Marathon Runners, the .400 Season, and the Limits of the Possible
by jscape2000 on Apr 19, 2011 11:00 AM EDT
in New York Yankees Analysis
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I'm not really a sports omnivore. I love baseball, I will occasionally flip on a basketball game (more often college than NBA), and if someone has a game or match on, I can develop a rooting interest in football, soccer or tennis for a few hours.
But every once in a while, something happens in sports that makes me stop and consider.
A 2:03 marathon is one of those things. The man averaged close to 13 mph for 2 hours on foot. His marathon speed tops my dash. Brandon might stand a better chance.
It makes me think of the marathon of a .400 season, and wonder again whether or not the feat is achievable by modern man.
When Ted Williams hit .400 for the Boston Red Sox, African Americans weren't allowed to play Major League Baseball. No player had yet considered crossing the Pacific to play, and Williams took most of his ABs against the same pitcher throughout the game. But, Williams didn't have video to pour over, didn't have the dynamically tapered modern bat, and didn't have fitness regiments (or enhancements).
At times I've thought that a .400 season would be unachievable, but I wonder. I think of how many walks Barry Bonds drew while serving as the only hitter in the Giants' offense. A .400 season would have to happen to a patient hitter with great contact skills, a slugger playing on a contender. The kind of player who teams will pitch around and who can wait for his pitch.
Apparently, the elite marathoners train at high altitudes to condition their muscles for the grueling run. It makes me wonder what the next (legal) innovation will be to help the hitters.
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Maybe not a true slugger
I would take glimpses of what we have seen with Brett if he (or someone with comparable speed) could be a better contact hitter. This would be an ideal leadoff man. High on base percentage, ability to steal and the speed to avoid many double plays. I think the current problem is pro hitting coaches are no longer teaching situational hitting since the stigma of a K is gone.
The next .400 hitter will come from a leadoff batter on a small-ball team, I am waiting to see it. My guess is not in the AL East.
That boy Barndon sure can run
They only thing I can think of is the possibility of biomedical chips being implanted into pro-athletes for measuring body stress levels and early detection of injuries. I think we’re still far off from the innovation. Maybe someone else could chime in about this.
+1 on Baseball being your one true love
I feel like people are cheating on it when they’re really into another sport.
by MichaelGGBGrabow on Apr 19, 2011 11:46 AM EDT reply actions
Basebal is actually my mistress
I am married to football, but she might leave me for a few months anyway. Something about a money situation.
NBA is just some whore I see every now and again.
I dispense B.S. and facts. It is up to you to figure out which is which.
Is this the way it works?
NFL = cuddling/spooning
MLB = pillow-talk
NBA = “Don’t call me. I’ll call you.”
by Scooby Snacks on Apr 19, 2011 1:24 PM EDT up reply actions
I meet up with the NBA in dirty bathroom stalls
or a quick “meeting” in some damp dark alleyway.
I’m not proud, but something about it keeps me coming back.
I dispense B.S. and facts. It is up to you to figure out which is which.
Yeah...like a marriage.
I dispense B.S. and facts. It is up to you to figure out which is which.
Aussie Rules Football is starting to tantalize me like a Japanese woman with sexy hair
"WHO WOULD LEAD?! THE CLOWN?!"
by I'mGivingYouARaise on Apr 19, 2011 4:20 PM EDT up reply actions
Of the inflatable variety or….? Just needed a barometer.
by Scooby Snacks on Apr 19, 2011 4:48 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm marrying one of those!
Not an Aussie Rules Footballer…a Japanese woman with sexy hair.
I dispense B.S. and facts. It is up to you to figure out which is which.
I disagree. When people choose other sports OVER baseball it is cheating, but not when they watch sports while baseball is away. Anyway, I’m married to baseball and hockey. You can question on whether or not that’s true love, but I know it is and that’s what matters.
Follow me on twitter @nyybrandonc
"Blame is just a lazy person's way of making sense of chaos."
"No matter what I talk about, I always get back to baseball."
ted williams didnt have tape to fawn over
but neither did the pitchers. they didnt know where to go to get an out. i honestly dont know who is helped for by scouting reports. its going to be very tough. but i think someone like ichiro could do it. i dont think its impossible, just improbably and very difficult.
עם ישראל חי
Ichiro doesn't walk enough
Lifetime BA 330, lifetime OBP 375.
A-Rod is also not a likely target; lifetime BA .303 (Williams was .344). Alex’s BAPIP is unlikely to swing enough to make it happen.
Pujols would have been a good candidate (BA 330, OBP 424), but his best years are behind him. Williams was 22 (!) when he hit 400.
I think you answered your own question: In the era of specialized relievers and 5 IP starts, starters can throw harder and specialists tailored to get you out can come in to replace them. Also, there are more games, which means a larger sample and less deviation around your “true” talent (it’s easier to hit 400 over 10 games than 1000 not because the season is long, but because streaks will even out over 1000 games).
In the Live Ball era, 400 was reached only 9 times, and almost all of those were in the 1920s. What Williams did was a statistical fluke before we figured out relief pitching, and isn’t likely to be repeated.
by PortlandYankee on Apr 19, 2011 12:30 PM EDT up reply actions
I won't say that no one will ever hit .400 again but it is highly doubtful.
The only players who have gotten close since 1980 are George Brett & Tony Gwynn. Both had well below 500 ABs for the season so perhaps a well-timed injury might make it happen.
For the record, Rod Carew in 1977 batting .388 on 616 Abs is just sick and Babe Ruth in 1923 batting .393 with almost half his hits being for extra bases is just insane especially since he did that while getting walked 170 times.
Baseball and the NY Yankees
are the only sport (and sport related team) I follow religiously. I initially joined XM Radio for the exclusive MLB Radio (and all their play-by-play stations of every game every day).
I’m a bit sad now that I have Sirius in my new car, because even with the “Best of XM” package, it doesn’t include the MLB play-by-play channels.
After baseball, the next sport I’d rather watch is tennis. Football is more of a social sport for me to watch (friends invite me over for a Giants/whatever team rivalry) or the SuperBowl.
I’ve played soccer and basketball as a youth, but I’ve never developed the interest to actually sit and watch the game being played the way I do when I watch baseball or tennis.
Regarding the .400 record, I think it’s possible, though not likely. Improbable but not impossible. It’ll be interesting to see if the Nolan Ryan approach to pitching spreads throughout the majors (at least 7 innings from starters), which could lead to the possibility of facing the same pitchers for longer in a game.
What would a batter’s season BABIP have to be for them to finish a season with a .400 BA?
When Ted Williams hit .400, nobody thought it would never happen again.
DiMaggio’s 56 game hit streak the same year was viewed as a much greater accomplishment.
As much as everyone moans about how pitching is watered down in this era (the argument is that with 30 teams, half the pitchers today would have been in the minors 50 years ago), that’s not so.
First of all, the international players and the black players mean that the 30 teams have a much bigger pool of talent to draw from.
Second, although radar did not exist in 1946 (except on military installations), it is genreally agreed that pitchers throw harder now.
Third, although the prevalence of closers and 8th inning set-up men is scorned, they exist because they are harder to hit than tiring starters or the second-rate arms they replaced.
For these reasons, plus the added burden of unrelenting media coverage and the resulting pressure, I don’t see .400 being reached.
by designatedquitter on Apr 19, 2011 3:38 PM EDT reply actions
Why, yes, Alex. I do know you lead the league in batting average.
To the asshat that hit me: thanks for the broken arm. ...Fucker.
Actually, as of last night, Sam Fuld leads the league in batting average. Izturis is 2nd and A-Rod is 3rd.
And if I saw only that and said “hey, he has a good batting average, he’s AWESOME”, I’d expect someone BRILLIANT to tell me I was being too short sighted by only using BA to determine such things.
It's like being a huge fan of winning, which we do, relentlessly.
by WhatwouldJeterdo on Apr 19, 2011 4:31 PM EDT up reply actions
They're calling Sam Fuld "Mini-Babe."
At least that’s what I heard on MLBN.
To the asshat that hit me: thanks for the broken arm. ...Fucker.
He's obviously way better than A-Rod because his batting average is higher.
Maybe we could trade for him.
It's like being a huge fan of winning, which we do, relentlessly.
by WhatwouldJeterdo on Apr 19, 2011 4:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Can he play 3rd?
We can throw in a beach ball to it’s a fair trade.
To the asshat that hit me: thanks for the broken arm. ...Fucker.
What the hell?
Great grammar, noonoo…
We can throw in a beach ball so it’s a fair trade. Duh..
To the asshat that hit me: thanks for the broken arm. ...Fucker.
Maicer or Cesar?
It's like being a huge fan of winning, which we do, relentlessly.
by WhatwouldJeterdo on Apr 19, 2011 4:43 PM EDT up reply actions
This is the Maicer version of Izturis.
It's like being a huge fan of winning, which we do, relentlessly.
by WhatwouldJeterdo on Apr 19, 2011 4:44 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh okay
I just looked up Cesar last year
.277 OBP, 46 wRC+, -0.3 WAR even with a positive fielder rating, LOL
COMB YO BEARD!
That is quite poor.
It's like being a huge fan of winning, which we do, relentlessly.
by WhatwouldJeterdo on Apr 19, 2011 4:48 PM EDT up reply actions
Yet he managed an OBP .043 higher than Jeter's last season, which counts for more than 2.5 weeks.
It's like being a huge fan of winning, which we do, relentlessly.
by WhatwouldJeterdo on Apr 19, 2011 4:55 PM EDT up reply actions
In the minds of insane Jeter fanboys, there was no baseball in 2010, so your point is invalid.
Baseball Statistics and Acronyms Explained
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It is invalid. What the hell does Gardner have to do with Jeter when we were talking about Izturis? Odd.
I bet it's good to be playing again, huh?
Pretty sure you were the one that brought Garnder into all of this...
Just your normal, everyday Yankees, Aston Villa, Tar Heels, Australian cricket fan
I know
But Jeter? Like I said, what does he have to do with the fact that I compared one player’s OBP to Gardner’s?
They just try to look small, I guess. Because it works.
I bet it's good to be playing again, huh?
If you can bring up a random person based on nothing to criticize them, why can't we?
Besides, that was Cesar’s entire 2010, not his 2011, so comparing him to Gardner’s 2.5 weeks of 2011 was pretty pointless anyway.
It's like being a huge fan of winning, which we do, relentlessly.
by WhatwouldJeterdo on Apr 19, 2011 5:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Still pretty fucking irrelevant to Izturis...
Just your normal, everyday Yankees, Aston Villa, Tar Heels, Australian cricket fan
I thought you never replied to me, Bryce. What happened?
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Your numbers from the Olympics?
Baseball Statistics and Acronyms Explained
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Oh. At least you’ve been taking your walks.
Baseball Statistics and Acronyms Explained
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Just wondering why someone would bring up “BATTING AVERAGE IS AWESOME” and “I HATE BRETT GARDNER” for no apparent reason other than being an annoying fool.
Baseball Statistics and Acronyms Explained
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If you two don't stop your endless fighting
I will turn this car around and NOBODY WILL GET TO GO TO DISNEYLAND!!!!
I dispense B.S. and facts. It is up to you to figure out which is which.
Is it bad that I know the whole episode
from that one clip?
“Knoxville! Knoxville!”
I dispense B.S. and facts. It is up to you to figure out which is which.
The boy band episode?
Yvan eht nioj?
I dispense B.S. and facts. It is up to you to figure out which is which.
No, it’s from the same episode you were talking about. The World’s Fair they were going to turns out to be a wig shop.
by Jedi Master A-Rod on Apr 19, 2011 5:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Ah crap, of course
And the tower collapses, right?
I haven’t seen that episode in probably 8 years.
I dispense B.S. and facts. It is up to you to figure out which is which.
That's right.
Were those four the ones in the boy band though? Or was it Ralphie instead of Martin?
I dispense B.S. and facts. It is up to you to figure out which is which.
Please show me this
“Batting average is awesome”? I have never sad that. “I hate Brett Gardner”, never said that either. Lying is not cool. So now you’re a liar, too?
I bet it's good to be playing again, huh?
See above comment.
You no longer get to go to Cape Canaveral.
I dispense B.S. and facts. It is up to you to figure out which is which.
That’s not important, though, remember? Even though more hits translate to more runs. Still, as the brilliant will reiterate till they’re blue in the face, "teh battingz average".
Beats a .213 OBP.
Enough, Bryce.
Baseball Statistics and Acronyms Explained
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No, you just managed to take yet another unprovoked shot at people.
That’s not important, though, remember? Even though more hits translate to more runs. Still, as the brilliant will reiterate till they’re blue in the face, "teh battingz average".
I suppose Duggan started it though.
It's like being a huge fan of winning, which we do, relentlessly.
by WhatwouldJeterdo on Apr 19, 2011 5:13 PM EDT up reply actions
Uh, no, it is a shot at people.
I’ve read enough of your shots at people to detect your not subtle snark.
It's like being a huge fan of winning, which we do, relentlessly.
by WhatwouldJeterdo on Apr 19, 2011 5:15 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, everyone else always starts it with you...
Especially here, where no one had said anything at all.
It's like being a huge fan of winning, which we do, relentlessly.
by WhatwouldJeterdo on Apr 19, 2011 5:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Ah, I don’t think it merited all this reaction. Dude just has a problem with me. Funny.
I bet it's good to be playing again, huh?
Or maybe this is the very thing
I talked about LAST TIME this happened. You take shots at people for little to no reason and when they respond in kind, they are obsessed with you, think they are always right, think their opinion is “Gods”, which I still haven’t quite understood the point of.
It's like being a huge fan of winning, which we do, relentlessly.
by WhatwouldJeterdo on Apr 19, 2011 5:22 PM EDT up reply actions
No specific shot
was taken. That’s why this is so hilarious to me. It’s taken personally. Why? He can dish out whatever he wants at me, I don’t care.
I bet it's good to be playing again, huh?
It's not PERSONAL.
It’s ANNOYING.
It's like being a huge fan of winning, which we do, relentlessly.
by WhatwouldJeterdo on Apr 19, 2011 5:26 PM EDT up reply actions
I like to pretend that people are hung up on me so that I can feel important. Wait….
Baseball Statistics and Acronyms Explained
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I'm hung up on everyone I think has a bad case of dumb.
Secretly I think they are geniuses!
It's like being a huge fan of winning, which we do, relentlessly.
by WhatwouldJeterdo on Apr 19, 2011 5:16 PM EDT up reply actions
You really sad
I don’t get it. But I really am flattered with your obsession to try get to me.
I bet it's good to be playing again, huh?
There is only the here and now, where it is imperative that starters be replaced based on the merits of 12 AB’s
by Jedi Master A-Rod on Apr 19, 2011 5:00 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m noy talking about last season. What’s that got to do with Jeter though?
I bet it's good to be playing again, huh?
What the hell did Gardner have to do with it?
Nothing.
It's like being a huge fan of winning, which we do, relentlessly.
by WhatwouldJeterdo on Apr 19, 2011 5:00 PM EDT up reply actions
Whole season vs not quite 3 weeks.
If he’s still got a .213 OBP in October, you might have some kind of point.
It's like being a huge fan of winning, which we do, relentlessly.
by WhatwouldJeterdo on Apr 19, 2011 5:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Saying it NOW is completely irrelevant.
Your dislike of Gardner has been noted plenty and really had nothing to do with this conversation.
It's like being a huge fan of winning, which we do, relentlessly.
by WhatwouldJeterdo on Apr 19, 2011 5:05 PM EDT up reply actions
You two
really do crack me up. All I wrote was it beats a .213. I love this.
I bet it's good to be playing again, huh?
And your ability to not understand how that is a pointless comment cracks me up.
For the millionth time, WE GET IT. You don’t need to bring it up in conversations that have absolutely nothing to do with Brett Gardner or what he’s doing in the game of baseball.
It's like being a huge fan of winning, which we do, relentlessly.
by WhatwouldJeterdo on Apr 19, 2011 5:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Because that was a completely random number
by Jedi Master A-Rod on Apr 19, 2011 5:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Jeter had nothing to do with this, Gardner did.
Or something…
It's like being a huge fan of winning, which we do, relentlessly.
by WhatwouldJeterdo on Apr 19, 2011 5:10 PM EDT up reply actions
It’s always a great time to bring up the usefulness of batting average and a Brett Gardner voodoo doll, but dammit don’t you say one word about Prince Jeter.
Baseball Statistics and Acronyms Explained
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If you would actually read my posts
You’d see I’ve been critical of Jeter, too. Just not relentlessly like you. Oh, this hangup with me is incredible. I truly love this!
I bet it's good to be playing again, huh?
Again, what happened to not replying to me? You were not missed.
Baseball Statistics and Acronyms Explained
Follow me on the tweetbox - @LordDuggan12
Missed? I’m lost. I was gone for a couple of days due to a tornado, is that what you mean? Other than that, am I not supposed to respond to you?
Oh, and you’re a mod..Time to grow up.
I bet it's good to be playing again, huh?
Yes, that's TOTALLY what he meant.
It's like being a huge fan of winning, which we do, relentlessly.
by WhatwouldJeterdo on Apr 19, 2011 5:19 PM EDT up reply actions
And pay attention, look ’em up, he has the hang up and as I said, always has to start the argument. I just have fun with it.
Wrong again, Bryce.
Baseball Statistics and Acronyms Explained
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Because you do the exact opposite of what you say, and as usual, have no clue what you’re talking about and then try to make it look like everyone else is out to get you when people rightfully call you out on posting total garbage.
Baseball Statistics and Acronyms Explained
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by Lord Duggan on Apr 19, 2011 5:27 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
Can we put Duggan and david d in seperate timeouts?
Their back and forth is so unchanging that I could just write one myself.
Duggan: The stats say batting order doesn’t matter!
david d: But people who watch and play baseball can clearly see it does!
Duggan: U R a stoopid head!
david d: No U R!
etc.
I dispense B.S. and facts. It is up to you to figure out which is which.
by GMan83201 on Apr 19, 2011 5:20 PM EDT reply actions 3 recs
I suppose I should add:
WWJD: (snarky side comment)
GMan: (incredibly insightful and intelligent comment)
I dispense B.S. and facts. It is up to you to figure out which is which.
I hand it out where it's deserved.
Not gonna apologize for it. It’s the same crap every single time and I’ve reached the end of my patience with the continuous pot shots at people who don’t agree and then shifting blame.
It's like being a huge fan of winning, which we do, relentlessly.
by WhatwouldJeterdo on Apr 19, 2011 5:25 PM EDT up reply actions
It wasn’t a pot shot! Isn’t it okay to think that batting average does have some meaning in baseball? Good Lord. That’s my opinion. No, it’s not the end all be all, I know that, but I don’t totally disregard it like some of you do.
I bet it's good to be playing again, huh?
I don't disregard it, but I'm not going to use that as the determiner of all things like some people do.
I, however, do not go into a thread where no one had been saying anything badly about people who think otherwise and say “yeah, well those REALLY TRULY GENIUS people who think batting average is WONDERFUL…” because that’s annoying and pointless. If you disagree, disagree. You don’t have to snarikly insult people without reason to get that friggin point across. Then, when people respond to your comments in a similar fashion, they are SOOO obsessed with you. Give it a friggin rest.
It's like being a huge fan of winning, which we do, relentlessly.
by WhatwouldJeterdo on Apr 19, 2011 5:31 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh don't get me wrong
I’m not criticizing. I’m a frequenter of snarky side comments myself. It makes me feel clever if I can be really snarky.
I dispense B.S. and facts. It is up to you to figure out which is which.
And that’s fine. But some here really, really can’t handle it.
I bet it's good to be playing again, huh?
sigh
I dispense B.S. and facts. It is up to you to figure out which is which.
I tried last time, it's not gonna work.
It's like being a huge fan of winning, which we do, relentlessly.
by WhatwouldJeterdo on Apr 19, 2011 5:33 PM EDT up reply actions
One more thing
No one else here reacts that way. Many here feel as he does, yet…
I bet it's good to be playing again, huh?
No one else is the continual target of 94% of your insults either...
Which is why this is so annoying. It’s the same thing EVERY. SINGLE. TIME. You think he’s always right, he thinks you’re wrong, you don’t agree with the stats like he does, insults go here. If it’s going to be this EVERY SINGLE TIME, why not just NOT respond at all? Save us the headache.
It's like being a huge fan of winning, which we do, relentlessly.
by WhatwouldJeterdo on Apr 19, 2011 5:40 PM EDT up reply actions
Make too much sense
It would never work.
I dispense B.S. and facts. It is up to you to figure out which is which.
Sigh
As I said, there was no “target”. Do you think I was targeting someone specifically with that comment? Really? Well, you’re wrong. Many feel that way and many have debated me about it without getting personal about it.
I bet it's good to be playing again, huh?
Insulting a group is just as annoying as insulting a specific person when it's pointless.
Just because you disagree with the thing those people believe doesn’t mean you have to constantly say something about them and their opinion unprovoked.
It's like being a huge fan of winning, which we do, relentlessly.
by WhatwouldJeterdo on Apr 19, 2011 6:30 PM EDT up reply actions
Okay, WWJD. But from this point forward, I will point out those comments you call snarky.
I bet it's good to be playing again, huh?
What are you even talking about?
It's like being a huge fan of winning, which we do, relentlessly.
by WhatwouldJeterdo on Apr 19, 2011 6:35 PM EDT up reply actions
I highly doubt that there is just "one more" thing.
I dispense B.S. and facts. It is up to you to figure out which is which.
baseball bat
I dispense B.S. and facts. It is up to you to figure out which is which.
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