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Yankees Prospect Roulette: Manny Banuelos

UPDATE: The first poll has now closed. Here are the results:

Prospect A: 53% (139 votes)

Prospect B: 47% (123 votes)

Based on 262 votes

Additional information and a new poll has been posted after the jump.

Let’s have a little fun today with something I like to call "Prospect Roulette". This edition focuses on pitching prospect Manny Banuelos.

Here is how the game will work:

- I will post complete scouting reports for two comparable left-handed prospects, in this case Banuelos, and a similar prospect from another organization. The reports will not feature names, simply ‘Prospect A’ and ‘Prospect B’.

- I’ll include opinions from scouting outlets to give you an idea of how the industry feels about each player. I won’t divulge what outlets I’m using initially (to maintain anonymity).

- After sifting through the information provided, you’ll have an opportunity to vote for which pitcher you’d rather have in the Yankees organization.

- I’ll allow five hours of discussion, debate, and voting on the prospects before closing the first poll.

- I’ll then provide the names of each prospect, specific sources I cited, and further analysis and opinion. I'll then set up a new poll using player names, to see if opinions change or stay the same.

Interested in playing? Then step right up! Check your biases at the door and get ready to place your bets. You're about to enter the high stakes world of "Prospect Roulette".

Star-divide

Now that you’ve made the decision to play, here are a few more details. These prospects are very similar, and you really have to split hairs to put one over the other. That said, the reports I’m about to provide will paint a picture that has notable differences, which hopefully should allow you to make an informed decision.

Let’s get to the reports…

Prospect A

Will be 21 years old for the duration of the 2012 season, and is around six feet tall and 180 pounds. He features a fastball that sits in the low-to-mid 90s and can touch 96, and throws a power curve in the 79-80 mph range. He shows good deception and fade on his changeup, with little difference in arm action compared to his fastball. His fastball and curveball grade out as plus offerings, while his changeup flashes above average potential.

Has a huge strikeout arsenal. His mentality is to strike every batter out rather than pitch to contact, causing him to rack up high pitch counts. Erratic mechanics are a problem and also lead to walks. Still learning to get right handed batters out, and has showed difficulty locating his pitches against them. Durability is not a concern thanks to his sound delivery.

He has frontline stuff if he can harness his arsenal, but that remains to be seen, especially after his 2011 performance. Profiles as a #2-#3 starter to most, and even if he doesn’t reach that ceiling, has a safe floor and should be at least a serviceable starter. He could debut at some point during the 2012 season.

Prospect B

Will be 21 years old for the duration of the 2012 season, and is around six feet tall and 180 pounds. He features a fastball that sits in the low-to-mid 90s with good sink, and can reach 96. His curveball sits in the mid 70s featuring good break, and a low 80s change-up. All three of his pitches profile as plus, although the results vary from start to start, with wavering mechanics being the main issue. He may add a slider, giving him a potential fourth pitch in his arsenal.

Inconsistency with his secondary offerings and trouble commanding his arsenal is the biggest area of concern. Durability is not an an issue.

He’s was touted as a future ace early in his career, and drew some lofty comparisons, but those expectations have been scaled back due to struggles with consistency. He now profiles more as a #2 starter and has an ace-caliber ceiling if things click. If his struggles in the rotation continue, he could be a dominant reliever, making his floor as a starter questionable. He could debut at some point during the 2012 season.

Additional Information:

- Both pitchers are considered in or around the Top 25 prospects in baseball.

- Prospect A is preferred 2-to-1 currently by industry experts. Two additional sources were split on the pitchers prior to last season, and have yet to release their current grades. Prior to the 2010 season, all industry sources preferred Prospect B due to his high ceiling and tantalizing arsenal.

- Prospect B has an arsenal that grades out higher than Prospect A, although the gap closed during the past year.

- Following the jump to Triple-A, Prospect A and Prospect B posted nearly identical expected ERAs. Prospect A posted a stronger strikeout rate, while Prospect B posted the better walk rate. The gap was notable in each case.

Summary:

To me, this is a classic case of personal preference. Prospect A offers solid upside and a safe floor (the conservative choice), while Prospect B offers ace upside but higher risk (the upside choice). Weighing all the evidence, which pitcher do you prefer, based on these reports?

We’ll get more specific about the prospects later this afternoon. State your case for which pitcher you’d choose in the comments. Speculate all you want on who the other pitching prospect is, but I’d prefer if we left guesses out of the comments until the afternoon. Let’s try and focus on just the reports for now.

The Reveal:


Prospect A- Manny Banuelos (New York Yankees)
Prospect B- Martin Perez (Texas Rangers)


I primarily pulled my reports from Baseball America and John Sickels, who recently updated their data on each pitcher. It’s amazing how similar these two pitchers are when you really get down to the nuts and bolts of it. Their arsenals are nearly identical, as are their builds, and ages.


The industry sources I cited for prospect preference were Sickels (minorleagueball.com), Jonathan Mayo (mlb.com), and Adam Foster and his team (projectprospect.com). Here is the breakdown of preference:


Sickels: Graded Perez a B+ prospect, and Banuelos a B prospect in his recent Baseball Prospect Handbook. In his Top 50 pitching prospects, he rated Perez 38th and Banuelos 40th, so he sees them as very close.


Mayo: Rated Banuelos the 13th best prospect in baseball, and Perez the 29th best prospect in baseball.


Project Prospect: Rated Banuelos the 8th best prospect in baseball, and Perez the 15th best prospect.

In his 2011 midseason prospect update, Keith Law of ESPN preferred Perez, ranking him 10th overall, with Banuelos in 18th spot. Prior to last season, Baseball America and Baseball Prospectus were split on the pitchers. Baseball America ranked Perez 24th last year, and Banuelos 41st. Baseball Prospectus had Banuelos 27th, and Perez 33rd. Every major industry source I found (BA, BP, PP, Mayo, Sickels, Keith Law) had Perez ranked inside their Top 25 prior to 2010 (Law had him #7), with Banuelos being either at the back end of lists or not on them at all.


Here are their Triple-A numbers from the 2011 season:


Perez: 49.0 IP, 6.43 ERA, 6.80 K/9, 3.67 BB/9, 3.98 FIP
Banuelos: 34.1 IP, 4.19 ERA, 8.13 K/9, 4.98 BB/9, 3.90 FIP


I found it interesting that their FIP was nearly identical when looking past the surface stats.


Personally, I’ve always preferred Perez to Banuelos, but I always prefer upside over a safer floor. The gap has closed significantly, which is a testament to how much Banuelos’ stuff has improved in the last few years.


Perez has been drawing comparisons to Johan Santana for as long as I’ve been following him, thanks to the special nature of his plus changeup. Consistency and confidence are his main issues, although he’s been rushed from the start, which many believe has slowed his development.


Banuelos is very close to big league ready, with his main issue being keeping his mechanics consistent enough to throw more strikes. He may always be a guy who has high pitch counts due to his aggressive mentality, but you’re always going to see the strikeouts pile up with him.


Now that you have the names, and the data, what are your thoughts on the two pitchers? Has this changed your vote, or do you stand by your original observation?

Poll
Which pitcher would you rather have in the Yankees organization?
Manny Banuelos (Prospect A)
357 votes
Martin Perez (Prospect B)
39 votes

396 votes | Poll has closed

Comment 37 comments  |  0 recs  | 

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Comments

Display:

I prefer prospect B

Not only do I prefer the higher-risk, higher-reward option because a decent back-of-the-rotation starter is easy enough to pick up in free agency, the erratic mechanics of prospect A could lead to injuries on top of poor command.

Nice idea for a series, btw. It’s a good way to survey prospects all over baseball.

Usqueadbaugham! Anam muck an dhoul ! Did ye drink me doornail?

by Q-TDSK on Feb 7, 2012 1:27 PM EST via mobile reply actions  

Keep in mind, erratic mechanics doesn’t necessarily mean a pitcher is an injury risk. Both of these pitchers have relatively clean mechanics. Repeating said mechanics is the current issue in the case of both.

Thanks for the feedback. I really enjoyed doing this piece and hope it’s well received.

You can read my thoughts on all things New York sports at SNYWhyGuys.com
Minor League/Prospect writer for Pinstripe Alley
Check out Minor Developments on Yahoo! for additional prospect coverage

by Rob Steingall on Feb 7, 2012 1:34 PM EST up reply actions  

are we allowed to write who we think is who? i dont want to go ahead and do that if it is frowned upon… but the “lofty expectations” gave me a hint as to who it is..

by ebtek1 on Feb 7, 2012 2:51 PM EST up reply actions  

“lofty comparisons” my bad

by ebtek1 on Feb 7, 2012 2:52 PM EST up reply actions  

See the last paragraph

The answer you seek is there.

You can read my thoughts on all things New York sports at SNYWhyGuys.com
Minor League/Prospect writer for Pinstripe Alley
Check out Minor Developments on Yahoo! for additional prospect coverage

by Rob Steingall on Feb 7, 2012 3:00 PM EST up reply actions  

apologies..

didnt even see the summary. i vote for player a.. both kids are only 21 years old.. plenty of time to work out some kinks.. a lefty k machine is enticing.. even if it means more seasoning to get that BB/9 down.. for what its worth i think MB is A and MP is B.. sorry i wont be around until later tonight and i wanted to participate

by ebtek1 on Feb 7, 2012 3:14 PM EST up reply actions  

Nice guess...

You’re spot on.

You can read my thoughts on all things New York sports at SNYWhyGuys.com
Minor League/Prospect writer for Pinstripe Alley
Check out Minor Developments on Yahoo! for additional prospect coverage

by Rob Steingall on Feb 7, 2012 6:16 PM EST up reply actions  

young johan if i remember correctly

by ebtek1 on Feb 7, 2012 7:26 PM EST up reply actions  

For the same reasons you dont want Prospect A I want him.

I feel the erratic mechanics mean that with a little more coaching and practice he can correct those problems and will reach his projected ceiling easier than Prospect B. The fact that at his lowest he can be a serviceable starter only adds, in my opinion, to his value.

Also, the fact that Prospect B was an ace caliber prospect but has fallen to around the same ceiling as Prospect A gives me the impression that he has either regressed or not developed as planned which worries me about his ability to make the corrections, and improvements necessary to cement himself as a starter, and in my opinion its easier to find an arm for the bullpen in FA than it is to find a dependable starter.

by ncquake24 on Feb 7, 2012 3:18 PM EST up reply actions  

Prospect A

I went with A due to the notable edge in strikeout rate. I think it’s easier to work on harnessing your command and lowering your walk rate than increasing your stikeout rate.

by ECClarke on Feb 7, 2012 1:31 PM EST reply actions  

Prospect B

There’s injury concern with all pitchers, though I understand certain mechanics make some pitchers more prone to problems. (Problem Prone Pitchers — alliteration!) However, for a prospect, command is very important in my mind. Racking up strike outs doesn’t impress me if all the batter has to do is wait around for a walk. Plus, the high pitch count means you’re coming out in the 5th inning (which was an issue with Joba during his starting season). Prospect A sounds like a guy that’s an AJ Burnett/Edwin Jackson type. Someone that can give you a solid game, but will also drive you crazy with inconsistency.

by Cinemanrt on Feb 7, 2012 2:16 PM EST reply actions  

This is more like a blind taste test than roulette. We discover we picked Two Buck Chuck over Chateau Lafitte Rothschild.

The Chateau is not bottled by our pitching coach, by the way. I picked ‘B’ for the higher upside since Bettances would seem to be an equal choice as a middle to bottom starter as well. In other words, if I took B, and he didn’t pan out, I would have other choices. The possibility of adding a fourth pitch seems like asking for trouble, though. There are very, very few pitchers with four pitches that they actually use. Either pitcher can win with a hard fastball, slow curve combination, but the already mastered third pitch gives B the edge. It’s a crap shoot from the information here as to which one is more likely to overcome his control issues.

by designatedquitter on Feb 7, 2012 2:27 PM EST reply actions  

Prospect B

I think it’s harder to find a potential ace than it is to find a potential serviceable starter (I know I’m oversimplifying your analysis, so sue me). The Yankees can afford to take this gamble more than most teams, so they need to go for it – especially considering their current depth at pitcher.

by waw on Feb 7, 2012 2:59 PM EST reply actions  

OK, now that I know the prospects' names

I want both of them in the Yankees system :-P

by waw on Feb 7, 2012 6:56 PM EST up reply actions  

I have to be honest...

At one point, even I got confused about which prospect was which when editing and reviewing the piece. To me, they have that many similarities.

The comments have been great so far. The cases you’ve all made for each prospect are very sound. It seems there are enough subtle differences between them to make you go one way or another.

You can read my thoughts on all things New York sports at SNYWhyGuys.com
Minor League/Prospect writer for Pinstripe Alley
Check out Minor Developments on Yahoo! for additional prospect coverage

by Rob Steingall on Feb 7, 2012 3:25 PM EST reply actions  

Prospect B sounds like ex-Yankee Arodis Vizcaino who
that idiot Cashman GAVE AWAY in the 2nd Vasquez trade.
to Atlanta

by frankiec on Feb 7, 2012 3:30 PM EST reply actions  

hes a righty though

by ebtek1 on Feb 7, 2012 3:35 PM EST up reply actions  

Good point...

Both players are left-handed starters. I will add that in now.
I assumed since Banuelos was left handed, everyone would realize this compares a similar handed prospect.

You can read my thoughts on all things New York sports at SNYWhyGuys.com
Minor League/Prospect writer for Pinstripe Alley
Check out Minor Developments on Yahoo! for additional prospect coverage

by Rob Steingall on Feb 7, 2012 3:41 PM EST up reply actions  

If Manny is 6’0 / 180 lbs, I’m George Washington.

by Lord Duggan on Feb 7, 2012 3:56 PM EST reply actions  

"Around"

It’s vague by design. And if you think he’s legitimately 155 pounds, you’re kidding yourself.
I’ve even read a report of him being in the 185 pound range, from a very credible source.

You can read my thoughts on all things New York sports at SNYWhyGuys.com
Minor League/Prospect writer for Pinstripe Alley
Check out Minor Developments on Yahoo! for additional prospect coverage

by Rob Steingall on Feb 7, 2012 4:16 PM EST up reply actions  

185 pounds?

too fat to pitch

Just once I'd like someone to call me "Sir," without adding, "You're making a scene."

by YankeeCarp on Feb 7, 2012 6:35 PM EST up reply actions  

The importance of an ace

In the playoffs an ace is important. I therefore would prefer B to A for the Yanks if we cannot get both. I am assuming that neither has a significant injury history and that neither has mechanics that show proneness to injury as a starter (I put Joba in that category). I also note that little is said about the mental make-up of either pitcher. Has either pitched in minor league playoffs, and with what results?

by logiet on Feb 7, 2012 4:30 PM EST reply actions  

Pretty sure B is Manny

The curve velocity sounds about right, and I’ve heard more than a few rumblings about the slider and him.

I bet A is Martin Perez

by Yankees199 on Feb 7, 2012 5:03 PM EST reply actions  

Reverse it

The difference is in the curve MPH. Perez throws his just a bit slower.

You can read my thoughts on all things New York sports at SNYWhyGuys.com
Minor League/Prospect writer for Pinstripe Alley
Check out Minor Developments on Yahoo! for additional prospect coverage

by Rob Steingall on Feb 7, 2012 6:19 PM EST up reply actions  

What gets me is the write up on the change

Its widely called Banuelos’ best pitch, and pretty much from his first day it was and still is his go to pitch when nothing else works. As stated before I’ve heard more than a few rumblings about Banuelos learning a slider or cutter, so that’s what threw me off in your post (that and the curve).

by Yankees199 on Feb 7, 2012 8:58 PM EST up reply actions  

I've never seen anything on Banuelos adding a slider

I don’t disagree with you that you’ve seen his change-up listed as plus. I’ve seen similar reports. There are tons out there.

Pitchers with a plus fastball, plus change-up, and plus curveball usually are said to have ace upside. Still, many industry people believe Manny is a #2/#3 type guy.

That said, scouting reports have been proven wrong in the past, and I see no reason it can’t happen here. I sure as hell hope he becomes an ace, and I’m sure everyone else here agrees.

You can read my thoughts on all things New York sports at SNYWhyGuys.com
Minor League/Prospect writer for Pinstripe Alley
Check out Minor Developments on Yahoo! for additional prospect coverage

by Rob Steingall on Feb 7, 2012 9:19 PM EST up reply actions  

It's mostly due to his curve

it has a real sweepy look (Not unlike CC’s rarely seen curve) that has made some scouts notice that he would be better suited to develop a slider (I’ve also heard some things about him throwing a few in game)

Also, I did some checking Everything I found on Perez has his Curve in the low 80’s, and Banuelos in the 70’s

by Yankees199 on Feb 9, 2012 1:53 PM EST up reply actions  

Straight from Baseball America

On Perez:

sharp 73-77 mph curveball with good depth

You can read my thoughts on all things New York sports at SNYWhyGuys.com
Minor League/Prospect writer for Pinstripe Alley
Check out Minor Developments on Yahoo! for additional prospect coverage

by Rob Steingall on Feb 9, 2012 3:00 PM EST up reply actions  

Check the dates on those reports...

The PP one is from 2010, and the other is from Feb 2011.
The one I posted is recent.

Either way, I agree with you. These guys are essentially the same pitcher.

You can read my thoughts on all things New York sports at SNYWhyGuys.com
Minor League/Prospect writer for Pinstripe Alley
Check out Minor Developments on Yahoo! for additional prospect coverage

by Rob Steingall on Feb 9, 2012 6:09 PM EST up reply actions  

Interesting results for the 2nd Poll compared to the 1st...

Does anyone who changed their vote care to share their reasons?

I suppose it’s always possible this poll is reaching a different audience, which is the one thing I unfortunately have no control over.

You can read my thoughts on all things New York sports at SNYWhyGuys.com
Minor League/Prospect writer for Pinstripe Alley
Check out Minor Developments on Yahoo! for additional prospect coverage

by Rob Steingall on Feb 7, 2012 7:14 PM EST reply actions  

its a great example of an economic/psychological theory

You value what you have more than you value what you don’t. They did studies with Duke basketball and the students who won tickets to the final four (Duke has a very intense contest to earn tickets for any game) on average valued the tickets at a much higher price than those students who had not won the tickets. Very few Yankee fans will say someone else’s prospect is better because we have valued our own, at such a greater value.

by ncquake24 on Feb 7, 2012 7:51 PM EST up reply actions  

+1

You can read my thoughts on all things New York sports at SNYWhyGuys.com
Minor League/Prospect writer for Pinstripe Alley
Check out Minor Developments on Yahoo! for additional prospect coverage

by Rob Steingall on Feb 7, 2012 8:10 PM EST up reply actions  

It’s just bias. People have their opinions and they stick to them

Contributing writer for Pinstripe Alley.
Follow me on Twitter @frankiecamp48

by Frank Campagnola on Feb 7, 2012 8:43 PM EST up reply actions  

I'm shocked

I always thought I read that Banuelos had a plus change.

by Now Batting on Feb 7, 2012 7:15 PM EST reply actions  

Depends on your source

Here is according to Mayo:

his changeup is an above-average to plus pitch at times as well

Different people also see different things, so what you’ve read isn’t necessarily wrong.

You can read my thoughts on all things New York sports at SNYWhyGuys.com
Minor League/Prospect writer for Pinstripe Alley
Check out Minor Developments on Yahoo! for additional prospect coverage

by Rob Steingall on Feb 7, 2012 7:24 PM EST up reply actions  

Comments For This Post Are Closed


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