New York Yankees News and Notes: 2/12/2011
by 3460kuri on Feb 12, 2011 7:00 AM EST
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PrintI was surprised to see so little support among Yankees fans at the idea of trading for Francisco Liriano. It's About The Money was on this bandwagon (or never on it, I guess), and I just don't understand why:
(T)rading (Manny) Banuelos for Liriano would carry the opportunity cost of not being able to use (him) in another trade later.
Really? Let's say the Twins did propose a straight Banuelos for Liriano trade. If Brian Cashman says no, who exactly is he holding out for? Tim Lincecum? Felix Hernandez? Old Hoss Radbourn's reincarnation?
Don't get me wrong. I LOVE Banuelos. But he is what he is - a 19 year old pitcher with 10 innings above A ball. The Yankees have a serious need for starting pitching in both 2011 and 2012, and even if everything breaks right for Man-Ban, he won't reach the majors until late 2012 at the earliest, with severe pitch count/inning limit issues for at least the first season or two. He may be CC's heir by 2014, but that's a long time away.
Liriano, on the other hand, is much more of a sure thing. He's not in the class of Cliff Lee or Zach Greinke, not yet, but he's closer than you think. In fact, if everything breaks right for Man-Ban, his career will probably wind up looking like Liriano's does at this point. It's like trading Austin Jackson for Curtis Granderson; when money's no object, and you have the chance to trade a prospect for a player of the same position with the same profile and ceiling, you do it without having to think much.
- It looks like both Nick Swisher and Robinson Cano may be joining the ranks of ex-Yankees in a few years. That's what happens when you hire Scott Boras as your agent. I suspect his asking price will be higher than what the front office is willing to pay for a 30 year old Cano and 32 year old Swisher, especially when the Yankees will have to older, more expensive Boras clients on their roster.
- The Yankee U compares some prospect rankings from various sources. After Montero and Banuelos, it's interesting to see how little agreement there is.
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I would do that trade
But there is risk of injury – no question.
Still, FL is a proven starter and Yankes need one or two.
I might pitch a fit but I won't put on my brakes. Stand in the Fire.
by MSP Giant on Feb 12, 2011 7:44 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
Nope
He’s had too many injuries.
Maybe Cashman is holding out for…
Manny Banuelos.
There's always next year
The value of the Killer Bees
Many here are just in love with them. They are convinced they as a group are much better than the big 3 (IPK, Hughes, Joba)! They don’t realize we’ll be lucky if they’re as good.
Two of these guys are high risk, high ceiling. They will not both make it. Maybe neither will. Man Ban is way off, he’ll take a long time to get to the majors.
But you can’t talk to people in love. They won’t believe because they don’t want to.
"I’m never really surprised, but I am thrilled sometimes." Joe G. 2010
by Cbeck3 on Feb 12, 2011 8:03 AM EST via mobile reply actions
I’m not big on Brackman, I think he’ll amount to nothing more than a middle reliever. Betances has potential, but not in love. Banuelos is very young and very good and a lefty, and good ones are hard to come by. I do think he’s the one to hold onto for at least another 2 years to see how he progresses.
There's always next year
The same could be said about your feelings that Mitre is not garbage.
People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring.
by WhatwouldJeterdo on Feb 12, 2011 12:50 PM EST up reply actions
lies
ManBan will win the ROY, Cy Young and MVP in 2012 and pitch to a 0.00 ERA. okay seriously i feel the same way. The fact is the chances of any of those 3 becoming as good as a say Greinke or Liarno is basically the same chance of a person hitting jackpot on a slot machine…The odds are none of them will even come close.
But you can’t talk to people in love. They won’t believe because they don’t want to.
Tell that to your poster of Sergio Mitre.
Mitre does not deserve the hatred
He struggled recovering from Tommy John. His numbers were pretty good last year. I wish we didn’t need him. I am pushing him forwars to emphasise how little reason Nova has given us to like him. He has less than Joba’s stuff and less than IPK’s command. And IPK’s command never was up to it’s billing. Still I wish we had IPK and Ohlandorf, both of whom we discarded. I wouldn’t be as worried about the rotation.
Even with this rotation the offense and defense will make us a playoff contender. If someone steps up we’ll be a force to recon with.
"I’m never really surprised, but I am thrilled sometimes." Joe G. 2010
Have you ever like….watched Mitre pitch? There is a reason that the Yankees have been able to sign him for 1 year deals worth less than $1MM each of the last two years.
In a starting pitching starved league where scrap heap starters like Kevin Millwood are in demand and Joe Blanton makes $8.5MM a year, how much interest have you heard in Sergio?
There is a reason that no one is interested in him and the Yankees can bring him back for peanuts. There’s also a reason why they entrusted him with precisely 0.1 high leverage innings last year (he blew the game in that appearance, by the way). These same teams would be willing to trade away assets to get ManBan or Betances. And why do you think that is?
Why do you think that teams with film and every statistic don’t bother with Sergio but do see the value in a strong farm system? Because those young guys have what Sergio does not: Talent.
And for the love of god, he had TJS in July of 08, if he hasn’t recovered by now, he never will.
Check your facts man
The Yanks have him under control. This contract avoided arbitration. (per Cot’s)
"I’m never really surprised, but I am thrilled sometimes." Joe G. 2010
Thanks for actually addressing the points instead of just picking out a minute detail. I guess that’s what you have to do when you’ve got no idea what you’re talking about.
by Lord Duggan on Feb 12, 2011 10:33 PM EST up reply actions
It’s also entirely irrelevant to the point that I was making as he has already hit free agency.
by Lord Duggan on Feb 12, 2011 10:36 PM EST up reply actions
Their peripherals last year were almost the same, but the difference is that it was Nova’s first taste of the majors, while Mitre has been up and down for seven years. Most projection systems are based on your previous year stats, but Nova is much more likely to improve than Mitre. That’s why he is a better choice for a rotation spot.
February 14th, pitchers, catchers, and Messiahs report to Spring Training.
Read your post
You lead with the salary. You cite it as proof for your position. You are wrong a out it. When Mitre was a FA he was injured and released. He was under control, arb eligable. Only the Yanks got to bid.
Nova is young and has speed and movement. Like AJ he will have to control the stuff to be effective. Mitre has to get people out with less power. Do I have to give you the Mussina Glavine etc lesson than pitching is about getting people out?
The Yanks have kept this guy. I cite them as evidence I’m right. This is just my opinion and yours. Calm down and watch them pitch
Don’t argue by insulting. It does not make you look smart.
"I’m never really surprised, but I am thrilled sometimes." Joe G. 2010
by Cbeck3 on Feb 13, 2011 8:53 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Question here
Actually a couple. Do you honestly believe that there would be a bidding war, or that ANYBODY would be bidding for Sergio Mitre should he have hit free agency? Probably not, because he doesn’t have great stuff, great velocity or great location and he’s NOT GOOD!
And also, Mitre is nowhere near the pitcher that Mussina and Glavine were. Those are HOF level pitchers who a) had brilliant location of multiple pitches and b) still had better stuff than Sergio Mitre. Mussina and Glavine got people out because they were good. Mitre isn’t good. Thats why, like Duggan said he pitched barely any big innings last year, and when he did he blew it. I personally got to see him throw away any chance of a Yankee comeback during Game 4 of the ALCS last year in a matter of 2 minutes.
They’ve kept Mitre as insurance in case they need him because they know that they can get him for nothing. They didn’t keep him because they actually believe he’s going to have a big hand in helping the Yankees contend. If he’s in the majors this year, it’s in the bullpen as a mop up role. And thats as high as he should be.
"I'll do whatever it takes to win games, whether it's sitting on a bench waving a towel, handing a cup of water to a teammate, or hitting the game-winning shot."- Kobe Bryant
Thanks for the memories Andy
by nyyrocks29 on Feb 13, 2011 11:51 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
But being sarcastic in your posts makes you look smart?
Not hardly.
Mitre is not good. He has never been good and will never be good. The love affair you have with him is extremely puzzling to everyone but you. He doesn’t deserve hatred for pitching out of the mop up position, as cited by his 0.1 high leverage innings last year, but if he starts and fails dismally as he did last year, he will get the hatred that comes along with sucking and pitching batting practice to teams like the Royals. Just because the Yankees kept him to pitch in games when they are up or down 8 does not mean he is good. Quite the opposite, actually. He’s cheap and doesn’t matter in the overall picture.
People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring.
by WhatwouldJeterdo on Feb 13, 2011 1:45 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Make the trade
I think it was Bill Veeck who said not to count on next year, because someone may get hurt, the young players you are counting on may not develop, etc. Also, after the next couple of years, Posada and Rivera will be gone and Jeter and A-Rod will be that much older. The Yankees may have to scramble to field a team that has as much talent as the one they have now.
Yes, Man-Ban is young and talented and a lefty, but a lot of things can go wrong between now and 2014, with both him and the team. If the Yankees think that one starter like Liriano will give them a real shot at the World Series this year, I think they have to make the trade.
Mickey C
Your point
about an aging team validates my feeling of keeping the young lefty. If a team is only willing to make the trade if he’s included, well, that says it all to me. We can trade other pieces to get another pitcher.
There's always next year
+1
I’ve been following Liriano since he was a Giants’ prospect. To me, he’s one of the best and most underrated pitchers out there. His changeup is filthy. Being a lefty in our stadium makes him a perfect fit.
The only thing stopping me from screaming for Liriano is not knowing what the Twins are asking for. My hope is that with his injury history it won’t be too steep. I’m pretty sure they’ll want more than just Banuelos.
by Ghost_of_Brien_Taylor on Feb 12, 2011 8:53 AM EST up reply actions
Liriano is a great pitcher
its just the overall thing is those injuries and the fact that Minny is basically a rival and not going to just hand him over even for an very good package of players.
Now if its the equivalent of Hughes, Melky and I’m sure there was another, do it.
I thin the last time we had 3 good SP prospects and the idea was only one was on the table, so that’s similar to now with the Killer Bs.
I just wouldn’t go all out cuz of the injury, its kind of scary.
Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows
also given the year he had last year
I’d say Liriano is in a class above Grienke.
Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows
They're close.
Liriano is really nasty when he’s on. The injuries is a scary risk, but I think it’s worth it. He’s also rather cheap.
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I'M GOING H.A.M.
I'd go after Liriano myself.
I’d rather trade maybe two slightly lower-rated prospects and keep Banuelos around to pitch in NY eventually, but I wouldn’t be upset with a straight Banuelos-Liriano trade. The injury risk vs. untested prospect tradeoff seems pretty balanced to me.
Usqueadbaugham! Anam muck an dhoul ! Did ye drink me doornail?
After last year, maybe.
Grienke has been consistently better (and less hurt) over his career, even if you discard his outlandish 2009 season.
Usqueadbaugham! Anam muck an dhoul ! Did ye drink me doornail?
also keep Banuelos
say, Brackman, Stoneburner, Romine (they can move Mauer to 3rd in a year or 2 and prolong his career) and I dunno, maybe Heathcott.
Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows
I'd be all for trading for Liriano...
I just have a hard time believing he’s available. He’s a 27 year old lefty with great stuff who can still get better. Right now he’s at worst a very solid no. 2. He makes only 4.3 mil in 2011 and he’s under team control for 2012 as well. The Twins are in the business of winning, not rebuilding, and if they do win the central again, there’s a great chance that they’ll see the Yankees in the playoffs, as per usual. Trading Liriano to the Yankees wouldn’t make any sense for them.
by Let's Talk About Tex Baby on Feb 12, 2011 9:56 AM EST reply actions
He is not available
The Twins want Banuelos as a starting point. Their first response to Cashman would be Montero and Banuelos plus. They don’t really need Montero. They would probably settle for Banuelos plus some major league ready talent (Joba, Nova, Nunez etc…) or near major leaguers and some lower level prospects.
You are talking about a 5 or 6 player trade with serious upside for MInnesota.
Banuelos, two players that are near major league contributors who potentially make an impact in 2011 and could justify dealing the ace, and one or two prospects with upside.
Banuelos, Joba, Nunez
or
Banuelos, Betances Nunez, prospect
or
Banuelos, Brackman, Nunez, two prospects
I doubt this trade will ever get done unless the Yankees give up some great prospects.
Twins want a major league ready pitcher and infielder as well as one of Montero or Banuelos
Why do you think Cano will be an “ex-Yankee” if he continues to produce like this until his contract is up. We aren’t the Tampa Bay Rays.
Section 203 Row 15 Seat 1
Yep
If he played on the Rays, we’d be hearing how the Yankees would sign him in the offseason. It’s not like you have much competition, the only other team that can afford him is quite happy with their second baseman.
by Marisa Ingemi on Feb 12, 2011 10:31 AM EST up reply actions
Looking through rose-colored glasses Marissa?
Mini Me…er Pedroia is a big question mark for the BoSox. He may be 5 feet shorter than Yao Ming, but DP is coming off similar foot surgery (and anyone that has a rudimentary knowledge of the NBA knows the issues that have accompanied Yao’s rehab(s)). If he even is close to Cano’s numbers (or games played) this year I’ll eat my hat. It is not 2008 anymore, the days of comparing Cano and Pedro as equals is over!
One S, first off
second off, why would the Red Sox sign Cano when they have a very good second baseman? Even if he is not as good, which would surprise me, he would still be a very good player.
by Marisa Ingemi on Feb 12, 2011 12:07 PM EST up reply actions
Trade for Old Hoss Radbourn
If not anything else, the Yankees could count on him to eat innings.
(I’m about 2/3 the way through “Fifty-nine in ’84,” and I highly recommend it to anyone with an interest in the history of the game. I just read about what should be considered the first baseball-related Boston Massacre, where Providence rolled into Boston for a four game series one game up, and left five games up. Radbourn pitched all thirty-eight innings- the first game went eleven- of the series for the Grays, giving up zero earned runs.)
Usqueadbaugham! Anam muck an dhoul ! Did ye drink me doornail?
Swisher's agent is not Boras
Ken Rosenthal
Nick Swisher indeed has changed agents, but hired Dan Lozano, not Scott Boras.
by Monotonousblob on Feb 12, 2011 11:19 AM EST reply actions
I disagree
I would not trade Banuelos for Liriano. Liriano has been hurt far to often during his career for me personally to be willing to trade away a talent like Banuelos for him. The Yankees don’t often have 3 great starting pitchers in their system all at once (although I’m not too high on Brackman). To give the best one away for a guy who isn’t a sure thing as far as staying healthy goes would make me be a little hesitant.
As far as Cano, I don’t see the Yankees letting him go regardless of his asking price. There aren’t many great young 2B in the game, and the Yankees are fortunate to have one of the best. He’d be incredibly difficult to replace, and I think they’d get a deal done.
"I'll do whatever it takes to win games, whether it's sitting on a bench waving a towel, handing a cup of water to a teammate, or hitting the game-winning shot."- Kobe Bryant
Thanks for the memories Andy
I'll buy this.
Esp. if ManBan can come back after 4 years.. and he proves that he’s quality at that time
w/o going through the growing pains now (and next couple of years)
…and picking up Liriano now…
Besides his injuries, what’s not to like…
at the very least, we’ll have a another legitimate starter NOW (next 2 years or so)
Fire Quin Movement!!
I disagree Kuri
its not like trading Austin Jackson for Curtis Granderson.
Francisco Liriano has had major elbow issues. Missed all of 2007 and most of 2008 after Tommy John. He also had injury problems in the minors when he missed all but 5 starts in 2003.
Banuelos has had no arm problems and we’d be talking about having him up even earlier than what you projected if not for his appendectomy.
I wouldn’t trade any of the top 5 Yankee prospects for Liriano. After that, yes I definitely would. But a guy like this who has had major surgery so young and only has two years of team control left is not deserving of getting dealt for top prospects, IMO.
I believe in the Church of Baseball
Free FreeBradshaw!
by Frank Campagnola on Feb 12, 2011 1:42 PM EST reply actions
Banuelos has a history of appendicitis, though. Could be a problem if he grows another appendix
Russell Martin is just like the Jewish Pharisees, trying to keep Jesus down.
by Wraithpk on Feb 12, 2011 5:43 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
i will be livid if we dont resign cano
I listen to Enter Sandman before taking exams. I wear the exact same jersey every Giants game. The Rangers goal song goes off in my head when I achieve small successes in life.
HEN-RIK
by BombersGmenBlueshirts25 on Feb 12, 2011 1:53 PM EST reply actions
the fact is...
Liriano is an explosive major league power pitcher. You can’t say that about any Killer ’B’s. In my mind hes in the second tier of major league pitchers right now. Hes just as good as david price or Tommy Hanson.
Lets follow the logic of upper management set by the Soriano contract. They over-ruled cashman on an organizational decision regarding the pick and decided to improve the team for now. The market is very barren when it comes to Starting pitching. I think if they really want to seriously improve the squad there should be no hesitation. They should aggressively pursue this guy and try to force the twins into moving him with a “wow” package.
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