tell you nothing about a pitcher. Pitchers don't win and lose games; teams do.

by Willton on Oct 11, 2007 8:50 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Funny thing is if you take out
all the times he has wiped out the Yankees in the postseason, his stats are actually pretty bad. I guess it would be good to sign him just so that the Yanks won't have to face him anymore.
Everything looks nicer when you win. The girls are prettier. The cigars taste better. The trees are greener. --Billy Martin

by garp on Oct 11, 2007 10:46 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Uhm...look it up?
This year against Boston--not so good.
2005 against CWS - shelled.
2005 against Yankees - lights out.
2002 against Yankees - lights out.
2002  SFG - not an ace.
Everything looks nicer when you win. The girls are prettier. The cigars taste better. The trees are greener. --Billy Martin

by garp on Oct 11, 2007 12:09 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I find it very small-minded
to solely judge a pitcher on his postseason performance.

I also find it incredibly small minded to think that a pitcher is only good against the Yankees, and that we should judge a pitcher's postseason performance that selectively. Five games tell you absolutely nothing about a pitcher; three disjointed games tell you even less.

by Willton on Oct 11, 2007 2:40 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

How many disjointed posts
does it take to figure out that garp is an idiot?
Fear the Evil Empire

by pfistyunc on Oct 11, 2007 2:47 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well since everybody pretty much has
a small sample size in the post season I guess it is small minded to discuss how anyone does in the post season.
Everything looks nicer when you win. The girls are prettier. The cigars taste better. The trees are greener. --Billy Martin

by garp on Oct 11, 2007 3:51 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

With that said, if the Yankees
can get Paul Byrd and Jeff Weaver in the rotation, the World Series next year is in the bag.
Everything looks nicer when you win. The girls are prettier. The cigars taste better. The trees are greener. --Billy Martin

by garp on Oct 11, 2007 8:36 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Just when you thought his last post
was the most ridiculous thing he could muster, garp outdoes himself. People, our village idiot is truly fantastic.
Fear the Evil Empire

by pfistyunc on Oct 11, 2007 10:43 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

No, he just wants the last word.
He can't stand letting someone else finish the conversation.

by Willton on Oct 11, 2007 11:02 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I am starting to feel sorry for you...
because I don't want to imagine the unspeakably vile  acts that someone in authority did to you as a child to mold you into this wretched, stupid, humorless piece of shit of a human being.
Everything looks nicer when you win. The girls are prettier. The cigars taste better. The trees are greener. --Billy Martin

by garp on Oct 12, 2007 1:45 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

It was terrible
They tied me to a chair and made me listen to you all day. Oh the horror.

PS: I do appreciate you continuing to prove my point that you are in fact PA's village idiot. Notice no one jumping in to disagree? I like that it is really starting to bug you.

Fear the Evil Empire

by pfistyunc on Oct 12, 2007 7:48 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

So what happened, pussyboy?
Did they kick your ass out of that "better" forum? Or were you just hiding in your retarded room until the Yankees lost so you could start yelling "Cashtard" again?

Unlike you, I don't need anyone to defend me. When you made your very public exit from this site, all I saw was a whole lot of "Hosannas" and  "Good riddance!" from the masses. Too bad that you are such a fucking loser that you could not stand by your word and stay away. In fact I was right again in my prediction that you would be back as soon as the Yankees lost. Too bad that I could not have been wrong about that.

Everything looks nicer when you win. The girls are prettier. The cigars taste better. The trees are greener. --Billy Martin

by garp on Oct 12, 2007 10:38 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'll jump in
to disagree.

I cannot fathom why 20% of your posts gratuitously bash garp. Do you have a man-crush?

I always feel pressure. What I don't have is fear. -- El Duque

by LateInningRelief on Oct 12, 2007 12:10 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Not sure if you notice that Fisty
cannot tell when someone is joking. Besides that, he resents the fact that I don't forget all the stupid things he says.
Everything looks nicer when you win. The girls are prettier. The cigars taste better. The trees are greener. --Billy Martin

by garp on Oct 12, 2007 1:07 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Why even bother?
Why do you even bother arguing with garp? He is a fucking moron. You would be better off if you just brushed him off as the village idiot like the rest of us do.
Fear the Evil Empire

by pfistyunc on Oct 11, 2007 11:10 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Got kicked out of your "better"
discussion forum already? What a loser you are coming back here after all the shit you said. Nobody likes you, douche--not even your pussy father.
Everything looks nicer when you win. The girls are prettier. The cigars taste better. The trees are greener. --Billy Martin

by garp on Oct 11, 2007 11:16 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Thanks for proving my point
that you are a fucking moron. Not that your copious posts in this thread haven't already done that job for me. As for my views on PA, the game threads suck. That was my original point and that hasn't changed. The other stuff is still fun and worthwhile and a few of the regulars who aren't morons are back like Haggs and Econolodge. Unfortunately you are still around. I have been posting in both places.  
Fear the Evil Empire

by pfistyunc on Oct 11, 2007 2:47 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well at least we are in agreement
that your father is a pussy.
Everything looks nicer when you win. The girls are prettier. The cigars taste better. The trees are greener. --Billy Martin

by garp on Oct 11, 2007 3:33 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

As to Wang
I never said that he's a #1 pitcher or anything like that. I said that his pitching will not be affected by where he is slotted in a rotation. In a playoff series you start your best pitcher first, and the Yankees best pitcher in 2006 and 2007 was Chien Ming Wang, regardless of whether he fits your preconceived notion of what a #1 starter is.

by Willton on Oct 11, 2007 8:54 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

He was not there best pitcher by
the end of the season.
Everything looks nicer when you win. The girls are prettier. The cigars taste better. The trees are greener. --Billy Martin

by garp on Oct 11, 2007 10:37 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

By the way, you changed the subject
Your justification for not wanting John Lackey on the Yankees is still retarded.

by Willton on Oct 10, 2007 11:18 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Forgetting ...
You didn't mention Kennedy, who I think may be the catch of the bunch. I would take my chances with Wang, Pettitte, Joba, Kennedy, and Hughes--with Mussina as insurance.

But we've got more power arms on the way as well. What we need to do is stay the course. Cashman and company have restocked the shelves, and we need to see who fits where before packaging players for mega-$$$ pitchers.

Remember Maddux, Glavine, Smoltz and Avery??? I really think we have guys who can approach their collective level of greatness--provided we don't screw up and trade them away.

From what I understand, we've got good bullpen talent in the AA, AAA levels. Let's see what they've got come Spring.

"Baseball is the background music of my life." -George Will

by Ronster22 on Oct 9, 2007 2:13 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I totally agree that we don't
want to trade them away, but I think we need one legitimate, seasoned ace at the front end of the rotation to mentor these guys and take the pressure off. Wang should never have been expected to step into that role.
I always feel pressure. What I don't have is fear. -- El Duque

by LateInningRelief on Oct 9, 2007 2:59 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Leave the mentoring to the coaching staff
The Yankees don't need seasoned veterans. They need good pitchers, regardless of experience.

by Willton on Oct 9, 2007 4:02 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Fine forget mentoring
How about the guy who's going to take the pressure off the rooks? Is that gonna be Wang? He didn't do so great with the task.
I always feel pressure. What I don't have is fear. -- El Duque

by LateInningRelief on Oct 9, 2007 5:55 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

That's not his job
Wang's job is to pitch. Removing pressure from rookies should be the task of the rookies, not other pitchers.

by Willton on Oct 10, 2007 12:20 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Wrong:
Removing pressure from rookies is the task of the veterans.

Ancient rule of life.

I always feel pressure. What I don't have is fear. -- El Duque

by LateInningRelief on Oct 10, 2007 1:08 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Not worth a big $$$ vet
Mussina, Pettitte (hopefully), Rivera (hopefully) will be those guys mentoring. If Torre goes I suspect the staff will bolt--or at least most of them. I loved Guidry as a pitcher (as a lefty, I patterned my delivery after his), but he doesn't impress me as a pitching coach. I'd seriously try to land someone like Orel Hershiser. A veteran coach with incredible insight is another mentor.
"Baseball is the background music of my life." -George Will

by Ronster22 on Oct 10, 2007 3:16 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

This is actually the
beyond-the-looking-glass analysis. I agree that Guidry has gotten a free pass, largely because he's Guidry. I'd agree with going after Hershiser.

Even so, a big $$$ vet is, IMO, what stands between us and a rebuilding year.

And Moose may actually be a decent pitching coach one day, but he's so prickly as a competitor I don't know that he'd be a great mentor until he hangs up his cleats.

I always feel pressure. What I don't have is fear. -- El Duque

by LateInningRelief on Oct 11, 2007 2:55 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

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