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Around SBN: Win or Lose, Boston Celtics' New Big 3 Era A Success

Q&A With Jeff Sullivan Of Lookout Landing

After the news of the Jesus Montero/Hector Noesi for Michael Pineda/Jose Campos trade broke, I immediately reached out to Jeff Sullivan, head honcho of Lookout Landing, the fantastic Seattle Mariners SB Nation site.

Let's get straight to it!

BC: Why should Yankees fans be happy about this trade?

JS: I probably don't even need to give you an answer. By now I'm sure you've figured it out. I understand the emotional blow that comes from watching your team trade a guy like Jesus Montero. I really do. In no small part because the Mariners just traded Michael Pineda. Pineda is just such an absolute treat to watch when he's on. His fastball is a legitimate swing-and-miss pitch, which is rare, and when combined with his slider and his height he just doesn't let righties do anything. Lefties, meanwhile, haven't exactly lit him up. In Pineda, the Yankees have a young #2 with #1 talent, and they have him under team control for five years. So Sabathia's getting older. So Nova doesn't miss bats. So the others are the others. Pineda is a stabilizer now and down the road.

BC: How do Mariners fans feel about this trade?

JS: I can't speak for all of them. I can only speak for one of them! But if I had to guess, I'd say Mariners fans were probably all horrified at first, since Pineda was a top young talent and Montero was a relative unknown. As those fans have come to understand more about the deal, though, they're probably coming around - maybe not to the point where they like it, but to the point where they're okay with it, and they get it. Pineda's hard to lose. The Mariners have more pitching coming. The Mariners did not have bats coming. Mariners fans have been desperately pleading for a big bat, and Montero could be a big bat for a while. Basically, the average Mariners fan now probably has a different opinion than he did shortly after news first broke.

Follow me for more after the jump!

Star-divide

BC: Tell us more about Jose Campos?

JS: Campos is a long ways away. Obviously. He's 19 and spent last year in short-season ball. But for a guy at that level, he put up extraordinary results, and he was electrifying - he wasn't coasting by on a breaking ball. His fastball gets into the mid-90s, and he throws a curve and a change that are inconsistent but solid for a teenager. Campos isn't a phenom. He doesn't seem like a phenom, anyway. But he was one of the better prospects with the Mariners, and now he's one of the better prospects with the Yankees. While he'll rise slowly, if he stays healthy, he won't rise that slowly. Monitor him, and then prepare to fall in love if he finds success at double-A.

BC: How do you see this deal being looked at in 5 years? 10 years?

JS: Probably on the Internet. (Jokes!) I pretty much can't answer this question. It depends on so many things. Does Montero catch? Does he catch, but catch horribly? Does Pineda stay healthy? Does Pineda's changeup ever develop? Does Noesi start? Relieve? How has Campos progressed? I think the most likely individual outcome, just playing the odds, is that Pineda stays good, Montero becomes a pretty good DH, Noesi soaks up innings in an unspectacular fashion and Campos never amounts to much. But I'd bet on the field over that. I don't think this trade will be seen as lopsided, but I can see ways that that could happen.

BC: Is Michael Pineda a legitimate #2 starter in the AL East?

JS: Yes. Not that he necessarily needs to be, with Hiroki Kuroda around. Who are the other #2 starters? Josh Beckett? Brandon Morrow? David Price? Nick Markakis probably? Pineda's 2011 numbers match up. By ERA, by FIP, by xFIP, by whatever, Michael Pineda's performance was a performance worthy of a slot at the front of a rotation, and there's little reason to think his performance was a fluke.

Thanks again to Jeff for the answers!

Comment 78 comments  |  3 recs  | 

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…it’s a joke.

Jesus Montero fangirl

by WhatwouldJeterdo on Jan 16, 2012 3:28 PM EST up reply actions  

Does this make you happier about the trade!

Follow me on twitter @nyybrandonc

Co-Manager/Writer for Pinstripe Alley, Editor/Writer for Blueshirt Banter

by Brandon C. on Jan 16, 2012 3:31 PM EST up reply actions  

I’m getting better, but I don’t know about necessarily happier. I always look forward to a good Jeff Sullivan post, though.

Jesus Montero fangirl

by WhatwouldJeterdo on Jan 16, 2012 3:37 PM EST up reply actions  

Fantastic!

Follow me on twitter @nyybrandonc

Co-Manager/Writer for Pinstripe Alley, Editor/Writer for Blueshirt Banter

by Brandon C. on Jan 16, 2012 3:38 PM EST up reply actions  

LOL.

I find it funny someone didn’t get that.

by DCyanks21 on Jan 16, 2012 4:07 PM EST up reply actions  

Especially after all the Swisher jokes here.

Usqueadbaugham! Anam muck an dhoul ! Did ye drink me doornail?

by Q-TDSK on Jan 16, 2012 4:42 PM EST up reply actions  

i was laughing when he said that lol

JPP for 2011 DPOY!

by NewYork! on Jan 16, 2012 6:41 PM EST up reply actions  

I liked the humor. O’s got no pitching.

by cermolaNY2 on Jan 17, 2012 1:20 AM EST up reply actions  

Really respect Jeff. He does outstanding work, and it’s great to read when I pop in there on occasion.

Definite thanks to him for helping us out and answering some questions.

Contributing writer for Pinstripe Alley.
Follow me on Twitter @frankiecamp48

by Frank Campagnola on Jan 16, 2012 3:31 PM EST reply actions  

So, to summarize:

Both teams’ fanbases felt about the same way about the trade: we’re losing our (potentially) best young player for a relative unknown?

Both teams’ fanbases have had a chance to take a step back and evaluate, and both teams’ fanbases have realized that they came away pretty well off. We get the electric young pitcher we want/need; they get the hard-hitting young slugger they want/need.

The more time I take to think about the trade, the more I’m at peace with it. Though if Montero’s first at-bat against Pineda is a game-winning Grand Slam to the short porch in YS, I reserve the right to whine about it!

by pastor2b on Jan 16, 2012 3:35 PM EST reply actions  

If you're reading this Jeff

I love Safeco Field. However, your baseball announcers need serious work!

"WHO WOULD LEAD?! THE CLOWN?!"

by I'mGivingYouARaise on Jan 16, 2012 3:48 PM EST reply actions  

Pineda stays good, Montero becomes a pretty good DH, Noesi soaks up innings in an unspectacular fashion and Campos never amounts to much

That sounds encouraging…

by jetanumba2 on Jan 16, 2012 3:50 PM EST reply actions  

Write a fanpost!

Follow me on twitter @nyybrandonc

Co-Manager/Writer for Pinstripe Alley, Editor/Writer for Blueshirt Banter

by Brandon C. on Jan 16, 2012 4:01 PM EST up reply actions  

Reasons

Is it because you think Montero is puljos or because you think Pineda is not that good? I’m asking because i think most will acknowledge that the Yanx need pitching and not hitting (although I think the hitting prowess is a bit overblown)…

by JerseyGuy77 on Jan 16, 2012 4:20 PM EST up reply actions  

I liked Montero a lot

and hitting might not be a problem now, it will be very shortly and we now have no up and coming hitters above Single A

by jetanumba2 on Jan 16, 2012 4:28 PM EST up reply actions  

Hitting is always cheaper than premium pitching. Also, I wouldn’t be surprised to see Sanchez in Trenton at some point this season. By the time the team will need more hitting it will be available either internally, FA signings, or trades. Much, much harder to get 23 year old number 2 starters, nearly impossible and at the cost the Yanks did get it, it was a steal in today’s environment. I hate to see Jesus go too. But, I think long term we will all look back and see this as a trade that both sides did well in.

It's that the world is basically a forced labor camp from which the workers, perfectly innocent, are led forth by lottery, a few each day, to be executed.
I don't think that's just the way I see it. I think that's the way it is. Are there alternative views? Yes. Will any of them stand close scrutiny? No.

by memitim on Jan 16, 2012 4:52 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

Hitting is always cheaper than premium pitching.

False.

by Briceratops on Jan 16, 2012 4:55 PM EST up reply actions  

True.

It's that the world is basically a forced labor camp from which the workers, perfectly innocent, are led forth by lottery, a few each day, to be executed.
I don't think that's just the way I see it. I think that's the way it is. Are there alternative views? Yes. Will any of them stand close scrutiny? No.

by memitim on Jan 16, 2012 4:55 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

historically, pitchers have signed for less money over less years than hitters.

by jetanumba2 on Jan 16, 2012 4:57 PM EST up reply actions  

You mean hitters and fielders. Not too many FH’s getting bank busting deals.

It's that the world is basically a forced labor camp from which the workers, perfectly innocent, are led forth by lottery, a few each day, to be executed.
I don't think that's just the way I see it. I think that's the way it is. Are there alternative views? Yes. Will any of them stand close scrutiny? No.

by memitim on Jan 16, 2012 4:58 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

Montero is not a DH though

he is not an old Vlad, he’s much more valuable than that.

by jetanumba2 on Jan 16, 2012 5:21 PM EST up reply actions  

We don’t know what Montero is except a special bat. Everything else is guesswork at this point.

It's that the world is basically a forced labor camp from which the workers, perfectly innocent, are led forth by lottery, a few each day, to be executed.
I don't think that's just the way I see it. I think that's the way it is. Are there alternative views? Yes. Will any of them stand close scrutiny? No.

by memitim on Jan 16, 2012 5:33 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

of course, but it’s not like he’s clearly just a DH. Even if he eventually becomes a C/DH/1b there’s still value in that. For all we know he could have been fine behind the plate and then could have taken Tex’s place when he leaves.

by jetanumba2 on Jan 16, 2012 5:54 PM EST up reply actions  

I know. I’m saying right now that is all we know. I think it has become pretty clear that the organization didn’t think he would stick at catcher, and you are talking about an org with a lot of former catchers. Also, it is probably the Yanks deepest position as far as position players go. When you look at all of that uncertainty and you are getting a 23 year old #2 it is really hard to say no to that kind of deal. It’s going to hurt, but it wouldn’t be worth it if it didn’t for the other club. And they still think they got the bad end of this deal.

It's that the world is basically a forced labor camp from which the workers, perfectly innocent, are led forth by lottery, a few each day, to be executed.
I don't think that's just the way I see it. I think that's the way it is. Are there alternative views? Yes. Will any of them stand close scrutiny? No.

by memitim on Jan 16, 2012 5:59 PM EST up reply actions  

Sanchez, who just had a worse defensive year than Montero EVER had, is going to move up 2 levels this season?

Jesus Montero fangirl

by WhatwouldJeterdo on Jan 16, 2012 4:57 PM EST up reply actions  

Montero and Romine combined!!

by jetanumba2 on Jan 16, 2012 4:57 PM EST up reply actions  

Leave Romine out of this

(In loud, spooky, booming voice) “He is the future…”

Romine!

by david d on Jan 16, 2012 5:02 PM EST up reply actions  

I said he could. I didn’t say he would. But, as quickly as Montero’s came up Sanchez can as well.

It's that the world is basically a forced labor camp from which the workers, perfectly innocent, are led forth by lottery, a few each day, to be executed.
I don't think that's just the way I see it. I think that's the way it is. Are there alternative views? Yes. Will any of them stand close scrutiny? No.

by memitim on Jan 16, 2012 5:01 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

Because I think Montero would have been more valuable to the Yankees down the road than Pineda.

by Briceratops on Jan 16, 2012 4:32 PM EST up reply actions  

especially ESPECIALLY

with names like Kuroda and Oswalt out there that could probably do just as good a job. I mean how worth it is Pineda over league average (how much better can he be?) at the cost of Montero?

by jetanumba2 on Jan 16, 2012 4:54 PM EST up reply actions  

I don't know

But you can be sure that he will be able to improve on his 103 ERA+ in Yankee Stadium no problem.

by Briceratops on Jan 16, 2012 4:57 PM EST up reply actions  

I can’t see why not. Rookies frequently improve, and his peripherals are better than his ERA.

by Chuck Burly on Jan 16, 2012 5:02 PM EST up reply actions  

Kuroda and Oswalt won’t be here pas this year. And going by last year Pineda was worth 3.4 WAR more than league average.

by lololol on Jan 16, 2012 5:14 PM EST up reply actions  

i'm not talking necessarily about his WAR

I mean is whatever he puts up over, say Kuroda or Oswalt, worth losing Montero over? I’m not entirely sure. Basically, is the difference of 1 WAR worth losing Montero over? If he was a free agent, no question, but we had to give up Jesus and his possible WAR for a marginal increase

by jetanumba2 on Jan 16, 2012 5:25 PM EST up reply actions  

Your still looking at this too narrowly. Oswalt and Kuroda would be 1 year guys, Pineda is here long term and cost effective. If the Yanks are really going to balance the budget it’s unlikely they’ll be able to pick up Hamels or w/e on the FA markets. And with the B’s not exactly lighting up AAA, and even less of a guarantee both will work out, there will be rotation holes. This both provides long term help,short term help and budget balancing.

by lololol on Jan 16, 2012 5:33 PM EST up reply actions  

Exactly. You have CC and Pineda locking up the top two slots in the rotation for years to come. Having that solid is invaluable in today’s environment. The Oswalt’s and Kuroda’s will always be available as back end rotation. Top of the rotation guys, as we all should know by now, are extremely difficult to secure. Young, inexpensive ones are almost impossible to acquire.

It's that the world is basically a forced labor camp from which the workers, perfectly innocent, are led forth by lottery, a few each day, to be executed.
I don't think that's just the way I see it. I think that's the way it is. Are there alternative views? Yes. Will any of them stand close scrutiny? No.

by memitim on Jan 16, 2012 5:48 PM EST up reply actions  

oh no, I know that

I’m just thinking of whether or not we overvalue ‘top of the rotation pitching’ over solid middle of the rotation to be worth giving up value for.

by jetanumba2 on Jan 16, 2012 5:52 PM EST up reply actions  

I think in value over a season, it’s a wash. Pitching on some days will single handily win games, and on some days offense will. You need both to be competitive, and a large part of this trade will be more on how each guy develops over time, which is hard to say now.

by lololol on Jan 16, 2012 6:27 PM EST up reply actions  

yeah that is a good point

by jetanumba2 on Jan 16, 2012 7:50 PM EST up reply actions  

I’m less completely depressed about it, but liking it is still a long way off.

Jesus Montero fangirl

by WhatwouldJeterdo on Jan 16, 2012 4:09 PM EST up reply actions  

Realistically

Liking or disliking this trade, other than emotionally, is pretty much irrelevant at this point in time since we don’t know how it’ll work out until we see results on both ends of the spectrum.

"WHO WOULD LEAD?! THE CLOWN?!"

by I'mGivingYouARaise on Jan 16, 2012 5:29 PM EST reply actions  

Not necessarily

Obviously predicting the future has no value, but there can be valid critiques and praises based on things like organization depth, current value of the trade pieces and overall front office strategy (cheapness).

Plus it’s oh so fun!

by Chuck Burly on Jan 16, 2012 5:39 PM EST up reply actions  

I don't think the front office saw Montero as a legit major league catcher.

They couldn’t stick him at first because of Tex, and they’re going to rotate older players at DH, so he couldn’t play there. They needed pitching, and they got a good young arm. Both sides got what they needed.

by powerlifter610 on Jan 16, 2012 5:38 PM EST reply actions  

Yes, please!

“@JonHeymanCBS: there has been some contact between matsui and #yankees. decent fit, considering team budget, his background”

It's that the world is basically a forced labor camp from which the workers, perfectly innocent, are led forth by lottery, a few each day, to be executed.
I don't think that's just the way I see it. I think that's the way it is. Are there alternative views? Yes. Will any of them stand close scrutiny? No.

by memitim on Jan 16, 2012 5:39 PM EST via mobile reply actions  

Ew.

Jesus Montero fangirl

by WhatwouldJeterdo on Jan 16, 2012 5:40 PM EST up reply actions  

I love Matsui, among my 5 favorite players of all time, but he doesn’t fit

Follow me on twitter @nyybrandonc

Co-Manager/Writer for Pinstripe Alley, Editor/Writer for Blueshirt Banter

by Brandon C. on Jan 16, 2012 5:46 PM EST up reply actions  

We’ll see. At $2mm, somewhere around there, he does fit in the current Yankees budget and need for a lefty bat. I know Matsui has always hit righties very well, that just creates more challenges for the opposing manager in late innings. I just don’t see them spending $8-10mm on Pena.

It's that the world is basically a forced labor camp from which the workers, perfectly innocent, are led forth by lottery, a few each day, to be executed.
I don't think that's just the way I see it. I think that's the way it is. Are there alternative views? Yes. Will any of them stand close scrutiny? No.

by memitim on Jan 16, 2012 5:51 PM EST up reply actions  

Matsui has always hit righties very well, that is true

The question is, does he hit righties very well. And judging by last year, the answer is no and it’s getting worse. And he can’t play a position.

I’d rather have Posada back than Matsui.

I'll do whatever it takes to win games, whether it's sitting on a bench waving a towel, handing a cup of water to a teammate, or hitting the game-winning shot.- Kobe Bryant

A.J. Burnett's only fan!

by nyyrocks29 on Jan 16, 2012 6:09 PM EST up reply actions  

I’d rather have Posada back than Matsui.

That’s stretching it

Follow me on twitter @nyybrandonc

Co-Manager/Writer for Pinstripe Alley, Editor/Writer for Blueshirt Banter

by Brandon C. on Jan 16, 2012 6:17 PM EST up reply actions  

Posada wasn't that bad vs. righties last year

And at least he has a position (sort of).

I'll do whatever it takes to win games, whether it's sitting on a bench waving a towel, handing a cup of water to a teammate, or hitting the game-winning shot.- Kobe Bryant

A.J. Burnett's only fan!

by nyyrocks29 on Jan 16, 2012 10:30 PM EST up reply actions  

Look at Matsui’s home and away splits last season. Was last year a year of decline or was it a product of hitting in Oakland with an anemic lineup? Maybe a combination of both. I don’t know, but I don’t mind a $2mm flier to find out.

It's that the world is basically a forced labor camp from which the workers, perfectly innocent, are led forth by lottery, a few each day, to be executed.
I don't think that's just the way I see it. I think that's the way it is. Are there alternative views? Yes. Will any of them stand close scrutiny? No.

by memitim on Jan 16, 2012 6:17 PM EST up reply actions  

Sometimes, nostalgia can work

This aint one of those times.

Should you choose to test my resolve in this matter, you will be facing a finality beyond your comprehension, and you will not be counting days, or months, or years, but milleniums in a place with no doors.

by YankeesJets on Jan 16, 2012 7:11 PM EST up reply actions  

He is the same age as Derek. He had a very good year in Anaheim. This isn’t a case of nostalgia. The Yanks need a lefty bat and they are on a budget that we are hearing leaves them with $1-2mm to spend on that bat if they don’t go the internal route. After most of the the arbitration cases wrap up tomorrow I think we will see where they land and I would have zero problem seeing Matsui back in pinstripes, confident that he can be effective in his role. The same can be said of Damon, but he is a Boras client and probably won’t take that kind of money. We’ll see.

It's that the world is basically a forced labor camp from which the workers, perfectly innocent, are led forth by lottery, a few each day, to be executed.
I don't think that's just the way I see it. I think that's the way it is. Are there alternative views? Yes. Will any of them stand close scrutiny? No.

by memitim on Jan 16, 2012 7:24 PM EST up reply actions  

Damon and Matsui have no choice

Nobody is beating their doors down. They will have to take whatever money they can get. Matsui just seems like more of a broken down player to me. I was a big fan of both and thought one of them shouldve returned in 10, rather than bringing in that bum, NJ. But its no longer 2010, its 2012.

I could see bringing in Damon, as he seems motivated to get to 3000. I also dont think they want to tie up a roster spot with a guy that will strictly DH. Damon can still play some 1B and god forbid, some OF.

Perhaps they should look into Betemit, he fits more what they are looking for. He can play infield and hit righties.

Should you choose to test my resolve in this matter, you will be facing a finality beyond your comprehension, and you will not be counting days, or months, or years, but milleniums in a place with no doors.

by YankeesJets on Jan 16, 2012 7:34 PM EST up reply actions  

Lets contact all the old players!

Where’s Bernie? Can he come out of retirement?

by lololol on Jan 16, 2012 5:51 PM EST up reply actions  

Flash Gordon?

He’s ready to reclaim his eighth inning role!

I'll do whatever it takes to win games, whether it's sitting on a bench waving a towel, handing a cup of water to a teammate, or hitting the game-winning shot.- Kobe Bryant

A.J. Burnett's only fan!

by nyyrocks29 on Jan 16, 2012 6:07 PM EST up reply actions  

and the Merciless Ming!

by jetanumba2 on Jan 16, 2012 6:20 PM EST up reply actions  

Let’s not joke about Mr. Womack…

"Don't you think it's strange that you'll make more money than President Hoover this year?"
"Why not? I had a better year than he did." - G.H. Ruth

366 Up, 366 Down

by Andrew GM on Jan 16, 2012 9:19 PM EST up reply actions  

Tino

He hit a home run last year. Clearly he still has game.

I'll do whatever it takes to win games, whether it's sitting on a bench waving a towel, handing a cup of water to a teammate, or hitting the game-winning shot.- Kobe Bryant

A.J. Burnett's only fan!

by nyyrocks29 on Jan 16, 2012 6:08 PM EST up reply actions  

Ugh

If you’re going to bring back a former player, have it be Damon. At least he’s still capable of playing the outfield without injuring himself.

I'll do whatever it takes to win games, whether it's sitting on a bench waving a towel, handing a cup of water to a teammate, or hitting the game-winning shot.- Kobe Bryant

A.J. Burnett's only fan!

by nyyrocks29 on Jan 16, 2012 6:06 PM EST up reply actions  

racist

Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows

by Rorschach44 on Jan 17, 2012 6:56 PM EST up reply actions  

I wonder how he would do against major league hitting and the Yanks already have a right handed DH bat in Jones. They could go that route and see how it plays out in ST but a 30 year old guy who K’d over 160 times in AAA gives me pause.

It's that the world is basically a forced labor camp from which the workers, perfectly innocent, are led forth by lottery, a few each day, to be executed.
I don't think that's just the way I see it. I think that's the way it is. Are there alternative views? Yes. Will any of them stand close scrutiny? No.

by memitim on Jan 16, 2012 7:31 PM EST up reply actions  

Id be curious to see how he does. I’m honestly not sure. Something tells me he’s a AAAA player.

by cermolaNY2 on Jan 17, 2012 1:29 AM EST up reply actions  

cuz no one likes Chato

Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows

by Rorschach44 on Jan 17, 2012 6:56 PM EST up reply actions  

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