Hector Noesi to the Rotation
by jscape2000 on Jun 8, 2011 3:00 PM EDT
in New York Yankees Analysis
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PrintI don't mean today, necessarily, and I don't mean forever.
Young starters are an interesting thing. Most come up and enjoy some early success before the league adjusts. Whether the starter can adjust back determines what kind of career he'll have- can he change his pitch patterns, mix up his pitch speeds, or develop a new pitch to keep hitters guessing?
Why not ride that wave as far as it'll take us?
The recent agonies of Joba Chamberlain and Phil Hughes have taught me that the industry knows precious little about how to protect a pitcher's arm. I think guys should practice by throwing more, but I also think that they should throw less in game situations- never leave a young guy on the mound for 30 pitches in a single inning, extra rest between starts whenever possible, if you warm a guy up he has to get in the game or be done for the night.
Why not tell Noesi he's headed to the rotation effective July 1? Stretch him out in AAA for 3 or 4 starts, and then put him in place of either Nova or Garcia?
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At the game last night...
I was watching him pitch and come out every inning and I was surprised. He had 1 mistake, the Ortiz home run, but other than that he did great. I think he gave 5-6 innings after Garcia.
Fun game to be at last night. Some annoying Red Sox fans, but it was all good.
Hollywood as Hell
"I'm coming after whoever who has it."
His joke was that all Red Sox fans are annoying, so you didn’t need to say it, it’s implied
So now the guys in the subway are saying Jesus is coming on October 21, 2011, but that would mean he wouldn't be on the playoff roster, let alone be eligible for it. I really don't know where these guys are getting their information from...
Even the pitch to Ortiz wasn’t a bad mistake. He got the pitch inside but Ortiz was cheating in and then flipped the bat and did his little 360 spin.
That really pissed me off
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by Frank Campagnola on Jun 8, 2011 3:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Yea.
And Teix got hurt. From where I stood it looked like he got hit on the foot, but someone said the knee?
"I'm coming after whoever who has it."
Because Garcia's actual perfomance number don't demand his removal from the rotation
And unless we believe that Nova will not be a starter for us in the future, we should deal with his growing pains. We can’t yank him starter-pen-starter-pen like we did with Joba.
If Garcia regresses, Noesi is our insurance policy. But Garcia has not had back-to-back bad starts yet this year. Wait for him to regress before pulling him, because right now he’s doing a fine job. Additionally, I believe the word is that Garcia isn’t effective out of the pen. Noesi is, obviously. So as long as Garcia is effective as a starter, leave him in.
I dispense B.S. and facts. It is up to you to figure out which is which.
Per Earl Weaver: Rookies pitch long relief.
But Noesi is looking more like a 2012 starter than at least 40% of the present rotation.
If there is another injury to the present starting five, I would plug in Noesi in a heartbeat.
Also, I believe the way you protect your hand from injury is to immerse it in urine. The way to protect your arm is the same.
by designatedquitter on Jun 8, 2011 3:25 PM EDT reply actions
Meh. To be honest, at this point I think Garcia, Nova, and Noesi are pretty much interchangeable. They are all serviceable back-end starters who you can reasonably expect 5-6 innings of below league average but above replacement level performance from.
Sure, you could try to shuffle things and try to ride the hot hand, but you have no idea when that hot streak is going to start and stop, and you need to somehow manage the roster, so I would just leave things as-is until somebody clearly pitches himself out of the rotation. Nova and Garcia haven’t yet.
In reality, these guys are all just placeholders until Banuelos, Betances, or an as-yet unnamed free agent or trade target emerges.
Sigh.
It's like being a huge fan of winning, which we do, relentlessly.
by WhatwouldJeterdo on Jun 8, 2011 4:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Just as insurance
I would think they would also make a move with one of the other interchangeable relievers with the team to bring up a first baseman or corner outfielder but who knows
You'd think so, but I don't trust them to do what makes sense at this point.
If we start Tex and his knee bothers him, with Jorge unavailable, Sir Hacksalot Jones is going to have to play. This team is frustrating sometimes.
It's like being a huge fan of winning, which we do, relentlessly.
by WhatwouldJeterdo on Jun 8, 2011 4:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Noesi getting sent down makes sense
Not sure I understand why they’re bringing in Marquez though. He just got DFA’d by Chicago. Certainly they had a better option in-system…?
"Game's the same, just got more fierce." ~ Slim Charles
I guess they figure he's better than Sanit or Carlyle
And they want to keep Mitchell and Phelps on a regular starting schedule
He is likely just a fresh arm that they don’t care about using as cannon fodder if another starter implodes. Don’t really want to screw up someone in the organization that we care about by putting them in such a role.
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With Joba out now too (per below)
Seems you’re gonna need more than cannon fodder. We’ve got two frontline relievers left in Mo and Houdini, then Ayala, Pendleton, Boone. That’s not much. I’m sure we’ll all hope for AJ and CC to go 7 the next couple games…
"Game's the same, just got more fierce." ~ Slim Charles
I don’t disagree, I was just providing the likely rationale. With Joba out, I would have called up Kevin Whelan, who is dominating as Scranton’s closer and could probably be the binders 6th or 7th inning man.
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Too bad they didn't start Tim Norton in AAA from the start of the season
He could have been one to make the jump
Whelan is exactly who I had in mind
Kontos has been solid too, tho neither is on the 40-man. Scratching my head.
"Game's the same, just got more fierce." ~ Slim Charles
Mop up men FOREVER.
It's like being a huge fan of winning, which we do, relentlessly.
by WhatwouldJeterdo on Jun 8, 2011 4:29 PM EDT up reply actions
Seriously.
Have you counted the number of mop up guys on the 40 man lately?
It's like being a huge fan of winning, which we do, relentlessly.
by WhatwouldJeterdo on Jun 8, 2011 4:30 PM EDT up reply actions
Ayala, Carlyle, Garrison, Marquez, Pendleton, Sanit, Texeira
GUSTAVO MOLINA
It's like being a huge fan of winning, which we do, relentlessly.
by WhatwouldJeterdo on Jun 8, 2011 4:34 PM EDT up reply actions
^ People worthy of being on the 40 man ^
People not worthy of being on the 40 man:
Baby Jesus, Chato…
It's like being a huge fan of winning, which we do, relentlessly.
by WhatwouldJeterdo on Jun 8, 2011 4:35 PM EDT up reply actions
Just awful
I wish I could be a fly on the wall to watch this decision-making.
"Game's the same, just got more fierce." ~ Slim Charles
The 40 man roster only exists to protect replacement level players from getting taken in the Rule 5 draft. #ThingsTheYankeesThink
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They just put Joba on the DL with a flexor muscle injury.
That’s why no one was DFA’d for Marquez.
It's like being a huge fan of winning, which we do, relentlessly.
by WhatwouldJeterdo on Jun 8, 2011 4:08 PM EDT reply actions
Uh-oh, he was injured as a relief pitcher? His shoulder obviously can't handle it.
Better make him a starting pitcher.
Also
This means that if our starters can’t go 6-7 the next couple of weeks we’re going to see a lot of Ayala and Logan in close games :/
But….but….the formula! Shortening games! With a dominant Jo-So-Mo, all we have to do is be leading after six innings! When has investing in relief pitchers ever gone wrong?
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They expect Joba to be out 3-4 weeks...
It's like being a huge fan of winning, which we do, relentlessly.
by WhatwouldJeterdo on Jun 8, 2011 4:28 PM EDT up reply actions
If you replace Nova with Noesi, you’re just trading one set of growing pains and adjustments for another. As Nova has already thrown ~100 innings of starting in the majors, he’s probably getting a fairly good idea of what it takes. I don’t see the point in swapping them and undoing the progress that Nova is making just to start all over again with Noesi.
Nova has more innings and more success at the higher levels of the minors, and has always been regarded as the superior prospect. I’d definitely rather stick it out with him than pull the plug for Noesi.
As for Garcia, he has been on borrowed time all season. While Noesi will probably not light it up in the rotation once he gets exposed and teams start game planning for him, I think that he could at least match what Garcia could do. As Noesi is likely to improve in this season and beyond, Garcia implosions are likely to come at a more and more frequent rate. So, with that said, I’d have no issue putting Noesi in Garcia’s spot in the rotation.
But if I know anything about Joe Girardi and the organization, they will give the benefit of the doubt to Garcia because he’s a veteran and give the axe (if there is ever a move) to Nova because he’s “frustrating.”
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More good news pouring in:
Ledger_Yankees Star Ledger
Martin’s back locked up last night
Baby. Jesus. Time.
Oh, and Sanit was also called up.
It's like being a huge fan of winning, which we do, relentlessly.
by WhatwouldJeterdo on Jun 8, 2011 4:12 PM EDT reply actions
So we have half a catcher, half a 1st baseman
200 mop up relievers!
It's like being a huge fan of winning, which we do, relentlessly.
by WhatwouldJeterdo on Jun 8, 2011 4:14 PM EDT up reply actions
Paper thin depth at catcher and first base —> Call up more mop up relievers. Never Montero or Vazquez.
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Seriously.
This is insanity.
It's like being a huge fan of winning, which we do, relentlessly.
by WhatwouldJeterdo on Jun 8, 2011 4:20 PM EDT up reply actions
Swisher to 1B, Druw in RF.
"Have faith in the Yankees, my son. Think of the great DiMaggio."
@jscape2000
Yeah, this can definitely be done, if we’re willing to suffer through Jones. But there is a much more pressing need there than adding yet another long man to the pen.
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So we got Teixiara and Marquez back...
Now all we have to do is trade for Johnny Nunez and Wilson Betemit and we’ll have the band back together!
So we now have Pendleton, Marquez, and Sanit in our pen? How many low leverage mop up innings are we expecting to need to pitch in the next few days, and is that really any type of priority?
It seems like a major overkill on minimally important mop up men when we have glaring needs in short relief (Whelan), first base (Vazquez) and catcher (Montero).
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Riddle me this:
Martin can’t play for the next few days so Cervelli starts. In his 1st at-bat, Cervelli is drilled in the foot and has to leave the game. Who catches? Do we forfeit?
It's like being a huge fan of winning, which we do, relentlessly.
by WhatwouldJeterdo on Jun 8, 2011 4:37 PM EDT reply actions
Mo catches
I dispense B.S. and facts. It is up to you to figure out which is which.
Georgie is the emergency I would guess
"It's not just linebackers. This is Penn State linebackers, man. We're a certain type. We've gotta be aggressive, relentless, focused. Don't talk. Don't talk at all. We don't showboat or anything. We just play hard and get the job done." -Khairi Fortt
I doubt it, and he's not going to be there tonight anyway.
It's like being a huge fan of winning, which we do, relentlessly.
by WhatwouldJeterdo on Jun 8, 2011 4:42 PM EDT up reply actions
I just looked up why he isn't there
that’s some scary stuff
"It's not just linebackers. This is Penn State linebackers, man. We're a certain type. We've gotta be aggressive, relentless, focused. Don't talk. Don't talk at all. We don't showboat or anything. We just play hard and get the job done." -Khairi Fortt
Definitely.
It's like being a huge fan of winning, which we do, relentlessly.
by WhatwouldJeterdo on Jun 8, 2011 4:46 PM EDT up reply actions
He’s nicked up as well, and they have said that he will not do any catching at all this season due to prior health concerns.
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Well
in that case I vote we just prop a bat in the dirt and tie a glove to it.
"It's not just linebackers. This is Penn State linebackers, man. We're a certain type. We've gotta be aggressive, relentless, focused. Don't talk. Don't talk at all. We don't showboat or anything. We just play hard and get the job done." -Khairi Fortt
One of Lance Pendleton, Jeff Marquez, or Amauri Sanit. Why else would we need all three of them?
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In all seriousness, looking through the roster, I would have to say that the most likely candidates for emergency catcher are Eduardo Nunez and Chris Dickerson. But the fact that we’re even having this discussion when we’ve got Montero at AAA is completely insane.
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Has anyone actually seen Noesi's peripherals?
His <2 ERA hides a 3.52 K/9, 2.93 BB/9, and 34% GB%. That combines for a 4.70 xFIP. He’s been getting lucky in almost every way possible, sporting a .217 BABIP, 89% LOB%, and 4.8 HR/FB%.
Well, of course no one thinks he’s a sub 2 ERA pitcher. But over a tiny sample size, I’m much more concerned with how he pitches than how his peripherals stack up. He has shown fastball command to both corners and the ability to mix in multiple breaking pitches.
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Granted, I think I've only seen him twice, both in mop-up duty.
But I haven’t seen anything particularly impressive about him. Though I will give you the benefit of the doubt on his performance, I still think it’s premature that people are calling for him to move to the rotation.
Actually, sending him down may be a first step in moving toward the rotation!
When Jscape speaks, Cashman listens!
"I’m never really surprised, but I am thrilled sometimes." Joe G. 2010
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