Is Pitching Actually More Important Than Hitting?
On Monday night, Duggan posted an excellent article looking at the Montero-Pineda trade from the perspective of the Yankees offensive in 2013 or 2014, and came to the conclusion that while Pineda obviously helps the team, trading Montero potentially hurts the offense more a few years down the road, so this trade basically equates to robbing Peter to pay Paul, with the plan of robbing Paul later to pay back Peter, while really trying to avoid paying either one.
I do agree with him, at least partially: cliches (i.e. pitching wins championships) are useless, and any wise GM should be focused on the strength and depth of the entire roster, not just zeroing in the rotation or the batting lineup. However, after giving it some thought, I've come to a slightly different conclusion. I'm convinced that starting pitching does matter just a little more than hitting does, not only in the abstract but especially for this Yankees roster as the next few years unfold, and therefore losing Montero probably doesn't hurt as much as we might think it does.
For starters, there is what I'll call the opportunity principle. Over 162 games, a team has a certain number of plate appearances and innings that someone will need to fill - 6,306 PAs and 1,458.1 innings for the Yankees in 2011, to be exact. A starter who can pitch 200 innings will cover about 14% of the team's total, while a hitter who comes to the plate 700 times only covers 11%. Thus, starting pitchers carry a heavier burden, and replacing a mediocre starter with a good one should have a greater impact than replacing a mediocre hitter with a good one, because 14% is greater than 11%. Obviously, this is all very abstract and theoretical, but keep following me.
You're aware of the Pythagorean theorem in baseball, which indicates an extremely strong correlation between a team's run differential and it's won/loss record, but what you may not realize is that equal run differentials aren't actually equal. Let me explain. The 2011 Yankees scored 867 runs while allowing 657, a +210 differential which calculates to an expected won/loss record of about 103-59. I ran regression scenarios based on these figures, one where runs scored stay constant and runs allowed increase, the other where runs allowed stay constant and runs scored decrease, but both were balanced so that the run differentials were always equal. Take a look:

Notice that even with equal run differentials, the team that manages to allow fewer runs always has a better expected record than the team that scores more. In fact, within the highlighted area, this difference is as much as 1.5 wins.
Why? Well, generally speaking, it's harder for a team to score six runs in a game than it is to score five, harder to score five than four, and so on. Winning a game only requires a team to outscore its opponent by a single run, and that run is easier to come by when the pitching staff lowers the demand on the offense. This explains why a team like the 2011 Phillies won so many games with only an average offense; their pitchers allowed 3.26 runs per game, meaning that four runs was usually enough to win. This is not especially difficult for a lineup of decent major league hitters.
What is my point? The Yankees have an aging offensive core that's locked in well past the middle of this decade. How far Alex Rodriguez, Derek Jeter, and Mark Teixeira fall remains to be seen, but the days of routinely scoring 850+ runs are probably over no matter what Brian Cashman did this offseason. Even if Jesus Montero were to reach his potential quickly (and assuming he actually was able to get at-bats somewhere, but I digress...), there's no way that one hitter can make up for three who are declining. If they wind up aging gracefully, Montero may have been able to soften the blow, but if some or all of them declined rapidly, it would be like trying to keep the Titanic afloat.
This means that within a season or two, the Yankees will probably be more like a +150 or +125 run differential team, thanks to this unavoidable regression of offense, but we know it's better to achieve this differential while giving up 650 runs, not 700 or more. Since they have more flexibility with the pitching staff anyway, (i.e fewer long term contracts), and since starting pitchers bring a little more bang for the buck (14% instead of 11%), it's imperative that they refocus their long-term efforts towards strengthening the rotation, and the acquisition of Michael Pineda fits that model perfectly.
Remember the 2011 Phillies, because the Yankees offense will probably resemble theirs soon enough. Without a fantastic pitching staff to keep the offense in the game, they may find itself staying home in October much more often than they've grown accustomed to.
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Good article, Kuri
I’m not sabrmetrically-inclined (or at least not with those Pythagorean run differential things), so it took me a read or 2 to figure out exactly what you were doing with the chart. You broke it down well enough for me to follow it.
So long story short, pitching really is more important than hitting?
Every team has an "aging core" unless they have some kind of
time machine. Tex is only 32 years old. Lumping him in with ARod & Jeter does not work. He should be in his prime and hopefully he’ll fix his swing this ST and get back to his usual BA. ARod had many injuries so while certainly declining, if healthy will still have a better year than last year.
Both Tex and A-Rod have declined the past couple of years
That is a fact. Doesn’t matter if Tex is younger, the numbers show a decline. While we can all hope he will fix his swing, and that Alex will stay healthy, we can’t just assume it. They will continue to age, and barring any temporary spikes, long term they will decline. Sad, but true.
Problem with signing players who do not age is that they
can only play night games. J/S
Yeah Tex declined
But was that because he is getting older and his skills are declining or because he aims for the short porch in left with every swing he takes against right handed pitchers?
Not a Pena fan?
I'll do whatever it takes to win games, whether it's sitting on a bench waving a towel, handing a cup of water to a teammate, or hitting the game-winning shot.- Kobe Bryant
A.J. Burnett's only fan!
At that price....
….I wouldn’t want him, if I were Cashman, anyways.
There’s better deals to be had, out there.
good article
and along with Duggan’s, provides a balanced view of both the trade and the impact (pitching vs. hitting, etc.).
There were a few teams that gave up fewer runs than the Yanks in 2011.
I totally agree that we need pitching to keep the team well-rounded, but I still don’t think pitching is more important than hitting. I’d say they’re about equal.
Let’s also not forget that the majority of outs are made by the players on the field, not the pitcher. For instance, a groundball pitcher relies very heavily on his infielders which are considered offensive players. That 14% vs 11% a little unfair.
by jimitre on Jan 20, 2012 12:25 PM EST via mobile reply actions
The only team that gave up few runs than the Padres...
was the Phillies. Yet the Padres finished 71-90 because they couldn’t score runs.
by jimitre on Jan 20, 2012 12:31 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
that's a good point actually
I wonder how much defense factors in. This is why a fielder is more valuable than a DH
Over 90% of plays...
…would be made by just about anyone that a major league team is willing to put there. I’d say something like 95% of players would make most of the same plays give or take, which would even out as the sample grows.
Good defense is vastly overrated.
Most arguments are really about context.
by SheaWasBettor21 on Jan 20, 2012 12:44 PM EST up reply actions
No, I have to disagree. A weak link at a position is one thing, but an overall good defense cannot be overrated.
Romine!
I agree and it is very rare
but how many times have we watch a ball go up the middle and Jeter is no where to be seen, while Elvis Andrus could actually make that play. Though, for the most part one defender won’t kill your team (though first base could and some might say catcher as well)
“how many times have we watch a ball go up the middle and Jeter is no where to be seen”
I see it a lot, often in the playoffs.
Most arguments are really about context.
by SheaWasBettor21 on Jan 20, 2012 1:21 PM EST up reply actions
Prince Fielder?!
I see what you’re getting at! Sign him! 10 years 380 million!
by MichaelGGBGrabow on Jan 20, 2012 3:55 PM EST up reply actions
Yes.
With this said, hitting is a much safer investment. The beauty of the game is that it offsets the greater value of top pitching by making it more difficult to attain.
Most arguments are really about context.
by SheaWasBettor21 on Jan 20, 2012 12:30 PM EST reply actions
Except Bonds.
I’d say Bonds was more valuable than pitching.
Most arguments are really about context.
by SheaWasBettor21 on Jan 20, 2012 12:42 PM EST up reply actions
If there was a Bonds of pitching,
he would be more valuable than the actual Bonds.
"Does any of you know what diversity is?"
"I believe that it is an old, old wooden ship, used during the civil war era."
by yankees97 on Jan 21, 2012 10:25 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Good point.
Most arguments are really about context.
by SheaWasBettor21 on Jan 21, 2012 11:48 AM EST up reply actions
Very interesting
I’m pretty much mathematically illiterate, so i have trouble with some of the more mathematical approaches to baseball (i’ve picked up Stats, but not really their formulas)
I do disagree with the idea that because Jeter, A-rod and Tex are going to fall apart, we might as well not bother and just accept it. Montero could have helped soften the blow, like you said.
While it could be seen as more important, that doesn’t necessarily mean losing hitting for pitching is the way to go. The difference might make sense in picking a FA pitcher over a hitter, but subtracting one for the other spreads the distance between the pitching and hitting farther than it might be worth.
Sorry to go offtopic. but why are Yankees tickets on stubhub so cheap? I’m looking at possible games, and the seats that are usually 60+ are 20ish each
Follow me on twitter @nyybrandonc
Co-Manager/Writer for Pinstripe Alley, Editor/Writer for Blueshirt Banter
don't they tax the shit out of those tickets?
I think they add a service fee on top of the seller’s fee and make it ridiculous.
Still, it’s about 40 less than usual
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Co-Manager/Writer for Pinstripe Alley, Editor/Writer for Blueshirt Banter
As a stats freak, love the article
nice job kuri, been meaning to look more into that stuff myself, but then again, thats the benefit of you guys!
I wonder which tends to be streakier, hitting or pitching? You see periods where team’s hitters will slump throughout the season, wonder how that compares to the pitching staff?
I've said it before....
…and I’ll say it again.
You can mine the FA market for bats, and get pretty good value.
Mining the FA market for effective pitching seems much harder, and certainly pricier.
Figure that to get a FA pitcher of Pineada’s (projected) production, you’d have to invest at least 10+ million per year.
You can get an awful lot of offense for that. Maybe not top tier guys (and, lets face it, if Montero morphs into his generations Pujols…..the Yanks “lose” that trade, anyway), but solid bats that can help you score runs.
People also forget…this team is set to reclaim some payroll. They’ve reclaimed Jorge’s contract $$ this off season. They’ve only got 2 more year’s of AJ on the payroll. Not having to pay a top flight FA pitcher this off season, but getting a potential top flight producer means they have more money to go out and get that bat…either at the deadline or next off season.
I’m not sure why this Pineda/Montero trade has started discussions of the impact of a teams offense as a whole vs. the impact of teams pitching as a whole and what’s more important, a teams ability to score a run or your teams ability not to allow a run. They’re the same thing.
The relevant argument(since obviously this post was written because of the recent trade) is a singular pitcher vs. a singular hitter. I think the regular season impact(while I think still favors the pitcher) is much closer than the post season impact, which I think distinctly favors the pitcher. As I commented under a different post, when you’re pitching every 3 or 4 games your value is obviously greater than if you’re pitching once every 5 days, meanwhile the hitters use is obviously a constant from regular season to post season.
pitching vs hitting
We know piching is critical in the post season.But look at A-Rod’s,Tex’s,and Swisher’s performance in last yrs. post season.Were stuck with a core of aging talent at a tremendous cost. I have suggested that trading Tex for a front line starter and than signing fielder was a viable and solid option. Yanks would fill two needs starting pitching and a younger LH bat and IB.I still think we gave up our catcher of the future for ? talent.Another thought Burnett and Swish for Butler from KC.,and sign Oswalt to a one yr. deal.
We cannot trade Tex. No trade clause. Not happening.
Jesus Montero fangirl
by WhatwouldJeterdo on Jan 20, 2012 1:37 PM EST up reply actions
Non-aging talent....
…would be so sick.
Most arguments are really about context.
by SheaWasBettor21 on Jan 20, 2012 1:42 PM EST up reply actions
Hold on a second. Tex is 31 years old. Yes, last year, including the playoffs, was disappointing but that will happen with every player. When the Yanks signed him few were not thrilled, it was damn exciting and the team was on its way to a world series. You’re not trading Tex for a top pitcher today. He makes a ton of money and now is not the time to trade him. He’s one of our younger big time hitters and he can certainly bounce back from a bad season.
Regarding Alex we, as fans, got screwed by Levine and Goldman. We just have to deal with that. But, this team still has some solid young talent in Grandy, Cano, Gardner with guys like Nunez filling in a key role. And the pitching staff now is young and extremely talented. That’s huge. Hate to see Jesus go but I love this team’s pitching now and in the future. Locked down.
Also, Oswalt scares the hell out of me in the AL east and why would KC ever want Burnett. That makes no sense.
It's that the world is basically a forced labor camp from which the workers, perfectly innocent, are led forth by lottery, a few each day, to be executed.
I don't think that's just the way I see it. I think that's the way it is. Are there alternative views? Yes. Will any of them stand close scrutiny? No.
by memitim on Jan 20, 2012 2:30 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Agree with CalinCT
Good article on the stats as I have followed Bill James for decades. Even before Yahoo Fantasy leagues.
Calin is right — top line pitchers costs are through the roof & if the Yanks get solid offensive players with good defensive skills, the offensive drop won’t have as much impact due to the greater weight of preventing runs vs. scoring runs . I think that finding the right balance is going to be key the next few years. The SP is much better now & for the future. Specially with the 2014 agreement coming into play.
Gah!
First we had a copy of nyyrocks229, now this?
I know where I come from, and when you always have in mind where you come from the rest will be easy. I think the rest will be easy.
-- M. Rivera
Watch out
Briceratoops will be commenting soon.
I know where I come from, and when you always have in mind where you come from the rest will be easy. I think the rest will be easy.
-- M. Rivera
Or a Brichaosaurus
"WHO WOULD LEAD?! THE CLOWN?!"
by I'mGivingYouARaise on Jan 20, 2012 2:43 PM EST up reply actions
Seriously though
Soon our doppelganger’s will take over PSA, shifting the discourse in the opposite direction and phasing out each and every one of us day by day. We must stop it before it is too late.
The machines are becoming self-aware!
by Jedi Master A-Rod on Jan 20, 2012 3:13 PM EST up reply actions
Damn SkyNet
"WHO WOULD LEAD?! THE CLOWN?!"
by I'mGivingYouARaise on Jan 20, 2012 4:00 PM EST up reply actions
Or Brandon will be the only one not to have a duplicate and will have to choose between PSA and bizarro PSA like Elaine.
by MichaelGGBGrabow on Jan 20, 2012 4:06 PM EST up reply actions
VARGAS!
"WHO WOULD LEAD?! THE CLOWN?!"
by I'mGivingYouARaise on Jan 20, 2012 4:08 PM EST up reply actions
The Hello Vargas
was the name of my Fantasy Football team last year
"WHO WOULD LEAD?! THE CLOWN?!"
by I'mGivingYouARaise on Jan 20, 2012 6:32 PM EST up reply actions
My fantasy baseball team last year was Friends O’ Clyde!
by MichaelGGBGrabow on Jan 20, 2012 7:47 PM EST up reply actions
I have to start thinking of some names for this year
The Van Buren Boys is one possible name I’m considering
"WHO WOULD LEAD?! THE CLOWN?!"
by I'mGivingYouARaise on Jan 20, 2012 7:51 PM EST up reply actions
Genuis
My girlfriend hadn’t seen them all, so we started from the pilot…JUST watched that episode.
Peterman is his socks flipping through the channels…too much.
by MichaelGGBGrabow on Jan 20, 2012 11:22 PM EST up reply actions
Haha, awesome
"WHO WOULD LEAD?! THE CLOWN?!"
by I'mGivingYouARaise on Jan 21, 2012 1:02 AM EST up reply actions
I really hope Curb comes back for a ninth season
I’m assuming you’re a fan?
by MichaelGGBGrabow on Jan 20, 2012 11:24 PM EST up reply actions
Of course
"WHO WOULD LEAD?! THE CLOWN?!"
by I'mGivingYouARaise on Jan 21, 2012 1:01 AM EST up reply actions
This is weird. Very weird.
Jesus Montero fangirl
by WhatwouldJeterdo on Jan 20, 2012 3:27 PM EST up reply actions
whatever happened to the EM CEES?
Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows
A good and thoughtful article, Kuri
this kind of thought provoking discussion is why this blog is so good.
"I don't want one of those guys who'll drive in two but let in three every game." Casey Stengel
by tnredneckyankeesfan on Jan 20, 2012 3:01 PM EST reply actions
Off topic only a little bit
ARod expect to play a lot of third base and DH when necessary.
"I don't want one of those guys who'll drive in two but let in three every game." Casey Stengel
by tnredneckyankeesfan on Jan 20, 2012 3:10 PM EST reply actions
Link
"I don't want one of those guys who'll drive in two but let in three every game." Casey Stengel
by tnredneckyankeesfan on Jan 20, 2012 3:10 PM EST reply actions
Yep
Good negotiations it seems like
"WHO WOULD LEAD?! THE CLOWN?!"
by I'mGivingYouARaise on Jan 20, 2012 4:01 PM EST up reply actions
Red Sox are trading Scutaro to the Rockies.
Jesus Montero fangirl
by WhatwouldJeterdo on Jan 20, 2012 5:46 PM EST reply actions
The Rockies also traded Kevin Slowey
I’m not really interested in that, but that does increase the chance that Jamie Moyer makes the club which I would like to see
by MichaelGGBGrabow on Jan 20, 2012 5:50 PM EST up reply actions
Welp, maybe not anymore. That was a short lived rumor.
Jesus Montero fangirl
by WhatwouldJeterdo on Jan 20, 2012 5:54 PM EST up reply actions
what would the Sox get for him?
Rockies have a shit ton of pitchers, but none of them seem a match for Scutaro straight up.
Why do they need Scutaro when they have Tulo? It made no sense from the beginning.
Jesus Montero fangirl
by WhatwouldJeterdo on Jan 20, 2012 6:13 PM EST up reply actions
Put him in RF to replace Seth Smith. lol
by Jedi Master A-Rod on Jan 20, 2012 6:27 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, that was my first question as well
"WHO WOULD LEAD?! THE CLOWN?!"
by I'mGivingYouARaise on Jan 20, 2012 6:33 PM EST up reply actions
Hadn't seen this
•Steve Melewski of MASNSports.com reports that former Oriole Brady Anderson was named special assistant to Orioles GM Dan Duquette today.
by MichaelGGBGrabow on Jan 20, 2012 5:46 PM EST reply actions
Mattingly! What did I tell you about those sideburns?
by Jedi Master A-Rod on Jan 20, 2012 6:14 PM EST up reply actions
Look old man, I don't know what you think sideburns are....
"WHO WOULD LEAD?! THE CLOWN?!"
by I'mGivingYouARaise on Jan 20, 2012 6:33 PM EST up reply actions
Great piece
Love the way u question a classic baseball theory then prove it right
Great stat work
But low runs allowed is not just about pitching. Defense plays a huge part in run prevention. That’s one reason the Rays are competitive despite low budget
by Professor Twain on Jan 20, 2012 10:26 PM EST reply actions

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