New York Yankees News & Notes
by 3460kuri on Jan 27, 2012 6:00 AM EST
in New York Yankees News
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PrintMore proof that it's better to be lucky than smart when it comes to prospects
According to a story by long-time Mariners beat writer Bob Finnigan in the Seattle Times on Dec. 4, 1995, the Mariners nixed a trade that would have sent pitcher Sterling Hitchcock and (Jorge) Posada to the Mariners for (Tino) Martinez and a reliever, either Jeff Nelson, Bill Risley, or, wait for it, Bobby Ayala...Why did the Mariners turn down the trade? Because the Yankees pulled minor-league third baseman Russ Davis -- Seattle's main target -- out of the deal.
Yikes. This reminds me of how Robinson Cano was one of the prospects-to-be-named later that the Rangers passed on while completing the Alex Rodriguez/Alfonso Soriano trade.
Yankees minor league system still strong
MLB Network has released it's top prospects list, and Manny Banuelos and Dellin Betances both rank in the top 50, while Gary Sanchez and Mason Williams both rank in the top 100.
Get used to hearing "heir to Mariano Rivera" like a borken record over the next 12 months
This LoHud piece cites David Robertson, Joba Chamberlain, and Rafael Soriano as the most logical potential successors to Rivera. Um, duh.... The "heir to Mariano" is like the heir to Michael Jordan or the heir to Jerry Rice - this person doesn't exist. The New York media hasn't had a good ol' fashioned closer controversy to write about in more than 15 years so I'm sure they'll be chomping at the bit after the first blown save of the 2013 season.
Some guy named Fielder signs for a lot of money
Everybody knows this contract is already an albatross, so there's no reason to rehash points that people have already made. However, putting his (gargantuan) weight issues aside, Prince Fielder is, statistically speaking, the worst player to ever sign a $150+ million contract. Enjoy it Detroit.
If you have a son under the age of 15, teach him to throw lefthanded
Otherwise known as, "Yankees and Boone Logan agree to 1 year, $1.875 million contract".
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I expect
Delin to come up and have more than a few good starts. Kuroda is good, but old. I dont know how much he has or how durable he is at his age. Phil Hughes and AJ dont seem to be guys that can remain healthy and consistent for a full year.
I think Delin comes up and finds his spot in the rotation. I wont be surprised if in 2013 he is a full time starter.
by Jonathan Reynoso on Jan 27, 2012 6:43 AM EST reply actions
Hope he finds his control in AAA
Certainly he’ll have a chance in 2013 if he does. Garcia and Kuroda will be gone, and AJ will be a lot easier to deal next offseason.
by ArunK on Jan 27, 2012 6:59 AM EST via iPhone app up reply actions
Disagree
“Everybody knows this contract is already an albatross, so there’s no reason to rehash points that people have already made.”
With the way the dollar is tanking, I disagree with this. When upper deck seats are $350 a pop, Fielder’s contract will look like peanuts. Let’s not pretend we know what $24 million will be worth NINE YEARS from now.
Most arguments are really about context.
by SheaWasBettor21 on Jan 27, 2012 7:17 AM EST reply actions
if upper deck seats are going for $350 in nine years, we're going to have a lot more to worry about than baseball contracts
by long time listener on Jan 27, 2012 7:38 AM EST via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
lets not pretend that highbrow economic projections
actually play a part in this. If the worth of a dollar tanks that far then the country would be broken. Fielder’s deal is ridiculous because 1. its a lot of money to give to anyone 2. its a lot of years to give to someone with that many health questions 3. The Tigers were basically in a pretend bidding war since Fielder had no clear destination and considering the Dodgers offer was 7/160, the Tigers overpaid by A LOT.
9/$214 will still be just as outlandish in 10 years as it is today.
by jetanumba2 on Jan 27, 2012 7:47 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Nationals, Orioles, Rangers, Mystery Teams
1) I don’t buy that the Dodgers were the only other bidders. I don’t know where we get this idea that player negotiations are so transparent. If anything, there is overwhelming evidence that the media is clueless about the events in this sports, both analytically and as reporters.
2) I believe $214 million dollar transactions by billionaires who own businesses worth well into the 100s of millions, factor in economic projections. Fair enough if you don’t. I don’t care enough to try to prove it.
3) “…a lot of money…” is a relative term.
Most arguments are really about context.
by SheaWasBettor21 on Jan 27, 2012 7:55 AM EST up reply actions
I know its not transparent
but we have no idea if anyone actually offered an official contract, so the only one we have is the Dodgers’ contract. I imagine we’d hear something about what other teams offered by now/in the near future but right now we don’t have any other contract. I honestly don’t think the Nationals could offer a contract and then Boras tell the Tigers about it without anything getting leaked. That’s just too many channels to go through without at least hearing about “a big contract”. Boras would have blabbed it to the media. I think Boras made up a contract that they were offered.
I completely understand that to the owner, $214 is pretty insignificant. I meant in a strictly baseball on the field sense. While the owner doesn’t care, the Tigers’ will have to deal with a $20M+ player on hogging up payroll in his late 30s. I know the Yankee Analyst article says that the pure value of Fielder throughout the contract is not the point, but I still don’t agree with giving a player that many year and that much money when they did not need to. 6-8 years would have been acceptable. If it comes out that someone else actually offered a deal in the same ballpark then fine, but I still don’t think Fielder will be worth that much money for that long.
It's Detroit.
When your team is in Detroit, you have to overpay for highly liquid assets like a Prince Fielder. The Mets had to pay Beltran at least $20 million more to get him to play in the same freaking city as his first choice.
Context is unique to each team and a very real part of the game. Rather than view this as a huge mistake, I’d view it as an interesting perspective into the economics of the Tigers and their strategic motives.
$/WAR is a mildly interesting theoretical indicator, but it’s extremely crude and a vast oversimplification of the game.
Most arguments are really about context.
by SheaWasBettor21 on Jan 27, 2012 8:18 AM EST up reply actions
I suppose we'll see what happens in 5-6 years
perhaps the increased revenue Fielder brings will make up for his declined play in that last years of the contract. But what if by year 5 he’s just a DH? Without the added value of defense (he is a decent fielder) $20M is still a lot to pay a DH in comparison to the going rate of DHs. Its a huge risk that only might payoff. The same this with A-rod, is the value he brings now worth what he might cost us in the last years of his contract? Even with all the home run record attention?
I understand.
The Tigers are working with a limited window though. They have a top 3 pitcher and a top 3 hitter in the game on the team at the same time. They unexpectedly lost an elite hitter as their DH/back up catcher.
Coming off a 95 win season and having barely missed the World Series, marginal wins are as valuable to the Tigers as they will ever be to anyone.
It’s not an ideal situation, but when it comes to a game as volatile as baseball, this is as close to it as you can hope to get.
Most arguments are really about context.
by SheaWasBettor21 on Jan 27, 2012 8:45 AM EST up reply actions
is that window really that limited though?
If they have the money to sign Fielder, then they definitely have the money to resign Cabrera and Verlander, they have a young rotation and they play in a very weak division. Fielder definitely puts them over the top, but they were probably already there anyway. Also Fielder doesn’t necessarily make them a definite for the WS. Anything can happen in the playoffs and getting to the playoffs wasn’t really a question for them since they won the division by 15 games and no one can really challenge them. A short term option could have been used in place of V-Mart, but now what happens next year when he comes back?
Devil's Advocate
I would’ve called Derrek Lee and extended Avila, but I’m guessing that wouldn’t have satisfied their new TV sponsors. Oh, and then there’s this.
He’s rich bitch. : )
Most arguments are really about context.
by SheaWasBettor21 on Jan 27, 2012 11:35 AM EST up reply actions
Additional anecdote.
The Tigers ponying up for Fielder and making a run at it like this is “great for the game”. I think this goes underestimated in the quantitative perspective of the sabermetric era.
The Rangers were bankrupt 2 years ago. This season they paid $100 million+ for a guy who’s never pitched in the majors. This is great stuff.
Most arguments are really about context.
by SheaWasBettor21 on Jan 27, 2012 8:52 AM EST up reply actions
On another subject, my money is on David Robertson as the next closer.
Chamberlain is a question mark- everyonre seems to assume he will just bounce right back after reconstructive arm surgery. I don’t. Everyone also assumes that his future is in the bullpen. Perhaps, but not necessarily. The Yankee rotation looks loaded now, but it might not look that way in 18 months. Soriano would have to be a lot more consistent in 2012 than he was in 2011 for me to take him seriously as a Yankee closer.
Whether the Fielder signing works out long term for the Tigers remains to be seen, but it’s good for baseball when a top tier free agent goes somewhere other than New York, Boston, Philadelphia or LA. My money would be on Fielder remaining a very good bat for the life of the contract, but probably spending the second half of it at DH.
Maybe the Posada for Tino deal also looked less good when someone on the Yankees realized that the Mariner players would be free agents and could just be signed for cash, causing them not to restructure the trade to placate Seattle.
by designatedquitter on Jan 27, 2012 10:12 AM EST reply actions
I don't think it will be Soriano
He’s already way overpaid. What are they going to do, give him a pay cut and then make him the closer?
Romine!
The Yankees have interest in Raul Ibanez, Kevin Kernan of the New York Post reports. Ibanez has drawn interest from a number of clubs, including the Mets and Tigers, in recent weeks. We heard ten days ago that ACES had contacted the Yankees about Ibanez, but this is the first concrete indication that the interest is mutual.
Hooray.
why?
WHY?
"I could never wear another uniform. I will always be a Yankee"- Jorge Posada
Thanks for the memories Jorge
One of my favorite all-time baseball quotes.
It was a spanish-speaking pitcher upon retiring and standing on the mound. That was the only thing he said because he couldn’t speak english. About twenty years ago. Who was it? Luis Tiant?
How much would it take?
I’d try and center it around Hughes but again, I really don’t know much about Dominic Brown or his value. I’ve never seen the kid play. But if the Phillies truly do hate him, then maybe they could get him at a good price and he could replace Swisher after 2012.
"I could never wear another uniform. I will always be a Yankee"- Jorge Posada
Thanks for the memories Jorge
why wouldn't they just trade him at this point?
If he isn’t as good as people thought why not cash in on that. Pierre is just lowering Brown’s value even further because now Brown is basically out of the mix and is a lock for AAA
It’s going to take a lot. The Phillies are an aging team and they know that. Brown is a big part of their future and they feel he needs more time in AAA.
by Scooby Snacks on Jan 27, 2012 11:53 AM EST up reply actions
First time I saw the Flying Squirrels (Richmond AA club for Giants) he collided with two other guys and had to be helped off the field.
There’s my pointless little nugget.
by MichaelGGBGrabow on Jan 27, 2012 12:42 PM EST up reply actions
The New York media hasn’t had a good ol’ fashioned closer controversy to write about in more than 15 years so I’m sure they’ll be chomping at the bit after the first blown save of the 2013 season
No. Mo’s pitching forever.
"I could never wear another uniform. I will always be a Yankee"- Jorge Posada
Thanks for the memories Jorge
They're in the wrong city
Go to Boston if you want to report “can’t handle the ninth inning”. There’s been plenty of those moments (LOL Papelbon).
"I could never wear another uniform. I will always be a Yankee"- Jorge Posada
Thanks for the memories Jorge
lol
so true
Most arguments are really about context.
by SheaWasBettor21 on Jan 27, 2012 12:22 PM EST up reply actions
The Yankees seem determined to trade good prospects to Seattle
Thank goodness that one didn’t happen.
"I could never wear another uniform. I will always be a Yankee"- Jorge Posada
Thanks for the memories Jorge
That was a pretty good article by William you linked
Knowing many Tigers fans, I think they would feel this contract is completely worth it if Fielder could put them over the top in the short term and help them to win just their second WS title in my lifetime. Yes, they overpaid, and yes, perhaps even over-reacted to the loss of Victor Martinez. But when your owner is a multi-billionaire, who’s shown over the past three seasons that he is willing to go out of pocket for a contender, maybe that’s OK. Now, if they don’t get past the ALCS before Fielder or Cabrera start to break down, I’m sure Detroit fans will feel quite a bit differently, watching how this may hamstring their budget towards the end of the contract.
Too bad the K.C. Athletics aren't around anymore.
The Yankees used to dump all their unwanted players on K.C. (sometimes 5 or 6 at a time) and get servicable players in return. I think the Yankees thought Seattle was KC for a while, until a few deals backfired. Thank goodness cooler heads prevailed with Cano and Posada.
When I saw the word "borken"
All I could think of was the Swedish Chef from The Muppets. I giggled. Thanks for that.
I know where I come from, and when you always have in mind where you come from the rest will be easy. I think the rest will be easy.
-- M. Rivera
That picture of Jorge
is definitely going into my FACEPALM gallery
If you come to a fork in the road, take it!
- Yogi Berra
by In The Big Inning on Jan 27, 2012 9:43 PM EST reply actions
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