Steroids and the Hall of Fame
For a long time I was strongly on the "if you took steroids you should not be allowed to enter the Hall of Fame" side of the argument. I thought I would never change my stance, and I'm surprised as I write this that I have changed my stance.
After seeing some arguments here about Alex Rodriguez, Andy Pettitte, and the Hall of Fame, now is as good of a time as ever to explain my change of mind.
A friend of mine said to me one sentence that completely changed my take on the Hall of Fame.
"If Babe Ruth played in the steroid era you know he would have used steroids."
There is no way this can be proven right, and I won't even bother giving an opinion on whether or not it is right. More importantly, though, there is no way you can prove it wrong.
Certain players I think of and think "there is no way they would," but that doesn't change the fact that that is only an opinion. Unless we go back in time, offer the players steroids, and see how they respond, we cannot just assume they wouldn't use, and let them into the Hall of Fame.
By keeping them out because of steroid usage, you're punishing players like Rodriguez and Pettitte because of the era they played in. If you want to keep them out because of lack of stats, or talent, sure, for Rodriguez that would be silly, but that is up to you. Leaving Rodriguez or Pettitte out because of steroids is like leaving older players out for using bigger bats.
37 comments
|
0 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
yes, yes i would
never mind that he and sammy sosa saved baseball after the strike. we allowed spitballers into the hall of fame, and they have a tool that we cant use now. single season wins record wont be touched for many reasons, but 9 of the top ten single season era records are spitballers, many of their records wont be touched just like bonds wont be. i agree that we should just call the 90s and early 2000s the steroid era and move on.
עם ישראל חי
סבלנות
נח''ל
by nodisrespect on Sep 22, 2011 6:42 PM EDT up reply actions
Agreed
To me it’s like saying all the player with did anfedimeans in the 60’s shouldn’t be allowed in either. Let’s face it players will do what ever they can to gain a competitive edge.
If ’roid use was as rampant as Conseco and others say, well, then the playing field was pretty much even.
Arod deserves to be in period his numbers are consistent and if anything some would say all the recent injuries may be the payback for using.
I disagree on a few things Barnd.
Barry Bonds is a Hall of Famer, and he was even before he was on the juice. Him not being in the Hall would be a travesty.
I tend to think of it like this.
If someone came up to me and offered me something that would make me ten times better at my job and have the chance to set up my family for life with millions of dollars, I would do it.
I can’’t fault players for that.
Isn’t the job of players to try to be the best they can?
In that era, steroids helped them achieve that. Baseball writers want to make themselves feel important in my opinion. They do so by trying to opine on the morality of players.
If a player has the numbers to back up a hall of fame candidacy, he should be in the Hall of Fame unless he does something outrageous such as murder etc. Writers should stop trying to keep great players out and just accept that steroids were commonplace in that era.
"It's kind of like the Garden. It's the same feel. It's special." - Deron Williams on the Barclays Center.
MarShon Brooks has the dreaded.
Need to see how it keeps developing, his story and stuff.
Follow me on twitter @nyybrandonc
Writer/Editor for Pinstripe Alley, Blueshirt Banter
"No matter what I talk about, I always get back to baseball."
"Every day is a great day for hockey."
Let's see...
He comes back past 40 years old, close to two years removed from playing pro ball, signs for the league min. to play DH, and sucks at baseball. How does that help/hurt his case?
by Scooby Snacks on Sep 22, 2011 11:47 PM EDT up reply actions
mannys a hall of famer to me.
עם ישראל חי
סבלנות
נח''ל
by nodisrespect on Sep 22, 2011 6:43 PM EDT up reply actions
He got caught 3 times. He should be banned simply for bring a moron.
by lololol on Sep 22, 2011 7:10 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions 3 recs
Flawed Logic
“More importantly, though, there is no way you can prove it wrong.”
Although I do agree that superstars from the past would undoubtedly take whatever advantages (i.e., steroids, etc.) that are available to them, this type of statement is weak to use as an argument. Just because you can’t disprove something does not mean it is true. You can’t disprove UFOs or intelligent alien lifeforms or whatever, but does it necessarily mean that’s true, too? There’s a million examples here, just a random note that stuck out.
I agree that steriod use during the steroid era should not be an automatic disqualification from consideration
However, perhaps they should do something to distinguish different eras of the game (color-coded markers on the plaques, perhaps?). The game was different in the dead-ball era than live-ball era. It was different before Jackie Robinshon. It was different in the Steroid Era™, it was different pre- and post-expansion, it is different now that they’ve changed the playoff structure. As such, players from one era can’t really be compared that well to players in another era (though I know someone will say something about WAR being the great equalizer since “all’s fair in love and WAR”). If they came up with a way to identify more easily the era in which each player played, perhaps more people would be willing to allow players from the Steroid Era™ in.
I mostly agree with you
I have always tought that they shouldnt punish players that were doing it BEFORE they were prohibited, it was like any other suplement they take now, what if tomorrow they say that drinking gatorade is cheating? Are they going to punish players from this era because they were drinking it? Laws cant be retroactive in any free country of the world, you have the right to now what you can and cannot do before being acussed of something
by josechell on Sep 22, 2011 8:57 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
And...
If you dont support (and rec) this, you dont believe in America and you dont support freedom
by josechell on Sep 22, 2011 9:01 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Oh, you went to the America and freedom line
Well played!
Follow me on twitter @nyybrandonc
Writer/Editor for Pinstripe Alley, Blueshirt Banter
"No matter what I talk about, I always get back to baseball."
"Every day is a great day for hockey."
I'm on your side
I was defending you, now I’m not sure if I made any sense
I think you started off with a good argument then sort of lost it.
Follow me on twitter @nyybrandonc
Writer/Editor for Pinstripe Alley, Blueshirt Banter
"No matter what I talk about, I always get back to baseball."
"Every day is a great day for hockey."
The part about freedom was supposed to be a joke
I dont really think its that big of a deal
Roids
That is the dumbest article on the subject ever written. Who would have taken roids before they were invented if they could have had them. You must be in the 5th grade and arguing with your sister. Do you or your advisers know, that arguably the best baseball player who ever played the game is not in the hall of fame, for cheating? If Shoeless Joe is out, so are the roid era cheaters. If baseball can keep its focus on right and wrong for 50 years and more, they can keep the cheaters out. The issue of before it was illegal is another argument for another day. For today, whoever took them when it was illegal is out; period. Nothing to argue about.
I don’t know if I should be honored or offended!
Follow me on twitter @nyybrandonc
Writer/Editor for Pinstripe Alley, Blueshirt Banter
"No matter what I talk about, I always get back to baseball."
"Every day is a great day for hockey."
Bigger bats
Sorry to tack on, but I just noticed the comment at the end about bigger bats. That is every bit as stupid as the comment that players would have used roids if they had them before they existed. Bigger bats hit fewer home runs. They do not help, unless you mean they are bigger and weigh less, and that might not work because of more surface to push more air out of the way. But the heavier the bat, the slower the club head speed, and the slower the speed, the shorter distance the ball flies. I thought everyone knew about clubhead speed. Heavier bats meant fewer home runs. If Ruth and others knew about clubhead speed, they would have hit even more home runs. But saying that there is no way to prove that older players would not have used steroids, is insane. It was not done so it does not have to be proven they would not do it.
How do they attempt to do something they didn't know about?
If the Captain America super human serum existed i bet 99% of the world’s population would try to get their hands on it. Too bad it doesn’t exist (yet) so obviously it’s proof that no body wants to be super human.
The problem with gambling offenses is that if you’re being paid to throw a game, you’re not actually trying to win. Steroids are bad, but a player using them is trying to get stronger, recover from an injury earlier, etc.
Cheating to get ahead is a lot different than being paid to purposely lose.
.
I have to agree
Fixing games is a far bigger offense than taking a drug. In the end it all comes down to money. The players did it for the money, the owners pretended to be blind to it for the money and the almighty media also was “blind” to it while it sold papers, generated hits and produced ratings. After Bonds broke the record so soon after McGwire/Sosa, it wasnt such a big deal any longer so the media needed a new thing to spin and the PED story was it.
If someone offered any person that posts on PSA millions of dollars to do PEDs, I would bet 99% would do it. Im not saying taking PEDs is right, but I understand why the players did it and they will have to live with the health issues later in life. Guys like McGwire and Sosa helped the game more than Ripken ever could and for that I give them my HOF vote.
Should you choose to test my resolve in this matter, you will be facing a finality beyond your comprehension, and you will not be counting days, or months, or years, but milleniums in a place with no doors.
by YankeesJets on Sep 23, 2011 11:10 AM EDT up reply actions
It's okay that you changed your mind, Barndon (if that is in fact your real name), but your reasoning makes no sense.
As Montgomery Burns said while comparing himself to Oskar Schindler, “We both sold munitions to the Nazis. The only difference is that mine actually worked.” This is the difference between steroids and the monkey testosterone that players tried in the ‘30s. Also, the hot dog and beer diet didn’t really work out, either.
Punishing Pettitte and Rodriguez for using steroids is not punishing them for their era, it’s punishing them for using steroids. As Derek Jeter (another cartoon character) angrily said, “Not everyone did it.”
There are rational
by designatedquitter on Sep 23, 2011 9:37 AM EDT reply actions
oops didnt mean to hit 'post'
There are rational arguments for and against roiders in the HOF. But the the "Babe woulda’ argument does not follow.
by designatedquitter on Sep 23, 2011 9:38 AM EDT up reply actions
Good point
I’d vote ARod in, but I still have a problem with the guys who denied taking steroids even though they were caught (Ramirez,Ortiz, McGwire).

by 





































