MLB Hot Stove: Braun, Hamilton, Morneau, Martin, & Prospects
by WhatwouldJeterdo on Feb 24, 2012 5:30 PM EST
in MLB News
Email
PrintIn his press conference today, Ryan Braun called MLB's drug testing policy, as it was applied to him, fatally flawed.
There is a zero percent chance we don't hear about this ad nauseam for the entirety of the 2012 season, but it's pretty unacceptable to have such important pieces of evidence be handled the way this was, whether you believe in Braun's innocence or not. MLB sort of threw Braun and themselves under the bus by saying they disagreed with the decision of the appeals process that they set forth. Why have an appeals process at all if it's not allowed to work?
Josh Hamilton doesn't plan on giving the Rangers a discount when it comes to contract extension negotiations.
"I love Texas, I love the fans, I love the organization, and I love my teammates. But I'm not going to sit here and say I owe the Rangers", Hamilton said. I'd personally be surprised to see Hamilton go to another team, but it sounds like the Rangers will really have to pay up if they want to keep him.
Justin Morneau acknowledged that the concussion he suffered in 2010 could end his career.
The former MVP has tried unsuccessfully to get back on the field ever since, and 2012 might be his last attempt at being able to play baseball again. Really unfortunate news. Seeing anyone's career ended by injury is always sad.
After coming to no extension conclusion this offeason, talks with Russell Martin won't continue until the season is over.
That's likely for the best, so that both parties can examine their options after the season plays out. So much can happen during the season, and new options can present themselves at any time, so it will be interesting to see how everything shakes out at that point.
Fangraphs released their Top 15 Yankee Prospects List and a very curious name comes in second.
Very curious, indeed. Manny Banuelos is first, Mason Williams is fourth, and Gary Sanchez is fifth. I don't put a lot of faith in prospect lists, but this one is rather different from the ones that have been released so far this offseason.
Feel free to use this thread to discuss whatever you'd like in the world of baseball or otherwise.
36 comments
|
0 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
Who's on first
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves.
I can't get too excited about a pitching prospect whose last name does not begin with "B"
I want more hype
I was thinkin' this, too, after we acquired Campos.
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves.
I don't know
Campos seems like he may be legit
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves.
Hamilton was probably a fan of the Pujols signing
It will most likely force Texas to pay him what he wants if they want to compete with the Angels.
Everybody's heard about the bird
"WHO WOULD LEAD?! THE CLOWN?!"
ImNotAHRHitter
Pinstripe Alley Podcast
by I'mGivingYouARaise on Feb 25, 2012 12:22 AM EST up reply actions
I couldn't agree more on how badly MLB handled Braun's urine
Usqueadbaugham! Anam muck an dhoul ! Did ye drink me doornail?
by Q-TDSK on Feb 24, 2012 10:50 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Any Doctors here?
Do testosterone levels diminish over a short period of time? Why can’t MLB retest? My impression is that steroids stay in the system longer than the regular drugs non-athletes get checked for. I would think that it would be SOP to retest the athlete, if a test came back positive, for everybody’s protection against an anomaly.
Right now I’ve got to say that I think Braun is cheating. So unless he wants to go through the stigma AROD and Ortiz are experiencing and he is innocent, he should ask for a retest.
he already got retested
after he was told he tested positive he asked for a retest and his levels were normal. I think the two tests were a week or two apart. Can testosterone levels go from that high to that low so fast? Obviously you never heard about the second test because who wants to hear about those pesky details
I checked out some web sites
and talked to a doctor who works nearby. Both indicate the levels will drop precipitously when left to normalize, kinda like many illicit drugs and not like steroids. The doc even said the levels can rise and fall naturally, but not like Braun’s did.
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves.
One article I read (on the four-letter network, I think) said the levels are used only to determine the need for another test.
The second test determines whether or not the testosterone came from an external source. In any case, I wonder what the false positive rate on these tests are. If levels normalize quickly, it seems as though nobody has a fair chance to really clear his name in the event of a false positive.
Usqueadbaugham! Anam muck an dhoul ! Did ye drink me doornail?
by Q-TDSK on Feb 25, 2012 11:47 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Or vice-versa
How can anyone be proven guilty because the levels normalize rather quickly? By the time another test is administered, voila…
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves.
Apparently, though, the one test is enough for the MLB and MLBPA
Usqueadbaugham! Anam muck an dhoul ! Did ye drink me doornail?
by Q-TDSK on Feb 25, 2012 12:18 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
And the rest of sports...
…pretty much adopt the same policy.
As to how they account for false positives…you provide an A sample and B sample. The B sample only gets used if the A sample is positive. TWO false positives would be so statistically rare (when it’s the test, itself, that returns a false result….not the sample) that the eventuality wouldn’t need consideration.
Now…if there’s something IN both samples….it’s in the samples and you have to explain it. There ARE substances you can injest (not illegal) that can cause a false positive because of the SAMPLE….but that’s typically when testing for things like meth or thc (pot). Nothing, that I know of, IN a specimen, can cause a false positive for synthetic testosterone.
48 hours...
…with some of the new “designer” synthetics. After that, it’s basically gone.
Here’s the thing: The ONLY way elevated SYNTHETIC hormones (they were high in carbon-13) are in the urine sample is if they came through the body, or the courier was some sort of mad genius who figured out how to tamper with the specimen and NOT leave any trace. One of those scenarios is far more likely than the other.
If the courier had straight up tampered with it (ie: broke the seal, introduced synthetic hormone to the sample, and somehow replicated and resealed the specimen), it would have been obvious when the specimen was tested. The lab results would have shown measurable inconsistencies if that method was used.
Now, I suppose you could make the point the specimen was NOT Brauns…and the courier somehow replaced it (again, replicating and replacing the seals…which, contrary to Braun’s assertions, is NOT relatively simple) with the specimen of a “juicer”. Still, while that’s more possible, it’s still pretty implausible.
What’s ironic is this: Braun got due process, and was not guilty via a procedural mistake (mishandling the sample). The courier, who’s basically being accused of tampering and trying to ruin Braun, gets no due process at all. Unless Braun follows through on his threat to sue…..which I think is pretty unlikely (no matter what he said in his presser).
Thanks. I hadn't heard about the 2nd test.
I did a search and the average “half-life” was 8 to 9 days, depending on the drug you use. So he could have quit right after the first test and then passed on the second.
not really
if the half life is 8 days and he tested at 4 times the normal level, then in 8 days it would still be double, 16 days 1.5 times etc etc. So if he were tested 7 to 14 days after the first test, then he’d still have high testosterone.
The implication has been that nobody has ever (or could ever) test that high (without being a raging maniac). So it sounds like you simply have to throw that result out of the window and re-test ASAP. Which they did and he passed.
Unless you want to go against innocent until proven otherwise, especially given an impossible test result, then you have to ignore the only positive test we know about and move on.
Research is what I'm doing when I don't know what I'm doing.
Wrong
A 4:1 ratio triggers a positive test. Braun’s was about 30:1. While that is very high, the lab has seen ratios of 80:1 and higher.
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves.
OK, so it seems what I read was wrong
but the point about the half life still holds true. He would have tested as “high” (greater than 4 fold above average) for longer than 2 weeks IF the half life is 8 days.
Research is what I'm doing when I don't know what I'm doing.
Perhaps. Who knows..?
Everyone’s body metabolizes differently…
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves.
Huh? Where did I say that? Do you know how to read?
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves.
hmm - yeah. Kinda.
The OP said “Right now I’ve got to say that I think Braun is cheating”. I read that… and I’m not convinced.
I was then trying to respond to the half life point.
You said “Perhaps. Who knows..? Everyone’s body metabolizes differently…” What was the point of that?? It has no relevance. I was therefore being ironic. Sorry if that’s too complicated a notion.
Research is what I'm doing when I don't know what I'm doing.
The OP said "Right now I’ve got to say that I think Braun is cheating". I read that… and I’m not convinced.
I was then trying to respond to the half life point.
You said "Perhaps. Who knows..? Everyone’s body metabolizes differently…" What was the point of that??
Research is what I'm doing when I don't know what I'm doing.
Did you read that his second test was also at an elevated level? Or is that too complicated to understand what that may implicate? Or did you read that the sample, regardless of whatever path it took to get to the lab, was sill sealed and not tampered with? Or is that too complicated to understand, too. So, no, I never actually said he was guilty in our conversation. But yes, he probably is and got off on a technicality. You probably think OJ is innocent, too. I’ve already stated my feelings on this yesterday, I’m done with it.
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves.
a second test
of the SAME sample tested elevated.
a second test 1-2 weeks later of a new sample did not. Hence the half life argument. Do you follow? You think he’s guilty, fine. I’m not 100% convinced, that’s all I’m saying. We’re not that far apart… I would prefer to be convinced before sending somebody to the firing squad. He could well be guilty. I don’t think OJ is innocent.
Research is what I'm doing when I don't know what I'm doing.
There are plenty...
…of synthetics who’s half life is measured in hours. Winstrol (9 hours oral, 1 day IV), Dainabol, Anavar, Amadrol…even the newer Testosterone Suspensions have half lifes of around a day.
So, sure…if he was using the stuff they used 10 years ago (Primabolin, Decabolin, etc), the half life would be 8 to 14 DAYS.
Not with the newer stuff. He was tested on the 1st, alerted to the positive test on the 19th. That’s 18 days, at least, before he was retested. Plenty of time to leave his system.
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
Related FanPosts on Pinstripe Alley
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recommended FanPosts
Recent FanPosts
In Association With
Big League Stew - MLB - Yahoo! Sports
- College player makes impossible over the fence catch to save tournament game (Video)
- Security!: Camden Yards guard collides with Royals’ Mike Moustakas
- The Juice: Nelson Cruz matches career high eight RBIs, Pujols stays hot in Seattle
- Benches clear at Fenway as Red Sox-Rays rivalry heats up
- Keeping good company: Albert Pujols becomes fourth-youngest player to hit 450 home runs
