Yankees Starting Pitching - Target #1: Nobody?
by Chris McKeown on Nov 11, 2011 4:30 PM EST
in New York Yankees Analysis
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PrintAt the start of this, I planned to list five brand new free agent pitchers that would potentially make sense for the Yankees to pursue. In the end, I've only listed four.
The Yankees don't exactly need to target a free agent pitcher in order to make a bold statement between now and spring training. Something that would be wise to do is resign Freddy Garcia and have him as a fifth starter or an option for a long reliever out of the bullpen. However, I'm certainly not writing up a story simply about Garcia. We've all seen what he brings to the table.
Personally, I like the suggestions of letting some of the Baby Bombers come up and take a stab at this whole "MLB pitching" deal. New York has a plethora of talent that has been marinating down at Scranton Wilkes-Barre for a while now. While the "Killer B's" (Dellin Betances and Manny Banuelos) could use an entire year or more at Scranton Wilkes-Barre to focus on location issues, options such as Adam Warren and David Phelps could potentially make the move to the big leagues and provide a spark. If you'd like to read some scouting reports on Warren and Phelps, click here and here.
After resigning CC Sabathia, there doesn't appear to be a mad scramble for the next best pitcher available. The Yankees will be more reserved with their spending so that they don't have between 8-10 players making up 75% of the team's salary in 2013.
Let's remember that the 2011 edition of Yankees was a very strong team. Five games in the playoffs shouldn't blemish an entire season worth of work. The Yankees will continue to bolster one of the top hitting lineups in all of baseball as well as an improved, lights out bullpen with the return of Joba Chamberlain from Tommy John surgery.
Starting pitching is and will always be the main focus, but that's really the only part of this team that could benefit from some significant addition this offseason. If they opt not to make a free agent splash, please don't fear that all is lost.
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You misspelled TWEEEEEST
"WHO WOULD LEAD?! THE CLOWN?!"
by I'mGivingYouARaise on Nov 11, 2011 6:04 PM EST up reply actions
I just needed you guys to bear with me as I progressed through the list.
"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring." --Rogers Hornsby
by Chris McKeown on Nov 11, 2011 4:34 PM EST up reply actions
Depending on Warren or Phelps to "provide a spark" would be foolish in my opinion.
Jeter, A-Rod, and Teixeira aren’t getting any younger and the Yankees should do all that they can to really
lol comment fail
They should do all that they can to shore up the rotation so that they can compete in 2012.
You don’t think CC, Nova, AJ, Hughes and perhaps Garcia and/or a prospect will keep us competitive? I do.
Romine!
They could possibly keep them competitive
But just because they can, why wouldn’t they do what they are capable of to try and get as good as possible for 2012? The offseason is an opportunity to get better, and for the Yankees with their resources in terms of both prospects and money, it’s easier for them than anyone else. Doing nothing seems like settling for what they have and hoping for the best, rather than striving to improve and get better.
Just because the team as it is could be competitive doesn’t mean they should do nothing.
Let us all congratulate the Boston Red Sox for becoming the first World Champions in the history of sports to NOT make the postseason! Thats not easy to do!
So basically.
Yu?
Crouching moron, hidden smarta**
Optimism, pessimism, F*CK THAT; we're gonna make it happen. As God as my bloody witness, I'm hell-bent on making it work.
"This team is going to win a Super Bowl at some point."
Masai Ujiri, Brian Cashman: Magnificent Bastards
I don't get this
line of thinking. We made it to the playoffs with basically the same rotation. It was the lack of timely hitting that cut our season short, not the pitching. Just as these guys could be competitive, signing someone like Darvish could be a failure.
Romine!
What's not to get?
They made the playoffs because Garcia and Colon had miracle seasons they are unlikely to duplicate. What’s not to get about using available resources to improve the team during the offseason? I hate the idea of doing nothing when the Yankees were fortunate to be as good as they were in 2011 to begin with.
This wasn’t the ’27 Yankees. There are always ways to get better. I just think that they have resources available, and rather than just pocketing them I want to see them use those resources to improve. Why do you reject the idea of improving the team in the offseason?
And as I’ve said already, I wouldn’t support signing Yu if I didn’t think he was going to be successful. I don’t think he’s a question mark. I think he’s that good. If I didn’t think he was that good or I thought he was a question mark in any way, I’d want to stay away from him.
Let us all congratulate the Boston Red Sox for becoming the first World Champions in the history of sports to NOT make the postseason! Thats not easy to do!
Warren and Phelps aren't exactly projected to be top pitchers
They’re mid-rotation guys or back end guys. If Banuelos were ready or Betances were ready, then I’d agree with you. But they aren’t. And plugging Warren and Phelps into the rotation and hoping for the best is a much bigger question mark than getting Yu Darvish and plugging him in- and even people who are completely against signing him have to agree with that.
Adding Phelps or Warren just adds another question mark to the rotation. And with four question marks out of five, we’re going into the season just hoping for the best. Thats what they did this season and it worked out, but that doesn’t mean they should repeat it and see if it works again.
Let us all congratulate the Boston Red Sox for becoming the first World Champions in the history of sports to NOT make the postseason! Thats not easy to do!
Projections schmections
Performance matters and we won’t know till they are given a shot. Hardly any “aces” were projected to be so just as many who were turn out to be something much less.
Romine!
Projections tell us what people think they are capable of
Yea results matter, but if we don’t have any results, I’d much rather have someone projected to be an ace than someone projected to be a back end guy.
I want to give these guys a shot, but I feel there are too many question marks in the rotation to do so at this point. Winning should be the most important thing. I just don’t like the idea of putting another big question mark into a rotation that is already full of them. Especially since the guys to plug in aren’t top notch prospects.
Let us all congratulate the Boston Red Sox for becoming the first World Champions in the history of sports to NOT make the postseason! Thats not easy to do!
I understand, but like I wrote below; Why develop these guys when we seem afraid to let them have a shot?
Romine!
If they truly want to give them a shot
Then I’d rather they plug them in for one of the rotations big question marks, rather than plug them into the final spot. I feel one more legitimate name is needed, whether it’s signing Darvish or looking in the trade market.
Obviously the most likely candidate for something like that would be Hughes, since he could make the transition to the pen easier than anyone else and he can be traded if they can get something for him too. And to be honest, I wouldn’t be against possibly trading Hughes and seeing what they could get, signing Darvish and/or making a trade and then having Phelps and Warren compete for the fifth spot.
Let us all congratulate the Boston Red Sox for becoming the first World Champions in the history of sports to NOT make the postseason! Thats not easy to do!
legitimate name? were playing the name game?
Ivan Nova isn’t a name. Give me Nova over Buerhle. Who cares that they’re a nice warm and cozy name we can tuck into bed and make ourselves feel all nice and cozy. If a low risk unknown can deliver, sick his ass in the rotation
Legitimate pitcher is what I meant.
And I view Yu Darvish as a guy who can really help this team in 2012 if signed, regardless of what you think of him. Same goes for guys that can be acquired in the trade market if they fail to get Darvish.
Let us all congratulate the Boston Red Sox for becoming the first World Champions in the history of sports to NOT make the postseason! Thats not easy to do!
but you'd be paying Darvish much mor than Warren or Phelps
Romine Sucks , Jesus is better end of story
You might be paying more for Darvish than any pitcher ever with the exception of CC.
Contributing writer for Pinstripe Alley.
Follow me on Twitter @frankiecamp48
by Frank Campagnola on Nov 11, 2011 7:05 PM EST up reply actions
exactly thats why he is a risky propostion
C.C was already established in the league Darvish has great potenial but could be a terrible bust but if Warren or Phelps pitches well you could have good rotation at much cheaper price
Romine Sucks , Jesus is better end of story
You guys are forgetting
Some here don’t care about the money. When you look at it that way (I am not one who does) it makes sense. For some reason, some people think the Yankees feel the way they do. They proved last season that money does matter.
Romine!
Some here
some people
Rec Generating Database
Jedi Master A-Rod is a poster on Pinstripe Alley. He can be reached by clicking the "Reply" button below his comments.
by Jedi Master A-Rod on Nov 11, 2011 7:14 PM EST up reply actions
Last season they were prepared to break the bank for Cliff Lee. They didn’t go into the offseason planning on the cheap, low risk signings. It happened because they really had no other option and they are fortunate that it worked out. I just don’t think they should be relying on it to work again.
Let us all congratulate the Boston Red Sox for becoming the first World Champions in the history of sports to NOT make the postseason! Thats not easy to do!
Well there's something in that I suppose
We’ll see what happens. I just hope this team does whatever they think is necessary to put themselves in position to win a championship. I feel Yu Darvish is the best way to go about that, but whatever they end up doing I just hope it works out.
Let us all congratulate the Boston Red Sox for becoming the first World Champions in the history of sports to NOT make the postseason! Thats not easy to do!
Yu Darvish is the biggest question mark
if Warren fails, he fails making league minimum and we replace him with Phelps (or vise versa). We also have Noesi hanging around
If Darvish fails than were stuck with a giant contract that will keep him in the rotation regardless of how he performs. Even if he performs, he’d still have to perform well enough to make the contract worth it.
Who is the bigger risk? I’d rather see Warren/Phelps/Noesi
I'd rather see Yu Darvish
Because I don’t see him as a big risk. I see him as a guy who’s going to have success. If I didn’t believe so strongly that he was going to be good, I wouldn’t want him.
Let us all congratulate the Boston Red Sox for becoming the first World Champions in the history of sports to NOT make the postseason! Thats not easy to do!
And you are confusing question mark with risk
Yu Darvish is a much better pitcher than Phelps and Warren, and therefore has a much better chance of having success. That makes him less of a question mark.
The money involved in getting Darvish makes it a bigger risk if thats how you want to think of it, but not a bigger question mark. And while it is a risk, I feel the upside and rewards that I think is likely to come with it makes the risk worth taking.
Let us all congratulate the Boston Red Sox for becoming the first World Champions in the history of sports to NOT make the postseason! Thats not easy to do!
Just like Nova?
The Yankees don’t NEED a front of the line pitcher right now. What they need is to fill out the back end of the rotation with innings eaters who will keep the team in the game. That means someone like Garcia, Noesi, Phelps, or Warren. If they could get a front of the line pitcher that would be great but its not necessary for them to win in 2012.
I sure don’t. Garcia is unlikely to repeat his 2011 success. Hughes is a mystery that have no faith in, neither do i believe in AJ. Nova was good in 2011 but i think he over-preformed, but will still be good…but not 2011 good. And CC is well CC, but it would nice to have a security blanket in case something happens.
See,
I think Garcia would be just as good and maybe even better after having been adjusted to pitching in YS. I think Nova will be just as good and maybe even better. Why would he regress? History shows pitchers of his caliber get better with experience, not worse. I think Hughes is the one who is the box of chocolates. I do think we need to get Phelps and Warren some starts, too. We have to find out what they can do. AJ can’t possibly get worse, can he?
Romine!
Because Garcia last year posted his best numbers since 2001…which makes me think he’s unlikely to preform up that standard next year. Not to mention he’s older and still a injury risk. Nova over-preformed because well despite his success he still has a lot of things to improve on such as his walk rate…which was really bad. Also there’s a possibility of a sophomore slump and hitting the proverbial wall next year. He was never projected to be anything more than a middle of the rotation guy so there is a question of where his potential is at. Phelps and Warren are basically a flip of a coin. Our rotation was really saved this year thanks to Colon’s revival. Warren and Phelps combined are unlikely to match up to what colon gave us.
Okay. Back to your thoughts on Phelps and Warren and any other prospects we have in our system. With this kind of thinking, none of them are ever going to get a shot. What’s the point of developing pitching in the minors if we’re going to act scared to give them a chance?
Romine!
Depth, trade pieces, etc
Phelps and Warren aren’t exactly projected to be top of the rotation guys, so i hesitate to value them over a person with a higher possible potential or one who has had pass success. If the B’s were any close to ready i might be more inclined to side with you, but they aren’t. Warren and Phelps would be useful if Hughes/AJ continues to falter or if anyone got injured. But i would not award them a spot when there are better options available on the market.
How many "top of the rotation"
were considered to be such while they were in the minors? How many who were turned out to be failures? We have got to find out and the only way to find out is to pitch them.
Romine!
Usually you have a better chance of getting a top of a rotation guy from someone who scouts find to have the upside. By no means is it guaranteed, but you have better luck finding a potentially good pitcher from Top pitching prospects than trying to catching lightning in a bottle with middle tier prospects. And plenty of Aces right now were once top prospects. If you look at the list of the top pitchers in the game right now, a lot of them have one point been a top prospect in an organization. You are less likely to find a guy like say a Cliff Lee, who never was expected to be much turning into an Ace.
Ivan Nova came out of nowhere
we gave him a chance and everything worked out, perhaps Phelps and Warren can succeed the same way. If not, then we can always find someone else
Of we can fine someone else first and then rely on warren and Phelps when we really need to. Trust me every season there will be pitching issues and they will have their chance. But to rely on them from the start would not be preferable.
I wouldn’t mind relying on one (or more) of them filling the 5th slot. Between those two and Noesi one of them is bound to find adequate success.
Romine!
AJ wasn't that bad
One horrendous month and an incredibly inflated HR rate describes his season, but he did a lot of things right and I think it’s reasonable to think he could bounce back next year.
I’m just doubtful that Garcia can repeat his 2011 success, and Hughes and AJ remain question marks. Even Nova is a young pitcher who may see regression. We just don’t know.
Let us all congratulate the Boston Red Sox for becoming the first World Champions in the history of sports to NOT make the postseason! Thats not easy to do!
I feel like the first part of this comment can be used for the previous 2 offseasons.
Stainer of mountaintops.
by Chairman Meow on Nov 11, 2011 5:18 PM EST up reply actions
No, it can't
2010 was an awful year. He didn’t strike anybody out, the fly ball rate was incredibly high, and after May he really was not good at all.
2011 he had very good peripherals outside of the HR rate, had only one really awful month instead of the multiple the year before, and at the end of the season he changed mechanics and it led to strong results. He didn’t finish the season strong at all in 2010, but he did in 2011. I want to see if he can carry that over.
Let us all congratulate the Boston Red Sox for becoming the first World Champions in the history of sports to NOT make the postseason! Thats not easy to do!
Yeah, I guess you're right.
It just seems like every offseason, the AJ dick-riders defend him to the death, including his bad stats.
Note—I am neither an AJ dick-rider nor an AJ hater. I’m somewhere in between (leaning more towards dick-rider though)
Stainer of mountaintops.
by Chairman Meow on Nov 11, 2011 5:37 PM EST up reply actions
There was nothing to defend last year in terms of stats
I defended him last year because I felt the season was an outlier and he’d be able to bounce back with a new pitching coach. It was nothing but my gut telling me he was going to do well.
This year, I’m looking at the strong way he finished the season after he worked on his delivery. He curve had much more bite and he was working more down in the zone. I just want to see if he can carry it over to next year.
Let us all congratulate the Boston Red Sox for becoming the first World Champions in the history of sports to NOT make the postseason! Thats not easy to do!
The ONLY logical thing to do then
is to trade him for Javy Vasquez.
That’ll solve everything.
I don't
Tolo and Garcia were ~3 win pitchers last year which kept us competitive. I could see Nova, Burnett, Hughes, and Warren/Phelps all not perform and give us one of the worst rotations in baseball.
If all those pitchers tank
one other pitcher who may or may not be a sure thing isn’t going to really help them.
So you think we should sign
Buehrle? Wilson? Cuz if you’re going to tell me Darvish, he could be a bigger bust, for one season at least, than any of the alternatives.
Romine!
My ideal scenario we "Derek Lowe" AJ Burnett and sign Darvish and Jackson
AJ and Hughes might end up having ERA/FIP’s near 5 so I think we should try to sign two pitchers.
I’d like to see Garcia and Buehrle in the rotation and have Phelps and Warren get some starts and by the call up give Betances and Banuelos some starts so they’re ready to go in ’13.
Romine!
Don't think there are enough rotation spots for all of them
Even if they don’t get Darvish. AJ’s going nowhere until after 2013, so unless you are predicting Hughes somehow ends up in the bullpen (which I admit is a possibility), I don’t see how both Betances and Banuelos would be ready to go in ’13.
Let us all congratulate the Boston Red Sox for becoming the first World Champions in the history of sports to NOT make the postseason! Thats not easy to do!
Yes, I think
Hughes will end up in the pen. Probably before June, if not sooner. I just think he’s more fit to be a reliever.
Romine!
I hope not
But if he sucks like last year and can’t put guys away, then it might be the right move. Or the only move.
Let us all congratulate the Boston Red Sox for becoming the first World Champions in the history of sports to NOT make the postseason! Thats not easy to do!
Wonder how much is Cash gonna pay Nobody? Sounds like he wants a big contract.
Crouching moron, hidden smarta**
Optimism, pessimism, F*CK THAT; we're gonna make it happen. As God as my bloody witness, I'm hell-bent on making it work.
"This team is going to win a Super Bowl at some point."
Masai Ujiri, Brian Cashman: Magnificent Bastards
But but but...
…the Yankees need to sign more pitchers. And outfielders. And DH’s. And first basemen.
Now that the Phillies are a lock to win the next 5 World Series because they signed Papelbon, how will the Yankees survive???
Doomed.
Just once I'd like someone to call me "Sir," without adding, "You're making a scene."
The rotation currenty is
CC-AJ-Nova-Hughes-???
Now, there’s a chance that they perform well or a minor leaguer does a good job. But counting on a rotation with so many question marks in no way puts the Yankees in a good position to compete in 2012. They could, but doing what they can to make the rotation stronger in 2012 so they have a better chance at winning a championship should be the main goal.
Doing nothing doesn’t help. The Yankees were where they were in 2011 because they caught lightning in a bottle with Colon and Garcia. Imagine if they sucked like so many predicted where the Yankees would be. This offseason there are both free agent and trading opportunities for them to improve. I think they should be doing what they can to improve the ir rotation for 2012.
Let us all congratulate the Boston Red Sox for becoming the first World Champions in the history of sports to NOT make the postseason! Thats not easy to do!
A lot of things would have to go right in the rotation again for the Yankees.
You would have to have AJ Burnett be better, Hughes rebound, and Garcia put up the same performance from last season. It just isn’t likely.
I'm all for this
I was expecting Yu Darvish, what a twist! I’m so freaking tired of hearing about Yu Darvish. I honestly could care less who he goes to.
How much less?
Jesus Montero fangirl
by WhatwouldJeterdo on Nov 11, 2011 5:18 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
fianlly someone sees the damn light
Romine Sucks , Jesus is better end of story
K/9 really needs improvement though.
Stainer of mountaintops.
by Chairman Meow on Nov 11, 2011 5:16 PM EST up reply actions
are you kidding me, Bowtie?
Sources: #Marlins have made substantial offers to both Reyes and Pujols.
If this is true, what the hell have the Marlins been waiting for this whole time!?
The spinning gaudy HR Marlin
"WHO WOULD LEAD?! THE CLOWN?!"
by I'mGivingYouARaise on Nov 11, 2011 6:05 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
A new stadium
Rec Generating Database
Jedi Master A-Rod is a poster on Pinstripe Alley. He can be reached by clicking the "Reply" button below his comments.
by Jedi Master A-Rod on Nov 11, 2011 6:43 PM EST up reply actions
I’d prefer Sam Summer, a couch, and Yankees baseball on said boat.
Contributing writer for Pinstripe Alley.
Follow me on Twitter @frankiecamp48
by Frank Campagnola on Nov 11, 2011 7:08 PM EST up reply actions
Boom, this.
Go Heels!
Jesus Montero fangirl
by WhatwouldJeterdo on Nov 11, 2011 7:35 PM EST up reply actions
Barnes and Henson
are gonna be beasts in the NBA. Barnes gets a little shot happy at times, but the talent is there. 8 blocks for Henson tonight.
Romine!
Henson is fantastic.
Barnes does take a lot of shots, especially last season, but I’m hoping he grew out of some of that freshman-ness. He can still take over the game and almost single handedly win it (see: Clemson in ACC Tournament), so I can forgive him for most of his lesser traits.
I love Marshall, as well. I was yelling for him to take over the point pretty early on last year. Ridiculous upgrade over friggin Larry Drew. Ew.
Jesus Montero fangirl
by WhatwouldJeterdo on Nov 11, 2011 10:01 PM EST up reply actions
I'm getting paid to watch this UNC game
"WHO WOULD LEAD?! THE CLOWN?!"
by I'mGivingYouARaise on Nov 11, 2011 9:07 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
You mean the Michigan State game
I forget who my Spartans are playing. It doesn’t matter. It’s been too long already.
1. I think Miles Plumlee has a fade. 90s Jeter would like his haircut back.
2. They have thankfully found Wilson Ramos alive.
Jesus Montero fangirl
by WhatwouldJeterdo on Nov 11, 2011 9:58 PM EST reply actions
federal baseball has a post about it...doesn't sound to positive though
by MichaelGGBGrabow on Nov 11, 2011 10:05 PM EST up reply actions
http://twitter.com/#!/rafaelrojasc/status/135187031545487360 Tweet from the guy who broke the story of his kidnapping.
And here:
According to Rafael Rojas of Viva Colorado, Wilson Ramos has been found safely by authorities in Venezuela.
What a relief. The nature of his rescue isn’t clear, but the Venezuelan minister of information tweeted tonight that Ramos was found safely in the mountains. Gustavo Mercado, Ramos’ agent, has informed his family of the wonderful news. He is expected to be brought home soon.
Jesus Montero fangirl
by WhatwouldJeterdo on Nov 11, 2011 10:06 PM EST up reply actions
A post on Federal Baseball says he's receiving medical attention, but doesn't say to what extent.
Still very good news.
Jesus Montero fangirl
by WhatwouldJeterdo on Nov 11, 2011 10:13 PM EST up reply actions
kidnappers are known for being dicks
by long time listener on Nov 11, 2011 10:39 PM EST up reply actions
I'm sure there are exceptions to everything
Let us all congratulate the Boston Red Sox for becoming the first World Champions in the history of sports to NOT make the postseason! Thats not easy to do!
lets face it.....
if we dont make a move for a #2 or #3 starting pitcher this offseason or at the deadline, our chances of winning the world series in 2012 will be very slim and id almost go as far to say as i’d be shocked if we won it. with all that being said, im still OK with not making moves if it benefits down the line but let’s know the consequences…if we don’t make a move(probably going to end in dissapointment)
But... we make the playoffs - and the Sux don't (again)
Soooo… not a bad way to enter the tournament. Then all we gotta do is win 3 games to have ’12 better than ’11.
I love low standards. Makes achieving excellence easy.
Simple, inexpensive solution
Resign Garcia, then when he starts to run out of gas down the stretch, replace him with one of the Killer B’s (just like TB did with Moore).
by Arkansas Yankee on Nov 12, 2011 3:57 PM EST reply actions
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