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Michael Pineda: Looking Back and Looking Forward

The flame-throwing RHP brings a 95 MPH fastball to the Bronx and a lot of expectations after being swapped for uber-prospect Jesus Montero. I went through every one of his "condensed games" via MLB.tv to get a first hand look at who we were getting. This will be a scouting report/recap of Pineda's 2011 season and a list of ways he can improve going forward.

Star-divide

First off, he needs to work on his changeup. His fastball and slider are already plus pitches, but he did show a need for a legitimate third pitch. Too often batters were looking for his fastball, and major league batters can catch up to a mid-high 90s heater if they think it's coming. If the threat of a quality changeup were in the backs of their minds, it would make Pineda a far more rounded pitcher.

Speaking of the fastball, it's a tad straight. I'd love to see him learn a cutter and/or two-seamer to help nullify lefties and increase his sub-par groundball rate. (There's a guy in the Yankee bullpen that throws a pretty good cutter, BTW.)

His slider was like Jekyll and Hyde. At times it was a truly superb pitch with late and sharp break that made hitters look foolish. Other times it rolled toward the plate, often at the hitter's waist, and was expectedly crushed. He got away with a number of hanging sliders in the first half of the season (in which he had an unsustainably low .247 BABIP); that isn't going to fly in his sophomore year in the AL East.

That said, it didn't seem like he was helped much by pitching half his games at spacious Safeco Field. I know the stats says he was significantly better on the road, but I only a recall a handful of hits/outs that would've been more in Yankee Stadium. If anything, he seemed a bit more comfortable at home (his "stuff" and command looked better), so maybe it's just a mental thing.

One problem he had was in the first inning, where he had a 6.11 ERA. But he usually settled down after that: His ERA outside of the first inning was 3.23. So call it "jitters," or "re-learning" his mechanics (he's 6'7" after all, and it's often tougher for tall guys to keep their mechanics consistent); whatever it is, he'll hopefully learn and improve on it with a season's worth of pitching behind him. He'll also have fellow 6'7"-er, CC Sabathia, in the clubhouse, who could give him some pointers on keeping his delivery uniform.

He is just 23 years old, and therefore has time to make these adjustments. And even if he doesn't, his two-pitch arsenal is good enough to make him an effective pitcher. But the biggest issue is the changeup: He won't reach his massive potential without refining that pitch.

The reason his record was 9-10 (with a 3.74 ERA) was because he played for the offensively inept Mariners, who averaged 3.47 runs/game in support of Pineda. They were shut out thrice during his 28 starts.

* For comparison, the Yankees were shut out eight times in 162 games (for the mathematically disinclined, that was more than twice as often as the Bombers).

He's the player I'm both most excited and anxious about in 2012. If Montero lights it up in Seattle while Pineda struggles, get ready for a sh-t storm of finger-pointing and teeth-gnashing...

[Sources: BRef, FanGraphs]

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i agree
He’s the player I’m both most excited and anxious about in 2012. If Montero lights it up in Seattle while Pineda struggles, get ready for a sh-t storm of finger-pointing and teeth-gnashing…

Thats my feelings exactly, i know he has the potential to make a big difference for us having a legit #2, but you know if Montero starts out on fire and Pineda slumps a little bit out of the gate, a “sh-t storm” would be a kind way to explain the fallout

by GriffMan on Feb 7, 2012 10:31 AM EST reply actions  

That's the nature of things...

I still remember the “Austin Jackson is fast and super-awesome…how could we trade him for Curtis Granderson who can’t hit lefties” crowd having their way for most of 2010.

But in the long run I’d be really surprised if this move doesn’t work out to at least a wash for us.

by Let's Talk About Tex Baby on Feb 7, 2012 12:46 PM EST up reply actions  

Great comparison....

Jackson started 2010 on fire but has been no better than average since. Grandy gets better and better.

The worst thing people can do is judge this trade after 3 months of the season. Even after the season is over we wont know who won this trade.

Come back in 2016 for the result.

by PAC1318 on Feb 8, 2012 1:45 AM EST up reply actions  

gotta agree..

I’m pretty anxious myself. When I first saw the trade, and that Montero would be leaving I was not a happy camper. Like you said, if he does well in Seattle and Pineda struggles I will be pissed. However I am excited to see this kid’s stuff. My favorite part of the game is pitching, due to the fact that I was a pitcher in Little League all the way up through HS and College ball, so needless to say I am very excited, yet still reserving some anxiousness, to see this kid throw.

by shadyeagle25 on Feb 7, 2012 10:32 AM EST reply actions  

Agree as well.....

Great article. I do not know much about Pineda except his stats so this is enlightning. I may be one of the few people to admit that I have absolutely NO PROBLEM trading Montero for a flame throwing 23 year old 6ft 7 pitcher with huge upside. After all, that’s all Montero was in that he is a prospect with huge upside (sorry….60 at bats is not enough to guarantee his success). The difference being it is so hard to get your hands on a great young pitcher compared to a DH (or longshot chance at a Catcher). We can always fill in the DH spot with solid hitting veterans, but unless you want to spend $100 million plus for overpriced pitching, to get a quality young pitcher with his upside is well worth the risk. Keeping my expectations reasonable, if just one of the Killer B’s pans out to be legit, a rotation of CC, Pineda, Nova, Banuelos for the next 5 years sounds amazing! Imagine if both B’s pan out. We will have 4 great pitchers (if they pan out) under the age of 27 all at low costs (allowing us to sign the big name hitters that Montero may (or may not) have been for us).

by The Dirty South on Feb 7, 2012 11:22 AM EST reply actions  

This is how I knew you know goose egg about Pineda

“Speaking of the fastball, it’s a tad straight.”
His fast ball is actually 3 different fast balls in one. He has filthy movement (rise & sink) on his fast ball(s), in fact the Rays bloggers at DRayBays couldn’t define them.

http://www.draysbay.com/2012/1/14/2706951/scouting-michael-pineda-new-york-yankees

by 2112Fortuna on Feb 7, 2012 1:34 PM EST reply actions  

No, he doesn't.

Compared to, say, Phil Hughes (who’s considered to have a very straight FB), Pineda’s four-seamer has only 1/2 an inch more horizontal movement and 2.5 inches less vertical movement.

And he only threw about 8% cutters and two-seamers combined, so those are certainly not a significant part of his arsenal. [via Joe Lefkowitz]

by Travis G on Feb 7, 2012 4:24 PM EST up reply actions  

A fastball that rises only exists in softball.

Contributing writer for Pinstripe Alley.
Follow me on Twitter @frankiecamp48

by Frank Campagnola on Feb 8, 2012 12:43 PM EST up reply actions  

The problem with any pitcher is getting by when one pitch isn't working.

Young pitchers especially tend to get lit up because they haven’t learned to spot their fastball, or to take just a little bit off to unbalance hitters. They then try to throw the pitch that hasn’t been working in spots where they won’t killed if it continues to miss.

I agree that in the long run we won’t be sorry we made this deal. Pineda has a better chance of becoming a stud for 12 years than Montero does of becoming a 120 game per year catcher. If both of them become all stars, I would still be happy with the deal.

by designatedquitter on Feb 7, 2012 2:36 PM EST reply actions  

I'm excited about Pineda.

He’ll help to sure up our rotation, and I’m sick of Burnett’s Jekyl and Hyde act.

Although, I’m still kind of pissed about trading Montero.

"When my time on Earth is gone, and my activities here are past, I want they bury me upside down so all my critics can kiss my a**"- Bob Knight

"Talent is God-given, be grateful. Fame is man-given, be humble. Conceit is self-given, be careful."- John Wooden

"Never take anything for granted. Don't forget, great prices have been paid and will be paid again if you become too smug, too egotistical and self-assured."- Johnny Cash

by JumpinJackFlash on Feb 7, 2012 4:21 PM EST reply actions  

Alot of your observations are kind of off

People have already noted (an excellent article on DRaysbay is one of the best on Pineda) that Pineda doesn’t throw just one type of FB, there is actual evidence that he throws both a cutter and Two seamer, to go along with his slider. And your complaint about his 2nd half is unwarranted, he struck out more batters, his walk rate remained stable, and when his slider or any of his other pitches were hit they were more likely to be GB’s than his first half (GB’s carry higher Babip’s than flyballs and that explains why it rose)

by Yankees199 on Feb 7, 2012 5:23 PM EST reply actions  

Also

look at this, these are all of Pineda’s hits in Safeco juxtaposed over Yankee Stadium

by Yankees199 on Feb 7, 2012 5:32 PM EST up reply actions  

This might help.

I'm a bad example for the kids at home according to people on the Internet.
#JEDI4PSA

by Jedi Master A-Rod on Feb 7, 2012 6:24 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Maybe you missed

this part of that article,

Edit: After some interesting arbitrary endpoints tweeted by Mark Simon at ESPN, I’ve rethought my classifications, and changed them around a bit. The result is more four seam fastballs at the result of two seam fastballs and cutters.

and this comment from the author. He may throw some cutters & 2-seamers, but it’s such a small percentage to almost be insignificant.

My comment about his first/second half stands: A .247 BABIP is unsustainable over a long period of time. Even FIP said his second half was worse.

by Travis G on Feb 10, 2012 6:25 PM EST up reply actions  

To the guy who is pissed about Montero

What would you say if the script was reversed? If Pineda came up in the Yankees system and had the rookie season he had for us would you want to trade him to seattle for a DH? No you wouldn’t. If Pineda came up through our system he would be the most loved prospect of my lifetime (21). Would it make any sense for the yankees to trade away a cheap ace caliber pitcher after his rookie season? The yanks also essentially turned Noesi into a top 10 draft pick.

The most strikeouts in their Age 22 season or younger in the Divisional Era (since 1969):

1984 Dwight Gooden (276)
1998 Kerry Wood (233)
1969 Tom Griffen (200)
1986 Bobby Witt (174)
2011 Michael Pineda (173)

"There is no substitute for victory" - Douglas Macarthur

by 2112Fortuna on Feb 7, 2012 7:30 PM EST reply actions  

Thankyou. People lose perspective of players values just because they came up with your organization. Sure it sucks to see them leave when you’ve watched them grow up and develop for years but man can you imagine if Pineda came up with the Yankees and the roles were reversed and we dealt him for Montero??? All the same people that HATE getting Pineda for Montero would HATE the deal even more getting Montero for Pineda. How could an unbiased person hate the deal both ways? It’s comical. Stop losing perspective people and overrating players just because they are from your franchise.

by cermolaNY2 on Feb 8, 2012 11:21 PM EST up reply actions  

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