Poll: Now With 100% More Graphs
by WhatwouldJeterdo on Jan 19, 2012 11:59 AM EST
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PrintI just do not think enough has been written on PSA about the Montero/Noesi - Pineda/Campos trade! For everyone who loves the trade, there seems to be another who hates it. To get a better idea of where PSA as a whole stands, I thought I would create a poll. In a couple days I'll tally the answers, make some sweet graphs, and we'll see the true breakdown of our feelings on the matter.
I know that emotions run extremely high on the matter, but try to answer with as much objectivity as you can. If you loved Montero, don't pretend the Yankees are doomed without him. If you didn't think Montero had a future on the team, don't underrate him just because he's not ours now. Don't underrate Pineda because he's new, don't overrate him just because we have him now.
With that said, to the questions!
1. Do you think the trade was fair for both teams? Yes/No/Undecided
2. Do you think either team "won" this trade? Yankees/Mariners/Even
3. Which team regrets this trade more in 5 years? Yankees/Mariners/Both/Neither
4. Who has the better career? Montero OR Pineda - Noesi OR Campos (Need 2 answers here)
5. Are you happy with the trade? Yes/No/Undecided
6. Does Pineda end up as the Yankees ace? Yes/No/Undecided
7. Does Montero end up as the Mariners catcher? Yes/No/Undecided
8. Who improved their team the most as a result of this trade? Yankees/Mariners/Equal/Undecided
Graphs!
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I just do not think enough has been written on PSA about the Montero/Noesi – Pineda/Campos trade!
I’m guessing this is sarcasm?
Follow me on twitter @nyybrandonc
Co-Manager/Writer for Pinstripe Alley, Editor/Writer for Blueshirt Banter
Well done, sir.
"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring." --Rogers Hornsby
by Chris McKeown on Jan 19, 2012 8:56 PM EST up reply actions
1. Do you think the trade was fair for both teams? Yes
2. Do you think either team “won” this trade? Even
3. Which team regrets this trade more in 5 years? Neither
4. Who has the better career? Montero/Campos
5. Are you happy with the trade? Yes
6. Does Pineda end up as the Yankees ace? Yes
7. Does Montero end up as the Mariners catcher? Yes
8. Who improved their team the most as a result of this trade? Both improve, Yankees more
Follow me on twitter @nyybrandonc
Co-Manager/Writer for Pinstripe Alley, Editor/Writer for Blueshirt Banter
1. Do you think the trade was fair for both teams? Yes
2. Do you think either team “won” this trade? Even
3. Which team regrets this trade more in 5 years? Neither
4. Who has the better career? Even if thy both reach their peak – Campos
5. Are you happy with the trade? Yes
6. Does Pineda end up as the Yankees ace? Yes
7. Does Montero end up as the Mariners catcher? Undecided
8. Who improved their team the most as a result of this trade? Yankees
For #4, who between Pineda and Montero? I’m not sure I was clear enough with the 2 answer thing there.
Jesus Montero fangirl
by WhatwouldJeterdo on Jan 15, 2012 3:01 PM EST up reply actions
I think if they reach their reach abilities their value will be close. But if i had to chose i’d give a slight edge to montero although it really depends on what position he ends up as.
Oh, I misread what you said haha. I read it like “Even if they both reach their peak, Campos”. Sorry!
Jesus Montero fangirl
by WhatwouldJeterdo on Jan 15, 2012 3:15 PM EST up reply actions
no problems! To be more specific:
If Montero ends up as DH/1b then Pineda will have an edge
If Montero sticks at C, then Montero will have an edge.
Gotcha, thanks.
Jesus Montero fangirl
by WhatwouldJeterdo on Jan 15, 2012 3:20 PM EST up reply actions
Thats how I feel as well
Follow @NJNetsFan_4life
by The Chair of Knowledge on Jan 16, 2012 10:45 AM EST up reply actions
Sounds good.
1. Yes
2. Even
3. Hmm … neither.
Three is tough because Montero and Pineda could be amazing, but so could Campos therefore we could win this trade by having two amazing guys and them one. I’ll say neither though.
4. How does one judge a hitter vs. a pitcher? I’ll say Pineda and Campos.
Montero would of had a better career in Yankee Stadium rather than Safeco. That’s my reasoning.
5. Yes
6. I think he’ll always be behind CC, but it will be like we have two aces so yes.
7. No. He’ll be the DH unless they sign Fielder.
8. Yankees
For #4, it’s obviously an extreme example, but Babe Ruth had a better career than Boone Logan. So yeah, nothing technical really.
Jesus Montero fangirl
by WhatwouldJeterdo on Jan 15, 2012 3:02 PM EST up reply actions
Answers
1. Do you think the trade was fair for both teams? Yes/No/Undecided- Yes
2. Do you think either team “won” this trade? Yankees/Mariners/Even- Yankees
3. Which team regrets this trade more in 5 years? Yankees/Mariners/Both/Neither- Neither
4. Who has the better career? Montero/Pineda – Noesi/Campos- Montero, Campos
5. Are you happy with the trade? Yes/No/Undecided- Yes. I hate losing Montero, but getting over the emotional part of it I love what they got back and I love the positives.
6. Does Pineda end up as the Yankees ace? Yes/No/Undecided- Yup
7. Does Montero end up as the Mariners catcher? Yes/No/Undecided- I think he’ll DH, but I hope he catches.
8. Who improved their team the most as a result of this trade?Yankees/Mariners/Undecided- Yankees definitely
I'll do whatever it takes to win games, whether it's sitting on a bench waving a towel, handing a cup of water to a teammate, or hitting the game-winning shot.- Kobe Bryant
A.J. Burnett's only fan!
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1. Do you think the trade was fair for both teams? Yes/No/Undecided
2. Do you think either team “won” this trade? Yankees/Mariners/Even
3. Which team regrets this trade more in 5 years? Yankees/Mariners/Both/Neither
4. Who has the better career? Montero/Pineda – Noesi/Campos
5. Are you happy with the trade? Yes/No/Undecided
6. Does Pineda end up as the Yankees ace? Yes/No/Undecided
7. Does Montero end up as the Mariners catcher? Yes/No/Undecided
8. Who improved their team the most as a result of this trade? Yankees/Mariners/Undecided
1. Yes
2. Yankees
3. Neither
4. Pineda, Montero, Noesi, and then Campos
5. If I was a Yankees fan, I would be elated
6. Not as long as CC is pitching on the team
7. No
8. Yankees
You have been issued a warning.
Personal attacks have no place ~Alzheimer reference~ --sternfan1
In order to continue participating on DRaysBay you must acknowledge your warning by pressing the OK button below.
1. Do you think the trade was fair for both teams? Yes
2. Do you think either team “won” this trade? Yankees – Meets their short/long- term needs in SP to win a WS
3. Which team regrets this trade more in 5 years? Neither
4. Who has the better career? Montero/Pineda
5. Are you happy with the trade? Yes
6. Does Pineda end up as the Yankees ace? No – It’s CC
7. Does Montero end up as the Mariners catcher? Yes – And probably terrible at C
8. Who improved their team the most as a result of this trade? Both
1. Do you think the trade was fair for both teams? Yes
2. Do you think either team “won” this trade? Even
3. Which team regrets this trade more in 5 years? Neither
4. Who has the better career? Pineda, Campos
5. Are you happy with the trade? Undecided
6. Does Pineda end up as the Yankees ace? No, CC
7. Does Montero end up as the Mariners catcher? DH, though a good one
8. Who improved their team the most as a result of this trade? Yankees
boom
1. Do you think the trade was fair for both teams? Yes
2. Do you think either team "won" this trade? Even
3. Which team regrets this trade more in 5 years? Neither
4. Who has the better career? Pineda/Noesi
5. Are you happy with the trade? Undecided
6. Does Pineda end up as the Yankees ace? No
7. Does Montero end up as the Mariners catcher? Yes
8. Who improved their team the most as a result of this trade? Undecided
Romine!
Poll Answers
1. Do you think the trade was fair for both teams? Yes/No/Undecided
2. Do you think either team “won” this trade? Yankees/Mariners/Even
3. Which team regrets this trade more in 5 years? Yankees/Mariners/Both/Neither
4. Who has the better career? Montero/Pineda – Noesi/Campos
5. Are you happy with the trade? Yes/No/Undecided
6. Does Pineda end up as the Yankees ace? Yes/No/Undecided
7. Does Montero end up as the Mariners catcher? Yes/No/Undecided
8. Who improved their team the most as a result of this trade? Yankees/Mariners/Undecided
"Don't you think it's strange that you'll make more money than President Hoover this year?"
"Why not? I had a better year than he did." - G.H. Ruth
1. Do you think the trade was fair for both teams? Yes
2. Do you think either team “won” this trade? Even
3. Which team regrets this trade more in 5 years? Neither
4. Who has the better career? Montero – Campos
5. Are you happy with the trade? No
6. Does Pineda end up as the Yankees ace? No
7. Does Montero end up as the Mariners catcher? Yes
8. Who improved their team the most as a result of this trade? Yankees
1. Do you think the trade was fair for both teams? Yes
2. Do you think either team “won” this trade? Even
3. Which team regrets this trade more in 5 years? Neither
4. Who has the better career? Pineda/Campos
5. Are you happy with the trade? Yes
6. Does Pineda end up as the Yankees ace? No, only because of CC though
7. Does Montero end up as the Mariners catcher? No
8. Who improved their team the most as a result of this trade? Yankees
IGYAR TIME
1. Do you think the trade was fair for both teams? Yes
2. Do you think either team “won” this trade? Even
3. Which team regrets this trade more in 5 years? Neither
4. Who has the better career? Montero & Noesi. On the Mariners, both have less stress and more chance to shine. Pineda will be under a microscope due to us losing our prized star hitting prospect and as for Cantos… hahaha, well lets just say I don’t exactly trust anyone coming out of our farm system to be treated like they should
5. Are you happy with the trade? Yes. I personally wouldn’t have done it and I’ve stated my own personal reasons why I don’t like it. HOWEVER the Yankees could’ve made a far Far FAAAAAAAAR worse trade involving Montero.
6. Does Pineda end up as the Yankees ace? Undecided. I hope so, but it’s too early for me to tell.
7. Does Montero end up as the Mariners catcher? Yes. I think he’ll be fine.
8. Who improved their team the most as a result of this trade? Mariners. Like I’ve stated before, the Yankees will always be fine in terms of making it to the postseason. Whether Pineda is good or bad, the Yankees will always be fine because they are the New York Yankees. The Mariners really needed hitting which Jesus could help with & they still have a decent pitching staff which Noesi could very well help improve, as well as pitching prospects in the works. Even if the Mariners don’t win this year, with this trade and their desire to keep Felix, they are possibly building a very good contender in a year or three, so I think they come out on top.
"WHO WOULD LEAD?! THE CLOWN?!"
by I'mGivingYouARaise on Jan 15, 2012 3:28 PM EST reply actions
x
Should you choose to test my resolve in this matter, you will be facing a finality beyond your comprehension, and you will not be counting days, or months, or years, but milleniums in a place with no doors.
1. Do you think the trade was fair for both teams? Yes
2. Do you think either team “won” this trade? Yankees
3. Which team regrets this trade more in 5 years? I don’t think either will “regret” it.
4. Who has the better career? Montero OR Pineda – Noesi OR Campos? Montero and Pineda will both be outstanding – Campos over Noesi.
5. Are you happy with the trade? Yes
6. Does Pineda end up as the Yankees ace? Yes
7. Does Montero end up as the Mariners catcher? Yes
8. Who improved their team the most as a result of this trade? Yankees
by Let's Talk About Tex Baby on Jan 15, 2012 4:25 PM EST reply actions
1. Do you think the trade was fair for both teams? YES
2. Do you think either team “won” this trade? YANKEES
3. Which team regrets this trade more in 5 years? NEITHER
4. Who has the better career? MONTERO/CAMPOS
5. Are you happy with the trade? YES
6. Does Pineda end up as the Yankees ace? YES
7. Does Montero end up as the Mariners catcher? NO
8. Who improved their team the most as a result of this trade? Id say Both if it was an option, its not, so I’ll say Yankees
Should you choose to test my resolve in this matter, you will be facing a finality beyond your comprehension, and you will not be counting days, or months, or years, but milleniums in a place with no doors.
I can add an additional answer of equal to question 8, since I suppose that is a possibility.
Jesus Montero fangirl
by WhatwouldJeterdo on Jan 15, 2012 6:01 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah i’d say both for 8
Follow me on twitter @nyybrandonc
Co-Manager/Writer for Pinstripe Alley, Editor/Writer for Blueshirt Banter
Well, there is a difference in saying which team improved and which team improved MOST. I asked which improved most, but it’s possible they improved an equal amount, which I didn’t take into consideration when I wrote it up the first time. So you are saying that you think they both improved an equal amount?
Jesus Montero fangirl
by WhatwouldJeterdo on Jan 15, 2012 6:15 PM EST up reply actions
I think it was pretty much a win-win
Yanks had a need for pitching, while Ms had a need for offense. Ms have plenty of pitching on the way, which made Pineda expendable. Nice job on the poll, it had the perfect amount of questions.
Should you choose to test my resolve in this matter, you will be facing a finality beyond your comprehension, and you will not be counting days, or months, or years, but milleniums in a place with no doors.
Of course by win-win, I meant it improved both teams where they had their biggest weakness.
Should you choose to test my resolve in this matter, you will be facing a finality beyond your comprehension, and you will not be counting days, or months, or years, but milleniums in a place with no doors.
So you want your answer to be Equal?
And thanks! The idea came to me in my sleep haha.
Jesus Montero fangirl
by WhatwouldJeterdo on Jan 15, 2012 7:08 PM EST up reply actions
Equal
Now thats what I call a fan! Yanks are on the mind even while sleeping.
Should you choose to test my resolve in this matter, you will be facing a finality beyond your comprehension, and you will not be counting days, or months, or years, but milleniums in a place with no doors.
Yeah, that’s why I ended up answering the way I did. Yankees improve a bit more I think
Follow me on twitter @nyybrandonc
Co-Manager/Writer for Pinstripe Alley, Editor/Writer for Blueshirt Banter
So your answer is not Equal, your answer is Yankees? Got it.
Jesus Montero fangirl
by WhatwouldJeterdo on Jan 15, 2012 7:15 PM EST up reply actions
If you answered both, or some variation of that, for question 8, could you clarify for me whether you are saying they improved equally or not? It would help sort out the answers better. Sorry about that.
Jesus Montero fangirl
by WhatwouldJeterdo on Jan 15, 2012 6:19 PM EST reply actions
1. Yes
2. Yankees
3. Neither
4. Pineda-Campos
5. Yes
6. Yes
7. No
8. Yankees because they got a their future ace in Pineda and because Campos could also bolster the rotation in the future.
"I want to be a catcher. I love to catch. I like to be a catcher. I like to be in the middle of the game. I mean, it's my position. I want to play my position."-Jesus Montero
I hate the trade!
1. Do you think the trade was fair for both teams? No
2. Do you think either team “won” this trade? Mariners
3. Which team regrets this trade more in 5 years? Yankees
4. Who has the better career? Montero, Noesi
5. Are you happy with the trade? No
6. Does Pineda end up as the Yankees ace? No
7. Does Montero end up as the Mariners catcher? No
8. Who improved their team the most as a result of this trade? Mariners
Well, that doesn’t seem to be very objective, but we’ll go with it.
Jesus Montero fangirl
by WhatwouldJeterdo on Jan 15, 2012 11:11 PM EST up reply actions
1. Do you think the trade was fair for both teams? Yes/No/Undecided: YES
2. Do you think either team “won” this trade? Yankees/Mariners/Even: EVEN
3. Which team regrets this trade more in 5 years? Yankees/Mariners/Both/Neither: YANKEES
4. Who has the better career? Montero OR Pineda – Noesi OR Campos (Need 2 answers here) MONTERO and CAMPOS
5. Are you happy with the trade? Yes/No/Undecided YES
6. Does Pineda end up as the Yankees ace? Yes/No/Undecided NO but only because they are the Yankees and will always be making moves, but i think pineda will be very good
7. Does Montero end up as the Mariners catcher? Yes/No/Undecided: YES
8. Who improved their team the most as a result of this trade? Yankees/Mariners/Equal/Undecided: MARINERS
THe yankees made this trade because they didn’t think montero could catch and 1b and dh are filled for the next 5 years, which would limit montero’s potential. The yankees will regret this trade IF montero sticks at catcher because there are very few catchers who hit as well as montero can/will. Worst case scenario is that montero becomes a HoF catcher and pineda struggles to live up to the hype and match montero’s production and campos flames out. Best case scenario is that montero doesn’t stick at catcher, pineda becomes the ace after learning from cc and campos becomes the next hot prospect. Seattle will benefit more in the short term while the yankees have the better future. trading pitching for hitting is never a sure thing and i think of the hamilton/volquez trade. I think seattle may be seen as a winner of this trade 15 years down the road because montero could be a HoF hitter regardless of his position, but i believe pineda will help the yankees lock up multiple championships
also mariners
improved more because they got an all-star caliber hitter and a number 4 starter while the yankees have a number 2/3 pitcher who may need a year to adjust
Too early to call Montero an All-Star caliber hitter.
As players like Shelley Duncan have shown, it’s one thing to smack around AAA pitchers, it’s quite another to do it to MLB pitchers. Yes, his September was impressive, and I do think there’s a good chance he’ll hit well immediately, but let’s hold off on calling him All-Star caliber so quickly.
Also won’t Noesi need a year to adjust as well?
"Don't you think it's strange that you'll make more money than President Hoover this year?"
"Why not? I had a better year than he did." - G.H. Ruth
1. Do you think the trade was fair for both teams? Yes. Both will be perennial all stars.
2. Do you think either team “won” this trade? Even.
3. Which team regrets this trade more in 5 years? Neither team will regret it. Similar to our trade with Arizona and Detroit that brought us Granderson.
4. Who has the better career? Montero OR Pineda – Noesi OR Campos. Too close to call for Montero/Pineda. Noesi will have success for a short while but I don’t think he’ll last too long. Campos will have a better career.
5. Are you happy with the trade? Yes
6. Does Pineda end up as the Yankees ace? Maybe eventually, but not in the near future.
7. Does Montero end up as the Mariners catcher? He’ll be similar to Victor Martinez in that regard.
8. Who improved their team the most as a result of this trade? Mariners, cuz they added two MLB ready players.
Yes, that is Mike Marra.
by TheRealSlimShady on Jan 16, 2012 1:49 AM EST reply actions
1. Yes
2. Yankees
3. Niether
4. Pineda (because Montero looks like he has to DH reguraly/Campos
5. Yes
6. Yes
7. No
8. Yankees
Follow @NJNetsFan_4life
by The Chair of Knowledge on Jan 16, 2012 10:42 AM EST reply actions
1. Do you think the trade was fair for both teams? Yes/No/Undecided
2. Do you think either team “won” this trade? Yankees/Mariners/Even
3. Which team regrets this trade more in 5 years? Yankees/Mariners/Both/Neither
4. Who has the better career? Montero OR Pineda – Noesi OR Campos (Need 2 answers here) I’m just guessing between Montero and Pineda; I think they will both have excellent careers
5. Are you happy with the trade? Yes/No/Undecided
6. Does Pineda end up as the Yankees ace? Yes/No/Undecided (Depends on many factors: CC, ManBan’s transition to the ML, etc.)
7. Does Montero end up as the Mariners catcher? Yes/No/Undecided
8. Who improved their team the most as a result of this trade? Yankees/Mariners/Equal/Undecided
1. Do you think the trade was fair for both teams? Yes/No/Undecided
2. Do you think either team “won” this trade? Yankees/Mariners/Even
3. Which team regrets this trade more in 5 years? Yankees/Mariners/Both/Neither
4. Who has the better career? Montero OR Pineda - Noesi OR Campos (Need 2 answers here)
It’s really hard to compare Montero to Pineda, but I think Pineda will be a top #2 pitcher, while Montero will be an All-Star level hitter. Noesi is already in the majors, while Campos is still far away, so there’s no reason to think Campos will come up 4 years from now and wreck ML hitting
5. Are you happy with the trade? Yes/No/Undecided
Wouldn’t have made it, but given that Montero didn’t really have a place, I think the yankees really got the most they could have.
6. Does Pineda end up as the Yankees ace? Yes/No/Undecided
Probably not with CC around.
7. Does Montero end up as the Mariners catcher? Yes/No/Undecided
I don’t know if they have any catching prospects coming up, but I’m assuming they don’t, and I’m also assuming the Mariners don’t care if he plays stellar defense or not.
8. Who improved their team the most as a result of this trade? Yankees/Mariners/Equal/Undecided
The trade was fair, but the Mariners needed hitting more than we needed pitching, especially with Kuroda coming in an hour later.
For #4, I thought it said 5 years from now for some reason. But I keep my answer, it’s just that I think Campos is too far from a sure thing, while Noesi is already here and doing solidly, if not spectacularly.
by bloppy_ploppy on Jan 16, 2012 3:32 PM EST up reply actions
poll
1. Do you think the trade was fair for both teams? Undecided
2. Do you think either team “won” this trade? Mariners
3. Which team regrets this trade more in 5 years? Yankees
4. Who has the better career? Montero & Noesi
5. Are you happy with the trade? No
6. Does Pineda end up as the Yankees ace? Undecided
7. Does Montero end up as the Mariners catcher? Undecided
8. Who improved their team the most as a result of this trade? Undecided
by long time listener on Jan 16, 2012 8:22 PM EST reply actions
I suck at guessing, but here goes
1. Do you think the trade was fair for both teams? Yes
2. Do you think either team “won” this trade? I’m going to say Mariners, and I’m sure bias plays a part here. Cashman and Co. probably think they won, because they were never going to get value out of Montero the way they were using him.
3. Which team regrets this trade more in 5 years? It seems likely it would be the Yankees, if only because it seems that more can go wrong with young pitchers than with young hitters. If both play to their capabilities, that is another story, but what are the odds of that happening?
4. Who has the better career? Pineda and Noesi
5. Are you happy with the trade? Honestly, no. I hope Pineda changes my mind. It’s hard to be happy when you are excited about a new player you’ve been following finally getting a chance to start, only to have him traded away before he gets that chance.
6. Does Pineda end up as the Yankees ace? Undecided – it’s just way too early to say.
7. Does Montero end up as the Mariners catcher? Yes
8. Who improved their team the most as a result of this trade? Yankees, if only because they would have under-utilized both Montero and Noesi.
Pretty graphs are pretty!
"WHO WOULD LEAD?! THE CLOWN?!"
by I'mGivingYouARaise on Jan 19, 2012 2:49 AM EST reply actions
Love the graphs
I agree with our collective gut- you have to favor Noesi over Campos because Noesi is MLB ready, and Campos (for all his potential) is still years (and improvements) away.
it now has graphs
and I STILL didn’t read it
Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows
1. Do you think the trade was fair for both teams? Yes
2. Do you think either team “won” this trade? Even
3. Which team regrets this trade more in 5 years? Neither
4. Who has the better career? Pineda, Noesi (because pitching is too hard to project at Campos’ age, Noesi is the safe bet).
5. Are you happy with the trade? Yes
6. Does Pineda end up as the Yankees ace? No (we will sign or trade for a pitcher even better than Pineda in in the next 5 years)
7. Does Montero end up as the Mariners catcher? No
8. Who improved their team the most as a result of this trade? Yankees (position on the win curve)
by PortlandYankee on Jan 19, 2012 11:59 AM EST reply actions
WWJD's Huge Poll...
1. Do you think the trade was fair for both teams? Yes
2. Do you think either team “won” this trade? Yankees if anybody
3. Which team regrets this trade more in 5 years? Neither
4. Who has the better career? Montero – Campos
5. Are you happy with the trade? Yes
6. Does Pineda end up as the Yankees ace? No
7. Does Montero end up as the Mariners catcher? No
8. Who improved their team the most as a result of this trade? Equal
"People who know nothing about cheeses reel away from Camembert, Roquefort, and Stilton because the plebeian proboscis is not equipped to differentiate between the sordid and the sublime." Harvey Day (1971)
WWJD's Huge Poll
Could have a few different meaning! Especially on this site with all it’s jerkstore shoppers!
"WHO WOULD LEAD?! THE CLOWN?!"
by I'mGivingYouARaise on Jan 19, 2012 3:06 PM EST up reply actions
Huge Poll
Really? Well I never!
As this was my first post, I thought I would try to blend in with the community…
"People who know nothing about cheeses reel away from Camembert, Roquefort, and Stilton because the plebeian proboscis is not equipped to differentiate between the sordid and the sublime." Harvey Day (1971)
For that to be true, something would have had to go terribly, terribly wrong.
Jesus Montero fangirl
by WhatwouldJeterdo on Jan 20, 2012 1:11 PM EST up reply actions
Like I said, multiple meanings
Could be a stripper pole, could be some guys you’ve got locked in the closet of your dorm. Just use your imagination!
"WHO WOULD LEAD?! THE CLOWN?!"
by I'mGivingYouARaise on Jan 20, 2012 3:16 PM EST up reply actions
1. Do you think the trade was fair for both teams? Yes/No/Undecided
Undecided
2. Do you think either team “won” this trade? Yankees/Mariners/Even
Mariners
3. Which team regrets this trade more in 5 years? Yankees/Mariners/Both/Neither
Yankees
4. Who has the better career? Montero OR Pineda – Noesi OR Campos (Need 2 answers here)
Montero and Campos
5. Are you happy with the trade? Yes/No/Undecided
No
6. Does Pineda end up as the Yankees ace? Yes/No/Undecided
No
7. Does Montero end up as the Mariners catcher? Yes/No/Undecided
No
8. Who improved their team the most as a result of this trade? Yankees/Mariners/Equal/Undecided
Mariners
Wow
A lot of faith in Montero being a catcher in the PSA community.
Mariners will regret this deal more
because they won’t have Montero for as long as I think the Yankees will have Pineda. Montero will be a very good hitter and will get paid like one and in order for them to convince Montero to stay in that pitchers ballpark, they’ll have to out bid the other suitors and I don’t see that happening. Pineda, however, would have been much easier to keep in pitchers friendly Safeco Field. So I think even if Pineda is only a #2 and Montero is an All-Star hitter, they’ll always feel Pineda could have been their franchise guy while Montero will be gone in 5 years or so.
That 2nd to last graph tells me that either the Yankees development and scouting department is trash
Or PSA is deluded.
I’m thinking its the latter.
Yup, it’s totally delusional to 1) reason that the only way this trade makes sense for the M’s is for him to catch and 2) realize their current catching situation is complete garbage.
by Jedi Master A-Rod on Jan 20, 2012 12:31 PM EST up reply actions
Those are some very interesting conclusions
Using words that are nowhere to be found in that comment.
I’m basically wondering why everybody here thinks they know better than professionals within the organization, never said anything about the M’s needing him to catch, just that people who think he can catch when an entire team that had him in their farm system didn’t see that ability enough to their liking is kind of silly.
And also, the idea that the catching situation is complete garbage without Montero is equally laughable. Russell Martin, despite reports from PSA of sucking, is actually good and gives the Yankees what it needs from a catcher.
Russell Martin plays for the Mariners?
And you infer that the Yankees didn’t see any catching ability in Montero, whereas many of us think they did, but that they preferred to go with a defensively superior/offensively inferior catcher while using Montero to bolster their greatest perceived weakness.
Really, this is once again about you wanting to feel superior to all of PSA, so you put words in our mouth, then smugly nod your head. Carry on.
I wasn't thinking of the Mariners in the 2nd part
And I rarely think about the Mariners period. It was a disconnect on my part.
Really, what this actually is, is people obsessing over a player who will wind up being above average at best while playing for a team that isn’t going to go anywhere while the Yankees (the team that matters) will win another championship with the pieces they have. And that’s what I want, not superiority.
Really, what this actually is, is people obsessing over a player who will wind up being above average at best
These “professionals” you talked about compare Jesus Montero to Miguel Cabrera Manny Ramirez and Alex Rodriguez. Those aren’t above average players. Those are guys that are going to the hall of fame.
Nobody is saying Montero is certainly going to be at their level, but saying he’ll be “above average at best” and therefore implying that he has no chance of reaching that level, is not a smart thing to say.
I'll do whatever it takes to win games, whether it's sitting on a bench waving a towel, handing a cup of water to a teammate, or hitting the game-winning shot.- Kobe Bryant
A.J. Burnett's only fan!
also Cashman himself compared him to Piazza
So he’s going against what all the ‘experts’ say. He’s correct because he says so. This is about being smug.
And besides, what else is he gonna say?
He’s not Fred Wilpon, he wouldn’t throw a player under the bus.
Have you traveled back from the future to deliver this message?
by MichaelGGBGrabow on Jan 20, 2012 2:51 PM EST up reply actions
Well seeing as that last graph pertains to the Mariners and how Jesus fits in to their catching situation, you should probably think about them lest you look like a fucking moron.
by Jedi Master A-Rod on Jan 20, 2012 7:23 PM EST up reply actions 4 recs
We’re talking about the Mariners catching situation, which consists of Miguel Olivo and John Jaso.
That’s garbage.
by Jedi Master A-Rod on Jan 20, 2012 1:21 PM EST up reply actions
Then who does?
Because the Mariners catching situation currently consists of Montero, and two guys who are far worse than Russell Martin.
I'll do whatever it takes to win games, whether it's sitting on a bench waving a towel, handing a cup of water to a teammate, or hitting the game-winning shot.- Kobe Bryant
A.J. Burnett's only fan!
That should read "who is"
I'll do whatever it takes to win games, whether it's sitting on a bench waving a towel, handing a cup of water to a teammate, or hitting the game-winning shot.- Kobe Bryant
A.J. Burnett's only fan!
The funny part is
Both your post and my reply are equally useless, as is the entirety of the “narrative” BS that everyone and their mother loves to use as a negative.
X
They said it: “He’s a very advanced bat with power. He has improved greatly as a defender. He’s got above-average arm strength and threw out a higher percentage of basestealers at Double-A than he did in A-ball.” — Mark Newman, Yankees senior vice president of baseball operations
From: http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/minorleagues/prospects/y2009/profile.jsp?t=p_top&pid=524968
Not everyone thinks he can’t catch. I think that if he was on almost any other team not named the NY Yankees, he would have either gotten called up to the MLB once he showed improvement behind the plate, or called up at the beginning of 2011 and split time at DH and C (if on an American League team). I think this is what the PSA community is alluding to: he’s going to a team that may actually give him a chance to do both (DH/C) because they’re not in a “win now” mentality like the Yankees are. The other side of that coin is that his defensive skills have been compared to Posada (yes, even Posada 15 years ago) and if the Yankees could live with Posada’s defense, they could live with Montero’s.
For the record, I actually do think the Yankees development program (not scouting) is not very good
#1. Due to the Yankees “WIN NOW AT ANY COST” mentality, prospects don’t really have the chance to grow, to develop. It’s either succeed, be sent down, or be traded for “proven” MLB person. They may be good at developing talent in the lower ranks even up to AAA, but finishing their development is another story all together.
#2. If Montero was so very very bad at catching, to the unplayable point people seem to stick with him, then why was he allowed to continue to catch? Why not start having him learn 1B, if that’s were most people think he’ll wind up? Players get moved around all the time if a certain position isn’t working out, so the only logical reasons to keep him there is either A. They think his catching is serviceable enough as long as he hits like he’s projected too (like Piazza, Posada, etc) or B. Trade bait to the NL as well as AL since the NL doesn’t have the DH.
#3. The poll question had more to do with the Mariners than the Yankees. Since the Mariners have very little talent in terms of catching right now and seeing as how DH’s are probably easier to come by than position players, unless his catching defense is so bad that not even his hitting can make up for his defense costing the Yankees games, he’ll most likely be behind the plate for them.
So what that 2nd to last graph tells me is that most of us think the Yankees know what they’re doing in terms of their own catching prospects/desire for a pitcher/needs in general vs. the Mariners catching prospects/desire for a hitter/needs in general, but that some are still skeptical of Montero’s long term catching ability. I don’t know how you came to the conclusion that PSA is delusional except for the fact that most of us here were looking forward to seeing Montero playing for us and most of us thinking that his incredible projected hitting would more than make up for his lack of defense, as it did with Posada for his tenure with the Yankees. Or you were just feeling like being an insulting troll.
"WHO WOULD LEAD?! THE CLOWN?!"
by I'mGivingYouARaise on Jan 20, 2012 3:53 PM EST up reply actions
*defense costing the Mariners games
"WHO WOULD LEAD?! THE CLOWN?!"
by I'mGivingYouARaise on Jan 20, 2012 3:55 PM EST up reply actions
I don't see how the win now mentality impacts growth and development
Joba is the only concrete example of a guy that was screwed up in terms of his development, but even he was hitting his stride as a reliever before getting hurt.
Montero as a catcher was the most valuable place for him. He’s too slow to play RF and 1B isn’t exactly a big need for the Yankees, so why bother putting him there? That he wasn’t. What’s wrong with making him trade bait? Besides the fact that it hurts the feelings of the people on here that were in love with him? Its not like molding a player into viable asset for your team and having them be a viable option for a trade are mutually exclusive.
I just assumed everything about this was dealing with the Yankees because this is, you know, a Yankees blog. I don’t care about the Mariners problems at Catcher, and if they do decide to use him as their everyday catcher well bully for them. We’ll see how it turns out. I feel like everyone knows Montero is going to be great at everything no matter what when the Yankees obviously saw a fatal flaw that they did not feel comfortable moving forward with.
Really?
Joba is the only concrete example of a guy that was screwed up in terms of his development, but even he was hitting his stride as a reliever before getting hurt.
Joba was suppose to be a starter. How they used him and continued to use him was pretty horrific. Hughes is now in the same boat as well, and now due to our abundance of pitching there’s already talk of Nova being sent back down to start in AAA as well, which quite frankly is just mindboggling. Ian Kennedy faired no better here as well. I mean, I wasn’t even that high on him in the first place but he was not treated that well while here. Thankfully he’s found a place in Arizona. At the rate things are going, if Hughes doesn’t work out here, hopefully he finds a place on another team.
Montero as a catcher was the most valuable place for him. He’s too slow to play RF and 1B isn’t exactly a big need for the Yankees, so why bother putting him there? That he wasn’t. What’s wrong with making him trade bait? Besides the fact that it hurts the feelings of the people on here that were in love with him? Its not like molding a player into viable asset for your team and having them be a viable option for a trade are mutually exclusive.
Montero as a catcher was the most valuable place for him as a Yankee. But if you think his catching is so bad and that he won’t be the starting catcher for the Mariners or other teams due to what their own scouts have possibly said, then why not move him to 1st base? The Yankees could’ve used him as a backup 1st basemen/DH during the Tex contract (even learning how to play 1st well under Tex) and if he was groomed as a 1st basemen, being that his catching defensive skill are abysmal, he’d be much more valuable as trade bait as well cause lots of teams can use a 1B. It has nothing to do with the love of the man but rather the thought process behind his development.
I just assumed everything about this was dealing with the Yankees because this is, you know, a Yankees blog. I don’t care about the Mariners problems at Catcher, and if they do decide to use him as their everyday catcher well bully for them. We’ll see how it turns out. I feel like everyone knows Montero is going to be great at everything no matter what when the Yankees obviously saw a fatal flaw that they did not feel comfortable moving forward with.
So basically you made a moronic assumption and trollish insult without actually reading the question of the poll because this is, you know, a Yankees blog that apparently never EVER, you know, discusses how a trade that directly involved us might impact another team. Could’ve sworn I’ve seen Brandon and other PSA writers branch out to other SB Nation sites to get their take on trades, players, and so on. But hey, what the fuck do I know.
"WHO WOULD LEAD?! THE CLOWN?!"
by I'mGivingYouARaise on Jan 20, 2012 7:33 PM EST up reply actions
Your posts are like novels
Actually write one. It would be freaking hilarious. I’d love to read it.
I'll do whatever it takes to win games, whether it's sitting on a bench waving a towel, handing a cup of water to a teammate, or hitting the game-winning shot.- Kobe Bryant
A.J. Burnett's only fan!
I've actually considered it.
Haha, I’d just have to decide on a subject.
"WHO WOULD LEAD?! THE CLOWN?!"
by I'mGivingYouARaise on Jan 20, 2012 8:09 PM EST up reply actions
Haha
Now that’s definitely a novel I could write!
"WHO WOULD LEAD?! THE CLOWN?!"
by I'mGivingYouARaise on Jan 20, 2012 9:07 PM EST up reply actions
Ya gotta take into consideration
that the Yankees never get a top 5, 10, or even 25 pick. That kind of hurts the “development” theory. Lots of other teams look like they’re better at developing talent because they draft better talent in the first place. I’d bet the Yankees would be regarded as great developers of talent, too, if they were able to draft near the top year after year.
Romine!
That has nothing to do with my point though
They could draft a top 5, 10, or 25 pick and I still don’t think they’d be developed well due to the “WIN NOW AT ANY COST” mentality. Other teams have to let them grow in order to compete for the future, and if they don’t win then they’ll make due. The Yankees must win every year, so growth isn’t much of an option.
"WHO WOULD LEAD?! THE CLOWN?!"
by I'mGivingYouARaise on Jan 22, 2012 3:56 PM EST up reply actions
1. Do you think the trade was fair for both teams? Yes
2. Do you think either team “won” this trade? Even
3. Which team regrets this trade more in 5 years? Yankees
4. Who has the better career? Montero – Campos (Need 2 answers here)
5. Are you happy with the trade? Yes
6. Does Pineda end up as the Yankees ace? No
7. Does Montero end up as the Mariners catcher? Yes
8. Who improved their team the most as a result of this trade? Yankees
"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring." --Rogers Hornsby
survey says...
1. yes
2. even
3. neither
4. pineda; noesi
5. undecided
6. no
7. yes
8. yankees
by sing_or_die_1818 on Jan 19, 2012 9:29 PM EST reply actions
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