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Pitching, Pitching, Pitching?

What's up with the rotation, Cash?

We heard it throughout the beginning of the offseason - Brian Cashman would be targeting "pitching, pitching, pitching" in trades and during free agency. But with relatively cheap and short term options available in free agency, what's going on with Cashman's offseason plan?

Over at the Yankee Analysts, Matt Imbrogno essentially summed up my feelings on the same topic by questioning the Yankees motives in ignoring Roy Oswalt and Hiroki Kuroda, both of whom are seeking one year deals.

From Imbrogno:

Okay. What the hell, people? I’ll start by saying that there are legitimate risks about both guys. Oswalt’s back is as balky as anything and Kuroda’s no spring chicken either. But they both represent possible or probable upgrades over what’s in the Yankee rotation, not including CC Sabathia. Neither one of them needs a long term commitment. The lack of interest on the Yankees’ part is stunning, and not in a good way. We keep hearing about the need for rotation upgrades and we keep hearing about high costs. Well, here are two relatively low cost options that are better than at least half of the non-CC Yankee rotation.

The lack of interest is confusing to say the least. Do Oswalt and Kuroda offer an upgrade in the starting rotation? Check. How about relative low cost? Check. Short term commitment? Check. So, what's the problem? Oswalt and Kuroda could be 2012's Freddy Garcia and Bartolo Colon, but with way more upside.

If the Yankees want to avoid those long term deals in order to get under the luxury tax threshold for 2014, and upgrade the rotation in the process, they should look no further than Roy Oswalt and Hiroki Kuroda.

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I really hope Cash has a trick up his sleeve

otherwise, if they are seriously going to stay below the luxury tax threshold then there better be a corresponding drop in ticket prices.

Boone Logan is a good boy. So is David Robertson. Team A.J.

by goyanks69 on Dec 22, 2011 10:14 AM EST reply actions  

Too many mixed signals on starters..

We hear the noise about pitchers in the minors like Phelps and Warren being ready and it doesn’t sound like Betances or Banuelos will get a call until later in the season, if at all. Than Cushman makes the remark about starting pitching being the off season focus. This is what’s frustrating to me…doing nothing. If he would have stated earlier that its going to be a wide open from the guys in the system, I would be ok with that. Do they not trust the younger guys?

by Kansas Yankee on Dec 22, 2011 10:17 AM EST via mobile reply actions  

pitching

I would prefer to try Noesi, Banuelos or Betances. I suspect that at least one of them is as good as Ivan Nova in mid-2010. I am not knocking either Oswalt or Kuroda, both of whom are professionals. But younger pitchers often are stronger down the stretch because of their lack of accumulated wear and tear. In retrospect, trading Tyler Cippard for Albaladejo was an error. This might be a somewhat similar case although we would not have to give up a player this time.

by logiet on Dec 22, 2011 10:29 AM EST reply actions  

Younger pitchers are generally weaker, not stronger down the stretch, because in most cases their arms are not used to throwing a full season’s worth of innings.

Contributing writer for Pinstripe Alley.
Follow me on Twitter @frankiecamp48

by Frank Campagnola on Dec 22, 2011 1:21 PM EST up reply actions  

The S Brothers are not their dad.

Say what you want about papa George. But he did whatever was necessary, regardless of cost, to put the most competitive team on the field every year. He cared about the fans and wanted to give them a winner. It’s obvious that the brothers S don’t care about the fans, just money. When all of these long term contracts expire, you will see the Yankees revert back to the pre-George days of the late 60s. Horace Clarke is coming back and with it, our former losing ways.

by OldYankee Fan on Dec 22, 2011 10:45 AM EST reply actions  

Not Sure About That

If anything it seems like it’s been the S brothers who are executing the too much moneyball strategy and $$$$man is the one holding back

by NYYankeeDude on Dec 22, 2011 11:55 AM EST up reply actions  

Say what you want about papa George. But he did whatever was necessary, regardless of cost, to put the most competitive team on the field every year. He cared about the fans and wanted to give them a winner.

Yeah, “papa George” helped them out so much in the 80s and early 90s…

"Don't you think it's strange that you'll make more money than President Hoover this year?"
"Why not? I had a better year than he did." - G.H. Ruth

Posting pictures

by Andrew GM on Dec 22, 2011 1:44 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

George liked the shiny bauble with the bat

Didn’t really give a damn about pitching. That is why the 80’s teams sucked.

by nj23nut on Dec 22, 2011 9:48 PM EST up reply actions  

The question I have is where Oswalt or Kiroda would fit in the rotation

CC is a lock. AJ is locked into the rotation unless Cash can somehow trade him. Nova should be a lock. I assume that they want Garcia to be a starter. The only move I could see is upgrading from Hughes, but I still hold out hope that we will come back strong, have a good 2012, and then go on to have a good Yankee career. If they are going to upgrade the rotation at all, the only spots where I could see them doing that are Garcia (but the new contract makes that unlikely) and Hughes.
I suspect the reason they didn’t pursue Darvish or Wilson was because they can see what the rotation will look like in a couple years when we replace AJ and Garcia with Banuelos, Betances, and/or one of the other prospects. At this point, a patch-job rotation may be what we go into the season with, and any upgrades will be of the Garcia/Colon type: just enough to be competitive until the young pitchers are ready.

by pastor2b on Dec 22, 2011 10:47 AM EST reply actions  

AJ doesn’t have to be locked in for a spot in the starting rotation. Not sure why he’d have to be. We are paying him regardless, why make our team worse? Kuroda/Oswalt would be hands down better options.

by cermolaNY2 on Dec 22, 2011 10:58 PM EST up reply actions  

The explanation is simple...

Cashman is still waiting for Cliff Lee to call

by lololol on Dec 22, 2011 11:01 AM EST reply actions  

pitching,pitching,pitching

Problem is Yanks have tied up the house in Long term contract’s to Jeter,A-Rod,etc.and now the ownership is becoming penny conscious.I would make some trades i.e.Cervelli and Swisher,Burnett,for a number # 3 starter.I agree with u I would sign Kuroda and Oswalt pending physicals of course.I notice many teams have number 3 or 4 starters available any one or two of them would seem to fulfill our needs.Why now the $$$$$ concern ???? only Cash knows.

by IRISH SADNESS on Dec 22, 2011 11:07 AM EST reply actions  

The salary concern is because of all the financial incentives in the new CBA to get salary under the cap within a couple years

Even if they just do it for one year, that is still a hefty incentive for them to lower salary. And honestly, I don’t see it as a problem. High-prices FAs rarely work out as well as you hope (look at A-Rod: awesome signing at the time, but now that he’s starting to miss more and more time due to injuries, it could very well come back to bite us when he needs a walker to get out of the dugout). What’s crucial is to develop talent from the farm system/trades. And in the long run that’s actually a lot cheaper.

by pastor2b on Dec 22, 2011 12:11 PM EST up reply actions  

PANIC!

BlahBlahBlahBlahBlahBlahBlah…

Romine!

by david d on Dec 22, 2011 11:19 AM EST reply actions  

Oh? This isn’t panic, this is questioning why the Yankees have seemingly ignored Oswalt and Kuroda despite that both of them make perfect sense.

They’re upgrades, they’re relatively cheap, and they don’t affect the 2014 payroll.

And then signing them doesn’t force the Yankees hand in rushing Banuelos and Betances since they haven’t even topped 130 IP in a season yet.

Contributing writer for Pinstripe Alley.
Follow me on Twitter @frankiecamp48

by Frank Campagnola on Dec 22, 2011 1:24 PM EST up reply actions  

Sorry, you misunderstood

Your post panicked me and the “blahs” were me babbling as a reaction to my panicked state. Never intended for it to come off as a reference to you.

Romine!

by david d on Dec 23, 2011 1:19 AM EST up reply actions  

My post made you panic?

Contributing writer for Pinstripe Alley.
Follow me on Twitter @frankiecamp48

by Frank Campagnola on Dec 23, 2011 2:07 AM EST up reply actions  

“Okay. What the hell people.” I guess if we don’t sign one of these guys we’re doomed.

Romine!

by david d on Dec 23, 2011 10:49 AM EST up reply actions  

That’s not the point he was trying to convey. It was more like: “Uhh, if you gus are saying you want to improve the rotation without spending too much money and avoiding getting stuck in long term deals, why are you seemingly uninterested in Oswalt/Kuroda?”

Contributing writer for Pinstripe Alley.
Follow me on Twitter @frankiecamp48

by Frank Campagnola on Dec 23, 2011 3:45 PM EST up reply actions  

The Yankees always traded the Phelps/ Warren/ Bettances/ Banuelos types away in the past for aging outfielders.

Now they aren’t. They used to throw huge bucks at Kenny Rogers/ Kevin Brown/ Carl Pavano – type starters. Now they aren’t. Which strategy is better?

If I add Denny Neagle and Jaret Wright, does that help?

With the kids in the minors, if they don’t work out you can send them back down, trade them, or drown them like a litter of kittens, and nobody cares. People would be angrier about the kittens.

by designatedquitter on Dec 22, 2011 11:21 AM EST reply actions  

Difference is that these guys aren't going to be here long term.

there’s virtually no risk of giving them one year deals. Both Kuroda and Oswalt have had big league success which is something the kids do not. They are more likely to be an upgrade over someone already in the rotation not named CC. Even with the extra price tag, it’s not going to matter much seeing as the team has the money and the budget concerns are slated for 2014 They already have to pay the luxury tax regardless i believe, so adding a one year deal isn’t sending them over a limit they have not already crossed.

by lololol on Dec 22, 2011 11:33 AM EST up reply actions  

haha what? we are asking for one year contracts.

by cermolaNY2 on Dec 22, 2011 11:00 PM EST up reply actions  

"Oswalt and Kuroda could be 2012's Freddy Garcia and Bartolo Colon."

Except that they’ll cost 10 million more each at least. That’s a big difference, especially since they could also not be 2012’s Freddy Garcia and Bartolo Colon.

by Skinnyslim on Dec 22, 2011 11:30 AM EST reply actions  

And Freddy and Bart had pitched their entire(?) careers with success in the AL. Who knows how Oswalt and Kuroda would fare..?

Romine!

by david d on Dec 22, 2011 11:44 AM EST up reply actions  

Roy and Hiroki are long-shots and I strongly agree with your point. However the rest of the non-CC rotation is also a crap shoot as well. Since the probability of fielding a decent rotation improves when you add those two into the mix and since they can also be signed for short-term deals on the cheap, in the absence of getting a more predictable starter, which seems to be the plan, adding these two into the mix is better than nothing.

by NYYankeeDude on Dec 22, 2011 12:00 PM EST up reply actions  

Emphasis on they have to be cheap and these $10mm figures aren’t

by NYYankeeDude on Dec 22, 2011 12:01 PM EST up reply actions  

Freddy and Colon also didn’t have much success in the past few years until last year. Kuroda and Oswalt, despite being in the NL were at least successful in the last few years.

by lololol on Dec 22, 2011 12:06 PM EST up reply actions  

The thing about Colon/Garcia last year was that they were dirt cheap

Kuroda and Oswalt would each be making $10M+ and last year the Yankees didn’t go in relying on Colon, he was an accident that turned out ok. I highly doubt Cashman is willing to hand over that much money and a guaranteed rotation spot to Oswalt’s back when they’ve already sent Alfredo Aceves packing.

I think Cashman said that before the new CBA and before the luxury tax penalties. Before they could afford to throw a large amount of money at someone, but now I think they are going to stay more cautious until someone worth the money (without a pesky posting fee) shows up. The Yankees have a full rotation now and they have almost a full rotation of alternatives. I’m sure Cashman believes they will be alright until at least midseason. There’s no reason to panic.

by jetanumba2 on Dec 22, 2011 11:31 AM EST reply actions  

How's this

We need 2 good middle men in the pen. Lets try Wood he is good and you pick the next one Cashman, your going to need them.

by Terry P on Dec 22, 2011 2:00 PM EST reply actions  

Wood doesn’t want to play for the Yankees. He made that clear by taking a lot less money to go to the Cubs.

Jesus Montero fangirl

by WhatwouldJeterdo on Dec 22, 2011 2:11 PM EST up reply actions  

Wood’s made it clear he’s either going back to the Cubs or retiring.

"Don't you think it's strange that you'll make more money than President Hoover this year?"
"Why not? I had a better year than he did." - G.H. Ruth

Posting pictures

by Andrew GM on Dec 22, 2011 2:11 PM EST up reply actions  

Please

No more

Follow me on twitter @nyybrandonc

Co-Manager/Writer for Pinstripe Alley, Editor/Writer for Blueshirt Banter

"No matter what I talk about, I always get back to baseball."

"Every day is a great day for hockey."

by Brandon C. on Dec 22, 2011 2:14 PM EST up reply actions  

Soriano should probably be with the bottom three, actually.

Follow me on twitter @nyybrandonc

Co-Manager/Writer for Pinstripe Alley, Editor/Writer for Blueshirt Banter

"No matter what I talk about, I always get back to baseball."

"Every day is a great day for hockey."

by Brandon C. on Dec 22, 2011 5:02 PM EST up reply actions  

It was meant to be “stick with the guys we have.” But it looks like I’m saying I want Soriano (and his deal) on the Yankees.

Follow me on twitter @nyybrandonc

Co-Manager/Writer for Pinstripe Alley, Editor/Writer for Blueshirt Banter

"No matter what I talk about, I always get back to baseball."

"Every day is a great day for hockey."

by Brandon C. on Dec 22, 2011 5:12 PM EST up reply actions  

how about we keep the bullpen the way it is, get a good starter and skip the middle men

no one likes a middle man. Unless you’re going for a Nicaraguan Jello Sandwich. Which if you do, there’s nothing wrong with that

Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows

by Rorschach44 on Dec 22, 2011 11:42 PM EST up reply actions  

Pretty clear

That the Yanks intend to give the AAA guys a shot this year. So they’re doing what many of us asked for, but this seems to make many folks antsy?

1) AJ is who we need to dump, but no takers, and we won’t ‘Igawa’ him and send him to the minors. And who knows, maybe he gets his head out of his ass and wins 60%+ of his decisions…one can always dream.
2) All these young guys, Noesi, Warren, Phelps, Betances, whoever, how in the hell are they ever going to get meaningful chances to pitch if we keep busting Freddy Garcia deals to guys like Oswalt and the LA guy?
3) Not saying Freddy isnt groovy, just that we dont need any more one-year stop gap contracts if it means barring the door on the AAA farm guys.
4) If Phil can come in in great shape and have a rebound, it will take pressure off the fifth starter, thereby ideally freeing management up to giving Noesi/Warren/Phelps/Betances opportunities to win that slot.
5) Hell, if AJ sucks, I say pull him and put two AAA guys in the five-man and see what happens. I wouldn’t guarantee AJ shit except the $32M remaining on his contract.

by Alex40204 on Dec 22, 2011 5:01 PM EST reply actions  

I don’t think their are really many spots for those young guys even if we don’t add anyone. Maybe Noesi.

by cermolaNY2 on Dec 22, 2011 11:03 PM EST up reply actions  

i’m at the bar since noon so i’ll say this as delicate as possible without trying to offend you panty wearers out there. Noesi is the man the Yankees need and got. Warren, Phelps, Betances, and Banelous are a year or less away. so STFU we’re going to be okay.

by bleedsyankeeblue on Dec 23, 2011 1:05 AM EST reply actions  

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