New York Yankees News and Notes 11/11/11
by 3460kuri on Nov 11, 2011 6:00 AM EST
in New York Yankees News
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PrintThey just had to go there, didn't they:
It was Jorge Posada who first mentioned Bernie Williams last night. Posada said he’d been talking to Williams a lot this offseason — in fact, the two had talked earlier that day — and Williams was advising patience. He didn’t want Posada rushing to a decision, one way or the other, about whether to play next season.
I can't say that I would accept reality and retire with grace if I was in Posada's situation. But Bernie Williams is probably the last person he wants to be conversing this with right now. There is a World Baseball Classic coming up, and I don't want to see Posada playing in it......
The prospect of AJ Burnett playing elsewhere next season is more of a possibility than you probably think, and the Braves recent trade of Derek Lowe to the Indians would probably be the benchmark. After all:
Chien-Ming Wang, who has thrown 62.1 innings in the last two years, got a $4 million guarantee. While that deal itself doesn’t necessarily set the bar, the dearth of free agent pitching could certainly push up prices. If we look to last off-season as a guide, Jake Westbrook got two years at $16.5 million, as did Carl Pavano. Javy Vazquez, coming off an unimaginably bad season, got $7 mil. Those types of deals can happen when there’s not much pitching on the market.
If the Yankees ate enough of Burnett's salary that the new team would only be on the hook for around $5 million a season, I think they'd have some suitors.
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sure but....
what do the Yankees get? Are we getting prospects? Don’t need those, built to win now. Position players? Kind of set at every spot. What team is going to give up a better starting pitcher just for some salary help? Unless we sucker someone like Detroit did for Fister (still annoyed about that), I don’t see where this works out.
The artful muppet formerly known as KrmtDfrog.
Please read my sardonic wit and over-blown sense of self over at headkicklegend.com
by Cory Braiterman on Nov 11, 2011 8:11 AM EST reply actions
what do the Yankees get?
A bag of balls would suffice. Honestly, simply getting rid of the headache that is AJ Burnett and get some other team to pick up a fraction of his salary is the goal.
Jesus Montero has to be a full-time catcher, or the Yankees have to trade him. One or the other. Based on the age and contracts of the other players on this team, that's the only place he fits long-term on the Yankees roster.
No it's not
You’re getting rid of a pitcher who at the very least will provide innings and strike out a lot of guys as a back end starter. 200 innings aren’t easy to replace. I don’t care if he’s the #5 starter- he’s going to give more value to the Yankees than anybody they get for him will. And seeing as they’re paying him anyways, it makes no sense to trade him.
Let us all congratulate the Boston Red Sox for becoming the first World Champions in the history of sports to NOT make the postseason! Thats not easy to do!
no. so very wrong. no.
If that’s a team in 4th place, wanting to build for the future, sure. This team had the best record in the AL last year. You don’t ship the #3 pitcher in your lineup for some salary relief when you’re the Yankees. That’s just dumb.
The artful muppet formerly known as KrmtDfrog.
Please read my sardonic wit and over-blown sense of self over at headkicklegend.com
by Cory Braiterman on Nov 11, 2011 12:17 PM EST up reply actions
+1
Contributing writer for Pinstripe Alley.
Follow me on Twitter @frankiecamp48
by Frank Campagnola on Nov 11, 2011 2:19 PM EST up reply actions
I expect better from someone that works here
Trading the #3 pitcher on your contending team for abs nothing is stupid.
The artful muppet formerly known as KrmtDfrog.
Please read my sardonic wit and over-blown sense of self over at headkicklegend.com
by Cory Braiterman on Nov 11, 2011 3:12 PM EST up reply actions
The fact that Burnett is the Yankees #3 has more to do with his salary and name recognition than his actual talent.
His ERA is over 5.00 in close to 500 innings since the second half of the 2009 season. If that pitcher is your #3 starter, and you’re planning on contending……something isn’t right.
If he’s your #5 starter, well, #5 starters are usually replaced when they don’t pitch well. Burnett hasn’t pitched well in a long time.
I would rather be rid of the headaches and personally would DFA him, but if some team is willing to pick up a small piece of a salary you’d otherwise DFA, great.
Jesus Montero has to be a full-time catcher, or the Yankees have to trade him. One or the other. Based on the age and contracts of the other players on this team, that's the only place he fits long-term on the Yankees roster.
3460kuri works here, too. And his thoughts in his response to you echo mine.
Contributing writer for Pinstripe Alley.
Follow me on Twitter @frankiecamp48
by Frank Campagnola on Nov 11, 2011 6:47 PM EST up reply actions
Are we getting prospects? Don’t need those, built to win now
lol
Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows
yankee fans are obsessed with stahting pitchahs,.
Crouching moron, hidden smarta**
Optimism, pessimism, F*CK THAT; we're gonna make it happen. As God as my bloody witness, I'm hell-bent on making it work.
"This team is going to win a Super Bowl at some point."
Masai Ujiri, Brian Cashman: Magnificent Bastards
So you're willing to trade your #3 starter
for prospects when they were in the playoffs this year and had the best record in the AL? Clearly we have different ideas of where the Yankees should go in 2012.
The artful muppet formerly known as KrmtDfrog.
Please read my sardonic wit and over-blown sense of self over at headkicklegend.com
by Cory Braiterman on Nov 11, 2011 12:15 PM EST up reply actions
If you go by effectiveness he was our #6 starter. Just because he played for a good team doesn’t mean he was any good.
Yes, that is Spike Lee.
by TheRealSlimShady on Nov 11, 2011 12:59 PM EST up reply actions
Put aside that one terrrrrrrrrrrrrrible month
and he had a 4 era and pitched 168 innings of not completely awful ball. Y’all are not thinking clearly at all. We get jack shit for him in exchange and get to rely on untested rookies. This is knee-jerk reaction that is best suited to idiots calling up WFAN to have a bitchfest with Francesca.
The artful muppet formerly known as KrmtDfrog.
Please read my sardonic wit and over-blown sense of self over at headkicklegend.com
by Cory Braiterman on Nov 11, 2011 3:10 PM EST up reply actions
Dude, cut the crap
No need to belittle others’ opinions here. You’re starting to sound like a couple other jerks who post here.
Romine!
sure
refute me with facts and logic. Not ignoring facts and spouting nonsense that MIKEY FROM RAHWAY HEEYUH would spew. Tell me a realistic scenario where we’ve got a replacement who can give 170 innings of 4 ERA ball and I’ll pipe down. Come tell me this after the NYY sign Darvish and Beuhrle, and then yes, he’s expendable and we can dump him for peanuts.
Right now, this is just silly beyond measure. 6th starter my cheek.
The artful muppet formerly known as KrmtDfrog.
Please read my sardonic wit and over-blown sense of self over at headkicklegend.com
by Cory Braiterman on Nov 11, 2011 3:49 PM EST up reply actions
I agree
AJ’s season was better than his numbers showed and the peripherals were actually pretty good. The problem was his one horrendous month and a HR rate that was inflated to 17% for the year. That is simply not a number that can be sustained. He also had much better results after changing his mechanics and I want to see if he can keep that up next year.
And I’d rather have Darvish and AJ rather than Darvish and Buehrle while having to pay AJ’s contract.
Let us all congratulate the Boston Red Sox for becoming the first World Champions in the history of sports to NOT make the postseason! Thats not easy to do!
You could make the argument that not only can he sustain his horrible home run rate, but that it can get worse, seeign as it has gotten worse every year since he joined this team, and he’s another year older.
Contributing writer for Pinstripe Alley.
Follow me on Twitter @frankiecamp48
by Frank Campagnola on Nov 11, 2011 11:26 PM EST up reply actions
An encore conversation
It seems like we had this same conversation around this time last year with AJ’s supporters “hoping” he would turn things around in 2011. The fact is, even if one tries to “even things out” by claiming it was just the one horrendous month, he really didn’t have a good year. I’d like to see the number of starts he had where he left before the 5th inning and had completely taken us out of the game. He is supposed to be our Number 2 starter and, even though Nova had a great year last year, whether or not he repeats is clearly a big question. He just doesn’t have a track record yet.
As for AJ, though, he did have a track record before the Yankees signed him to this ridiculous contract. And his track record was really not that impressive …… certainly not for someone they are pegging as their #2 starter for 5 years (as they did at the time they offered him the contract). I do agree with some of the posters who contend that we shouldn’t essentially give him away for no value in return. On the other hand, I have no confidence whatsoever in his ability to be a steady and consistent starter. And …… he’s not getting any younger.
I don't think they should rely on him as a top of the rotation guy
But I liked the way he finished the season and I want to see if he can carry that over into next year. And I still believe he can at the very least be a solid back-end starter, which still has value. And if they’re going to pay him anyways, I’d rather he be in the rotation rather than paying him to be on another team.
You said you wanted to know how many of his starts he left before the 5th. AJ Burnett pitched at least 5 innings in 30 of his 33 starts this season and gave up 3 runs or less in 20 of his 33 starts. If you want to take out August, it becomes at least 5 innings in 30 of his 31 starts and 19 out of 28 games where it was 3 runs or less. Also, without August he only gave up more than 4 runs in a game twice. Take that however you want it.
Let us all congratulate the Boston Red Sox for becoming the first World Champions in the history of sports to NOT make the postseason! Thats not easy to do!
Thanks
That is helpful ….. thanks for posting the stats. One of the things that I think is critical for AJ (and maybe this doesn’t show up in the stats) is to be able to come right back after giving up an HR (or giving up a run or two through scattered hits) and limit the damage. It does appear to be a mental thing on his part in losing concentration if he gives up a run or two and then falling apart. He did have a couple games in September where he did this successfully. If he is able to break that pattern next year, I think he will do a lot towards becoming an effective starter.
He was a lot better at that in the first part of the season I noticed
He still gave up a lot of homers (and that isn’t going to change either), but he was able to limit the damage after that. Thats in contrast to August, where if he gave up a homer he showed flashes of 2010 and completely fell apart. The Chicago game, Minnesota game and the Baltimore game was evidence of that.
It’s all about limiting the damage if someone gets to him. We know that he’ll be fine if nobody gets to him, but he can’t have those 6 run innings and games where he gives up 7+ runs in 2 innings. Because even if those games are a rare occurrence, they’re enough to destroy your entire seasons stats.
Let us all congratulate the Boston Red Sox for becoming the first World Champions in the history of sports to NOT make the postseason! Thats not easy to do!
Agree with you ...
And it is not just a question of destroying the stats, I think when AJ has those types of games, Girardi (and possibly team members) start losing confidence in him. This causes Girardi to possibly pull him prematurely when he should still be able to give us 6 or 7 quality innings. If (and I know it’s a big “if”) …. AJ can settle down on that front, it would have a huge positive impact on next season across the board.
I'm not disputing
either of you. I’m just saying there is no reason to call people “idiots” and say they’re not thinking clearly. Regardless, don’t you think one of our prospects could do just as well if not better? I, for one, do. It doesn’t take much of a pitcher to put up those kinds of numbers. You’re cherry-picking certain portions of his season. I look at the overall results, and they’re not good.
Romine!
If Burnett could actually give us 170 Innings of 4 ERA ball, then we would have no problem. That one month still counts man.
Yes, that is Spike Lee.
by TheRealSlimShady on Nov 12, 2011 1:54 AM EST up reply actions
Thing is, you can’t just put away one month. That month happened.
One month is a 1/6th of a season, or nearly 17%. You can’t just make it disappear.
Contributing writer for Pinstripe Alley.
Follow me on Twitter @frankiecamp48
by Frank Campagnola on Nov 11, 2011 6:52 PM EST up reply actions
It didn't disappear
But some people are under the impression that AJ sucked the entire season, when really he was solid for the vast majority of the year. You can’t disregard the one month, but I also think it’s reasonable to say that the season was better than the numbers indicate.
Let us all congratulate the Boston Red Sox for becoming the first World Champions in the history of sports to NOT make the postseason! Thats not easy to do!
6th starter?
How the hell was Phil Hughes better than AJ in ANY way last season?
Let us all congratulate the Boston Red Sox for becoming the first World Champions in the history of sports to NOT make the postseason! Thats not easy to do!
Post-deadarm Phil Hughes.
Yes, that is Spike Lee.
by TheRealSlimShady on Nov 12, 2011 1:52 AM EST up reply actions
if Burnett's our #3 starter
….we can find another #3 starter.
Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows
good
let’s sign that guy and probably someone else first, then we can talk about replacing AJ with peanuts. Never thought I’d see the day I’d be DEFENDING AJ F’n Burnett, but here we are.
The artful muppet formerly known as KrmtDfrog.
Please read my sardonic wit and over-blown sense of self over at headkicklegend.com
by Cory Braiterman on Nov 11, 2011 7:46 PM EST up reply actions
What do the Yankees get?
A open spot for the rotation. I’d rather have a spot for Noesi/Warren than one for AJ.
And we DO need prospects, every team does.
Yes, that is Spike Lee.
by TheRealSlimShady on Nov 11, 2011 12:58 PM EST up reply actions
Context, foo
You don’t trade your #3 pitcher for prospects, especially when you have no one to take his place. Don’t take what I said out of context.
The artful muppet formerly known as KrmtDfrog.
Please read my sardonic wit and over-blown sense of self over at headkicklegend.com
by Cory Braiterman on Nov 11, 2011 3:11 PM EST up reply actions
that's not context
here’s context. If AJ Burnett’s your 3rd starter (and I’m not saying he is), then you might want another #3 starter.
Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows
We have people that CAN take his place
Yes, that is Spike Lee.
by TheRealSlimShady on Nov 12, 2011 1:51 AM EST up reply actions
The Yankees don't like to eat money for some reason
I can’t remember a lot of deals they’ve made where they’ve done that, especially not the amount they’d have to eat to move Burnett.
Also the 2nd year on AJ’s contract is a deterrent. Lowe only has a year left. I don’t think there would be many teams willing to take him for 2/10 even.
The best bet to move him would be to take on someone else’s equally bad contract who might be more likely to perform well here. Jason Bay would be my pick for that, but I would think the Mets would be reluctant to make that trade now that they’ve moved the fences in.
by Let's Talk About Tex Baby on Nov 11, 2011 8:20 AM EST reply actions
As for Jorge...
Playing major league baseball is pretty much the best job in the world. It’s not an easy thing to give up for a lot of guys. The Yankees have no spot for him, and they shouldn’t damage their roster by signing him just to “honor his legacy” but I’d have no ill will toward Jorge if he’s able to keep playing somewhere else. Him putting on a Marlins uniform for a year isn’t going to change what he did as a Yankee.
The Bernie Williams situation was a bit different because the Yankees DID have a role for him as a right-handed DH/part-time corner OF. (Bernie had a .926 OPS batting right handed in 2006). The Yankees inexplicably decided that role could be better filled by Josh Phelps. Bernie had a right to be angry. I was angry.
by Let's Talk About Tex Baby on Nov 11, 2011 8:26 AM EST reply actions
Yankees don't eat money on contracts, they're afraid that it sets a dangerous precedent.
Kind of like the whole “no extensions” deal too.
Plus the entire attitude from the organization has been supportive of AJ. They reworked his mechanics in September and October, and he looked marginally better. Pretty sure Cashman and Girardi are going to give him more leash for next season….
We're short of starting pitching
i’m not in favor of trading a guy who is admittedly inconsistent, but has shown he can dominate when it counts. i think he’s earned more time in pinstripes.
Boone Logan signed a baseball for me. David Robertson signed a glossy photo for me.
I don't want to see AJ traded
They’ll eat his salary- they’ll pay for him regardless. And they will get literally nothing back.
Keep him, plug him into the rotation and give him one more shot. He reworked his mechanics this year and finished the year pretty strong, so I’m curious to see if he can keep that throughout 2012.
Let us all congratulate the Boston Red Sox for becoming the first World Champions in the history of sports to NOT make the postseason! Thats not easy to do!
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