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Young Pitchers: the Statistical Analysis Fallacy

I've seen a lot of people look at the statistical lines of young minor league pitchers and try to draw some kind of conclusion about their chances in the majors. There are many problems with that approach.

First, young hitters have poor plate discipline and so will more likely swing at pitches out of the zone. Second, lots of young hitters have to learn to hit good changes ups and other breaking pitches. In short, pitches that get minor leaguers out won't necessary get major league hitters out. It's the same issue that comes up when Brian Cashman is trying to gauge a pitcher in the National League. How will that same pitcher fair against the American League and especially the American League East, where there are better hitters and a lot more of them up and down many of the lineups?

The other factor in this equation is that young pitchers evolve. Sometimes the guy with the 92 mile an hour fast ball gains a few extra ticks. That's what happened to Manny Banuelos, for example. He was already a projectable starter because of his control and his breaking balls. Add a few miles an hour to his fastball, and, boom, he's a top of the rotation candidate. Of course, add velocity to his fastball and his command wasn't quite as good with that fastball last year, but before you get down on him, remember that most scouts think that control issue will not be a long term problem.

Not that many pitchers gain velocity like that. But many learn how to throw a change up or a slider or a 12 to 6 curve ball. Their command improves and so on. And suddenly, a guy who walks a lot of batters and has a high ERA or he get slapped around is suddenly light out.

Let's look at a couple of classic examples after the jump.

Star-divide

The first is one of my favorite Yankees from days of yore, Ron Guidry. Guidry was 26 years old before he stuck in the bigs for good (he had had a couple of cups of coffee before that). He went a crisp 16-7 that year, with a 2.82 ERA. Those were the days that pitchers pitched a lot of innings. And that's what happened to "Gator." 210 innings that first year (after not pitching more than 100 innings in the minors). The next year was arguably the greatest year ever by a Yankee pitcher. Guidry went 25-3 with a 1.76 ERA, winning the Cy Young and helping the Yankees to beat the Dodgers in the 1977 World Series. And you wince at the inning total (273) and wonder if the Yankees had built his arm strength more gradually if he wouldn't have had more 20 win seasons.

But why did it take the guy with that kind of stuff so long to make it to the show for good? In a word, control. In his second year in the minors, at the age of 21, he walked 50 batters in 66 innings in single A ball. The next year, at 22, he walked 70 in 101 innings.

He finally made it to AA the next year, at 23, but he still walked 53 in 77 innings. There weren't any blogs back then. Heck, Bill Gates and Steve Jobs hadn't even popularized being a geek yet. But if there were blogs, I'm sure fans would have written Guidry off and scoffed at anyone who said he had top of the rotation stuff. After all, just look at his walk to strikeout ratio, they'd say.

So here are his minor league stats before he arrived in the majors, from baseball-reference.com:

Year Age Lev W L ERA SV IP H HR BB SO WHIP
1971 20 Rk 2 2 2.11 47 34 1 27 1.298
1972 21 A 2 4 3.82 0 66 53 2 50 61 1.561
1973 22 A 7 6 3.21 101 85 4 70 1.535
1974 23 AA 2 4 5.26 3 77 80 5 53 79 1.727
1975 24 AAA 6 5 2.9 14 62 46 0 37 76 1.339
1976 25 AAA 5 1 0.68 9 40 16 0 13 50 0.725

And here are his major league stats:

Year Age W L ERA SHO SV IP H BB SO WHIP Awards
1975 24 0 1 3.45 0 0 15.2 15 9 15 1.532
1976 25 0 0 5.63 0 0 16 20 4 12 1.5
1977 26 16 7 2.82 5 1 210 174 65 176 1.134 CYA-7MVP-18
1978 27 25 3 1.74 9 0 273 187 72 248 0.946 ASCYA-1MVP-2
1979 28 18 8 2.78 2 2 236 203 71 201 1.159 ASCYA-3MVP-26
1980 29 17 10 3.56 3 1 219 215 80 166 1.343
1981 30 11 5 2.76 0 0 127 100 26 104 0.992 CYA-7
1982 31 14 8 3.81 1 0 222 216 69 162 1.284 ASGG
1983 32 21 9 3.42 3 0 250 232 60 156 1.166 ASCYA-5MVP-21GG
1984 33 10 11 4.51 1 0 195 223 44 127 1.365 GG
1985 34 22 6 3.27 2 0 259 243 42 143 1.1 CYA-2MVP-15GG
1986 35 9 12 3.98 0 0 192 202 38 140 1.248 GG
1987 36 5 8 3.67 0 0 117 111 38 96 1.266
1988 37 2 3 4.18 0 0 56 57 15 32 1.286

But Guidry is just one example. Perhaps the greatest lefty of all time had similar challenges. In fact, he got so discouraged at one point he almost quit the game of baseball. In the case of Sandy Koufax, however, he was what was known as a "bonus baby" and so went straight to the majors at the age of 19. He had a respectable 3.02 ERA that first year. But he walked 28 batters in just 42 innings.

After that, Koufax went four years without pitching 200 innings or having an ERA under 4. The next year, at the age of 24, his ERA finally dipped barely below 4 but he went just 8-13. Then, just like that, things started looking up for the lefty. And from the ages of 27-30, when he retired, Koufax put together four of the most dominant seasons in the history of baseball, winning an MVP and three Cy Youngs and coming in third the other time in the Cy Young race. (He also finished second in the MVP race two of those years, fueling hot debates about whether pitchers could be MVPs. For batters facing him, I'm guessing there wasn't that much of a debate. He had a lot of them look feeble.

Year Age W L ERA SHO IP H SO WHIP Awards
1955 19 2 2 3.02 2 41.2 33 30 1.464
1956 20 2 4 4.91 0 58.2 66 30 1.619
1957 21 5 4 3.88 0 104.1 83 122 1.284
1958 22 11 11 4.48 0 158.2 132 131 1.494
1959 23 8 6 4.05 1 153.1 136 173 1.487
1960 24 8 13 3.91 2 175 133 197 1.331
1961 25 18 13 3.52 2 255.2 212 269 1.205 ASMVP-18
1962 26 14 7 2.54 2 184.1 134 216 1.036 ASMVP-24
1963 27 25 5 1.88 11 311 214 306 0.875 ASCYA-1MVP-1
1964 28 19 5 1.74 7 223 154 223 0.928 ASCYA-3MVP-17
1965 29 26 8 2.04 8 335.2 216 382 0.855 ASCYA-1MVP-2
1966 30 27 9 1.73 5 323 241 317 0.985 ASCYA-1MVP-2

So, for all you stats geeks, I love stats, too. But, with young players, they really don't tell the whole story. And when you look at the wealth of pitchers the Yankees have at AAA and even in the lower minors, you should be very grateful. I know I am.

PS - Don't forget to tell everyone what a great post this was. :-)

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Comments

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This is well done, but it only looks at one player who was a late bloomer and the other that is an all-time great, and arguably the greatest lefty ever.

Statistical analysis works most of the time. There will always be players who defy the odds and become outliers that speak against the statistical analysis. Just because one player proved someone wrong does not mean who should cease to use the scouting and statistics that we have at our disposal.

Statistical analysis exists to help us paint the most complete picture of a player as we can. Sometimes, people miss, but that does not mean they should stop analyzing.

Contributing writer for Pinstripe Alley.
Follow me on Twitter @frankiecamp48

by Frank Campagnola on Feb 23, 2012 12:18 PM EST reply actions  

I totally agree with your point

I actually love stats. I just think that sometimes people make all kinds of dismissive statements about young pitchers and hitters, statements that rely purely on statistical assessments and are not very thoughtful.

I believe that with major leaguers, you can tell a LOT by even basic OBP and slugging percentage, much less all the more nuanced statistics that have come in to play.

If it were tracked properly, I also think stats could very precisely ID the quality of fielders. For example, if someone clocked the ground that an outfielder could cover from the moment the pitch hit a bat until the ball landed, that would tell you all you need to know about his range. It would factor in speed and quickness reacting to the flight path in a totally precise way.

Dog Bone

by jdg4660 on Feb 23, 2012 9:15 PM EST up reply actions  

But it wouldn't tell you if he took the best route to the ball

Sometimes a slower fielder can outperform a faster one if he’s better at seeing the ball off of the bat and selecting his route. We’ve seen examples of outfielders who do not take straight routes to the ball, or even break the wrong way and then have to recover. You know the ones – they wind up on SportsCenter top plays and get gold gloves because of the highlight reel catches that a better outfielder makes look routine. Looking at you, Grandy!

by waw on Feb 23, 2012 10:57 PM EST up reply actions  

1978

That was an amazing year, maybe the best I’ve ever followed as a Yankees fan. It seemed like every time Gator pitched was a shutout. Reggie seemed to hit a HR often when Guidry pitched, too.

Little darling, it's been a long cold lonely winter
Little darling, it feels like years since it's been here
Here comes the sun
Here comes the sun, and I say
It's all right

by david d on Feb 23, 2012 12:35 PM EST reply actions  

If your point is that statistics cannot always accurately predict the future, well of course I agree. But they are the best tool available for attempting to do so, and as Frank said above, they are usually (but not always) good at it.

One of the most important things you look at with statistics is trends. Not just what has the player done throughout his career, but what has he done lately, and is he trending upwards or downwards. For a guy like Manny, his control went down from one year to the next. But one season is not much of a trend, and on top of that, he’s moved up through the system, so the comparison is not great. Minor league batters get better the closer you get to the majors. So, I don’t think anyone is really worried about Manny’s control right now. It’s only a short term trend, with several well-known contributing factors (increase in velocity, increase in quality of opposition) and he’s still pretty young as well.

by waw on Feb 23, 2012 1:21 PM EST reply actions  

“But they are the best tool available”
But they are the best tool publicly available. Fixed it!

Unfortunately, there’s not many people with the expertise of a pro scout writing around the interwebs.

"Love and fighting... Love and fighting, and a little wine. Then you are always young, always happy."
My Blog | Twitter

by jscape2000 on Feb 23, 2012 2:08 PM EST up reply actions  

Of course statistics are useful

No one can argue that. It’s whether other kinds of qualitative assessments are brought to bear on the statistics. My issue, and it’s a much bigger beef with minor leaguers and young players in the majors, is that the talent is still developing and the statistics can’t always predict whether the pitcher will gain better control or a hitter will get a more complete understanding of the strike zone.

Dog Bone

by jdg4660 on Feb 23, 2012 9:18 PM EST up reply actions  

Like what jscape said… we (the public) work with what we have which I believe is only the tip of the iceberg. There is a reason why a company like Sportsvision is making a ton of money because of the proprietary information that they can provide to pro teams.

by Scooby Snacks on Feb 24, 2012 1:41 AM EST up reply actions  

Another example of a pitcher gaining mph is Mariano Rivera, whose heater went from 91 to 96 in 1995.

He was very nearly traded when Brian Cashman learned that Rivera’s velocity had increased practically overnight. Or Andy Pettitte, who learned to throw a cutter in his third season in the majors.

Statistics often identify dominant minor leaguers who are ready for promotion. What they miss are players who don’t hit for high average or tremendous power, or have a huge K:BB ratio. Groundball pitchers usually have poor ratios, and they give up a lot of hits, so they look like they won’t make it in the major leagues, but the good ones will pitch to the same numbers in the majors, and be helped by better defense.

by designatedquitter on Feb 29, 2012 11:26 AM EST reply actions  

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