Pathetic Part II
by Brandon C. on Jul 4, 2011 11:00 AM EDT
in New York Yankees Analysis
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PrintDefinition of the word pathetic is "miserably inadequate." This word seems to perfectly sum up how the Yankees management has handled transactions this season.
The Yankees sent down rookie Ivan Nova yesterday and recalled Lance Pendleton. Pendleton will be sent down soon to make room for Phil Hughes, who is returning from a DL stint.
I have no problem with Phil Hughes taking his rotation spot back. What I do have a problem with is Ivan Nova losing his spot in the major leagues because the likes of Sergio Mitre and Freddy Garcia are out of options.
I'm not a big sabermagician, sabermetrician, or whatever you want to call it, but Freddy Garcia has been extremely lucky this season. Much more so than Ivan Nova, at least, yet Nova is the one being demoted.
I am not suggesting Garcia should be demoted, but instead Garcia should be switched into a long relief role, and Ivan Nova should keep his rotation spot. Nova has pitched fantastically lately, and has not given anyone reasons to believe that will change.
The Yankees continue to worship their mop up men, and shun their talented pitchers. Whether it's promoting Lance Pendleton instead of George Kontos, or adding Sergio Mitre to the roster instead of promoting Kontos, or keeping Mitre on the roster instead of Nova, the Yankees will do anything to keep their out of options pitchers.
The reality that the Yankees refuse to acknowledge is that the Yankees do not need the out of options pitchers. If the Yankees designate Lance Pendleton, or Sergio Mitre for assignment, the sport of baseball will not cease to exist. The Yankees will not stop winning. In fact, the Yankees will stand a heck of a better chance of winning. Maybe a team like the Royals will pick up Pendleton and he will throw a few good innings, but the Yankees don't need him. The Yankees can replace Pendleton with anyone off their AAA roster. Even AA. Same for Mitre.
So, Ivan Nova is now in the minors, with absolutely nothing to work on other than becoming more of a mop. Perhaps he will model his hair after a mop, who knows. While the Yankees arguably third best starter wastes away Sergio Mitre stands on a major league mound triumphantly. Triumphantly until he gives up four runs, of course.
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But... but...
Unless you're a pitcher or Gustavo Molina, kindly SWING THE BAT and ignore the Binder's bunt signal.
Who's bright idea was it to take Meat-Tray back again, anyways?????
And I thought we were finally rid of him!
On top of that, who’s bright idea was it to demote Nova?
I thought we were rid of Mop-Tray for good
Does he have naked photos of Girardi/Cashman?
by BrooksBridges11 on Jul 4, 2011 11:58 AM EDT reply actions
We would be better off
Letting Joba and Soriano throw lefthanded and let Pedro pitch right handed then let Mitre Pendleton and Ayla be in our pen
by Kmillz2525 on Jul 4, 2011 12:14 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
The probable truth is that the Yankees find no use of middle relievers
I imagine they believe that anyone who can throw a ball from the mound to the plate can be used in relief so they stock up on interchangeable nobodies. Some will get the job done, some won’t and it doesn’t really matter who. Talented relievers are either stretched out into starters or traded for something else they need because to the Yankees, a talented reliever is worth more in a trade than in their bullpen. This is why we have the mop brigade, because without ‘elite’ relievers, the Yankees just don’t give a shit
We do have a few "elite" relievers
For example: Mo, Robertson
A few of our “elite” relievers are currently on the DL: Joba, Soriano, Pedro
We also have a few decent “second-tier” relievers: Logan, Ayala, Noesi
However, for some reason we seem to have this need for a dozen long relievers, most of whom aren’t exactly good: Pendleton, Mitre, Wade
Personally, I’d rather have seen Nova stay in the rotation, Garcia move to the pen in long relief, and not have actually gotten Mitre. Of course, if Mitre does have naked pictures of Joe, Cashman, and the baby bosses together, then I suppose we could do without Pendleton or Wade.
Mitre sucks
But please do not make me defend freddy again. Yes he gives up a ton of line drives and yes he has been lucky…but yesterday showed us why he isn’t that much worse than nova and why he was provided decent value this season.
also i rather have us bring up that AAA closer again or a lefty because mitre sucks…
Agreed on Freddy.
I don’t care how he gets it done. It works. Wins are more important than Ks.
by jimitre on Jul 4, 2011 12:26 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I read on a SWB Yanks blog that...
Nova is supposdly only demoted to give him a short rest and he will be back.
I agree that we don’t need Meat-Tray or Pendlepuller…but I don’t think they’ll be necessary anyway.
Who would have thought at the beginning of the season that some mops and an overabundance of good starters would be our problem come July? These are problems I can live with.
by jimitre on Jul 4, 2011 12:21 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
What Freddy Garcia has been
is effective. He has given up seven earned runs in his last five starts. Eight of his last nine starts have been quality starts. After 15 starts, he has an ERA of 3.13, which puts him in the top 20 in the AL among those who have pitched at least 84 innings. It’s time to give up on the idea that he is just lucky.
Mickey C
I agree that Garcia has been effective
I just think Nova has more upside than Garcia; hence, Nova should be in the rotation
Its always better to be lucky than good
Should you choose to test my resolve in this matter, you will be facing a finality beyond your comprehension, and you will not be counting days, or months, or years, but milleniums in a place with no doors.
He also has the 3rd highest LD% in MLB.
Like it or not, that’s getting lucky.
It's like being a huge fan of winning, which we do, relentlessly.
by WhatwouldJeterdo on Jul 4, 2011 1:33 PM EDT up reply actions
You're right about Mitre, but wrong about Garcia
Mitre has no business being on this team or in this organization. I think we’re all in agreement on that.
Sending Nova down is tough, but probably the right choice. Remember, as we saw with Phil Hughes in 09, the Yankee policy is that once a pitcher moves to the pen, he must not start the rest of the season. Therefore Nova to the pen was not a good option.
As for Garcia, he has no value in the bullpen, and sending him down would have meant exposing him to waivers where there is a 100% chance he would have been claimed. I’m with you that this is a bad reason for the Yankees to hang on to scrubs, but Garcia isn’t a scrub. He has been very solid, lucky or not, and to simply cast him off would have been stupid. We haven’t seen Hughes at full strength in a long time, and Colon is an injury time bomb. If we got rid of Garcia and we lost one of those two, we’d be looking at either Mitre or Brian Gordon in the rotation, since the Yankees have an odd aversion to using their actual prospects.
So it sucks for Ivan Nova who deserves to be in the major leagues, but we’ll see him again this season. For now it was the right move.
by Let's Talk About Tex Baby on Jul 4, 2011 12:51 PM EDT reply actions
Why does Garcia have no value in the bullpen? What proof do you have?
Unless you're a pitcher or Gustavo Molina, kindly SWING THE BAT and ignore the Binder's bunt signal.
The word was that Garcia takes too long to loosen up to be usable in the bullpen. This is why they put Colon in the bullpen to start the season, he could warm up faster.
So now the guys in the subway are saying Jesus is coming on October 21, 2011, but that would mean he wouldn't be on the playoff roster, let alone be eligible for it. I really don't know where these guys are getting their information from...
Garcia doesnt have the stuff that translates to a good bullpen arm
Should you choose to test my resolve in this matter, you will be facing a finality beyond your comprehension, and you will not be counting days, or months, or years, but milleniums in a place with no doors.
either does anyone in the bullpen aside from MO and Robertson
Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows
And in turn
Your proof that he does have value there? It works both ways you know.
Congrats to all who have turned PA into the Yahoo comment boards. New it couldn't last forever. Damn idiots had to go and win the World Series. The dude at the 7 eleven keeps saying fat man in undearwear punch my eye.
Lol, Nova has nothing to work on in the minors?
Are you serious? I’m going to pretend like I didn’t read that because of how dumb it is.
I know it’s the fun and popular thing to try and bash guys like Mitre and Pendleton, but in reality who is a better option to be a long releiver? Should be burn an option on Adam Warren or David Phelps so they can come up to the big leagues and throw 40 innings in blowouts and the occasional extra inning game? Your long reliever needs to be someone you canput on the bench for 7 or 8 days in a row and never see the light of day. And you want to bury an actual prospect there? Why? So you can write another knee jerk “article” about how the Yankees are mismanaging yet another pitching prospect?
I just don’t see it, I’m sorry.
Strikeouts are boring- Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.
I have to agree on certain parts here
Pendleton, while he may be MAH BOY, isn’t going to be much more than a mop ever in his career and so I would rather he rot on the bench than Noesi and Nova both battling it out for the chance to see the light before Girardi’s heart of hearts Mitre pitches in mop situations.
That said, this article does represent a valid point, in that management has been loathe to use their prospects at all, and I would not argue against a few weeks of Phelps or Warren. I think management has a reason behind their mop-love, and that is luck.
How lucky have the Yanks been? Colon and Garcia have been much more than expected, and Colon has already been injured once this season. Hughes could go down as well. The Yanks need insurance, even if it is for one game at a time, because at any time, our rotation could implode.
Remember when I was Lance Pendleton's biggest fan? Back to reality.
I don't see how you can say they have been loathe to use their prospects?
Nova has been in the rotation since the beginning of the year, despite a few clunkers along the way. The only reason he’s being moved down to AAA is to make way for another prospect/former prospect Phil Hughes.
If anything, they are overvaluing them and not taking them and shoe horning them into shitty short term bullpen roles. Nobody on the farm is going to supplant Colon in the near future and I don’t see what’s wrong with riding Garcia’s arm as long as we possibly can. Nova can go chill in Scranton and refine that slider and changeup while Sweaty Freddy can do his thang until his luck runs out. Besides, how many good sliders and changes has he been throwing lately? I’d say less than 3 or 4 a game. If he goes to the minors he can work on throwing them in all counts whenever he wants, instead of worrying about trying to be perfect and win games. I think this could be a very good thing for young Ivan. Hopefully he sees where his pitching is lacking and goes down to Scranton and just goes to work all the while knowing he’s the first one they call if someone goes down.
Strikeouts are boring- Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.
Montero, El Chato, Phelps, Warren not getting called up.
Noesi barely getting any time to play. Loathe to use them.
Remember when I was Lance Pendleton's biggest fan? Back to reality.
Hahah so if Noesi barely got any playing time
where are Phelps and Warren (both not on the 40 man) going to get innings?
Strikeouts are boring- Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.
The idea that the long man needs to be a nobody who can pitch meaningless innings is a bunch of crap. You can’t waste an entire roster spot on someone who can’t actually pitch in high leverage situations and the Yankees already have most of their bullpen made up of them. it’s ideas like this that keep people like Sergio Mitre employed.
So who is this mystical relief pitcher that can be a longman
AND pitch in high leverage situations? Is this person in our farm system? Is this person readily available for trade? DO they grow on a tree in the Dominican somewhere?
Strikeouts are boring- Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.
we used to have someone called Ramiro Mendoza
that was back when we actually used our pitching prospects like Mo, Pettitte, Posada, Jeter…
Hughes
Why isn’t Hughes being used in the bullpen for the 7th or 8th inning like 2009? Let’s see if his arm holds out short term. As for Colon & Garcia, I’d ride the train until it stops – neither of these guys is any more injury prone than Jose Reyes, Eric Chavez, etc. Colon has been great – he could easily win 15 games or more.
To answer your Hughes question: because the Yankees finally got something right.
Contributing writer for Pinstripe Alley.
I believe in the Church of Baseball.
- Annie Savoy
You go through The Sporting News for the last 100 years, and you will find two things are always true. You never have enough pitching, and nobody ever made money.
- Donald Fehr
by Frank Campagnola on Jul 4, 2011 4:57 PM EDT up reply actions
I have a question for the saber guys
I know Hughes is supposed to be the better pitcher but what do his numbers look like next to Nova’s? I mean the saber stuff because I know Hughes wins last year masks the fact he was mediocre and received a ton of run support. Thanks, appreciate it.
Should you choose to test my resolve in this matter, you will be facing a finality beyond your comprehension, and you will not be counting days, or months, or years, but milleniums in a place with no doors.
Hughes 2010: 4.25 FIP, 4.13 xFIP. 7.45 K/9, 2.96 BB/9, 36% groundballs.
Nova 2011: 4.42 FIP, 4.21 xFIP. 5.01 K/9, 3.63 BB/9, 55% groundballs.
If Hughes could get groundballs like Nova AND keep the K-rate, I’d have a huge man crush on him. Of the two, I’d Take Hughes simply because he doesn’t walk as many and strikes out more, but Nova gets a lot more grounders and its obviously better to have grounder than fly balls.
Contributing writer for Pinstripe Alley.
I believe in the Church of Baseball.
- Annie Savoy
You go through The Sporting News for the last 100 years, and you will find two things are always true. You never have enough pitching, and nobody ever made money.
- Donald Fehr
by Frank Campagnola on Jul 5, 2011 12:24 AM EDT up reply actions
Thanks, I wondered how far off they were
I do agree with the move right now. Nova is better off down in AAA then in the pen, as it will only be a matter of time till we need him to start again in the majors.
Should you choose to test my resolve in this matter, you will be facing a finality beyond your comprehension, and you will not be counting days, or months, or years, but milleniums in a place with no doors.
The Yanks average just over 5 runs per game (5.2 with Jete, 5.7 without).
Phil Hughes will get the run support he needs and he’s more of a veteran at this point. They have to get him back in the swing of things before the post-season. Ivan Nova is the next Phil Hughes and they will baby his arm like they did for Phil and Joba.
Personally, I think the Yanks are holding out for next year when they will become a lot younger.
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