Should The New York Yankees Trade From Their Pitching Depth?
by Brandon C. on Feb 14, 2012 3:30 PM EST
in New York Yankees Analysis
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PrintUpdate: The Yankees appear to be in the mix for Cuban outfielder Jorge Soler, whom I would prefer over any trade candidates. It was believed that Soler was going to sign with the Chicago Cubs, but that report his since been shot down.
The New York Yankees made a classic depth for depth trade earlier this off-season when they dealt prized catching prospect Jesus Montero to the Seattle Mariners for their own prized starting pitcher, Michael Pineda. The thinking within the Yankees organization was that the team had enough depth at the catching position to allow for the loss of Montero.
One reason many opposed the Montero trade was that the Yankees had enough pitching depth to make a trade for a starting pitcher unnecessary. Take that depth, add Michael Pineda, and the Yankees now have a huge abundance of starting pitchers, which is a great problem to have.
The Yankees have "untouchables" in CC Sabathia, Michael Pineda, Ivan Nova, and Hiroki Kuroda, "fringe, but not likely to be traded" pitchers in Freddy Garcia and Phil Hughes, and "youngsters" Adam Warren, David Phelps, and even Graham Stoneburner. Add Manny Banuelos and Dellin Betances to the mix, and the Yankees have eleven pitchers that could be in the five man rotation in the next couple of years.
For the future, we can rule out Hiroki Kuroda and Freddy Garcia. Kuroda is likely a one to two year Yankee, while Garcia is almost certainly in his last season with the team. (Not talking contracts, talking likelihood of future signing with team.) Those two will be replaced by Stoneburner, Banuelos, Betances, and any other prospects that shoot through the system.
So, the Yankees have a lot of pitching depth. That is not a problem at all, but could it be a solution for the Yankees outfield of the future? Follow me after the jump for more.
The idea that the Yankees should trade from their pitching depth is a risky one, as there is no way to know who will pan out and who won't. (I did not even include A.J. Burnett on the list of pitchers: His is one case of the Yankees (presumably) trading from depth.)
However, when the team has that many starters that are likely to contribute, it makes it a bit easier to lose one or two of them in a trade for a position of need.
The current position of need for the Yankees is a young outfielder, with Curtis Granderson likely needing a contract extension soon, and Nick Swisher's contract running out after the season.
If Andre Ethier, Domonic Brown, or any other outfielder becomes available, the Yankees should take a long look at the possibility of offering one or two of their pitchers, along with a couple of minor prospects, for the outfielder.
There is no need to trade from depth, it is a great asset to have, but if the right deal is there, the Yankees are in a great position with the current state of the staff.
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I’ll update this in a minute but I prefer Soler over any trade
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Co-Manager/Writer for Pinstripe Alley, Editor/Writer for Blueshirt Banter, Writer for On The Banks
by Brandon C. on Feb 14, 2012 3:33 PM EST via mobile reply actions
I wouldn’t worry about trading for an outfielder. There are always solid candidates in free agency every year. Soler is a great option. I think there are a number of guys on the farm as well from Mason to Slade who can develop. I haven’t given up on De Leon, Mesa or Sosa either. What the team needs is a left side of the infield, specifically a shortstop. Texas has some of my favorites and I would give up quite a bit to get one of them. That’s where the focus should be, if any trades are made at all.
It's that the world is basically a forced labor camp from which the workers, perfectly innocent, are led forth by lottery, a few each day, to be executed.
I don't think that's just the way I see it. I think that's the way it is. Are there alternative views? Yes. Will any of them stand close scrutiny? No.
by memitim on Feb 14, 2012 3:51 PM EST via mobile reply actions
The downside with Mason Williams and Slade Heathcott is that they're not yet MLB-ready
If Swish leaves, he’ll have to be replaced next year. I’m not sure if Williams or Heathcott will be ready to be an everyday starter next season.
No, neither will be ready. I think they will work something out with Swish and if not the FA market has a lot of options from All Star level players to guys like Michael Bourn or Shane Victorino that can be cheaper, shorter term solutions. The most challenging spot to fill will be SS in the years to come, especially with the new rules being put in place on the draft and international signings.
It's that the world is basically a forced labor camp from which the workers, perfectly innocent, are led forth by lottery, a few each day, to be executed.
I don't think that's just the way I see it. I think that's the way it is. Are there alternative views? Yes. Will any of them stand close scrutiny? No.
by memitim on Feb 14, 2012 4:17 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
i agree that the yankees will work out a deal with swish
Swish loves playing in New York and I think he would definitely to negotiate and give a decent hometown discount. Maybe a three-four year deal worth $8MM/year?
Boone Logan is a good boy. So is David Robertson. Team A.J.
Yeah, if he is solid this year a three year deal sounds right. I love what Swisher brings to the clubhouse.
It's that the world is basically a forced labor camp from which the workers, perfectly innocent, are led forth by lottery, a few each day, to be executed.
I don't think that's just the way I see it. I think that's the way it is. Are there alternative views? Yes. Will any of them stand close scrutiny? No.
by memitim on Feb 14, 2012 6:08 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
If he has yet another awful postseason, I could see the Yanks moving on
Should you choose to test my resolve in this matter, you will be facing a finality beyond your comprehension, and you will not be counting days, or months, or years, but milleniums in a place with no doors.
Well, he is going to make 10.25mm this year. Chances are pretty slim that if he has another good year, he would make less in his next contract.
by MichaelGGBGrabow on Feb 15, 2012 6:20 PM EST up reply actions
Agreed
There is no way a top- tier shortstop prospect is available at this point though. And the Yanks already have a second level guy in Nunez. So while it would be nice to get a SS, can’t see how we get one.
Then again, wouldn’t have thought Pineda level starters would have been available either.
by ArunK on Feb 14, 2012 4:05 PM EST via iPhone app up reply actions
Yeah, I think the Yanks need another catcher besides Sanchez to take a big leap forward this year. They have a few and catchers with upper level potential can be packaged with some good pitching for a top tier SS.
It's that the world is basically a forced labor camp from which the workers, perfectly innocent, are led forth by lottery, a few each day, to be executed.
I don't think that's just the way I see it. I think that's the way it is. Are there alternative views? Yes. Will any of them stand close scrutiny? No.
by memitim on Feb 14, 2012 4:28 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I think we should trade a starter in the future, if that's what makes sense
I could see trading Nova or maybe even Pineda in a couple of years, if such a deal would bring back the right player(s). Imagine if Pineda, Nova, and Hughes (or even two out of three) progress the way we’re all hoping. You’re looking at a future rotation of CC/Pineda/Nova/Hughes/Top Prospect, with who know how many guys backing them up. If they trade one of those middle three guys and either give two of the current prospects a chance, or even one prospect plus a Kuroda-like signing, they can snag a top position player to fill some future need.
by long time listener on Feb 14, 2012 3:59 PM EST reply actions
Then it becomes a discussion of when you want to make the trade
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Co-Manager/Writer for Pinstripe Alley, Editor/Writer for Blueshirt Banter, Writer for On The Banks
I'd be in favor of it after this season, if the need arose
I guess I’m in favor of trading from strength whenever it’s right. If we can get a good deal for a solid, young, cost-controlled OF (at a minimum), then I’d be willing to trade one of the minor league talent for that. You’d think Nova or Pineda, after a couple of good years, would fetch even more, so if we decide to re-sign Swisher for a couple of years and then need another OF (or need another position player), then I’m willing to move one of those guys.
by long time listener on Feb 14, 2012 4:13 PM EST up reply actions
If there is a chance AJ takes a rotation spot from Hughes or god forbid Nova he needs to go.
Otherwise the pitching depth, with 6 starters and Phelps/Warren in AAA, plus hopefully the killer-B’s will pitch their way into consideration for a big league spot by midseason. Which is good because unless you’re the 2004 Red Sox you’ll need surplus pitching over 162 games.
by ArunK on Feb 14, 2012 4:02 PM EST via iPhone app reply actions
Trade any pitcher
Named AJ Burnett. Give the others a chance. Don’t allow AJ to take any innings the other guys could use.
by Southern Yankee boy on Feb 14, 2012 4:07 PM EST reply actions
Sigh, this isn’t about Burnett
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Co-Manager/Writer for Pinstripe Alley, Editor/Writer for Blueshirt Banter, Writer for On The Banks
As long as he is taking up a spot on our roster it is.
by Southern Yankee boy on Feb 14, 2012 4:13 PM EST up reply actions
What's harder to come by??
Trading pitching for hitting in any instance is a poor idea…especially when the Yankees play in the biggest market in baseball and can anchor their team through free agency at the drop of a dime…Our rotation is getting scary good and if things are promising in the farm there is no reason to jeopardize that now when development is still occuring…
Puttiing a spin on things…if we had Pineda and traded him for Montero, how would you have reacted? Big bats are easily found but young talented pitching can be hard to come by…Sit on the farm is my take – let it be just let it beeeee
Should The New York Yankees Trade From Their Pitching Depth?
No.
Not right now. Unless Cash pulls something very special out of a deep dark place.
"You’ve got to be very careful if you don’t know where you’re going because you might not get there."—Yogi Berra
Soler adds upside and a top 20-50 prospect depending on the source, but he’s still a teenager and the likelihood of him being ready before the Yankees have a need at the ML level is slim.
Contributing writer for Pinstripe Alley.
Follow me on Twitter @frankiecamp48
by Frank Campagnola on Feb 14, 2012 4:55 PM EST reply actions
+1
You can read my thoughts on all things New York sports at SNYWhyGuys.com
Minor League/Prospect writer for Pinstripe Alley
Check out Minor Developments on Yahoo! for additional prospect coverage
by Rob Steingall on Feb 14, 2012 4:58 PM EST up reply actions
might take a while
but adding outfield depth at a position of need without having to trade anybody away is probably a better use of AJ money than signing a pensioner…
"You’ve got to be very careful if you don’t know where you’re going because you might not get there."—Yogi Berra
I thought he’s the type to start at AA, no? I wouldn’t mind signing Soler and making a trade, actually.
Follow me on twitter @nyybrandonc
Co-Manager/Writer for Pinstripe Alley, Editor/Writer for Blueshirt Banter, Writer for On The Banks
He’s basically Gary Sanchez’s age. He’d be very, very young at AA.
Tweets
"Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose, sometimes it rains"
by WhatwouldJeterdo on Feb 14, 2012 5:20 PM EST up reply actions
I’ve been in support of a Soler signing for a while. He makes a lot of sense in a lot of ways. He’s a top prospect who upgrades outfield depth immensely, meanwhile they only spend money on him and this may be the last time they can use their money in the International market without being capped due to the new CBA.
This is a risk the Yankees absolutely must take.
Contributing writer for Pinstripe Alley.
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by Frank Campagnola on Feb 14, 2012 10:57 PM EST up reply actions
Do you think he would immediately become the top OF prospect in the system?
I can’t say I know much about him other than that he supposedly has a lot of potential and could maybe be a younger version of Cespedes?
"Don't you think it's strange that you'll make more money than President Hoover this year?"
"Why not? I had a better year than he did." - G.H. Ruth
Depends on the source. Keith Law is really high on Mason Williams (number 36 on his list), and I don’t know what his feelings on Soler are. I’ve also seen Williams number as the number 99 prospect on a list.
On the other hand, I’ve seen Jim Callis of Baseball America say Soler would be a top 11-20 prospect in baseball and most sources have him in the 20-50 range.
I think he’d probably end up being the top outfield prospect in the system. He’s filled out at 6’3", 205 lbs and has explosive bat speed. The power potential is there and many believe he has the speed to play center, so he’s a greta prospect.
Williams has five tool potential too, but I’d place bets on scouts taking Soler over Williams.
Contributing writer for Pinstripe Alley.
Follow me on Twitter @frankiecamp48
by Frank Campagnola on Feb 15, 2012 2:33 AM EST up reply actions
I’m a bit confused why you have Stoneburner listed with Phelps & Warren… he was in AA last year. Why would you mention him before say, D.J. Mitchell?
"Don't you think it's strange that you'll make more money than President Hoover this year?"
"Why not? I had a better year than he did." - G.H. Ruth
D.J. Mitchell is overrated, I don’t consider him a real option for the rotation for the future
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Co-Manager/Writer for Pinstripe Alley, Editor/Writer for Blueshirt Banter, Writer for On The Banks
I realize that.
He’s still closer to the big leagues than Stoneburner though and you put him in with Phelps & Warren, who are both likely MLB-ready.
"Don't you think it's strange that you'll make more money than President Hoover this year?"
"Why not? I had a better year than he did." - G.H. Ruth
Then I later put him in the Manny/Dellin group
Those two will be replaced by Stoneburner, Banuelos, Betances, and any other prospects that shoot through the system.
That’s where he belongs. Mitchell doesn’t belong at all
Follow me on twitter @nyybrandonc
Co-Manager/Writer for Pinstripe Alley, Editor/Writer for Blueshirt Banter, Writer for On The Banks
lol.
I'm a bad example for the kids at home according to people on the Internet.
#JEDI4PSA
by Jedi Master A-Rod on Feb 14, 2012 7:43 PM EST up reply actions
A prospect for prospect trade seems ideal.
Dominic Brown is the type of player I would like to acquire if I’m trading those pitching prospects.
by E-ROC on Feb 14, 2012 5:45 PM EST via Android app reply actions
Eh...
None of those pitching prospects would fetch Dom Brown singlehandedly.
"Don't you think it's strange that you'll make more money than President Hoover this year?"
"Why not? I had a better year than he did." - G.H. Ruth
Why?
With the exception of AJ (please get him off the team, please!) the Yankees don’t need to do anything right now. Let’s get to Spring Training and see how things shake out. If the need arises do something, but lets just see what these guys can do. Unless Cash is blown away by a deal, just stand pat.
I suppose the best idea would be to wait for Betances’ value to get at its highest, but the Yankees could also buy low on certain outfielders right now if made available
Follow me on twitter @nyybrandonc
Co-Manager/Writer for Pinstripe Alley, Editor/Writer for Blueshirt Banter, Writer for On The Banks
If the Yankees were going to make a move to add depth they needed to do it during the 2010 offseason after basically every notable prospect made big-to-significant strides. The farm system had a sick year.
Now after 2011, most of those guys came back to Earth while getting another year older.
Contributing writer for Pinstripe Alley.
Follow me on Twitter @frankiecamp48
by Frank Campagnola on Feb 14, 2012 7:14 PM EST reply actions
trade pitching for outfielder's
I would go with Soler over trading away any pitching until we see what this season brings as far as result’s and injuries.
infield/outfield future
I would hazard a guess that Swisher is in his final yr as a Yank,I’m not a fan of his.Esp. cc his post season production.I don’t know if the minor leaque talent will be ready by next yr. or this season if Swisher,or any of the other’s go down from injury.I would think with the aging left side of the infield,that the Yanks may need to use some of their surplus ? pitching talent to acquire some backup in the event what they now have in the farm system isn’t ready for the Show. Or maybe the checkbook will open in the event Help is needed.??
If he can be had with any kind of a "hometown discount" deal...
then he’s totally worth keeping around. His WAR’s been above the league average all three years that he’s been in New York, his wOBA has been well above league average, he has power from both sides of the plate, and he’s improved defensively since 2009. Why wouldn’t they keep him around, if the price is right?
Push for Either
Is Jorge Soler Major League ready? I Don’t know much about him. I know Andre Either and Josh Hamilton are on the open market next off-season if we want to let Swisher go or possibly move Gardner. I think making the move for Either is a good idea regardless of the luxury tax concerns. He’s a 2 time all-star and a career .291 hitter and he has over 200 games played in left field if we do re-sign Swisher.
Not even close, really. He’s only 19 years old.
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by WhatwouldJeterdo on Feb 14, 2012 8:22 PM EST up reply actions
Ethier and Hamilton are bad investments
Ethier because he’s just not that good and Hamilton because he’s older and he spends a lot of time on the DL. Both of them are going to be looking for huge deals and neither is worth it imo.
by Let's Talk About Tex Baby on Feb 15, 2012 1:47 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Because of what he did last year.
"There is no room in baseball for discrimination. It is our national pastime and a game for all." - Henry Louis "Lou" Gehrig
I would say for the Yankees he’s untouchable. I’d let him go in the right trade.
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Co-Manager/Writer for Pinstripe Alley, Editor/Writer for Blueshirt Banter, Writer for On The Banks
I don't really think you can say any Yankee who's arb-eligible is untouchable.
Cashman has shown that if given the right deal, he will move anyone. I don’t think Nova’s going anywhere, but it’s certainly not ridiculous.
"Don't you think it's strange that you'll make more money than President Hoover this year?"
"Why not? I had a better year than he did." - G.H. Ruth
I’m actually in favor of keeping A.J., but what I’ve been speculating is one of the sources of the desire to trade him is to open up money space to sign Soler. The Yankees would be making a great investment into their future by signing Soler, and if they can move A.J. and get money back, it would be a win win.
If Swisher puts up a good to great numbers this year there’s no way we can sign him at a “hometown discount.” This is likely his last big payday as a starting outfielder and he’s not likely to turn that down. Add that with the goal to cut the payroll down to 189 million, the odds of signing a major outfielder is also very low next offseason. So it is very likely that Cashman will work the trade wires for our next RF until the Williams/Heathcott’s of the world are major league ready. I can see Cashman digging through rocks for gold like he did with Granderson. So it is very likely Warren/Mitchell/Phelps will be traded between this season and next to fill in this potential space. We have a surplus in pitching prospects and no space for all of them.
CC – Pineda – Nova are locks for the next couple years. Then you can add Hughes to that mix to if he shapes up. Banuelos/Betances will most likely have priority for the last spot. Which puts the Warren/Phelps/Mitchell of the world in the same position Hector Neosi saw himself in this past year/offseason. As either an arm out the bullpen or a piece to get us something bigger
trade Pineda to Seattle for Jesus Montero
boom. Taste it.
Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows
Romine! for Montero would be a better trade for us, I agree
Somehow I don’t see Seattle doing this one…
What would it take to get Brown from the Phillies I wonder?
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I was thinking Betances, Warren or Phelps, Nunez, Heathcott, but I’m not the best at prospect trades
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by Brandon C. on Feb 15, 2012 5:52 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
yeah I also was thinking Betances, Warren AND Phelps
The Phillies system is empty and they don’t really have a reason to trade Brown, so they would have to be wowed. Maybe Campos and Williams would do it?
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