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Raul Ibanez vs Johnny Damon

I've been hearing a lot of Yankee fans saying it would be a better move for the Yankees to sign Johnny Damon as opposed to Raul Ibanez. At first reaction I agreed with this also, but after looking into it further my opinion has changed and this is why.

Star-divide

The Yankees need a DH to start against right handed pitching, with Andruw Jones already filling the DH spot against lefties. So when considering which of these two players to choose, how they fare against right handed pitching should be the main concern. Here are links to Damon's and Ibanez 2011 splits from Baseball Reference.

Looking at these splits you can see that there batting averages differ by one point, and Damon has a higher OBP by 7 points. However, there is a big difference in their power numbers. Ibanez hit 16 HRS and 60 RBIS while slugging .440 as compared to Damon hitting 10 HR's with 45 RBI'S and slugging .401. Also keep in mind Ibanez has the higher power numbers in pretty much the same amount of AB'S, actually a little less. Using these splits we can see Ibanez hits the same for average as Damon while displaying more power against right handed pitching.

I've also heard a couple of people bring out the point that Johnny Damon will benefit big time from the right field porch in Yankee Stadium and that will bring his power numbers up. If you look at the park dimensions of Citizen Bank Park as opposed to the dimensions of Tropicana Field, Citizen Bank actually has a deeper right field then Tropicana Field, so you would have to give any type of benefit you would give to Damon in Yankee Stadium, To Ibanez as well. So I believe it would be safe to assume, they would both see jumps in their power numbers.

Then of course, there is the fielding factor. Ibanez displayed last yea he can still play the field for most of the season, something Damon did not display. I understand we have Andrew Jones who can play the outfield, but it can never hurt to have somebody who can play the field effectively, especially when they possess a better bat as well. If we have injuries in the outfield, and need some bodies out there, Ibanez would seem to be able to play an effective left field for us.

So When you look at the whole picture, Ibanez based on last years performance showed he can hit for average just as well as Damon, get on base at pretty much the same rate and hit for more power. He is also more capable of playing the field if we needed him too and I believe he would see the same type of jump to his power numbers due to playing in Yankee Stadium as Damon. Ibanez may be slightly older then Damon, but the fact that he played 140 games in left field for the Phillies shows he is good shape, and Damon's not exactly a young pup either. Due to all of these factor I believe Ibanez would be the better fit for the left handed DH spot.

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Ehh...
Ibanez displayed last year he can still play the field for most of the season, something Damon did not display.

"Don't you think it's strange that you'll make more money than President Hoover this year?"
"Why not? I had a better year than he did." - G.H. Ruth

by Andrew GM on Feb 19, 2012 6:00 PM EST reply actions  

Just cuz he was out there

doesn’t mean he can actually play it. It doesn’t matter anyway, he’d only get a few starts here and there in both left and right.

Romine!

by david d on Feb 19, 2012 6:05 PM EST up reply actions  

i hear ya

my only point is… if he was out there that many games… he had to at least be servicable… and yeah… they only need him a couple of games

by capz1990 on Feb 19, 2012 6:07 PM EST up reply actions  

well he was in the NL

he couldn’t exactly DH there. He HAD to play the field

by jetanumba2 on Feb 19, 2012 6:21 PM EST up reply actions  

That just means they were playing him. What else were they going to do?

They have no DH in the NL.

Any Phillies fan will probably tell you that he has no range anymore. Defensive metrics also show this. You should also check the sidebar on Lookout Landing in the section “Raul Ibanez takes pride in his defense.”

"Don't you think it's strange that you'll make more money than President Hoover this year?"
"Why not? I had a better year than he did." - G.H. Ruth

by Andrew GM on Feb 19, 2012 6:08 PM EST up reply actions  

if he was terrible

they wouldnt have played THAT many games in left field… and regardless the whole point is…. if we needed him to.. hed be able to play left field for us in case of injuries and w/e else…. and that fact that he played 134 games…. shows hed definetly at least be able to fill in

by capz1990 on Feb 19, 2012 6:11 PM EST up reply actions  

Well where else would they have put him if they wanted his bat in the lineup?

"Don't you think it's strange that you'll make more money than President Hoover this year?"
"Why not? I had a better year than he did." - G.H. Ruth

by Andrew GM on Feb 19, 2012 6:13 PM EST up reply actions  

if he was completely incapable

they would have benched him….. i see where your coming from and your point makes sense… im not arguing that hes a great fielder or anything… but hes still able to field the position on a regular basis…. we have no evidence of that with damon

by capz1990 on Feb 19, 2012 6:17 PM EST up reply actions  

for what ever reason

he was able to field the position for 130 games last year…. so if we needed him to…. due to injuries… hes shown he can play it… damon didnt…. thats all im saying

by capz1990 on Feb 19, 2012 6:18 PM EST up reply actions  

Damon didn’t because there were 3 outfielders better than him on the Rays and with the DH, they didn’t have to compromise their defense to get his bat in the lineup. Philly didn’t have that choice, so they had to play an awful fielder just to get his offense. It’s not a glowing recommendation on how he plays defense, or that he’s better than Damon in that aspect.

Tweets
"Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose, sometimes it rains"

by WhatwouldJeterdo on Feb 19, 2012 6:23 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

but if damon didnt play

how do you know he can even be servicable for an extended period of time? …. you have nothing to say he can be…. ibanez has a track record showing he can do it…

by capz1990 on Feb 19, 2012 6:28 PM EST up reply actions  

your all making an argument

based on something i didnt say

“Ibanez displayed last yea he can still play the field for most of the season, something Damon did not display”

all i said is he displayed he can play the field for most of the season and damon didnt lol….

by capz1990 on Feb 19, 2012 6:30 PM EST up reply actions  

But your point is not a valid one

What you seem to be saying is Ibanez played, 134 games in the OF, Damon did not, so Ibanez is a better OF option.

What everyone else is saying is, Damon did not HAVE to play OF to bat, Ibanez did. NL vs AL rules, and all that. Just because they did not have a better option does not mean Ibanez was a good option. Ibanez, if he sticks at all, will hopefully play a miniscule number of games in the field – not enough to offset whatever marginal value he will provide as a part-time DH.

by waw on Feb 20, 2012 12:11 PM EST up reply actions  

There really is no Damon vs. Ibanez because Damon is not an option anymore.

Follow me on twitter @nyybrandonc

Co-Manager/Writer for Pinstripe Alley, Editor/Writer for Blueshirt Banter, Writer for On The Banks

by Brandon C. on Feb 19, 2012 6:46 PM EST reply actions  

Ibanez would be way less of a baby.

winner.

I dare you to challenge Al Yellon.

You have been banned from Bleed Cubbie Blue.
I see a long moderation log here for you. You've worn out your welcome in just about the entire AL East, including your own home team! Congratulations, you've started on the NL Central. Goodbye.

by SandalsNoPants on Feb 19, 2012 7:28 PM EST reply actions  

Damon

would be a much better fit. And he was fine when he was here, a model Yankee/teammate.

Romine!

by david d on Feb 19, 2012 7:42 PM EST up reply actions  

WINNER.

Cherington has taken off his pants and he’s shitting all over my hopes for 2012
by TheLoneDavid on Jan 10, 2012 12:31 PM CST

by SandalsNoPants on Feb 20, 2012 1:46 PM EST up reply actions  

Ibanez can just be thankful that the Orioles were just as insistent about trotting out Mark Reynolds to play the field every day so that he didn’t have to come in dead last in UZR. Not that I’m downplaying the magnificence of a -18.9 rating, which I’m sure he worked very hard to achieve.

by Lord Duggan on Feb 19, 2012 7:48 PM EST reply actions   1 recs

Wow, I knew it was bad, but I didn’t know it was quite that bad. Atta boy, Raul. Keep up the good work!

Tweets
"Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose, sometimes it rains"

by WhatwouldJeterdo on Feb 19, 2012 7:57 PM EST up reply actions  

There is a hilarious set of GIFs over at Lookout Landing showcasing Ibanez's fielding abilities.

I dare you to challenge Al Yellon.

You have been banned from Bleed Cubbie Blue.
I see a long moderation log here for you. You've worn out your welcome in just about the entire AL East, including your own home team! Congratulations, you've started on the NL Central. Goodbye.

by SandalsNoPants on Feb 19, 2012 8:06 PM EST up reply actions  

Over at Lookout Landing they have a sort of a bitter affection for former Mariners

I know where I come from, and when you always have in mind where you come from the rest will be easy. I think the rest will be easy.

-- M. Rivera

by GMan83201 on Feb 19, 2012 9:06 PM EST up reply actions  

Good.

I dare you to challenge Al Yellon.

You have been banned from Bleed Cubbie Blue.
I see a long moderation log here for you. You've worn out your welcome in just about the entire AL East, including your own home team! Congratulations, you've started on the NL Central. Goodbye.

by SandalsNoPants on Feb 19, 2012 9:13 PM EST up reply actions  

....

metrics like uzr mean absolutely nothing to me

by capz1990 on Feb 19, 2012 8:23 PM EST reply actions  

metric stats like that try to make baseball into an exact science which is impossible… its a game played by human beings… stop trying to make it into a science… its not

by capz1990 on Feb 19, 2012 9:08 PM EST up reply actions  

especially since theyre all based on self imposed “averages” and what a “replacement” player is… its a flawed system… people shouldnt treat it like its a tell all

by capz1990 on Feb 19, 2012 9:09 PM EST up reply actions  

Did anyone do that? I must have missed the point where I said that his -18.9 rating makes him absolutely worse than someone with a -18.8 rating and absolutely better than someone with a -19.0 rating. It’s a terrible rating, which means that last year he didn’t catch the ball very often. The number might not be an exactly perfect representation of his ability, but it’s certainly enough to say with a lot of confidence that he was a pretty awful defender last year.

Even so, do you really think your “The Phillies gave him a glove, so he must be a passable defender” carries any kind of clout? Was Juan Pierre a passable hitter because the White Sox let him come up to bat 711 times? Was Bronson Arroyo a passable pitcher because he was given 32 starts?

by Lord Duggan on Feb 19, 2012 9:17 PM EST up reply actions  

you all must fail to even read what i said in my post….. for the third time…. i said…. IBANEZ DISPLAYED HE CAN PLAY THE FIELD FOR 130 GAMES AND DAMON DID NOT…..where in that sentence does it say anything about ibanez quality of fielding?!

by capz1990 on Feb 19, 2012 9:23 PM EST up reply actions  

So, if I took a cardboard cutout of a person and put it in left field, it would be more valuable to the team (because of defensive value) than a real live person who was just asked to DH? Ignoring the quality of play makes the entire point nonexistent.

by Lord Duggan on Feb 19, 2012 9:31 PM EST up reply actions  

..... ugh

but theres no measure of quality of play for damon at all…. cuz he didnt play left field for that amount of games… we dont know what he would have done for an extended period of time… because… he didnt do it… he have something to show for ibanez… we have nothing to measure what damon would do…. thats the point

by capz1990 on Feb 19, 2012 9:34 PM EST up reply actions  

That’s basically commenting language for “I surrender”

Follow me on twitter @nyybrandonc

Co-Manager/Writer for Pinstripe Alley, Editor/Writer for Blueshirt Banter, Writer for On The Banks

by Brandon C. on Feb 19, 2012 9:53 PM EST up reply actions  

Mommy’s alright, daddy’s alright, they just seem a little weird.

Romine!

by david d on Feb 19, 2012 10:00 PM EST up reply actions  

Well played

Follow me on twitter @nyybrandonc

Co-Manager/Writer for Pinstripe Alley, Editor/Writer for Blueshirt Banter, Writer for On The Banks

by Brandon C. on Feb 19, 2012 10:52 PM EST up reply actions  

This is classic signature material.

I dare you to challenge Al Yellon.

You have been banned from Bleed Cubbie Blue.
I see a long moderation log here for you. You've worn out your welcome in just about the entire AL East, including your own home team! Congratulations, you've started on the NL Central. Goodbye.

by SandalsNoPants on Feb 19, 2012 9:02 PM EST up reply actions  

UZR is a piece of the puzzle

Not everything, but a piece of it for sure. If you say it doesn’t matter, that is like me saying OPS+ doesn’t matter for offense or smooth Jazz and a drunk elephant don’t matter for sexual intimacy.

I know where I come from, and when you always have in mind where you come from the rest will be easy. I think the rest will be easy.

-- M. Rivera

by GMan83201 on Feb 19, 2012 9:08 PM EST up reply actions  

uzr and those statistics are different then your tradition BA, sluggin pct, etc.. those are based on actual averages of performance on the field, measureable aspects… uzr and these other metrics involve self imposed criteria for what is considered an “average player” or a “replacement player” i dont know thats just my opinion… lol some people like to use it some don’t

by capz1990 on Feb 19, 2012 9:12 PM EST up reply actions  

I think most people who like to get an idea on the value of players and the different aspects of them

use stats like UZR and other advanced metrics.

I dare you to challenge Al Yellon.

You have been banned from Bleed Cubbie Blue.
I see a long moderation log here for you. You've worn out your welcome in just about the entire AL East, including your own home team! Congratulations, you've started on the NL Central. Goodbye.

by SandalsNoPants on Feb 19, 2012 9:15 PM EST up reply actions  

Kind of a moot point

…because Damon is chasing 3,000 hits and he doesn’t want to go somewhere where he’d only get 200-250 at bats. And he wants more money than the Yankees are interested in spending on this role.

I prefer Ibanez of the two simply because I don’t think this role is all that important and Ibanez is easier to get rid of if he’s terrible than Damon would be.

by Let's Talk About Tex Baby on Feb 19, 2012 10:11 PM EST reply actions  

Raul Ibanez is absofuckingloutely terrible in the outfield.

a halftarded blind parrot could field better then him

Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows

by Rorschach44 on Feb 19, 2012 11:38 PM EST reply actions  

I'd def take Ibanez

Although he’s been a horrible fielder for years (remember him dropping balls when he was with the M’s a while back too), his bat does have more power, prefer him over Damon.

I have a man-crush on Anisimov
Every time McDonagh plays a game in a Rangers jersey, a Canadiens fan sets a car on fire.
"I'm not a screamer or yeller. If I would try to scream and yell at people, it's not what I'd naturally do. So if I tried to do that, it would be awkward, I think." - Eli Manning

by Tripodi on Feb 20, 2012 4:13 AM EST reply actions  

Russell Branyon

I’m hoping Russell Branyon has an “el Chato” type ST and becomes the LDH.

by alouishes on Feb 20, 2012 5:10 PM EST reply actions  

Damon

They should have signed Damon

by dj3kman on Feb 23, 2012 7:34 AM EST reply actions   1 recs

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