The Hall of Fame - A Numbers Problem Waiting To Happen
The offseason calendar is plodding along, and shortly after the new year the newest inductees to the Baseball Hall of Fame will be announced. Every sportswriter and blogger will then chime in about who made the cut, who didn't, and far too many will take this opportunity to pontificate (again) about why steroid users are dirty rotten cheaters.
Looking ahead, though, I never realized the logjam that's about to unfold in the next few years.
My cutoff for Hall of Fame consideration is around 50 career WAR. Anybody who's reached that threshold clearly played long enough and enjoyed a high enough level of consistent success to merit serious consideration, and I think this is a good place to start separating the contenders from the pretenders.
Here's this year's ballot. Each member of the BBWAA can vote for up to ten players, and there happens to be ten players who meet my threshold for consideration, plus a handful of guys like Don Mattingly, Jack Morris, and Lee Smith who don't but have still garnered a decent amount of support.
Next year, the list gets longer. It's unlikely that more than three players will be inducted in 2012, which leaves somewhere around 15 50 WAR players, plus the usual suspects on the 2013 ballot. By 2014, as many as 23 50 WAR players and usual suspects could still be on the ballot, with Randy Johnson, Pedro Martinez, Gary Sheffield, Ken Griffey Jr., Jim Edmonds, and Andy Pettitte all set to gain eligibility in the following two years.
With only ten spots on each ballot, a lot of good players are going to be left in the dark.
There are eight players currently eligible who I consider Hall of Famers - Jeff Bagwell, Barry Larkin, Edgar Martinez, Alan Trammel, Rafael Palmeiro, Tim Raines, and Mark McGwire. No less than five of them will still be on the 2013 ballot, when Barry Bonds, Roger Clemens, Mike Piazza, Sammy Sosa, Craig Biggio, and Curt Schilling gain eligibility.
That's 11 or 12 no-brainer Hall of Famers with only ten spots on the ballot. Now add Greg Maddux, Frank Thomas, Tom Glavine, Jeff Kent, and Mike Mussina in 2014, Randy Johnson, Pedro Martinez, John Smoltz, and Gary Sheffield in 2015, and Ken Griffey Jr and Jim Edmonds in 2016.
Even ignoring borderline players like Kenny Lofton, something has to change. The BBWAA hasn't inducted four players in one year since 1950, so they're either going to have to reverse course very quickly, or watch idly as more a dozen of the top stars from the 1990-2010 era fall off the ballot entirely. My guess, sadly, is that they opt for the latter, which mean an increasingly irrelevant Hall of Fame.
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I see Pettitte's name mentioned.
Does he even have a shot as an outed PED user (or even as not a PED user)? Sheffield’s another, no?
Am I the only one flagging this guy?
Seriously, do we have to wait for the money shot or a "F*** THE SOXXXXXX!" before we ban him? Doubleteapot… BAN HIM!!
by AlohaSox on Sep 28, 2011 10:20 PM CDT
by SandalsNoPants on Dec 23, 2011 12:07 PM EST reply actions
For some reason (and I could be wrong on this) it seems to me that by admitting it right away and apologizing for it Pettitte escaped almost all of the criticism and whatnot
Follow me on twitter @nyybrandonc
Co-Manager/Writer for Pinstripe Alley, Editor/Writer for Blueshirt Banter
"No matter what I talk about, I always get back to baseball."
"Every day is a great day for hockey."
It totally seemed like that, but I'm sure the voters remember.
Matthews, Jr., Ortiz, and who knows who else have addressed the issue and a few days later, there’s no more backlash. But like I said, none of it is forgotten. Pettitte shouldn’t be in the HOF, anyway, so it’s really a non-issue, but this makes it even more unlikely.
Am I the only one flagging this guy?
Seriously, do we have to wait for the money shot or a "F*** THE SOXXXXXX!" before we ban him? Doubleteapot… BAN HIM!!
by AlohaSox on Sep 28, 2011 10:20 PM CDT
by SandalsNoPants on Dec 23, 2011 1:25 PM EST up reply actions
What do you think about Mussina?
Follow me on twitter @nyybrandonc
Co-Manager/Writer for Pinstripe Alley, Editor/Writer for Blueshirt Banter
"No matter what I talk about, I always get back to baseball."
"Every day is a great day for hockey."
In.
Or should be.
Am I the only one flagging this guy?
Seriously, do we have to wait for the money shot or a "F*** THE SOXXXXXX!" before we ban him? Doubleteapot… BAN HIM!!
by AlohaSox on Sep 28, 2011 10:20 PM CDT
by SandalsNoPants on Dec 23, 2011 1:30 PM EST up reply actions
If you're screwing all the known PED users
Then are you also advocating to take all of the known cheaters already in the hall of fame and remove them?
I'll do whatever it takes to win games, whether it's sitting on a bench waving a towel, handing a cup of water to a teammate, or hitting the game-winning shot.- Kobe Bryant
A.J. Burnett's only fan!
Part of the problem is that the Hall and BBWAA has taken no offical stance on PED users, so a number of guys who clearly have HOF numbers continually clog up the ballot with 25-40% of the vote.
Even if you disqualify everyone who ever admitted to using steroids, there are still way too many good players and not enough spots on the ballot.
Jesus Montero has to be a full-time catcher, or the Yankees have to trade him. One or the other. Based on the age and contracts of the other players on this team, that's the only place he fits long-term on the Yankees roster.
It's not really a logjam since none of the confirmed PED users on the
list have a chance of getting in by the current voters. If they ever decide to let them in, then it will be a logjam.Considering Bonds’s conviction and Clemens’s legal problems, I don’t see it happening for a while (if ever.)
This is the first time I've seen it argued that any Hall of Fame should induct more people.
I don’t disagree that there are some worthy players that are likely in danger of being kept out, but I’d rather err on the side of exclusivity than permissiveness.
I do disagree that this problem makes the Hall of Fame more irrelevant, though. The outcry around the absence of certain players itself will maintain relevance.
Usqueadbaugham! Anam muck an dhoul ! Did ye drink me doornail?
Only one player is going to be elected this year
And that is Barry Larkin. Morris and Bagwell will see a bump, but will then could drop the following year when the four year onslaught begins. Biggio is probably the only definite in 2013, with Bagwell and Schilling having a 50-50 shot. Maddux will make it in 2014, with Thomas and Glavine having 50-50 shots of getting in the first year. 2015 Johnson and Martinez are the only definites, possibly with Thomas or Glavine, and with Smoltz having 50-50 shot. Griffey will get in in 2016, probably along with 1-2 of Bagwell, Schilling, Thomas, Kent, and Smoltz.
So after the 2016 ballot, you could still have Bagwell, Schilling, Thomas, Smoltz, Martinez, Palmeiro, Raines, McGwire, Bonds, Clemens, Piazza, Sosa, Kent, Mussina, Sheffield, Edmonds, and Lofton all with legitimately strong HoF arguments. Probably 3-4 will drop off the ballot, along with Trammell and Smith, who will either drop off or run out of time. The next 15 years of HoF voting will be very interesting, and the Veterans’ Committee better get its act together so they can pick up the BBWAA slack.
I’m fairly confident Thomas will get in first ballot because he hit 500 home runs and also made a point of speaking out against steroid use, which I’m sure will help lower any suspicion around him.
"Don't you think it's strange that you'll make more money than President Hoover this year?"
"Why not? I had a better year than he did." - G.H. Ruth
That's my feeling too
But he will get in barely if he does (75-80%), because of the steroids era, and also because he was primarily a DH.
by cookiedabookie on Dec 23, 2011 5:59 PM EST up reply actions
Frank Thomas is one of the great hitters of all time.
I think he’s getting in easily. Some people want to put Edgar into the hall for having the amazing .300/.400/.500 triple slash, and Thomas has that PLUS ridiculous counting numbers to go along with it that Martinez doesn’t have.
Am I the only one flagging this guy?
Seriously, do we have to wait for the money shot or a "F*** THE SOXXXXXX!" before we ban him? Doubleteapot… BAN HIM!!
by AlohaSox on Sep 28, 2011 10:20 PM CDT
by SandalsNoPants on Dec 23, 2011 6:16 PM EST up reply actions
No Logjam
There’re a lot of (pretty good/not tragic) excuses to keep some of these guys off. Ultimately that’s what’s going to happen. From the current to 2014 class, Maddux, Big Hurt, Glavine, Schilling, Biggio, probably Larkin, maybe Mussina, Bagwell, (seems like ped suspicion might be a problem) Piazza get in. But not all of those guys get in on first ballot. DH’s, guys with less than 400 hrs and less than 1500 rbi who played in Coors, and steroid users ain’t making it. I think you’re talking 2-3 players a year and no major outrage.
there're
clearly i never graduated elementary school, so excuse the typos.

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