Minnesota Twins 5, New York Yankees 4: Fire Girardi Part I?
by Brandon C. on Apr 5, 2011 10:42 PM EDT
in Game Recap
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The New York Yankees defeated the Minnesota Twins tonight, thanks to home runs by Mark Teixeira and Andruw Jones, and a four out save by Mariano Rivera.
The Minnesota Twins defeated the New York Yankees tonight, thanks in part to Yankees manager Joe Girardi.
Mark Teixeira continued his unbelievable start to the season, as he hit a three run home run in the first. Andruw Jones added a solo home run to give the Yankees their four runs. After that, the Yankees were shut down for the second straight night.
CC Sabathia threw seven outstanding innings, retiring seventeen consecutive batters to finish his outing.
Everything seemed perfect until the eighth inning. Rafael Soriano entered the game, and everyone assumed it was lights out time. Everyone was wrong. Play by play: walk, out, walk, single, strikeout, walk. One run scored from all of that, and Mariano Rivera was ready in the pen. Perfect, the Yankees can go to the greatest reliever of all time to finish this, right? Wrong.
In came David Robertson, Houdini himself. All the Yankees needed was one out to basically win the game, and Rivera was certainly ready to go in. Girardi went with Robertson, and hitter Delmon Young hit a three run double.
The Yankees hitters continued to falter, and the Twins eventually took advantage of lefty Boone Logan. Logan channeled his inner Rafael Soriano, giving up a walk, single, and single, including the winning run.
Two simple questions for Girardi: Why Soriano in the 8th in a four run game if Robertson warmed up specifically for the 8th, and then why Robertson over Rivera when the game was on the line?
Also, Rafael Soriano, if you are pitching with a four run lead, you can not walk batters.
The Yankees play again tomorrow with a bitter taste in their mouths. Should be interesting to watch, as Freddy Garcia will make his first start in pinstripes.
Comment of the Game: pinstriper, for a completely accurate response.
I left after the 4th and just got back
What the heck happened!?!?!
by pastor2b
Girardi started to manage.
by pinstriper
Play of the Game: When Andruw Jones got free onion rings! You know he was Jonesing for those all game!
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Sigh
You guys will never be happy with Joe, no matter what he does.
by Branta on Apr 5, 2011 10:44 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
I’m actually 99.999999% of the time happy with Joe. Not tonight, though.
Writer for Pinstripe Alley, MLB Daily Dish
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Lets go Rangers!
R-U! R-U! R-U! R-U!
There were a lot of people clamoring for Robertson to start the eighth
Obviously Soriano is the “eighth innning guy,” but when you see something blow up that from the start you disagree with people are going to get angry
CHARLES NOOOOOOOOOO!!!
by Brian5517209 on Apr 5, 2011 10:46 PM EDT up reply actions
I absolutely agree that Soriano was in there for too long
but Robertson got the fly ball that should have gotten them out of trouble. I love Nick, but a stronger outfielder makes that play, tough or not.
Who cares? Would it have been the right managerial move to bring in a hot dog vendor if that guy happened to induce a fly ball out? How D-Rob pitched has nothing to do with the giant flaw in strategy that we are complaining about.
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I'm just gonna repost this from the overflow
Or I would but its gone, so I will paraphrase:
You are convinced that only your way is right. I already conceded that Mo would have gotten the out needed, but you won’t concede that Soriano or Robertson belonged out there. Soriano and Robertson could have (and Robertson should have) gotten them out of the inning. You need more than just 1 pitcher to rely on to get key outs otherwise you won’t win as many games as you hoped. Its not just about playing the odds of winning or the numbers its about building a rapport with your bullpen and getting guys confidence. Its also about not going to the well too early and too often and perhaps over stretching your best reliever.
I really shouldn’t have replied to you. I have no interest in explaining the same obvious things for the billionth time.
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great post by Branta
And if you guys don’t stop the ridiculous over reactions I will take a long break from your site. Use your brain Please!!
For the one million time,
Everything thinks their way is always right OR WE’D HAVE A DIFFERENT OPINION. Using that to insult someone just makes you look silly.
by WhatwouldJeterdo on Apr 5, 2011 11:13 PM EDT up reply actions
It's amazing how I think you completely missed the previous poster's point.
They’re not upset that Soriano & D-Rob came in, or that he brought D-Rob in to pitch after So didn’t have it. People are upset that he even brought in Soriano to begin with. It makes little to no sense. You have a 4 Run lead, Soriano pitched like 19-20 pitches in the previous game, and you have a fully rested David Robertson waiting in the pen. D-Rob should’ve started the inning, not Soriano. If D-Rob falters, THEN you bring in Soriano or maybe even Mariano. Hell, Joba threw less pitches last night than So. It’s not that Soriano was in there for too long. It’s that he started the 8th to begin with.
"WHO WOULD LEAD?! THE CLOWN?!"
by I'mGivingYouARaise on Apr 5, 2011 11:16 PM EDT up reply actions
YOU ARE CONVINCED YOUR WAY IS ALWAYS RIGHT.
by WhatwouldJeterdo on Apr 5, 2011 11:17 PM EDT up reply actions
AND THAT I'M BETTER THAN EVERYONE ELSE!
LoL, seriously though, this isn’t like brainstorming bullpen management here. It’s just common sense.
"WHO WOULD LEAD?! THE CLOWN?!"
by I'mGivingYouARaise on Apr 5, 2011 11:19 PM EDT up reply actions
not many outfielders make that play, that was a long run
I saw a guy in the subway holding a pamphlet that said Jesus was coming on May 12, 2011. I don't think it will be that early, he would still qualify as a super two, so they need to wait until June to delay his arbitration clock.
Exactly.
It wasn’t some high fly ball that Swish just dropped. He all out sprinted and couldn’t get there. Not many can.
by WhatwouldJeterdo on Apr 5, 2011 10:54 PM EDT up reply actions
Ichiro plays right
And could have made that play. Obviously not every RF is Ichiro, but its still one person that could have.
one out of 32
isn’t a reasonable argument for why Swisher “should” have caught that ball. If the other 30 right fielders couldn’t get there, you have to concede it was not Swisher’s “fault” that he didn’t catch it.
Keep in mind that Swisher was playing deeper because they were in a no-doubles defense. Even Ichiro wouldn’t have caught it playing deep like that.
I saw a guy in the subway holding a pamphlet that said Jesus was coming on May 12, 2011. I don't think it will be that early, he would still qualify as a super two, so they need to wait until June to delay his arbitration clock.
it's not the same
because the Yankees actually have Mo. They don’t, however, have a RF comparable to Ichiro (in speed).
I know! yet leaving out soriano out for 32 pitches after a 19 pitch the game before is perfect fine! /girardi logic
Dude, the scoreboard clearly said 8th inning.
That is the inning in which Soriano and only Soriano shall pitch. Forever and ever. Amen.
by WhatwouldJeterdo on Apr 5, 2011 11:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Halelujah!
I saw a guy in the subway holding a pamphlet that said Jesus was coming on May 12, 2011. I don't think it will be that early, he would still qualify as a super two, so they need to wait until June to delay his arbitration clock.
Tell me
Why doesn’t Soriano belong out there? And you cannot use the way he pitched tonight as the reason.
He clearly didn't have it tonight, for whatever reason.
Why do you need any more of a reason than that?
by WhatwouldJeterdo on Apr 5, 2011 11:09 PM EDT up reply actions
That's hindsight
Hindsight doesn’t help you when you’re Joe Girardi at the bottom of the 7th.
Soriano had every right to be out there, but he didn’t pitch well. Once that was obvious, Joe left him out too long. The call to Robertson got them a pop fly. I don’t call anything but leaving Soriano out for too long a mistake, but thats a mistake any manager would make (and the commentators pointed out why, its his mess and Joe wanted him to have the opportunity to work out of it). Soriano got 2 outs before he loaded the bases, Robertson got an out before it hit grass.
It's not an out if no one can get to it.
by WhatwouldJeterdo on Apr 5, 2011 11:12 PM EDT up reply actions
But someone should have
It hung up long enough for Mauer to score from 1st, I don’t think that ball was 270 feet away from any of those 3 men.
Yeah, I'm sure they all just chose not to.
Swish tried, he wasn’t fast enough. Mauer was running on the pitch and isn’t Jorge Posada.
by WhatwouldJeterdo on Apr 5, 2011 11:15 PM EDT up reply actions
A better pitcher than Robertson makes the out too, then.
by WhatwouldJeterdo on Apr 5, 2011 11:16 PM EDT up reply actions
He didn't do his job, he didn't get the out.
by WhatwouldJeterdo on Apr 5, 2011 11:21 PM EDT up reply actions
He didn't even keep the count not full
so the runners weren’t going on the pitch.
by WhatwouldJeterdo on Apr 5, 2011 11:22 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm all for civil disagreements
and debates, but if you can’t concede even the point that very few right fielders (who aren’t on the Yankees) could have caught that ball, there’s no point in even continuing any debate or discussion about the topic.
So if the right fielder cannot make the play
Why doesn’t Cano or Tex take charge and attempt it? Obviously its the RF’s play first, but can’t one of them make that play?
Someone should have caught that ball.
It's called no mans land for a reason.
by WhatwouldJeterdo on Apr 5, 2011 11:22 PM EDT up reply actions
the BABIP Gods stuck again
CHARLES NOOOOOOOOOO!!!
by Brian5517209 on Apr 5, 2011 11:23 PM EDT up reply actions
You are having a ton of issues aren't you?
To the asshat that hit me: thanks for the broken arm. ...Fucker.
for reals!
i can’t spell!
CHARLES NOOOOOOOOOO!!!
by Brian5517209 on Apr 5, 2011 11:26 PM EDT up reply actions
because
with runners on base, they have other places to be on the field, particularly in the infield.
Surely you jest...
If they can play 5 man infields, we should be able to play 7 man outfields to maximize bodies who can catch that ball.
by WhatwouldJeterdo on Apr 5, 2011 11:27 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh, you're right.
His ass should have been out there too.
by WhatwouldJeterdo on Apr 5, 2011 11:29 PM EDT up reply actions
Should have put the bench out there too.
And the bullpen.
And all of AAA. Someone would have gotten that ball!
by WhatwouldJeterdo on Apr 5, 2011 11:30 PM EDT up reply actions
nope
only Ichiro. Dustin Pedroia might have found some extra strength in his little heart to dive for that ball
Screw all of that.
Get the fucking dog from Airbud.
Nope.
by MattF15 on Apr 5, 2011 11:33 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
The 40,000 in the stadium shoulda had a go at it
by CAyankeesfan on Apr 5, 2011 11:33 PM EDT up reply actions
I mean, what else where they doing?
Sitting on their ass, watching the game get blown, that’s what.
by WhatwouldJeterdo on Apr 5, 2011 11:34 PM EDT up reply actions
she's joking
and mocking Girardi’s “book” that says certain pitchers only pitch certain innings or only face certain batters.
Mo should be in for the out that will cause us to lose the game if the reliever screws it up. Period.
I saw a guy in the subway holding a pamphlet that said Jesus was coming on May 12, 2011. I don't think it will be that early, he would still qualify as a super two, so they need to wait until June to delay his arbitration clock.
Certainly not pitching in a 4-run lead game when a fully rested D-Rob could've easily started the inning.
"WHO WOULD LEAD?! THE CLOWN?!"
by I'mGivingYouARaise on Apr 5, 2011 11:03 PM EDT up reply actions
So one mistake and its the doghouse for you?
If you relegate every single player to shit duty when they don’t perform up to their expected level, you won’t have anybody left to do anything for you. Except Mo, who is of course infallible.
he's exhaggerating
I saw a guy in the subway holding a pamphlet that said Jesus was coming on May 12, 2011. I don't think it will be that early, he would still qualify as a super two, so they need to wait until June to delay his arbitration clock.
I was giving you the benefit of the doubt
I saw a guy in the subway holding a pamphlet that said Jesus was coming on May 12, 2011. I don't think it will be that early, he would still qualify as a super two, so they need to wait until June to delay his arbitration clock.
3-2 isn't half bad
obviously a really frustrating loss but we’ll get them tomorrow
CHARLES NOOOOOOOOOO!!!
Its made better
by the fact that the Sox are 0-4 thanks to the Rangers and Indians, but there’s still the pesky Os and Jays
it's made better
by the fact that the season is decided over 162 games, not the first 5. In any case, losses are tough, no matter whether they’re blowout losses or late inning implosions by the bullpen.
have to vent
Girardi only has the greatest reliever of all time sitting in his pen. The game is on the line in the 8th inning… but NOOOO!!!! he has to be saved for the magical 9th inning in which no other pitcher(s) can possibly get through.
these games mean just as much as in September.
by Travis G on Apr 5, 2011 10:46 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Precisely this.
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I'm glad someone else finds these games just as important
last year we lost the division by one game. It’s games like this that made that happen
Every Game is important
whoever doesn’t think that is a LOSER.
Rex Ryan... I salute you!
Those poor onion rings...
All it wanted was to be devoured! Instead, it gets a baseball for all its trouble.
To the asshat that hit me: thanks for the broken arm. ...Fucker.
like I said
if your dumb enough to buy a fifteen dollar snack then you deserve what happens to you
CHARLES NOOOOOOOOOO!!!
by Brian5517209 on Apr 5, 2011 10:48 PM EDT up reply actions
*you're
it happens again!
CHARLES NOOOOOOOOOO!!!
by Brian5517209 on Apr 5, 2011 10:49 PM EDT up reply actions
I still say Girardi is the third-most to blame for this
Soriano being first, and the offense second.
by long time listener on Apr 5, 2011 10:47 PM EDT reply actions
getting mad at Boone Logan is like getting mad at Randy Winn
he’s supposed to suck
CHARLES NOOOOOOOOOO!!!
by Brian5517209 on Apr 5, 2011 10:50 PM EDT up reply actions
no where, that ball was in a no-man’s land. Maybe Gardner makes that play, but I don’t think even he does.
I saw a guy in the subway holding a pamphlet that said Jesus was coming on May 12, 2011. I don't think it will be that early, he would still qualify as a super two, so they need to wait until June to delay his arbitration clock.
good points, all
Girardi may be further down the list than I thought. Logan didn’t have it, and Swisher should’ve let that ball drop in front of him and keep the tying run at third.
by long time listener on Apr 5, 2011 11:32 PM EDT up reply actions
I was never a Girardi supporter
I thought winning the World Series was a double edged sword. If you gave Joe Torre 2 more years he would’ve won the World Series in 09.
With that being said, he’s still a good manager, he just tends to do head scratching things a lot of the times.
Rex Ryan... I salute you!
lol @ winning the World Series a double-edged sword
CHARLES NOOOOOOOOOO!!!
by Brian5517209 on Apr 5, 2011 10:51 PM EDT up reply actions
lol
It was for me… because it gave Girardi more leeway.
Rex Ryan... I salute you!
If we had given Joe Torre 2 more years, Phil Hughes would have the same career path as Mark Prior and A-Rod would have batted 8th in the playoffs in 2009.
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And can you tell me why Andy Pettitte didn’t become Mark Prior?
And who’s Phil Hughes? He hasn’t done anything yet to even bring him up.
Rex Ryan... I salute you!
Prior's mechanics were flawless
Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows
Prior's mechanics were flawless cuz they had no flaws
he threw 150 pitches a game, to be fair.
Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows
he pitched
116 innings his rookie year
211 innings his 2nd year
118 innings his 3rd year
166 innings his 4th year
then he got injured
that 90 inning jump was the kiss of death
CHARLES NOOOOOOOOOO!!!
by Brian5517209 on Apr 5, 2011 11:25 PM EDT up reply actions
Analysis of his mechanics also revealed serious problems. I’m not going to argue he threw alot but his mechanics were not as good as everyone said it was .
http://www.chrisoleary.com/projects/baseball/pitching/rethinkingpitching/Essays/MarkPriorPitchingMechanics.html
problem with that is it wasn't just his pitching coach that said his
mechanics were perfect. It was everybody.
Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows
playoffs as well
and 150 pitch counts in the playoffs
Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows
you're not far off
Fangraphs shows that in 2003, he threw over 110 pitches in 23 games, over 100 pitches in 28 games, over 120 pitches in 10 games, and over 130 pitches in 4 games (including one game in the playoffs, throwing 133 pitches, his highest pitch total in the whole season).
Barnd
THANK YOU for the play of the game. That’s the only thing I’m happy about.
"We play today, we win today. Das it!"
by Chris McKeown on Apr 5, 2011 10:52 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
PSA is now the Angry Dome.
No better place to rage.
by WhatwouldJeterdo on Apr 5, 2011 10:54 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm optimistic about the series though
I thought we would take 3 out of 4 when the series started
I still think we do
CHARLES NOOOOOOOOOO!!!
by Brian5517209 on Apr 5, 2011 10:56 PM EDT up reply actions
I love you guys!
"WHO WOULD LEAD?! THE CLOWN?!"
by I'mGivingYouARaise on Apr 5, 2011 11:00 PM EDT up reply actions
Meh. Mariano could have given up a bloop single too.
DRobb did his job, a K or weak contact. Shit happens.
Strikeouts are boring- Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.
And maybe Chad Gaudin could have gotten a lineout, you still use your best pitcher in the biggest spots.
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wonderful post
Maybe the game is just bad Karma for the media ridiculing the Twins.
Sooo...
everytime the yankees lose we blame Joe Girardi.
Nets owner Mikhail Prokhorov admits clerical error, releases a guy's family from underground dungeon fortress that is shaped like a giant snake with an ox's head and perpetually burrows through the Earth's mantle so as to avoid prosecution from the world's governments and evade the single-celled, yet 4,000-foot-long Colossus worms that lie in wait until the day someone recites the Forgotten Verses, at which point they will devour us all.
http://www.sbnation.com/2011/3/29/2066542/the-animated-gifs-of-winter-numbers-15-through-11
Nope, just when he makes dumb decisions.
by WhatwouldJeterdo on Apr 5, 2011 11:09 PM EDT up reply actions
His bullpen management makes me want to punch kittens.
by WhatwouldJeterdo on Apr 5, 2011 11:10 PM EDT up reply actions
yeah
he might “save the bullpen arms” but he loses games. I can’t tell you the number of times I was exasperated last season by his bullpen choices when the games were within reach.
I almost guarantee that if Gaudin was still a Yankee, the final score would have been at least 9-4 and the game only 9 innings long.
Sometimes I forget the even the best bullpen in the majors can fail when an idiot's at the helm
I’m sorry, but bringing in Soriano instead of D-Rob to open the 8th when the Yankees have a 4 run lead was just idiotic. If D-Rob falters, then you can either go to So or Mo. So threw quite a bit of pitches last night as oppose to Joba or Mo or a well rested D-Rob.
"WHO WOULD LEAD?! THE CLOWN?!"
by I'mGivingYouARaise on Apr 5, 2011 11:10 PM EDT reply actions
Hat tip to CC Sabathia
for pitching an awesome, shut-out seven innings in his 2nd start.
And also, for showing the world, once again, why wins are a team stat and not a pitcher’s stat.
A right hook or a left hook? Surely he doesn’t mean that he was quickly removed from the game….
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Wally needs to write *I didn't catch this one
before he spews out his garbage. You’d think Soriano got the quick hook if he only went 2/3 of an inning.
Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows
Ugly Game
At starting point guard for your New Jersey Nets Deronnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn Willllllllllllllllllllliamssssssssssssssssssssssss
Lopez: "I'll stop being lazy and go after every rebound"
I missed the game but from the way it looks, it wasnt a good one at all
At starting point guard for your New Jersey Nets Deronnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn Willllllllllllllllllllliamssssssssssssssssssssssss
Lopez: "I'll stop being lazy and go after every rebound"
BryanHoch
Guess Rafael Soriano missed the Yankees’ media training session. Left stadium without speaking tonight.
Ledger_Yankees
If Logan, Robertson and Swisher can stand there and talk about how they blew that game, Soriano can too. Weak sauce.
It’s always possible there is a reasonable explanation for this, but if not, Soriano’s in trouble.
Writer for Pinstripe Alley, MLB Daily Dish
Follow me on twitter @nyybrandonc
Lets go Rangers!
R-U! R-U! R-U! R-U!
Thats not a good look
At starting point guard for your New Jersey Nets Deronnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn Willllllllllllllllllllliamssssssssssssssssssssssss
Lopez: "I'll stop being lazy and go after every rebound"
Ahhhh crap
Now this is going to be bigger than it should be
"WHO WOULD LEAD?! THE CLOWN?!"
by I'mGivingYouARaise on Apr 5, 2011 11:29 PM EDT up reply actions
Soriano is definitely a diva, but I’m more concerned as of right now with him not being able to find the strike zone.
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Maybe he left to look for it?
Writer for Pinstripe Alley, MLB Daily Dish
Follow me on twitter @nyybrandonc
Lets go Rangers!
R-U! R-U! R-U! R-U!
now he's not
a certain Knicks player did just that when he had a bad game. He was pissed that he had a bad game and didn’t want to speak with broken condoms like Wallace Matthews.
Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows
am i pissed yeah
but its one game and now we just need to pummel the twins for the next two days and hopefully do the same to the sox.
p.s
Soriano dont be an ass just accept that you fucked up and try again
What about Zoidberg?
It's one game, yeah.
But it’s one game we should have definitely won, and losing those hurts the most.
by WhatwouldJeterdo on Apr 5, 2011 11:56 PM EDT up reply actions
Mo in the 8th with 156 games to go...
And a 3-run lead?
Nahh. That “double” could just as easily been an out. It certainly wasn’t a rope. Just one of those nights – it landed in the right place. BTW, Mo came in and gave up a single in his inning – if you are going to play “let’s pretend” then you have to pretend the single he gave up could have come in the 8th as well… then, who knows?
It’s April 5th. Soriano had a bad night. Relax — and save it for this weekend.
I was all wrong.
"WHO WOULD LEAD?! THE CLOWN?!"
by I'mGivingYouARaise on Apr 6, 2011 2:02 AM EDT reply actions
Yeah - whole TEAM is bad when one pitcher can't throw strikes
and a bloop fly ball becomes a 3-run double.
Yup. This Rob Parker… a regular Ring Lardner.
CoG
Actually, Girardi forgot to manage. SoSo should have been removed against Mauer. Did CC eat his book?
I bet it's good to be playing again, huh?
I will answer my question myself.
Nothing, he put players in a good position to win the game and they did not. I’m ok with Mo not being used in the 8th in April. We have a 150+ more games and we need him for the long haul. Girardi didn’t do anything wrong, we just didn’t win. Stop looking to pass the blame.
by anothernightanotherfight on Apr 6, 2011 10:15 AM EDT up reply actions
These
1. CC had 102 pitches, is capable of more, and most importantly WAS CRUISING. He was pitching easy innings. Send him out to start the 8th, and the first baserunner, THEN bring in So.
2. After a couple guys reach against So, send pitching coach out to break his rhythm (which was way too fast, not normal for him) and calm him down. Meanwhile, be ready to yank So soon, if necessary… and PUT IN MO at that point. Toughest situation in the game = send in your best reliever.
2a. Once Joe brought in DRob, bring him back to pitch the 9th. Do NOT pitch Mo until DRob gets into trouble in the 9th, OR to pitch the 10th, whichever comes first. Ridiculous to waste DRob for one out.
2b. Given So had thrown a fair number of pitches the prior game, consider bringing DRob in to pitch the 8th in place of So. As Branta says, don’t want to be burning out your best relievers in April and all.
3. Mo in 9th in a tie game? Not very helpful. It’s not the best use of him. Use him for higher leverage situation, or let him rest. DRob could have pitched the 9th.
4. Logan for the entire 10th? When Logan is supposed to be a situational pitcher? Really??
Good Lord, if you’re going to follow the binder, follow it 100%, not only when you feel like it. Or chuck the darned binder and learn to manage given the situation as it’s actually unfolding in front of you.
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