Better Set Up Man? '96 Rivera or '11 Robertson
by sweatyguido on Sep 29, 2011 2:01 PM EDT
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PrintWith the season over I'd like to congratulate David Robertson on the spectacular season he had. It was so important to have that bridge to Mo, and he accomplished above and beyond what his expectations were coming into the season. A few interesting stats: not only was Robertson tied in the AL for 1st in Holds with 34, he was also top 50 (number 46) in the AL in strikeouts, the only reliever in the top 50, and the only reliever with 100 k's. This got me thinking... who was the better set up man? '96 Rivera or this years Robertson?
'96 Rivera: 61 games, 8-3, 5 saves, 27 holds, 107.2 innings, 73 hits, 34 walks, 1 homerun, 130 strikeouts, 2.09 ERA, 0.99 WHIP, .189 BAA
'11 Robertson: 70 games, 4-0, 1 save, 34 holds, 66.2 innings, 40 hits, 35 walks, 1 homerun, 100 strikeouts, 1.08 ERA, 1.13 WHIP, .170 BAA
For you sabermetric fans out there, in 96 Rivera had a 57 RAR and 5.4 WAR (both his best career marks). Rivera also finished 3rd in the Cy Young voting, 12th in MVP. This years Robertson has a 31 RAR, 3.9 WAR.
So we vote now...
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Is it even a question?
Of course it’s Mo.
I know where I come from, and when you always have in mind where you come from the rest will be easy. I think the rest will be easy.
-- M. Rivera
question isnt whose had the better career
and im not ready to give it to mp. his big advantage was simply that he pitched more innings. but he only had 30 more strikeouts despite having almost twice the innings. robertson walked more, but simply didnt give up as many runs, and had a lower ERA.
עם ישראל חי
סבלנות
נח''ל
by nodisrespect on Sep 30, 2011 8:28 PM EDT up reply actions
Rivera pitched 40 more innings
So while Robertson may be on par for the innings he pitched, Rivera had a greater impact on many more games. It would be impossible for a setup man to duplicate Rivera’s 1996 in 2011 because they just don’t pitch as much anymore.
by Let's Talk About Tex Baby on Oct 1, 2011 12:39 AM EDT up reply actions
Why is it obviously Mo? I say Robertson.
Take the thought that Mo is the greatest relief pitcher of all time out of your head. That’s not what the question is asking.
This is Mo before he was our full-time closer. This is asking about his one-season performance versus David Robertson’s All-Star performance this season.
Robertson has an unbelievable K/9 ratio; Mo had a great one in ‘96 but Robertson’s blows Mo’s out of the water. And albeit in a third less of the innings, Robertson had a 1.01 ERA less than Mo.
It’s not a fair comparison because of the huge difference in IP. We don’t know if Robertson’s stats would’ve went down had he pitched a third of the more innings. But it’s not fair to say “is it even a question?” It is a question and a hard one at that, and I’m going with D-Rob.
Cyril P
liryc715@yahoo.com
As someone who actually watched the Yankees in 96, I would say Mo all the way
Most of the time Mo pitched the 7th and 8th, so right there it shows he was a better setup man as he was able to be relied on more. Mo gave up one less walk than DRob despite pitching 40 more innings. And if there is one thing you dont want a setup man doing, its walking people.
The biggest thing was when Mo came in, teams felt the game was over. The fans always felt the same way. WIth DRob, we sometimes deal with the Houdini act which doesnt always inspire confidance. Both did great jobs in their respective years but I go with Mo and its not even close.
Should you choose to test my resolve in this matter, you will be facing a finality beyond your comprehension, and you will not be counting days, or months, or years, but milleniums in a place with no doors.
It’s obviously Mo because the peripherls are just about equal and Mo threw 41 more innings.
Contributing writer for Pinstripe Alley.
I believe in the Church of Baseball.
- Annie Savoy
You go through The Sporting News for the last 100 years, and you will find two things are always true. You never have enough pitching, and nobody ever made money.
- Donald Fehr
by Frank Campagnola on Sep 29, 2011 10:39 PM EDT up reply actions
this isn't even a question
its MO.
Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows
Their FIPs are almost identical. I vote for Mo because he threw over 100 innings that year.
The Savior has come, and he is glorious. #63
And he was always “available” to pitch.
by Scooby Snacks on Sep 29, 2011 7:23 PM EDT up reply actions
Just look at the walk total
Mo walked 1 more batter than Robertson in 41 extra innings.
by Iggy Poptart on Sep 30, 2011 11:41 PM EDT up reply actions
No offense to DRob but I would go with Wood from a year ago as the better setup man
Should you choose to test my resolve in this matter, you will be facing a finality beyond your comprehension, and you will not be counting days, or months, or years, but milleniums in a place with no doors.
He may have had a 0.69(lol) ERA during his time here,
But that was aided by a 98.1(!) LOB%. That is ridiculously unsustainable.
True but if we are going by what I saw occur in the games, I take Wood over DRob
Should you choose to test my resolve in this matter, you will be facing a finality beyond your comprehension, and you will not be counting days, or months, or years, but milleniums in a place with no doors.
Robertson has stranded a lot of baserunners too this year
Now, I think DRob was better than Wood last year but Wood isn’t the only one that had to strand baserunners to be successful.
Lots of relievers need to do that, come to think of it. Thats why Mo is so rare.
Let us all congratulate the Boston Red Sox for becoming the first World Champions in the history of sports to NOT make the postseason! Thats not easy to do!
Ridiculous.
Contributing writer for Pinstripe Alley.
I believe in the Church of Baseball.
- Annie Savoy
You go through The Sporting News for the last 100 years, and you will find two things are always true. You never have enough pitching, and nobody ever made money.
- Donald Fehr
by Frank Campagnola on Sep 29, 2011 10:40 PM EDT up reply actions
testicles
Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows
by Rorschach44 on Sep 30, 2011 8:06 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Jo?
I know where I come from, and when you always have in mind where you come from the rest will be easy. I think the rest will be easy.
-- M. Rivera
So?
as in Soriano, DCyanks21?
Um…No.
"Unpleasant Internet Dude"
formerly known as "Rude Internet Guy"
Oh
Let us all congratulate the Boston Red Sox for becoming the first World Champions in the history of sports to NOT make the postseason! Thats not easy to do!
I think Rivera's greater innings were due to a couple of factors: Lack of anyone else who could be trusted, and Torre.
The case for Robertson doesn’t show in the numbers presented. At one point, he had 10 consecutive strikeouts with the bases loaded. He didn’t allow a run on the road until August. He was incomparable at coming into the middle of inning and cleaning up the mess inherited from others. The comparison doesn’t show % of inherited runners who scored- Robertson’s must be excellent.
The comparison is oranges to apples in a way that the stats presented don’t reflect.
by designatedquitter on Sep 30, 2011 10:33 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
tough choice
It is Mo because of the walks. D-Rob had an incredible strikeout ratio but had too many walks. He had more walks than Mo in 41 less innings so that means I have to go with Mo.
Do we really have to choose?
Take ‘em both! That’s the only REAL answer. :)
If I’m forced to pick one, I go with Mo. Robertson is pretty much a one inning guy. Mo in ‘96 routinely pitched 2-3 innings, and I’d bet he could pitch a fourth inning if he really, really had to, and still be effective. For me, that trumps what Robertson has done this season… but it’s a really dumb thing to have to choose, a little like asking if I want a hot fudge sundae or a chocolate chip cocoa brownie. I want ’em both!
I'm pretty thrilled to have watched both of these seasons unfold
I’m not surprised at all to see David Robertson become the Yankees go-to guy before Mariano. He is just a filthy pitcher and has such a smooth delivery.
What strikes me about Mariano’s 1996 season though is how frequently he pitched. Granted the game has changed in the 15 years and bullpens have become more complicated. But Mariano’s durability was incredible for a reliever. It’s not just tha he pitched 100+ innings in the regular season that year, but how effective he was night in and night out. The game really was over if teams were losing to the Yankees in the 7th inning. Rivera owned the 7th and 8th and Wetteland put the game in the books. And beyond the numbers, that Rivera garnered 3rd place in th Cy Young as a set-up reliever before many people really considered sabremetric stats that are becoming more common today! He was dazzling in ’96. Hentgen (20-10, 3.22era) and Pettitte (21-8, 8.87era) were #1 and #2 respectively
"Madison Square Garden is the ultimate basketball stage. That's where I belong. That's where I live. That's the home of the New York Knicks." - Amar'e Stoudemire
by Chris Child's Fist on Oct 6, 2011 12:22 PM EDT reply actions
1996
I think anyone who watched the 1996 season, like I did, would say Mo hands-down. First of all, I watched just about every game that year and if you did, you’d remember like I do that the Yanks lost only THREE games the whole year when leading after SIX innings (unfortunately I was at the last of those games, a Wettland blown game in Sept). That was due to Mo pitching 2 innings & Wettland pitching one. They were 70-3 after 6 innings, most teams didn’t have that good a record after 8 innings.
Mo was absolutely dominant. That was the year an AL manager (Gardenhire I think) said that Mo belonged in a different league. He was able to get into a jam and then strike out the side.
Like the above poster says, how dominant of a reliever must you be to get 3rd in the Cy Young vote, as a setup man? Robertson won’t even finish third in the CY Young voting on the Yankees this year, much less the league.
With all due respect to Robertson, and I do hope he continues playing the way he did this year, as far as the comparison goes, there’s no contest.
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