Gio Gonzalez Headed to New York?
by Chris McKeown on Dec 7, 2011 10:00 AM EST
in New York Yankees Rumors
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PrintWhile this rumor should be taken with a grain of salt, there have reportedly been whispers of a three-way trade involving the Oakland A's and Kansas City Royals.
The following scenario was allegedly discussed...
Yankees acquire: Gio Gonzalez from A's.
A's receive: LF Brett Gardner from Yankees, 1B Clint Robinson from Royals.
Royals receive: RHP David Phelps from Yankees, OF Michael Taylor from A's, and a PTBNL from the Yankees.
Of course nothing should be taken way too seriously at the winter meetings, especially considering the fact that Brian Cashman is extremely comfortable with walking away empty handed, but the thought of this trade occurring is rather intriguing.
Exactly who is Gio Gonzalez? Well, he's been a fantastic starting pitcher for Oakland the past two seasons and made moderate strides between 2010 and 2011. He's logged 402.2 in 65 starts and finished a minimum of six innings in 48 of those starts (73.8% of starts). He also has a solid strikeout rate of 8.2 K/9 during that stretch and climbed from 7.67 in 2010 to 8.78 in 2011.
Interestingly enough, Gonzalez's velocity also jumped up last season on his fastball, curveball and changeup. The southpaw's bRef WAR tallies up to 6.7 since the beginning of 2010, ranking him 37th in baseball amongst starting pitchers.
Most of all, he's merely 26-years-old and will be entering the prime of his career over the next several seasons. Oh yeah, he's under team control until 2016.
The prospect of losing Brett Gardner is a bit disappointing due to his stellar defensive abilities and blazing speed, but how many years of 5-6 WARs does he have left? Granted, Gardner could very well be entering his prime at 28-years-old... but there's always a chance that an injury could quickly diminish his speed. Either way, he's under team control through 2015 and could remain a relatively cheap outfielder over the next three seasons for the Yankees or the Royals (comparatively to other left fielders).
Thoughts, Pinstripe Alley?
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As of this second I don’t believe that rumor at all. If the Phillies offered Brown, the Yankees won’t top that.
Follow me on twitter @nyybrandonc
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this rumor doesn't really have a lot of weight to it
and Cashman outright denied trading Gardner to the Nationals. Gio can take his home/away splits elsewhere.
I'm torn on dealing Gardner
Obviously getting Gonzalez would be a huge boost to the rotation, especially with him being a lefty…but Gardner’s speed on the basepaths is unparalleled in the league, his OBP is among the team’s leaders, his defense last year was excellent…ugh. So torn.
Time to trade Gardner
I think the Yankees would be selling high on Gardner to trade him now. Plus, if Yankee brass really likes Cespedes, this opens up a spot for him
by Arkansas Yankee on Dec 7, 2011 12:22 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I'd do this trade
what Gardner brings is probably irreplaceable, but to bring an arm like this in his prime and locked up for a long time is pretty much what we need here. Gotta give something up, and I’d rather it not be Jesus. Plus then you can sign Testedes.
Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows
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I just don’t think you’re getting equal value for Gardner in this trade.
I said this in the other post, but Gardner is the Yankees most valuable asset right now, more valuable than any prospect because he’s a proven major leaguer with an actual track record. 5 WAR outfielders don’t grow on trees, and he’s pretty likely to provide $50-$60 million surplus value over the four remaining years the Yankees control him.
Can we say that about Gio Gonzalez? Maybe, If he transitions well to the AL East, If he gets his walks under control, if if if if if if……
Gonzalez is a good pitcher but not an otherwordly talent. I’d prefer to keep Gardner and try to sign Roy Oswalt.
Jesus Montero has to be a full-time catcher, or the Yankees have to trade him. One or the other. Based on the age and contracts of the other players on this team, that's the only place he fits long-term on the Yankees roster.
by 3460kuri on Dec 7, 2011 10:46 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
it's better to pay only money
than trade away your best outfielder (or anyone, for that matter).
The risk is smaller, to me, to just spend money on a free agent versus trading away already great, proven MLB talent in return for, at best, a slightly above average young pitcher who still has to develop (get his walks down, learn to pitch in the AL East, etc as kuri pointed out).
exactly, dealing with a tightening budget it better than the loss of a key player
not that I’m crazy about Oswalt, but I really don’t think he could command or even want that many years (he was talking about retirement just last year…)
by MichaelGGBGrabow on Dec 7, 2011 11:06 AM EST up reply actions
I’d consider waiting out the Danks market and if we end up with no one oh well.
Follow me on twitter @nyybrandonc
Co-Manager/Writer for Pinstripe Alley, Editor/Writer for Blueshirt Banter
"No matter what I talk about, I always get back to baseball."
"Every day is a great day for hockey."
What do have against Chicago
I don't want to hear anymore CP3 to the Knicks trade rumors
Duggan mentioned Jackson, I hadn’t thought about him.
Follow me on twitter @nyybrandonc
Co-Manager/Writer for Pinstripe Alley, Editor/Writer for Blueshirt Banter
"No matter what I talk about, I always get back to baseball."
"Every day is a great day for hockey."
pretty certain you're overrating Gardner.
Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows
I agree
Should you choose to test my resolve in this matter, you will be facing a finality beyond your comprehension, and you will not be counting days, or months, or years, but milleniums in a place with no doors.
This
I'll do whatever it takes to win games, whether it's sitting on a bench waving a towel, handing a cup of water to a teammate, or hitting the game-winning shot.- Kobe Bryant
A.J. Burnett's only fan!
Oswalt? Even for one year, he’s gonna require a big payday. I’d do this in a heartbeat. We keep Jesus and Banuelos and the Yankees are very high on Williams and there’s Bichette.
Romine!
I don't understand putting more value in the money you'd pay Oswalt for one
year than Gardner and Phelps
by MichaelGGBGrabow on Dec 7, 2011 11:58 AM EST up reply actions
Bichette is not an outfielder
and neither he nor Williams is beyond A-ball, so it’s a bit soon to clear space on the 25-man roster for them.
Regardless
This is something I’d do, no questions. I agree with Rorschach, I think we’re overrating Gardner. More than half his “WAR” comes from defense, no? I think we could Dickerson out there, for that matter. And with the offense we have, he’d be fine. We keep Banuelos, Betances, and Montero and get Gio? It’s an easy decision to me. Differing opinions, is all.
Romine!
I counter with the suggestion that you are overrating Gio
And Dickerson, for that matter. Right now, Gardner is the best outfielder in the AL, but you think we can trot out Dickerson and get the same value? What, because he’s faster than the average replacement player?
What happens if Gio comes in, stinks up the place, and now we also have a retread in left field? We would be stuck waiting for one of our very few OF prospects to emerge, or hoping Yoenis pans out quickly, or looking to trade from a much weaker position than we’re in now.
I think Gio can be got cheaper, that’s really my only point. I think we could get more value for GGBG in a trade after the season he just had.
by waw on Dec 7, 2011 1:27 PM EST up reply actions
I did not say the best hitter who plays in the outfield
I said, the best outfielder. He plays great defense, not good defense. Best in baseball kind of defense. Also, he led the league in stolen bases, and he does a good job getting on base.
by waw on Dec 7, 2011 1:33 PM EST up reply actions
that's two words...
and i wouldn’t pull the trigger on a deal that included GGBG. at the level of talent/value on the field and, as mentioned above, the $ value, i’ve got me some love for the little fella (strictly platonic!). also, he’s a particular type of ballplayer that i think the yanks lack (at least in one package): d, speed, and… yep, gritty gutty determination/heart. definitely a guy i’d be reluctant to part with… i like a kuroda or oswalt 1-2 year scenario, setting us up to either take another crack at FA’s/trades when the market’s better OR bring up a young arm or two. in a word: flexibility, the wave of the future in yankeeland, if the cash man’s words are to be believed…
by sing_or_die_1818 on Dec 7, 2011 9:50 PM EST up reply actions
agreed. yes a lot of his value comes from defense, but it's just that...valuable
and a “speedy outfielder” is not the same as someone who steals 96 bags in two years
by MichaelGGBGrabow on Dec 7, 2011 1:41 PM EST up reply actions
Bichette could be awesome, as could Williams
My point was that they are years from the majors in all likelihood…
by waw on Dec 7, 2011 1:25 PM EST up reply actions
I agree with your entire post. But
I would substitute Edwin Jackson for Roy Oswalt.
Boone Logan is a good boy. So is David Robertson. Team A.J.
I'd rather trade Swisher than Gardner
Gardner is the better defender, younger, cheaper, steals bases, and is under team control much longer. I love Swisher, but I’d trade him first.
I'd agree that trading Swish is the smarter move
But would he be enough in a trade like this? Obviously the reason we’re hearing Gardner’s name being tossed around is all those qualities you pointed out.
I agree
I'll do whatever it takes to win games, whether it's sitting on a bench waving a towel, handing a cup of water to a teammate, or hitting the game-winning shot.- Kobe Bryant
A.J. Burnett's only fan!
37th in baseball among all players, or only pitchers?
I don’t know if I’d call Gio “fantastic” yet. His home/away splits, considering the pitcher-friendly confines of his home park, are a bit worrisome.
Also, I don’t know how you can discount Gardner’s value to the team by saying that, even though he is entering his prime, he could get injured. You can say exactly the same thing about Gio. Both are young, cheap, and under team control for several seasons. One has been the best defensive outfielder in the game and a league leader in stolen bases, and the other has been a good pitcher, but no ace. You are trading away Gardner’s proven value for Gio’s perceived upside, and throwing in another nearly MLB-ready pitcher in as well. This seems like a much better deal for Oakland than for the Yankees.
I vote to keep Gardner, especially since we have no viable replacement for him at the moment. Yoenis is unproven (not to mention, unsigned), and Soler/Mason/Heathcott are too far away.
The Padres are on the verge of getting Huston Street for a PTBNL
Why in the world would the Rockies do this?? Sell Street to the the Sox for Lars Anderson and Josh Reddick!!
Lars and Josh stink, I think perhaps some teams are starting to learn about the over hyped Sox system
If a guy has any decent value, the Sox arent trading him. I cant really think of any Sox spect that was traded other than Hanley that panned out in recent years.
Should you choose to test my resolve in this matter, you will be facing a finality beyond your comprehension, and you will not be counting days, or months, or years, but milleniums in a place with no doors.
I have no clue why the Royals are involved in this deal
Just to get random sub-par pieces?
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by Cory Braiterman on Dec 7, 2011 11:07 AM EST reply actions
Do Not Want
Gio Gonzalez’ best season (3.5 WAR) is still worse than Gardner’s 2011 (5.1). Over their four year careers, Gardner has provided twice as much value.
Why would we give up the better player, AND give up prospects, for Gio Gonzalez?
Position scarcity- much easier to find a young LF than a young SP.
Also, WAR vastly underrates the value of SP because it assumes that the “replacement” pitcher could handle the same number of innings. In the last 5 seasons, the Yankees have received 200+ IP from a starter 7 times. Twice from Andy Pettitte, once each from Mike Mussina and AJ Burnett, and 3 times from CC Sabathia.
Taking the ball for 6 innings every 5th day is one of the most underrated abilities in MLB.
This
Should you choose to test my resolve in this matter, you will be facing a finality beyond your comprehension, and you will not be counting days, or months, or years, but milleniums in a place with no doors.
hahahaha...
Heard from three people that the Yankees made a posting bid for Japanese shortstop Hiroyuki Nakajima to be a utility guy. Career .300 hittr
I wonder if that means Nunez is on his way out
by long time listener on Dec 7, 2011 12:16 PM EST up reply actions
the problem with Nunez
is that by the time Jeter retires, he’ll be a free agent. So he isn’t the replacement to Jeter, he’s just going to be a backup. Maybe this leads to a deal for Jair (shiver)
and now Ken Rosenthal says that the Yankees won the bid
by long time listener on Dec 7, 2011 12:19 PM EST up reply actions
If true
this is going to affect Jesus’ already limited playing time.
by Scooby Snacks on Dec 7, 2011 12:31 PM EST up reply actions
Jesus days as the Yankees utility infielder are already over!?
Should you choose to test my resolve in this matter, you will be facing a finality beyond your comprehension, and you will not be counting days, or months, or years, but milleniums in a place with no doors.
He's rated pretty high by NPB tracker
and will probably sign a deal earning him an annual salary higher than your average utility guy. If he proves to play well, the Yankees can afford to slot A-Rod/Jeter in DH more often.
(SS, Seibu Lions, 28) – Nakajima gets my vote as Japan’s second best hitter, behind Aoki. Nakajima doesn’t quite match up with Aoki’s pure contact skill or plate discipline, but is still very good in both categories and adds a bit more gap power to the equation. Nakajima is a back-leg hitter, with a big stride that he will occasionally shorten up. On the turf, Nakajima plays a solid shortstop, among many good shortstops in his league.
by Scooby Snacks on Dec 7, 2011 12:43 PM EST up reply actions
Depends on how badly he wants to play here or for the Yankees.
by Scooby Snacks on Dec 7, 2011 12:51 PM EST up reply actions
I'd rather trade Montero than Gardner
But hopefully they trade neither.
by Branta on Dec 7, 2011 12:32 PM EST via mobile reply actions
thats because you have a mancrush on Romine
I don't want to hear anymore CP3 to the Knicks trade rumors
I do not agree with this
Its a lot easier replacing a speedy corner OF than it is to replace a solid hitting catcher.
Should you choose to test my resolve in this matter, you will be facing a finality beyond your comprehension, and you will not be counting days, or months, or years, but milleniums in a place with no doors.
uh oh
According to multiple teams, the Yankees have let it be known they will listen to offers for Burnett and are willing to pay $8 million of the $33 million Burnett is owed over the next two seasons.
No team is going to want to pay AJ $12.5m per over the next two years. The Yankees will have to eat more than half of the $33m remaining and then hope big to get a decent prospect in return.
by Scooby Snacks on Dec 7, 2011 12:47 PM EST up reply actions
I think you’d have to reverse the numbers – the new team would only have to pay $8 million of Burnett’s $33 million salary. That might get it done.
Jesus Montero has to be a full-time catcher, or the Yankees have to trade him. One or the other. Based on the age and contracts of the other players on this team, that's the only place he fits long-term on the Yankees roster.
Good
I really like the guy more than most of the people on here but this would open up some new options for the Yanks. The Yankees could either trade for Gio Gonzalez or sign Kuroda to a one-year deal. This shores up the rotation without making a huge dent on to our already inflated payroll. Now that the Yankees have a utility-man in the fold all that would be left is to sign Jones or another left handed OF. I would also prefer trading Mason Williams for Gonzalez rather than giving up GGBG.
-Giants-I bELIeve in this team. Playoffs are in sight all they have to do is fight for it. Keep Baas on the sidelines.
-Rangers-I like to think back to when Thorton called the Rangers soft and LOL! The FAs the Rangers have gotten are nice but this team has built its strength from within.
by Livestrong77nyy on Dec 7, 2011 12:48 PM EST up reply actions
They'll be listening, alright
to the sound of crickets!
by waw on Dec 7, 2011 1:22 PM EST up reply actions
He might, but they'd be paying a lot (even with the partial offset) to find out
by waw on Dec 7, 2011 1:28 PM EST up reply actions
maybe Cashman's just playing a little hardball
If someone indicates interest at that price I’m sure he’d be willing to negotiate depending on what he gets back. Or maybe he thinks the pitching market is that thin that AJ plus $8 million would fetch something.
by long time listener on Dec 7, 2011 1:44 PM EST up reply actions
If they can dump him for that much you do that in a New York minute.
I sincerely doubt they will be able to though.
Bring on Gio.....Any Way We Could Trade Swisher Instead of Gardner???
I would do this trade in a minute. Gio is a solid #2 or #3 left handed starter in his prime for relatively cheap. Not that it was mentioned, but I would love to keep Gardner and his speed/defense (for cheap) and trade Swisher. I love the Swish’s personality but his post season slide cannot be ignored by me. Either way though, we NEED pitching and if we could get Gio with only giving up Phelps (and not Montero, Romine, Sanchez, Banuelos and Bentaces), than this would be a MUST DO steal.
by The Dirty South on Dec 7, 2011 12:47 PM EST reply actions
I would rather trade Mason Williams
but if GGBG were to leave for Gio it would still be one hell of a trade for the Yankees.
-Giants-I bELIeve in this team. Playoffs are in sight all they have to do is fight for it. Keep Baas on the sidelines.
-Rangers-I like to think back to when Thorton called the Rangers soft and LOL! The FAs the Rangers have gotten are nice but this team has built its strength from within.
by Livestrong77nyy on Dec 7, 2011 12:49 PM EST up reply actions
He is still an unproven commodity. Also this
The A’s seek players with zero or little big league experience for Gonzalez, tweets Danny Knobler.
-Giants-I bELIeve in this team. Playoffs are in sight all they have to do is fight for it. Keep Baas on the sidelines.
-Rangers-I like to think back to when Thorton called the Rangers soft and LOL! The FAs the Rangers have gotten are nice but this team has built its strength from within.
by Livestrong77nyy on Dec 7, 2011 12:52 PM EST up reply actions
They probably just want to have control over the player(s) they receive as long as they possibly can. That is if the tweet is true.
-Giants-I bELIeve in this team. Playoffs are in sight all they have to do is fight for it. Keep Baas on the sidelines.
-Rangers-I like to think back to when Thorton called the Rangers soft and LOL! The FAs the Rangers have gotten are nice but this team has built its strength from within.
by Livestrong77nyy on Dec 7, 2011 1:04 PM EST up reply actions
but you have no problem with trading Gardner, someone who has already proved
he can succeedin the majors?
by MichaelGGBGrabow on Dec 7, 2011 1:11 PM EST up reply actions
Can anybody give us a comparison of Gio Gonzalez and Jonathan Danks? I mean, which would be better to trade for. I understand what Chicago wants for Danks is crazy, but assuming that in a while the price will drop, which of these trades would probably be better.
Also assuming that the Yankees are holding off on any potential Garza deal, although it might cost us more than others…
Rec Generating Database
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by Jedi Master A-Rod on Dec 7, 2011 1:16 PM EST up reply actions
Hmm
Also gaining some buzz is John Harper’s report that the Oakland asking price for Gio Gonzalez was Jesus Montero, Mason Williams and either Manny Banuelos or Dellin Betances. Yikes. Cashman said last night that there are pitching upgrades available, but only at prices that anyone would turn down. Looks like he’s right.
No.
-Giants-I bELIeve in this team. Playoffs are in sight all they have to do is fight for it. Keep Baas on the sidelines.
-Rangers-I like to think back to when Thorton called the Rangers soft and LOL! The FAs the Rangers have gotten are nice but this team has built its strength from within.
Well, gaaaaaaaaawwwwwlllyy…they only want our top three prospects who happen to be some of the best prospects in all of baseball. Sheesh.
Romine!
They can keep dreaming.
Jesus Montero fangirl
by WhatwouldJeterdo on Dec 7, 2011 1:37 PM EST up reply actions
I'd be hesitant
about trading GGBG, especially with no apparent LFer heir, and for a pitcher with as many issues as Gio: BB rate over 4, 1.32 WHIP, 2.2 K/BB in a pitcher’s park. Maybe, if Cespedes was signed, but who would play LF for the ’12 Yankees right now?
I can't imagine that they'd trade Gardner without knowing who would play left
But I’m not convinced that Yoenis + Gio – Gardner makes us a better team.
by long time listener on Dec 7, 2011 2:39 PM EST up reply actions
Bedard & Oswalt
Bedard will pitch for 6- 8 weeks then go on the DL again.
Oswalt is 70% of what he used to be & will be too $ for his value.
Gardner is ok but is over rated – arm isn’t great either. Gio is ok, but pitching in the AL East is a bit different than the West. Seattle couldn’t score runs, neither could the Angels. His Home & Away numbers scare me too.
No one wants AJ period.
They could use another lefty in the pen too…
His arm is very, very good. He’s kept many a run from scoring because of it. Have you even watched him play?
Jesus Montero fangirl
by WhatwouldJeterdo on Dec 7, 2011 5:12 PM EST up reply actions
Correct me if stats prove me wrong, but I thought the belief is that Gardner’s arm is average (note: not below or above, just average) and runners think it’s below average so they run on him more, hence the “close call” outfield assists plays.
Follow me on twitter @nyybrandonc
Co-Manager/Writer for Pinstripe Alley, Editor/Writer for Blueshirt Banter
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"Every day is a great day for hockey."
Stats don’t really like his arm when playing centerfield, and they liked it better from left field in 2010 than 2011. Jose Bautista has a very good arm, in my opinion, and on fangraphs his Arm numbers are similar, but just a bit better than Gardner’s, with the exception of 2010.
http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=9927&position=OF#fieldingadvanced
http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=1887&position=3B/OF#fieldingadvanced
And this:
"The word’s out on him now," said Rob Thomson, the Yankees’ third-base coach.
Thomson, who works with the team’s outfielders, said he had spoken with coaches around baseball who have noticed that Gardner’s arm strength and accuracy have steadily improved. His eight assists — six as a left fielder — are tied for third in the major leagues behind Jose Bautista of Toronto and Jeff Francoeur of the Mets, who each have nine.
So, I don’t think he has the arm strength of Melky (zomg!), I don’t think it’s just average.
From here: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/29/sports/baseball/29pins.html
Jesus Montero fangirl
by WhatwouldJeterdo on Dec 7, 2011 6:25 PM EST up reply actions
Very interesting, thank you. I know you are as fond of Pena as I am, how about Thomson?
Follow me on twitter @nyybrandonc
Co-Manager/Writer for Pinstripe Alley, Editor/Writer for Blueshirt Banter
"No matter what I talk about, I always get back to baseball."
"Every day is a great day for hockey."
I like him. I mean, I’m a bigger fan of Pena and would love for him to be our manager, but I think Thomson is a fine 3rd base coach.
Jesus Montero fangirl
by WhatwouldJeterdo on Dec 7, 2011 7:17 PM EST up reply actions
NO MONTERO OR MAN BAN
All ive heard all day is that people are willing to part with montero for Gio. Francessa today said he would definitely do Montero and another piece as long as the other piece wasn’t Man Ban. Is he kidding? I totally don’t like this deal we can find a pitcher like this at somepoint this offseason(darvish) or next season WITHOUT giving up Montero and other prospects. I know financially Gio is a nice deal and he’s signed for a good amount of years but like I’ve stated many times on this site. spend $$$$ over prospects. Money is our one main advantage. Use it. Don’t blow the farm system, I don’t even know how good Gio would be in the AL east in this stadium
yeah
if this trade were actually on the table, its a no brainer.
No way Oakland does this
They will want several young high ceiling guys to be ready by 2015. Gardner is a great player and maybe the most underrated player in baseball, but this deal is not near enough for Beane.
DWTDD
by buckyyo on Dec 7, 2011 10:20 PM EST via iPhone app reply actions
Agreed
And I don’t know why Oakland wouldn’t want to keep Gio, I know from living in Northern California that he is a fan favorite.
The A’s are in the position that they are worse off than any team in the MLB, I’d say. The Stadium situation looks like it’s not going to be resolved any time soon, they have no money, and their system isn’t all that great.
Follow me on twitter @nyybrandonc
Co-Manager/Writer for Pinstripe Alley, Editor/Writer for Blueshirt Banter
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"Every day is a great day for hockey."
Positioning
Yankees have multiple options and are always positioning themselves like a chess match. If they can get Gio for cheap, they will do it. If not, they have other options: Darvish, Danks…
Neither of those are necessarily viable options
Darvish may or may not be posted, and is unproven in the MLB regardless of whether or not he is posted. The asking price for Danks is sky freaking high right now—beyond the current asking price for Gio.
Considering what the initial asking price was for Gio
and considering the fact that Beane plans to ask for a Dan Haren-type return in any trade for Gio…yes.
please Mr. Cashman
don’t sentence GGBG to 2-4 years in Oakland. I’m sure he’s innocent of all charges.
The above comment is not affiliated with the San Francisco Giants, is not based on a secret source of team information, and may contain personal opinion.
"I'll never forget San Francisco and all those beautiful moments."- Andres Torres
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