It's Now or Never For Phil Hughes
A.J. Burnett was just shipped to Pittsburgh. I don't know how Cashman got a team to pay 13 million of his salary- whether it was his manipulative negotiating skills, or if he planted drugs in the Pirate GM's office just before they started negotiating, or if the Pirates are flat out stupid. But it's done. And unless somebody fails a physical (and I apologize, but I can't help but hoping a little bit that this happens), A.J. Burnett will not be reporting to Tampa tomorrow.
But this post is not about AJ, nor is it about those two throw in prospects the Yankees got that will likely never reach the major leagues. I remember that one of their names was Diego, because I like that name. Thats about all I'm going to remember. No, this post is about Phillip Joseph Hughes.
First, a little history review. Phillip was the Yankees first round pick back in the 2004 draft and he did nothing but look absolutely Philthy through the minor leagues. His total minor league stats as a Yankee are as follows...
Phil Hughes Minor Leagues: 32-8, 2.35 ERA, 344 innings pitched, 234 hits, 11 HR, 85 walks, 385 strikeouts
Basic stats obviously (fangraphs for minor leaguers please), but still easy to tell how Philthy he was. Those stats are good for a K/9 of 10, a BB/9 of 2.2, and a HR/9 of 0.3. It's easy to see why people expected Phillip to be an ace. Just for fun, here are a couple minor league comparisons for Phillip.
Player A: 24-9, 2.98 ERA, 296.1 innings pitched, 259 hits, 25 HR, 56 walks, 251 K, 7.6 K/9, 1.7 BB/9, 0.8 HR/9
Player B: 41-35, 3.84 ERA, 638 innings pitched, 628 hits, 54 HR, 209 walks, 417 K, 5.9 K/9, 2.9 BB/9, 0.8 HR/9
Hughes was better in the minors than both these starters in every single pitching category. The only one where he gets beaten is Player A has him beat in BB/9. Thats it.
If you're interested, here's Player A, and here's Player B. Now after the jump to continue history review...
OK, we all know how dominant he was in the minors. But that doesn't matter if it can't be translated. Phil Hughes has had a difficult start to his major league career, there's no doubt about that. People who expected him to be an ace have been very disappointed. Hughes has compiled a 7.2 WAR so far in his young career, but managed only a 0.7 last season as the least productive starting pitcher on the staff.
Hughes' best moments as a Yankee came in 2009 and early 2010. After being in the rotation earlier in 2009, he was sent to and he stabilized a bullpen that was having Jose Veras pitch meaningful innings. He earned the setup role and absolutely excelled. He was throwing hard, throwing strikes and looking very confident. He finished 2009 with a 3.03 ERA, but the K/9 of over 10 and the walk rate in the twos were what was most impressive about that season. He was throwing strikes and putting hitters away.
Then came 2010, his first full season as a starter. The first half and the second half were very different. Whether it was because he ran out of gas or hitters figured him out or he didn't work as hard or whatever it was. But the season numbers were still very solid mid-rotation numbers. He finished with a 4.19 ERA, 4.25 FIP and a 4.13 xFIP. The control stayed where it was from the previous season. The only concerning thing was the dramatic decrease in strikeouts, going from a K/9 of over 10 in 2009 to a K/9 of 7.45 in 2010. And it showed too, especially in the second half where he had difficulty missing bats. But he finished with less than a hit per inning, was dominating in the clinching ALDS game against the Twins and despite failing miserably in the ALCS, had a very solid first season as as starter, compiling a total WAR of 2.5.
Then in 2011, he fell apart. He came into camp out of shape, had no velocity on his fastball, then had to go on the DL for months with a "dead arm" before coming back. This is where he lost the confidence of many Yankee fans. The once "can't miss" prospect had an ERA of 5.79, a BABIP against him of .304, a BAA of .277, an increased walk rate and a severely decreased strikeout rate. An injury in September ended his season as a starer, and he came in relief during his lone playoff appearance in the Tigers clinching Game 5.
Well thats his story. His total major league numbers thus far are as follows...
36-23, 443.2 innings pitched, 7.51 K/9, 3.18 BB/9, 4.46 ERA, and a fWAR of 7.2.
When looking at his numbers and watching him pitch, his biggest problem that he needs to correct to me is clear. He struggles putting hitters way. He gets to two strikes, then he can't put them away and they work long ABs. The longer an AB is, the more likely it is a pitcher makes a mistake and gets hit. The period in the bullpen when he was dominant and then the first half of 2010, he was putting hitters away quickly. He had his best results then. He needs to figure out how to do that again. Whether it's adding a sharper breaking ball or coming up with a new pitch or changing his approach in order to be more deceptive, he can't let hitters constantly foul balls away until they get one to hit. That to me seems to be his biggest problem. And it's correctable.
Everything we've heard says that Hughes has worked ridiculously hard this offseason to get himself in shape. I hope it's true. Now that Burnett is gone that fifth starter spot should undeniably be his. If Freddy Garcia gets it over him I'll be fuming. But this former can't miss prospect isn't a prospect anymore. He's gonna be 26 years old and he's getting ready to enter free agency in a couple years. The ability is still there. You don't pitch 344 innings of dominating ball in the minor leagues by luck or accident. All is not lost for him. He can still turn it around. It wouldn't be the first time a pitcher has turned it around after a difficult start to his career. And since everyone seems to love mystery player comparisons, here's one now. Here are the first 4 years of each of these respective players careers. One is a mystery player, and then there's Hughes. The pitcher I'm comparing him to was always a starter while Hughes spent lots of time out of the bullpen, so that accounts for the small difference in WAR.
Please note: I am NOT trying to compare Hughes to this pitcher to say that he's going to become who this man is. This is merely evidence to point out that pitchers have turned careers around after a difficult start. And I like mystery player comparisons.
Mystery Player:
Season 1: 3-3, 52 innings pitched, 7.57 K/9, 3.44 BB/9, 3.61 ERA, 4.35 FIP, 0.7 WAR
Season 2: 14-8, 179 innings pitched, 8.09 K/9, 4.09 BB/9, 5.43 ERA, 4.97 FIP, 1.5 WAR
Season 3: 18-5, 202 innings pitched, 6.37 K/9, 2.32 BB/9, 3.79 ERA, 3.79 FIP, 4.0 WAR
Season 4: 14-11, 200.2 innings pitched, 5.79 K/9, 2.60 BB/9, 4.40 ERA, 4.73 FIP, 2.4 WAR
Season 5: 5-8, 97.1 innings pitched, 6.10 K/9, 3.33 BB/9, 6.29 ERA, 5.48 FIP, 0.2 WAR
Total WAR: 8.8
Phil Hughes:
2007: 5-3, 72.2 innings pitched, 7.18 K/9, 3.59 BB/9, 4.46 ERA, 4.35 FIP, 1.1 WAR
2008: 0-4, 34 innings pitched, 6.09 K/9, 3.97 BB/9, 6.62 ERA, 4.34 FIP, 0.5 WAR
2009: 8-3, 86 innings pitched, 10.05 K/9, 2.93 BB/9, 3.03 ERA, 3.23 FIP, 2.4 WAR
2010: 18-8, 176 innings pitched, 7.45 K/9, 2.96 BB/9, 4.19 ERA, 4.25 FIP, 2.5 WAR
2011: 5-5, 74.2 innings pitched, 5.67 K/9, 3.25 BB/9, 5.79 ERA, 4.58 FIP, 0.7 WAR
Total WAR: 7.2
But the Yankee fan base and the team may be running out of patience. If he wants to stay a Yankee for a long time, he needs to start translating that minor league dominance to the majors in 2012.
It's now or never for Phil Hughes. Here is the Mystery Player.
Oh, and here's this. Have a nice weekend.
63 comments
|
1 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
You forgot about Exicardo!
Awesome name.
Good post too (I front-paged it), I know you liked AJ so you might not have been thrilled to see him go, but I like the review of what Hughes has done and how there is hope for him yet. I know the mystery player isn’t a great comparison, but I don’t know how many other people in baseball have had as unique a career so far as Hughes. He does need to step it up in 2012 to show that he’s not going to be another 1st round pick turned flameout.
"Don't you think it's strange that you'll make more money than President Hoover this year?"
"Why not? I had a better year than he did." - G.H. Ruth
Haha
worst thing about the trade was giving up Exicardo cause of his name.
by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Feb 18, 2012 6:55 PM EST up reply actions
Thanks
And yea it’s not the best comparison but like you said, Hughes has taken a unique career path so far so I needed to find someone who took a similarly unique path. At least early on.
And yea, Exicardo is just great. Should have realized that.
"I could never wear another uniform. I will always be a Yankee"- Jorge Posada
Thanks for the memories Jorge
New guy front paging posts already? Hmmmm, looks like in letting people get too comfortable!
Follow me on twitter @nyybrandonc
Co-Manager/Writer for Pinstripe Alley, Editor/Writer for Blueshirt Banter, Writer for On The Banks
by Brandon C. on Feb 18, 2012 7:14 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I notice you are refraining from this vote
There’s nothing wrong with voting for yourself…
"I could never wear another uniform. I will always be a Yankee"- Jorge Posada
Thanks for the memories Jorge
I think we need to get over the meme that "no one should pay AJ $13 over 2"
1. The reality is that $6.5 million for a reliable middle of the rotation free agent starter is something that 20 teams would be up for. Especially teams that gave up nothing they perceived to be substantial in return. Paul Maholm is getting $5 million next year. Joe Saunders (who AJ is clearly better than) is getting $6 million.
2. The Pirates are so poorly run and uncompetitive that FA like Roy Oswalt would rather not sign with a team than play there.
3. Going from the AL East to the NL Central is going to increase his performance substantially, either from weaker competition, lower pressure, whatever.
AJ is worth it at the price the Pirates are paying. He’s just not worth the price the Yankees were paying. Hence, he’s gone.
On point 2
Because the Pirates are so unattractive, a trade like this is the only way they can land a reliable SP.
by PortlandYankee on Feb 18, 2012 5:46 PM EST up reply actions
The Pirates are so poorly run
I’d strongly disagree with that statement. Huntington has been more than solid since 2007.
by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Feb 18, 2012 6:57 PM EST up reply actions
I disagree as well
They are doing their best to put together a pretty decent team. They are not the Astros.
"WHO WOULD LEAD?! THE CLOWN?!"
ImNotAHRHitter
by I'mGivingYouARaise on Feb 18, 2012 6:59 PM EST up reply actions
I don't know if you're an ESPN Insider
but the Future Power Rankings were not kind to the Pirates.
The Pirates have lost at least 90 games every year 2007-2011. Only the Orioles (worst-operated team in baseball, now that the Astros are under new leadership) can match that, though the Royals come close. Every other team has at least sniffed .500, if not had a winning record or made it to the playoffs in that span.
by PortlandYankee on Feb 18, 2012 7:37 PM EST up reply actions
I have no idea where they were coming from
Assuming Alvarez & Tony Sanchez come around, in 5 years they will have:
1. Starling Marte – CF
2. Andrew McCutchen – LF
3. Pedro Alvarez – 3B
4. Josh Bell – RF
5. VETERAN/DRAFT PICK – 1B
6. Neil Walker – 2B
7. Tony Sanchez – C
8. Chase d’Arnaud – SS
Rotation:
1. Cole
2. Taillon
3. Luis Heredia
4. James McDonald
5. RANDOM PITCHER
Pen:
Hanrahan
Allie
I’d buy into that team competing in the future. Three aces, a great outfield, a power-hitting 3B, James McDonald is pretty good, an all-star closer and a 100 mph reliever? Ya, I’d take that team in the NL Central…
by Michael Uhlhorn on Feb 18, 2012 11:06 PM EST up reply actions
There's more.
Morton can still break out too. Plus, I think Bedard ends up outperforming and bringing back at least 1 above average prospect. Rudy Owens can still pan out as a solid 3 or 4 SP. Nice future for the Pirates.
I think there’s a big break out coming from Pedro within 2 years. (who happens to be from the Bronx.)
Most arguments are really about context.
by SheaWasBettor21 on Feb 18, 2012 11:26 PM EST up reply actions
I really like Morton
he’s reinvented himself as a GB machine…just has to figure out a way to get lefties out. I’m a little cooler on Owens, I think he’s more of a 5. But their system is really on the rise, especially the fact that they have high-ceiling prospects.
by NastyNate82 on Feb 19, 2012 12:12 AM EST up reply actions
Three aces? I understand they have some great young starters in their system but that’s far far away from three aces.
They could be three aces
but you are correct, the chances of it actually happening like that are slim and none.
by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Feb 19, 2012 3:17 AM EST up reply actions
Right
they have “ace-like” potential is how it probably should read…
Only
problem is Cutch walks after 2015 if he doesn’t sign an extension which is in doubt. But 2014-2015 could be fun.
by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Feb 19, 2012 3:19 AM EST up reply actions
I am, but
I also feel I know much more about the Pirates and their farm system than anyone on ESPN. Probably a bit bold to say, but I’ll stick my neck out.
by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Feb 19, 2012 3:18 AM EST up reply actions
I agree
But with the absolute lack of interest in AJ all winter long I was surprised they got a team to pay as much as they did.
"I could never wear another uniform. I will always be a Yankee"- Jorge Posada
Thanks for the memories Jorge
13 mil
Burnett is EASILY worth 13 for 2.
Most arguments are really about context.
by SheaWasBettor21 on Feb 18, 2012 11:12 PM EST up reply actions
I think a big difference between Hughes and Lee
is that Lee had an extended period of success as a starter (2005 season), and Hughes hasn’t really had any yet.
Otherwise, fine comp, and I’m sure there’s others that can be made to fine pitchers.
FREE GUYER!
Cliff Lee is a highly atypical career path
by benderbrodriguez on Feb 18, 2012 6:59 PM EST reply actions
It sure is
And I’m not expecting Hughes to take that path and become as good as him. It was simply to point out that a bad start doesn’t mean you can’t turn it around.
"I could never wear another uniform. I will always be a Yankee"- Jorge Posada
Thanks for the memories Jorge
This.
Lee offers zero perspective as a comp for soft tossing righty in the Bronx with 2 major league caliber pitches. It’s a silly comp in almost any context.
Most arguments are really about context.
by SheaWasBettor21 on Feb 18, 2012 11:29 PM EST up reply actions
The point wasn't to compare them
I realize he’s taken an odd career path and I’m not expecting Hughes to turn out like Lee in any way. My point with that was that some pitchers, including great pitchers, can have a difficult start to a career and to turn it around. Thats all I was trying to show with that.
"I could never wear another uniform. I will always be a Yankee"- Jorge Posada
Thanks for the memories Jorge
Enjoyed the article.
But, there are better ways to convey your point than referencing an extreme outlier, who happens to utilize a skill set that offers a much higher probability of a late break out.
Most arguments are really about context.
by SheaWasBettor21 on Feb 18, 2012 11:43 PM EST up reply actions
I only took 30 minutes to write this!!!
Haha but seriously, any suggestions to a player who would have been a better comparison? I’m sure there are some out there but I didn’t really spend that much time to look. Lee just kind of popped into my head as a guy who didn’t turn into who he was until later on, so I used that.
"I could never wear another uniform. I will always be a Yankee"- Jorge Posada
Thanks for the memories Jorge
Matt Cain
Adjust stats for division and park and they’re clones.
Most arguments are really about context.
by SheaWasBettor21 on Feb 19, 2012 3:48 PM EST up reply actions
Lee is a terrible comparison tho, even Halladay
Since both guys were sent to the minors and eventually revamped their mechanics pitching style and everything before becoming an ace. I highly doubt the yanks will do that with hughes
Nice article...
Thumbs up :)
"Performance comes from work and dedication, belief and strength. Words and excuses get you nowhere." -Jason Heyward, Atlanta Braves Rightfielder
Oh.
The general attitude of the preceding comment is frowned upon by upper management.
#JEDI4PSA
by Jedi Master A-Rod on Feb 18, 2012 7:49 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
x

The general attitude of the preceding comment is frowned upon by upper management.
#JEDI4PSA
by Jedi Master A-Rod on Feb 18, 2012 8:44 PM EST up reply actions
Oh?
Follow me on twitter @nyybrandonc
Co-Manager/Writer for Pinstripe Alley, Editor/Writer for Blueshirt Banter, Writer for On The Banks
Yes. Oh.
The general attitude of the preceding comment is frowned upon by upper management.
#JEDI4PSA
by Jedi Master A-Rod on Feb 18, 2012 10:40 PM EST up reply actions
Why oh?
Follow me on twitter @nyybrandonc
Co-Manager/Writer for Pinstripe Alley, Editor/Writer for Blueshirt Banter, Writer for On The Banks
x
![]()
The general attitude of the preceding comment is frowned upon by upper management.
#JEDI4PSA
by Jedi Master A-Rod on Feb 18, 2012 10:58 PM EST up reply actions
I mean seriously, what do you want?
"Don't you think it's strange that you'll make more money than President Hoover this year?"
"Why not? I had a better year than he did." - G.H. Ruth
I want people to use their brain for a few seconds here…it really isn’t that difficult to figure out.
The general attitude of the preceding comment is frowned upon by upper management.
#JEDI4PSA
by Jedi Master A-Rod on Feb 19, 2012 11:12 AM EST up reply actions
Brain?
Follow me on twitter @nyybrandonc
Co-Manager/Writer for Pinstripe Alley, Editor/Writer for Blueshirt Banter, Writer for On The Banks
by Brandon C. on Feb 19, 2012 1:55 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
The Yankees and young pitchers
will basically never work out because they won’t be patient with them. They’ve been jerking Hughes in and out of the rotation for several years…that isn’t really conducive to him developing as a starting pitcher, especially if they want him to expand his arsenal. Kind of like another starting pitching prospect they screwed up a couple years ago, isn’t it?
Unless a pitcher comes in and is lights out from the get-go, the Yanks are not going to let young pitchers take their lumps as most pitchers are likely to do. Hughes’ career path isn’t really that surprising; his innings in 2010 in NY jumped by over 75 from 2009 (counting his 09 major/minor league innings together). Counting the playoffs, the innings increase is even more than that. Pitchers often either show ineffectiveness or take a step back after their first trek through a long season. Since pitchers are so volatile and often take a while to figure it out (even great ones like Halladay), that kind of puts them at odds with a constant win-now mentality of the Yankees.
Context
The Yankees will never consistently develop arms because of the park and the division. If he came up with the Dodgers, we’d all be wondering if he can bounce back to elite, instead of just solid. Nova would already post ace stats in the NL West. Instead, you guys are wondering if he’s even a #3.
The only hope for home grown pitching in the Bronx is to stack the farm with high beta arms like Campos and pray for a %10+ success rate.
Most arguments are really about context.
by SheaWasBettor21 on Feb 18, 2012 11:22 PM EST up reply actions
They've already screwed up the high-beta arms
like Chamberlain. Everyone talks about him being overrated now, but to me, thats not true…he was just woefully mishandled. Thru July 2009, his first full year as a starter, he had an ERA of 3.60 and had fanned 101 in 111 innings. Thats when the bizarre stretch of 3 inning starts occurred in an effort to keep his innings down, which bordered on ridiculous. Either way, with those numbers he posted in the first 4 months of the season, in that park, in that division…thats some pretty great production out of a guy in his first full season as a starting pitcher.
As for your argument about the park and division being factors…I think the division is more of a factor than the park. For all the talk about Burnett being plagued by Yankee Stadium, he gave up 42 HR at home, and 39 on the road.
by NastyNate82 on Feb 19, 2012 12:10 AM EST up reply actions
Awesome
Paying a major league pitcher to pitch for another team for 20 million over 2 years is a great deal. Regardless what you say, I can’t be more cynical.
It's a better deal.
And that’s the point.
was the new ghost rider movie any good?
FREE GUYER!
by SandalsNoPants on Feb 19, 2012 12:36 PM EST up reply actions
It was not
"WHO WOULD LEAD?! THE CLOWN?!"
ImNotAHRHitter
by I'mGivingYouARaise on Feb 19, 2012 2:04 PM EST up reply actions
Thanks
How about compared to the first one?
I was really looking forward to hearing about this from Johnny Blaze, himself, though.
I dare you to challenge Al Yellon.
You have been banned from Bleed Cubbie Blue.
I see a long moderation log here for you. You've worn out your welcome in just about the entire AL East, including your own home team! Congratulations, you've started on the NL Central. Goodbye.
by SandalsNoPants on Feb 19, 2012 2:39 PM EST up reply actions
I find it more enjoyable than the first
Mainly cause Nic Cage is crazier in this one. But it’s still a bad movie.
"WHO WOULD LEAD?! THE CLOWN?!"
ImNotAHRHitter
by I'mGivingYouARaise on Feb 19, 2012 2:49 PM EST up reply actions
The advanced ones too?
I haven’t seen them. Usually I can only find basic stats for minor league numbers when I look on there.
"I could never wear another uniform. I will always be a Yankee"- Jorge Posada
Thanks for the memories Jorge

by 







































