New York Yankees News Roundup: Garcia, Montero, closers and more
Freddy Garcia came to terms on a minor league deal with the Yankees last night. He'll earn $1.5 million if he makes the ML club with an additional $3.6M possible via incentives (30 starts, which won't happen). What could it hurt though? He's been an above average starter for his career, and if he can stay healthy, he could give the Bombers decent enough quality from the back of the rotation.
- Jesus Montero ranked fourth on Keith Law's Top 100 Prospects list -
Montero is a physical beast, the rare front-foot hitter who can generate big-time power, reminiscent of Frank Thomas who was, himself, also a patient and disciplined hitter.
Andrew Marchand paraphrases:
Law goes on to say that Montero's defense is a question mark and reasons that if the Yankees made Montero their DH for the next decade they would not regret it.
This very question was pondered by Moshe Mandel of The Yankee U. You may scream "No!" initially, but when factoring in his (potentially) awful defense, and that he'll play more games each season, stay healthier and enjoy a longer career, the gap is fine indeed.
- The aforementioned Andrew Marchand, for what it's worth, predicted Andy Pettitte would play this year, and gave some good reasons. There were also notes/scouting reports about the Killer B's and Gary Sanchez.
- The Red Sox included a clause in Carl Crawford's contract that stipulates that if he is traded during his current seven-year deal, the receiving team cannot trade him to the Yankees.
- In the never-ending war of "We're the underdogs!", "No, we are the underdogs!", Boston owner Larry Lucchino refuted Brian Cashman's recent comments about the strength of the Sox rotation and called the Yankees the division favorites.
- Some positive words on bullpen acquisition Rafael Soriano, from BPro -
If he can avoid the elbow troubles that have resulted in two surgeries, he projects as an outstanding set-up man in a strong bullpen and a worthy successor in the closer role should Rivera choose to hang up his spikes in the next three years.
They also say the Yankees will feature the only bullpen where the set-up man and closer rely on cutters (not to mention 7th-inning guy David Robertson).
- However, another BPro article studies the usage of closers and comes to an unsurprising conclusion -
... the modern innovation of the closer has allowed teams to preserve one additional one-run lead in the ninth inning every two seasons or so...
The games we’re asking closers to save just aren’t there anymore. Now, plenty has changed in baseball over the past 60 years--I’m not sure this is attributable at all or in part to the change in reliever utilization--but the fewer close games teams take into the ninth inning, the less valuable your typical closer can be.
It makes so little sense the way modern managers use "closers." Instead of bringing them into the game at the decisive moment (which could be as early as the sixth inning), they use a lesser pitcher so that "the closer" can get the last three magical outs. This topic was also covered by Joe Posnanski a few months back -
Teams held 95.5% of their ninth-inning leads in 2010. Teams held 95.5% of their ninth-inning leads in 1952...
If you put someone good - your second- or third-best reliever - into the closer role, then you will have your best pitcher to use in key situations. You will have him to secure the eighth inning, of course, but you could also use him at other crucial times. I think the game is shifting that way now.
Hopefully Soriano becomes that versatile "fireman" that can come into the game before the eighth inning (gasp!) to stop an opposing rally. But I'm not holding my breath.
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I'm sure the Sox have been pretty happy with Ortiz as their primary DH
All these years. If Montero could come anywhere close to his production (roids or not) they’d be very happy with putting him at DH.
Strikeouts are boring- Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.
He should still play a position
Even if he’s bad at it. First off, the Yankees decided to sign A-Rod through age 63, which makes it pretty much impossible for them to have someone be a full-time DH. A-Rod is going to need a lot of time there over the next 26 years.
I don’t think it makes sense for Montero to stay a catcher. To me it doesn’t make sense for one of your best hitters to be a catcher, even if he’s good at it. It just causes too much wear and tear and keeps him out of the lineup too often. Ideally, Montero would start learning right field for the time being. Less mobile guys than him have manned the corner outfield spots and we know he has the arm for it. When Teixeira’s contract is up, Montero will still only be 27, so his ultimate position may still be 1b.
by Let's Talk About Tex Baby on Feb 1, 2011 10:46 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I see Montero as a C/1b/DH type like Victor Martinez
So if Gary Sanchez sticks, Montero will have other roles to play. I don’t think Montero has the athleticism to be in the outfield, especially with our great outfield now.
by jetanumba2 on Feb 1, 2011 10:49 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Ortiz didn't become a true power threat until he was 27
There will be plenty of pitchforks out if fans had to wait six or seven years for Baby Jesus to cure world hunger.
by Scooby Snacks on Feb 1, 2011 10:50 AM EST up reply actions
The "fireman" concept would probably be as resisted by the players as by the managers
Isn’t there a story out there (verified by a few sources) that Soriano threw a hissy fit when Maddon tried to use him like a “fireman” during Game 5 the ALDS? Also, Soriano has thrown plenty of verified hissy fits and temper tantrums in his career over perceived slights.
Do the Yankees really want to take a guy who already has attitude problems and make him the test case for the reliever as “fireman” concept?
Honestly, it would probably be better for the Yankees if they made Rivera the fireman and Soriano the closer just due to the attitude issues.
He will be fine. Noone is above the Yankees and he knows it.
Plus he loves Mo, so if Mo says to clean the toilets, he would.
"don't Brett Farve us" - Brian Cashman
So all his attitude problems are solved
By putting on a Yankee uniform and being friends with one of the other players on the team? That’s good to know.
Yep.
Mo is very, very powerful. I think you underestimate his powerfulness.
Hahahaha
I don’t think he will get crabby. There is a big difference playing on the Rays than the Yanks my friend. So, yes, putting that Uni on changes boys to men.
Is it too late to start up the Fire Girardi bus?
Yep, it changes boys to men ...
like Carl Pavano, Ed Whitson, Kevin Brown, Jimmy Wynn …
The problem with DHing Montero is that the Yankees have older players who are going to need to utilize the spot more as the years go by. A-Rod is 35 and signed for seven more seasons – very, very few players in baseball history have played played 100+ games at 3B year in and year out into their 40s.
For Montero to stick with the Yankees, he’s going to need to be able to catch at least half of the time. I don’t think there’s any way around that.
I doubt he’s mobile enough. It’s C, 1B, or DH.
Russell Martin is just like the Jewish Pharisees, trying to keep Jesus down.
+1 - Montero has to catch
ARod is at 3rd.
Tex is at 1st.
Both will need to DH
Posada is done after this year.
Cervelli is a questionmark.
The wildcard is Gary Sanchez. If the Yankees think he is the real deal then Montero gets traded.
I might pitch a fit but I won't put on my brakes. Stand in the Fire.
or gets moved to DH...
Sanchez is only in A Ball so he’s still got several years, Montero has several years to catch and establish himself, if Montero sticks, Romine gets traded. Tiexiera will be heading into the final years of his contract. If Sanchez comes up earlier I think they’ll make room for him. So Montero could very well be a 1b/DH and share time with an old Arod
When is Tex's contract up?
Maybe they trade Cervelli and not Romine?
Not sure about Montero at 1st.
Lots of options. Good options.
I might pitch a fit but I won't put on my brakes. Stand in the Fire.
Cervelli = a bag of balls
Romine will get traded because he has value. The only reason he’s still in the organization is because they want to see how Montero (or even Martin) does. If one of them proves to be brilliant Romine will get shuffled off. Maybe they can get something nice from the Royals since they are moving their big time catcher to the outfield for some reason.
I'm not sure what you're whying?
but I disagree with that statement. If you moved all your good hitting catchers to the outfield, you’ll just end up being stuck with crappy catchers and a slow outfield. We didn’t move Posada and he’s been productive offensively. You have to trust a player with the talent they have. If you keep moving players for this or that you’ll end up with defensive liabilities who can hit or fielding gurus who have no power. Finding a perfect middle ground is a lot harder than people think. Also it’s gotten to the point that I have to ask what exactly is a good catcher? Apparently Mauer is a bad catcher and i’m sure Posey will be too eventually. I say if he’s not completely wrong for the position keep him there until you have a reason to move him.
Posada
was never the prospect that Montero is. And how often do catchers with a bat like Montero’s come along? Mauer. Next? If the Twins keep Mauer at C for his entire career they’re foolish.
As of now, both Mauer and Posey are excellent defensively. That’s the point with Montero. If he’s not very good defensively and we have other guys who will do a better job behind the plate, you find SOMEWHERE to put his bat. If not, he should be traded while his stock is so high.
There's always next year
you find SOMEWHERE to put his bat. If not, he should be traded while his stock is so high.
You want to move him to first base? The average AL catcher “hit” .245/.312/.374 last season, while the average 1B .259/.345/.443.
Montero would be an above average offense first baseman, but as a catcher, he’s just otherworldly. Even if his defense is just passable, the advantage you get from having a catcher who can hit .350 FAR outweights whatever defensive shortcomings he has.
exactly
also if you need to move him to make room for Gary Sanchez, you worry about it then. Make him a 1b/C/DH and your problems are solved, no reason to abandon his position now and make him a liability
Kinda premature
He’s never even had a MLB at bat. Lots of guys hit in the minors and are a bit less than “otherworldly” in the majors. I, too, want him to start as a catcher. I was just trying to give jeta an answer as to why the Royals, and other teams, would move such a good hitting player/prospect to another position than catcher.
There's always next year
I like the Garcia signing and....
With Garcia, it shows that we actually are putting together some sort of decent back end rotation. One would have to believe that if Andy comes back , then these guys , Nova and Garcia could make the 5th and/or 6th starter roles.
Mitre who? Get the Eff out of here! Mitre is awful and for anyone to say otherwise hasn’t watched a whole hell of a lot last year, or the year before that. I do not want Mitre pitching unless we are up or down by 6 + runs.
Larry Lucchino is a DB, ’nuff said.
With Montero it worries me that Posada might be done before this season ends or at least platooning the DH role by then. I can’t see Montero staying in AAA if he is mashing the ball again with such power. A good problem to have.
And regarding Soriano, and the Feliciano, is that I don’t want to see them trying to do too much in the beginning of the year or over extend themselves to show their new team that they are legit. Take it easy.
In conclusion, Eff the Red Sux and I can’t wait to smash their faces in this year!
"don't Brett Farve us" - Brian Cashman
Travis, you don’t get another rec for using the word “aforementioned” again, one is all you get.
Russell Martin is just like the Jewish Pharisees, trying to keep Jesus down.
Mine is "thwart"
"WHO WOULD LEAD?! THE CLOWN?!"
by I'mGivingYouARaise on Feb 1, 2011 4:00 PM EST up reply actions
Pettitte returns
Nova and Garcia make 5 & 6
Bartolo overdoses on cheesburgers
Mitre is GONE!!!! YES!!!!!!
I might pitch a fit but I won't put on my brakes. Stand in the Fire.
why are we going with a 6 man rotation?
CC Hughes Burnett Garcia Nova, if Petitte comes back he’ll replace the back ender that sucks more.
Long relief
Sixth man goes into the pen as long reliever and then moves up when – not if – someone needs to miss a turn or three
I might pitch a fit but I won't put on my brakes. Stand in the Fire.
How long now until P & C report?
"I don't want one of those guys who'll drive in two but let in three every game." Casey Stengel
by tnredneckyankeesfan on Feb 1, 2011 10:32 AM EST reply actions
There is one but on too dark to see well.
by Scooby Snacks on Feb 1, 2011 10:44 AM EST up reply actions
First Grapefruit League/World Series preview game
February 26 1:05 PM – New York Yankees vs. Philadelphia Phillies
by Scooby Snacks on Feb 1, 2011 10:42 AM EST up reply actions
You could
bring in your closer at the “decisive moment”, say bases loaded, 1 out in the 6th. But there are several reasons to save him for the 9th.
+A decisive moment in the 9th is more important
+Opposing managers are more likely to pinch hit for important defensive positions in the 9th, meaning better hitters will be batting
+A blown lead before the 9th leaves time to regain that lead
+If you don’t have confidence in your middle relievers to get out of middle inning jams, who will you have confidence in if there is a 9th inning jam and your closer has already been used?
+Middle innings are SOMETIMES decisive and pressure-filled. The 9th inning ALWAYS is.
+Mo knows his role, knows when he is coming in the game, and can plan workouts and warm ups accordingly all season
We don't play for the wild card around here kid
What's the difference between bases load in the 7th and bases loaded in the 9th?
both suck. A jam is a jam is a jam. Maybe not your close but teams should definitely have a “fireman” they can put in whenever they need him. Kind of like Robertson was used before he overtook Joba in the bullpen hierarchy. However closers shouldn’t be used blindly for the 9th. Like the times Rivera is brought in for the 9th with a time game instead of letting the last guy come back out again and save Rivera for later in the game.
A few reasons why I don't think the fireman philosophy would work...
Pitchers pitch better when they know when they’re going to pitch. Closers have a whole routine that they go through to get ready. If they can’t anticipate in advance when they’ll be put in the game, they won’t pitch as well.
As you mentioned, there’s something to be said for saving your best weapon. A blown lead in the 6th isn’t as bad as a blown lead in the 9th. People talk about the “old time” closers, but when those guys came out in the 7th inning, they finished the game. That lessened the number of games they could be used in.
Most managers can’t be trusted not to overwork relievers if they’re not in a defined role. I think Girardi can, but most can’t. Closers are too important to have the Joe Torre’s of the world blowing them out early in the season.
Closers themselves would hate it because they wouldn’t have the saves stat to help them out in arbitration and in free agency. There’d be a lot more internal bickering.
I’m all for the idea of not using your closer every time there’s a 3 run lead in the 9th inning so that you can bring him in the 8th more often. I think it has to be limited to that, though.
by Let's Talk About Tex Baby on Feb 1, 2011 11:24 AM EST up reply actions
Do you have any data that closers pitch better in the 9th? It's fine and dandy to say that, but unless you go through the data you're just saying things.
Also, yes blown leads are worse in the 9th, but that doesn’t mean you should save your closer when you’re facing a bases loaded 1-out situation in the 7th, mostly because it’s very doubtful that you’re going to face a worse situation than that. That’s why I loved the Red Sox usage of Papelbon and Bard last year, with the obviously better reliever in a fireman role. It’s what allowed our best reliever to be free to come in to strike out Jeter and Swisher in a bases-loaded 1 out 2 run lead game in the 7th.
That’s the ideal situation. Have a good reliever as your closer, but your best reliever as a fireman. And feel free to replace your closer with your fireman if the situation warrants it.
I didn't say relievers pitch better in the 9th...
I said they pitch better when they’re prepared to pitch. I’m not sure how to compile data that would back this up since its a bit of a vague notion, but I’ve heard it expressed by many relievers over the years. Also it stands to reason: why do most closers have a routine they go through prior to warming up if that routine wasn’t beneficial to them in some way?
As for the Bard/Red Sox situation, the only reason Bard was pitching the 8th is that Papelbon was the incumbant and he would have caused a problem if he’d been taken out of the closer role. It’s the same reason why Pap will close this year. I really don’t think Terry Francona was doing anything innovative there, he was just acting to prevent a problem from arising. If Dan Bard’s not the Red Sox closer in 2012, you can tell me I’m wrong about this, but I have a feeling he will be.
by Let's Talk About Tex Baby on Feb 1, 2011 1:08 PM EST up reply actions
yeah the idea of closers needing proper notice to get ready
sounds like a load of bull, sorry. Pitchers not named Mariano Rivera, who is 3,000 years old, should be able to warm up like any other reliever, or that would be the benefit of having a fireman, he knows he’ll have to get ready in a moments notice
If that 6th inning blows up cause Joe trots out The Chad, the 9th inning may not matter cause we're down 5.
Miracles could happen, surely, but most of the time you are gonna lose those games.
People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring.
by WhatwouldJeterdo on Feb 1, 2011 2:56 PM EST up reply actions
the fact is
that no one knows if a jam will occur later on. Bases full, 1 out in the 6th IS a jam, and you’re best reliever has the best chance to escape unscathed. another jam MIGHT occur in later innings, but you just dont know.
To further on that, think about the following scenario: It’s the top of the 8th and we’re playing the Twins, up 4-2. There are two runners on, 1 out, Joe Mauer at the plate, Justin Morneau on deck.
If you get out of this inning with the lead, the 9th inning is the bottom of the order, the most dangerous hitters are retired, and you win the game ~95% of the time. If Mauer or Morneau get a big hit, the game is most likely tied.
Joe Girardi would bring in Boone Logan because it’s not the 9th inning yet, and because Mauer and Morneau are lefties, and that’s total nonsense. If you bring in Mo and he mows them down, the game is essentially over. Soriano/Chamberlain/Robertson/Logan are less likely to blow a 2 run lead when they start an inning against the bottom of the order than they are to give up 1 or 2 hits to the best hitters on the Twins.
Maybe Mo gives it up, but the game is on the line, and you live and die with your best pitcher. The idea of a closer just leads to managers saving their biggest weapons for so long that they don’t actually get used.
maybe that's the best place to put Soriano in
instead of strictly the 8th!!! because designating pitchers by inning makes very little sense in a strategic way. Maybe if the game goes according to plan, but you have to abandon the plan when shit hits the fan (which could be any game) and not just blindly commit to putting Robertson in the 7th no matter what.
I still think you save your closer to close the game
You don’t keep guys in your bullpen if you don’t think they can get outs. Joe should be comfortable with bringing in the next guy after Mo, the next THREE guys after Mo, to get out of that jam. If he wasn’t they wouldn’t be his setup men.
Boone Logan is brought in to face tough lefties because that’s why they have him. Why keep a lefty specialist if you’re not going to bring him in against the toughest lefties in the tough lefty situations?
I’m ok with the fireman philosphy and personally I think you should be able to match up Soriano/Joba/DRob with 6/7/8 inning in any order you want in every game, but your closer closes.
We don't play for the wild card around here kid
Boone Logan is brought in to face tough lefties because that’s why they have him.
And that’s what so stupid. Bringing in a bad pitcher instead of a good pitcher just because he throws with his left hand is “conventional wisdom” insanity.
I wouldn't say he's a bad pitcher
There are guys with better numbers in the pen, but he’s not bad in the sense that Chan Ho Park was bad. There’s room to improve but there’s a reason they didn’t say “let’s just use Mo against tough lefties”, they went and got Feliciano.
We don't play for the wild card around here kid
Well with the Mauer and Morneau situation
If it was an important game Mariano would come into that situation and finish the game. I’m all for flexible use of the closer, but there has to be a limit.
by Let's Talk About Tex Baby on Feb 1, 2011 6:43 PM EST up reply actions
But if it’s May and it takes Mariano 10-15 pitches to escape the jam, it wouldn’t be prudent to send him out for the 9th. It still makes way more sense to have Mo come in and take care of the known high leverage situation in the 8th and let the best pitcher who is left pitch with the bases empty and the bottom of the order up in the 9th.
There are two things that must be done for the Yankees to win:
-Don’t give up a hit to Mauer or Morneau with runners on.
-Don’t give up two runs in the 9th with the 5-6-7 hitters due up.
The first one is considerably more challenging, and so it should be the better pitcher who is sent out to do it. If you have to piece together the 9th and someone other than Mo gets credited with the save, so be it.
When Closers Used to Put Out Fires (Whenever they occured!)
I believe the role of the closer changed about 25 years ago when managers stopped assuming that starters we’re going to pitch a complete game.
Closers are routinely used now to pitch the 9th inning of games when their team is ahead by 3 runs. But in the past guys like Sparky Lyle, Rollie Fingers and Goose would come in as early as the 7th inning and almost always with men on base in tight games. (Sparky came in in the 5th inning of game 5 of the 1977 ALCS!)
But something happened in the mid-80’s : 5 man rotations, the redefining of what is a “quality start” and a bullpen full of specialists have led to how pitching staffs are managed today.
As less is asked of starters more pressure has been put on the pen to bridge the 6th, 7th and 8th innings and closers almost always start the 9th inning with no one on base.
by Lord Shankley on Feb 2, 2011 1:50 PM EST up reply actions
A quote from Theo on Cashman's statement about the Red Sox being better:
“I just laughed because I know how little thought goes into anything GMs say this time of year. It’s really just filling space…. They’re not going anywhere. It’s always nice to kind of try to play the underdog, some people in our organization have been accused of that in the past.”
Well Done on signing Garcia
Garcia is an excellent back -end SP. I expect Garcia to win a spot as a SP whether or not Pettite returns.
Mitre needs to be DFA no later than the end of ST. He is not worthy of a roster spot.
Nova should make the team as a spot starter & long man if Andy returns or #5 starter if Andy does not return.
If Andy does not return, I would rather see Colon as long man & spot starter than Mitre.
by YANKEES FOREVER on Feb 1, 2011 11:38 AM EST reply actions
This may have been addressed already, but who do Colon and Garcia displace from the AAA rotation?
I can’t for the life of me remember who they have beyond Phelps, Noesi, Mitchell…obviously none of the studs have been above AA yet.
"Game's the same, just got more fierce." ~ Slim Charles
no one
If they don’t make the team, they’ll be released and try to catch on somewhere else. It’s possible one of them may stick around as insurance, but more likely they’re gone if they aren’t on the MLB roster. They don’t want to go to AAA, and the Yankees don’t want them taking innings away from any of the prospects.
by long time listener on Feb 1, 2011 2:44 PM EST up reply actions
dont forget SWB's winningest pitcher
Kei Igawa! There’s also a chance Banuelos and Betances start the year in AAA.
Anyway, I would guess if Colon, Prior or Garcia dont make the ML club, they’ll decline a MiL option and try to sign with another ML team.
I love our rotation:
Joba Chamberlain
Mark Pryor
Freddy Garcia
Bartolo Colon
Ivan Nova.
How will we everlose a game? Especially with Mitre and Igawa waiting in the wings.
by designatedquitter on Feb 1, 2011 4:17 PM EST reply actions

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