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Around SBN: What If This Is It For The Celtics? End Of An Era Looming

Justin Verlander and the Power of Narratives

Mood Music - War by Edwin Starr

I don't have much of a capacity to get worked up about the major awards anymore, and I won't waste too many keystrokes telling you what you already know.  But, by selecting Justin Verlander as the American League Most Valuable Player, the Baseball Writers Association of America has made quite a deviation from the status quo.

The last time that a pitcher won the AL MVP was Dennis Eckersley in 1992 (oy), with the last starting pitcher being Roger Clemens in 1986.  No pitcher has been the NL MVP in that time frame.  Needless to say, the committee does not pick pitchers very often, but saw fit to break the mold for Verlander.

Star-divide

Before I go further, I should first posit that, given anyone's interpretation of the word value, there is no reason why a pitcher could not be the player to contribute the most value any given season.  Although Verlander only appeared in 34 games, he had a much bigger impact on those games than a position player would on any of his 162.  It is unlikely, but not impossible, that a pitcher could provide more value in less games.

As for them being disqualified due to already having the Cy Young Award to win, that's a whole different story; but, as they are not explicitly considered ineligible, for the sake of this post I will consider them as equal.

For Verlander to have been chosen for this award, it would follow that he had a truly spectacular season; one of the greatest pitching performances of the past 20 years, giving the writers a reason to overcome the "pitchers can't be MVP" hurdle.  And, while Verlander's season was certainly great, for me it really wasn't that great.  Here's a comparison:

2011 Justin Verlander: 251.0 IP - 2.40 ERA - 2.99 FIP - 8.96 K/9 - 2.04 BB/9 - 7.0 fWAR
2010 Felix Hernandez: 249.2 IP - 2.27 ERA - 3.04 FIP - 8.36 K/9 - 2.58 BB/9 - 6.2 fWAR
2009 Zack Greinke: 229.1 IP - 2.16 ERA - 2.33 FIP - 9.50 K/9 - 2.00 BB/9 - 9.3 fWAR
2008 Cliff Lee: 223.1 IP - 2.54 ERA - 2.83 FIP - 6.85 K/9 - 1.37 BB/9 - 7.2 fWAR

Not even counting historic seasons like Pedro Martinez's 1999 (that did not get him the MVP), there are seasons of comparable brilliance to Verlander's just about every year.  In MVP voting, Felix finished 16th, Greinke finished 17th, and Lee finished 12th.

The obvious elephant in the room is Verlander's role on the playoff bound Tigers and his 24 wins.  Everyone left of Murray Chass will concede that there are valid reasons to be skeptical of pitcher wins as a statistic.  While Verlander's 24 wins is the most in the American League since 1990, the league leader has had twenty or more in 25 out of the last 29 years.  Bob Welch won 27 games in 1990 and was 9th in MVP voting.

Even if we humor the concept that pitcher wins are a valid indication of performance, there is a rich history of pitchers putting up gaudy win totals and not sniffing this award.  As for his role on the Tigers, could you argue that he contributed more (+5.14 WPA) than Miguel Cabrera (+7.31 WPA)?*

* For those wondering, yes, Jose Bautista led in this category too with +7.86.

This was a strong MVP field, with great seasons from Bautista, Cabrera, Jacoby Ellsbury, and Curtis Granderson.  It's tough to rationalize what Verlander did for his season to be held in such high esteem.  

But, if you think about it, the answer is probably very simple:  Verlander held the power of the narrative this season.  He flirted with a no hitter seemingly every time out, throws 101 MPH in the 8th inning, and is incredibly fun to watch.  His final results may not have been historic, but they were presented that way through both exciting pitching and an adoring media.

I wish that didn't matter as much as it did, but it does.  Sportswriters voted for the story, and that's the way it goes.

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Ahhhh Narratives

The be all & end all of baseball for the foreseeable future

"WHO WOULD LEAD?! THE CLOWN?!"

by I'mGivingYouARaise on Nov 21, 2011 6:01 PM EST reply actions  

I just posted mine!

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by Brandon C. on Nov 21, 2011 6:16 PM EST up reply actions  

Read the post! And yes

Follow me on twitter @nyybrandonc

Co-Manager/Writer for Pinstripe Alley, Editor/Writer for Blueshirt Banter

"No matter what I talk about, I always get back to baseball."

"Every day is a great day for hockey."

by Brandon C. on Nov 21, 2011 6:26 PM EST up reply actions  

GRANDYMAN!!!

Ok I get that because Granderson had a low batting average that he couldn’t be the MVP in these yankee-hating sports writers eyes but 4Th in the balloting!!! Come on give me a break! Without Grandy we may not of won the division or even made the playoffs! What the hell do these writers think MVP is! I guess the yankee players won’t be an MVP unless they hit 350 with 60 homers and 170 RBI’s!!!

by David1950 on Nov 21, 2011 6:18 PM EST reply actions  

Grandy did not end the season strongly enough at all.

If he had, he’d have been higher in the voting.

Jesus Montero fangirl

by WhatwouldJeterdo on Nov 21, 2011 8:08 PM EST up reply actions  

agreed

he finished with a .262 batting avg. i know this isn’t the best statistic in the world, but bbwa loves it and to be fair, curtis doesn’t help himself by striking out quite a bit. he had a fantastic season – the best of his career – but not the best in the league

Boone Logan is a good boy. So is David Robertson. Team A.J.

by goyanks69 on Nov 21, 2011 8:16 PM EST up reply actions  

Who cares about Justin Verlander? Another pitcher just accomplished a rarer feat

David Robertson just became the second non-closing reliever to get both MVP and CY Young votes in the same season. The first reliever: Mariano Rivera in ’96

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by bluecheese999 on Nov 21, 2011 6:26 PM EST reply actions  

x

Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows

by Rorschach44 on Nov 21, 2011 6:32 PM EST reply actions  

But....teh Winz!!!

This was very bizarre as for some reason there was a growing movement among sports talking heads supporting Verlander while typically pitchers who have similar or better seasons don’t get the same kind of support. I don’t remember a pitcher being even seriously considered since Pedro in 1999, and there have certainly been better seasons than Verlander’s 2011 since then.

As for Jose Bautista the best player in baseball in 2011 finishing 3rd…just wow.

by Let's Talk About Tex Baby on Nov 21, 2011 7:07 PM EST reply actions  

You have a pretty serious flaw in your counter-narrative
This was a strong MVP field, with great seasons from Bautista, Cabrera, Jacoby Ellsbury, and Curtis Granderson. It’s tough to rationalize what Verlander did for his season to be held in such high esteem.

It may be that this was a “strong” MVP field in terms of WAR numbers, but it’s actually a weak field for narratives. No one player seized baseball’s imagination or separated himself from the field. Had the Red Sox not collapsed, Ellsbury had a legitimate shot at the award. Had Granderson not utterly collapsed in September (.205/.300/.375), we might be talking about the 4th Yankee MVP in 20 years. If Miguel Cabrera wasn’t the least appreciated great player in league…

Just like Pedroia’s MVP in 2008, just like Tejada in 2002, this was a season for split ballots.

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by jscape2000 on Nov 21, 2011 7:09 PM EST reply actions  

Well, this was kind of my whole point. Those guys all had great seasons, but Verlander’s was the only one that passed the narrative test, so Verlander won.

by Lord Duggan on Nov 21, 2011 9:37 PM EST up reply actions  

Ridiculous.

Bautista and Cabrera affected the outcome of every game (or had the chance to), whereas Verlander affected 34 games. Yes, he had a dominant season, but that is what the Cy Young was for.

If a pitcher is going to be eligible for the MVP and a pitchers only award, there needs to be an award for the most valuable/best positional player. The Babe Ruth Award maybe?

by nj23nut on Nov 21, 2011 8:19 PM EST reply actions  

That or give the CY to Swisher for what he did in his only outing

0.00 ERA.
If a pitcher can win the MVP, a position player who pitched to the tune of a 0.00 ERA should have the same opportunity to win the Cy Young award.

Romine!

by david d on Nov 21, 2011 8:22 PM EST up reply actions  

I also like what Rob Neyer said

Verlander wins and Jered Weaver gets nothing at all? Sabathia’s 14th?

Basically the voters found Verlander that much better? Really?

Follow me on twitter @nyybrandonc

Co-Manager/Writer for Pinstripe Alley, Editor/Writer for Blueshirt Banter

"No matter what I talk about, I always get back to baseball."

"Every day is a great day for hockey."

by Brandon C. on Nov 21, 2011 8:38 PM EST reply actions  

I would, too.

I’m un-believable…Oh!

Romine!

by david d on Nov 21, 2011 9:39 PM EST up reply actions  

Goes back to the starting pitcher being a candidate, thing

Robertson pitched in a lot more games. Kinda like Mo finishing what, 12th(?) in ’96.

Romine!

by david d on Nov 21, 2011 10:52 PM EST up reply actions  

If starting pitchers are borderline because they only play every 5 days

Then a reliever who throws 1/3 as many innings should be three times as borderline. At least the starter has a say in whether the team is winning or not. The reliever only comes in once the team has the lead late, which gives him a large advantage. An even larger advantage comes from not having to face any batter twice in the same game.

Putting a reliever on the MVP ballot is nothing more than making a statement that you think the 10th place vote doesn’t matter, so you’re going to give it to somebody you like, so his name winds up in the totals. It’s no better than any of the other hogwash we’ve seen and complained about lately from the BBWAA.

by waw on Nov 22, 2011 12:43 AM EST up reply actions  

You greatly undervalue relievers.

Relievers are purely situational pitchers. They come into the game in high pressure situations. They don’t always get to start an inning fresh either. And they rarely get to face an entire lineup more than once. Relievers take the mound with the game on the line and usually the game in balance. It’s foolish to think a reliver is just there to mop up after the starter. They have very little margin for error.

 A starter begins the game with a clean slate. He can have a crappy 1st inning where he gives up a couple runs, but 90% of the time he is back on the mound for the 2nd inning and has a chance to “settle in”. If he still sucks, you replace him with a reliver. He has a leash. What happens when David Robertson takes the mound in the 7th inning and gives up 2 runs? Do you give him the 8th? Who cleans up his mess if he pitches poorly? You probably yank him before the 7th is over!

In some ways, relievers are MORE valuable than starters. Verlander started 34 games, CC Sabathia started 33 games. No matter what, Verlander and Sabathia had an effect on ONLY 34 and 33 games. David Robertson pitched in 70 games. More than double both pitchers. He may have only pitched 66 innings compared to 200+ for the other guys, but all of Robertson’s innings were late in the game and in situations where he had to protect a lead or limit inherited baserunners from scoring more runs. Robertson doesn’t get the luxury of early innings to figure out what works and what doesn’t. He has to be at the top of his game from the first pitch he throws!

It’s incredibly naive to simply brush aside the value of relief pitchers like you have.

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by Chris Child's Fist on Nov 22, 2011 10:12 AM EST up reply actions  

I never said relievers have no value

But there is no way you can ever convince me that a relief pitcher will EVER deserve an MVP. Which was, of course, the whole point of my comment.

And stats like WAR and WPA will show that relievers have less value than decent starters. It’s much harder to find a guy who can give you 200+ innings, who can face the same batters 3+ times per game without getting exposed, than it is to find a guy who can dominate for one inning, for only 70 innings per season.

by waw on Nov 22, 2011 3:54 PM EST up reply actions  

Amen, this is what i've been saying all a long

Verlander had a nice season…but it isn’t even the most dominant season in recent memory. And for all the talk about him pitching the tigers into the play offs, then why didn’t CC win the mvp for single handily pitching the brewers into the play offs in 2008, taking the ball practically every other day.

by lololol on Nov 21, 2011 9:09 PM EST reply actions  

Not only did Greinke put up better numbers than Verlander, but he did it in a tougher offensive environment.

Contributing writer for Pinstripe Alley.
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by Frank Campagnola on Nov 22, 2011 12:34 AM EST reply actions  

Zack Greinke’s 2009: 229 1/3 IP, 2.16 ERA, 2.33 FIP, 9.5 K/9, 2.00 BB/9, 0.43 HR/9, 9.3 fWAR, 9.0 bWAR.

Justin Verlander’s 2011: 251 IP, 2.40 ERA, 2.99 FIP, 8.96 K/9, 2.04 BB/9, 0.86 HR/9, 7.0 fWAR, 8.6 bWAR.

2009 AL Offensive Environment: .267/.336/.428, .764 OPS 1 .13 HR/Game, 4.82 Runs/Game.

2011 AL Offensive Environment: .258/.323/.408. .730 OPS, 1.00 HR/Game, 4.46 Runs/Game.

People act like Verlander’s 2011 was the greatest, most amazing pitched season in the last 25 years, and it isn’t even the best pitched season in the last 3 years.

Contributing writer for Pinstripe Alley.
Follow me on Twitter @frankiecamp48

by Frank Campagnola on Nov 22, 2011 1:28 AM EST up reply actions  

Not to mention

2011 Verlander: 4.73 average run support
2009 Greinke: 3.78 average run support

by phonty on Nov 22, 2011 1:49 AM EST up reply actions  

But the win-Loss? oh oh and he played for a non play off team or w/e. and he doesn’t throw a fastball 100 mph and uhh….he’s crazy?

by lololol on Nov 22, 2011 1:52 AM EST up reply actions  

Perhaps the voters wanted to give it to Ellsbury and his 9.4 WAR, but didn't want to give another award to the Red Sox.

After giving the swinish, self- centered, whiner Ortiz the Roberto Clemente Award for being the least swinish, team- oriented, class act, they were too embarassed.

by designatedquitter on Nov 22, 2011 9:44 AM EST reply actions  

pitchers should win MVP every year

if you believe that winning is all about pitching, then pitchers should win the MVP every year. That’s why you let the position players battle for MVP.

by mspcpa on Nov 22, 2011 1:48 PM EST reply actions  

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