Afternoon Yankees Notes
by Frank Campagnola on Oct 27, 2011 2:51 PM EDT
in New York Yankees News
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Robinson Cano is, in fact, looking to re-work his deal. Scott Boras, Cano's agent, phoned GM Brian Cahsman about dropping the option years and re-working the deal, but Cashman has yet to return the call. It's worth noting that the Yankees hold relatively cheap options for Cano over the next two seasons given his production, so it wouldn't make much sense from a business aspect to remove those options.
However, keeping Cano off the open market does have its advantages. He's a second baseman with offensive numbers that are rarely seen from second basemen, so his price tag could get lofty once other teams can bid on his services. Despite this, Ken Rosenthal hears that it is "highly, highly unlikely" for the Yankees to do so.
The Yankees are considering free agent Carlos Beltran as a possible right fielder, so that could explain the hold up in exercising Nick Swisher's option for 2012. The way I look at it, the Yankees have two options if they sign Beltran.
Option 1: Decline Swisher's option, offer him arbitration, hope he declines, and take the compensation when he signs elsewhere. As a Type-A free agent, Swisher would bring back the signing team's highest non-protected pick and a compensation round pick.
Option 2: Pick up his option and trade him for prospects. However, option two would be risky, as I'm not sure the Yankees would have much leverage in this situation.
Finally, Cashman's contract is "just about" complete and the deal could be announced just after the World Series ends. The deal is believed to be for at least three years.
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I really, really, really, really, really, really, really do not want the Yankees to sign Beltran and let Swisher go.
Follow me on twitter @nyybrandonc
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This
"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring." --Rogers Hornsby
by Chris McKeown on Oct 27, 2011 2:58 PM EDT up reply actions
+1…id take the guy hitting .270 who is bever hurt yhen the guy who can hit .285-.290 and is almost never on the field
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by NYYWinsRings27 on Oct 27, 2011 4:03 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Frankly, I think Beltran is the better player. It would really depend on his contract for me.
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by Frank Campagnola on Oct 27, 2011 3:01 PM EDT up reply actions
I just think it’s a waste. Why must the Yankees get the best player at every position? Beltran stands a much bigger chance of getting injured, and Swisher is younger. It’s just not necessary.
Follow me on twitter @nyybrandonc
Writer/Editor for Pinstripe Alley, Blueshirt Banter
"No matter what I talk about, I always get back to baseball."
"Every day is a great day for hockey."
Well, aren’t you always looking for improvement? Why settle, especially if you have the resources to do it?
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by Frank Campagnola on Oct 27, 2011 3:16 PM EDT up reply actions
I think it's not just about getting the best player as much as it is the best fit.
Hard to deny that Swisher fits with this current team pretty damn well. Beltran may resurge, but would it really be THAT much of an upgrade? And do we think Beltran would be the kind of leader Swisher seems to be off the field?
"Madison Square Garden is the ultimate basketball stage. That's where I belong. That's where I live. That's the home of the New York Knicks." - Amar'e Stoudemire
by Chris Child's Fist on Oct 28, 2011 12:05 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree that Swisher is less injury-prone due to his relative youth when compared to Beltran, but Beltran is a better player. If they can get him relatively cheap, I’m all for it.
Besides, Beltran is now in right field as opposed to center, which is much less physically demanding. That will help keep him healthy, along with the occasional DH day.
Contributing writer for Pinstripe Alley.
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by Frank Campagnola on Oct 27, 2011 3:18 PM EDT up reply actions
He was injured last year for a bit.
And he missed most of 2009 and 2010 with injuries. Frankie, when are you going to realize that players in their late thirties who have been shown to be injury prone just aren’t going to be able to stay healthy for a full season?
Approximately eight warnings, a couple dozen censorships, and one ban in the last month and counting.
Making the switch to right field will help keep him healthy, as will the ability to DH in the AL.
Nice devli’s advocate, though. I actually appreciate that.
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by Frank Campagnola on Oct 27, 2011 3:41 PM EDT up reply actions
I just don’t think it’s necessary to take the risks when the reward is not even that big. Swisher is familiar with the team, is not a bad player by any means, and is definitely productive enough. Not necessary to make the change and spend the money.
Follow me on twitter @nyybrandonc
Writer/Editor for Pinstripe Alley, Blueshirt Banter
"No matter what I talk about, I always get back to baseball."
"Every day is a great day for hockey."
Understandable.
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by Frank Campagnola on Oct 27, 2011 3:42 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah - if they could get Beltran for two years at the same price as Swisher's option, I'd be all over it
And I say that as a Swisher fan. But I wouldn’t go longer than two years for Beltran, and I wouldn’t go that much more $$ than Swish would get.
Two years is my max on Beltran, and I wouldn’t go over $30M total.
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by Frank Campagnola on Oct 27, 2011 3:19 PM EDT up reply actions
$15 million per for Beltran is pretty generous. I’m sure Scott Boras will end up demanding more than two years for him as well.
"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring." --Rogers Hornsby
by Chris McKeown on Oct 27, 2011 3:24 PM EDT up reply actions
Based on the recent market, I’m not sure he can expect more than two year for a guy entering his age 35 season.
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by Frank Campagnola on Oct 27, 2011 3:26 PM EDT up reply actions
The market for RFs is also pretty thin after Beltran. I’m not sure if there’s a team out there that’s foolish enough to accept anything longer than two years, but it wouldn’t surprise me. If that’s the case, the money per season would certainly decrease. Two years, $25 million seems more than fair for Beltran.
"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring." --Rogers Hornsby
by Chris McKeown on Oct 27, 2011 3:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Beltran is coming off a year where he was worth $21.1M according to fangraphs. At $21.1M and a 4.7 WAR, that means 1 win is worth about $4.5M.
Assuming the half-win drop, he’d be about a 4.2 WAR player in 2012 and a 3.7 WAR player in 2013. Who knows, maybe he’s better with the Yanks because of the right-field porch and the ability to DH occasionally. Anyway, back to the numbers.
With those half-win drops, that means he’d be worth $18.9M in 2012 and $16.6 in 2013. My original contract estimates might actually underestimate what he’s worth on the open market.
Contributing writer for Pinstripe Alley.
Follow me on Twitter @frankiecamp48
by Frank Campagnola on Oct 27, 2011 3:34 PM EDT up reply actions
I suppose my philosophy is “If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it”. RF hasn’t been a problem in New York and I don’t see it as a position to necessarily look for a short-term, risky upgrade over what appears to be an intelligent option to pick up for Swisher.
Swisher’s first 56 games of the 2011 season weren’t strong: .219/.342/.349 with a .255 BABIP and merely 5 homers (15 total XBH).
After: 94 G, .284/.393/.506 and 18 homers.
In my personal opinion, New York should focus on upgrading elsewhere. While Beltran may possibly be an upgrade, I don’t think the risk/reward is worth it.
"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring." --Rogers Hornsby
by Chris McKeown on Oct 27, 2011 3:43 PM EDT up reply actions
The bottom line is his contract demands for me. If it’s too much, I say no. If it’s reasonable, I might take the risk.
And to play Devil’s Advocate, Pinstripe Alley wasn’t broke when Travis and John took us on as contributors. But they were looking for improvements and it looks like they got that, based on John’s extremely kind words toward our team.
There are clearly more pressing needs than RF, especially when they have a good one under contratc at a reasonable price. I guess the only place we really differ is the risk/reward aspect.
I think Beltran is a better player and could see improvements through coming to the AL.
That, and Beltran’s postseason numbers are outstanding, whereas Swisher’s aren’t. I’m not going to make judgments based on the small samples, but I do think the Yankees will take their postseason performances into account
Contributing writer for Pinstripe Alley.
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by Frank Campagnola on Oct 27, 2011 3:51 PM EDT up reply actions
very clever!
i like the self-promotion you snuck in there… but i think i lean more in brandon’s direction (where the swish/beltran issue is concerned): it’s just not a very high priority; swish is more likely to stay healthy (everything you said about right field and dh for beltran applies with equal force to swish, right?); and—gotta say it, so cover your ears—chemistry… !
by sing_or_die_1818 on Oct 27, 2011 10:55 PM EDT up reply actions
Beltran is better than Swisher
But Swisher is younger and much less likely to get injured. It depends on the cost. I support this ONLY if this will free up money and make them go after Yu Darvish. If they can sign Darvish while keeping Swisher or have no intention of going after Darvish regardless, then they’d be making a big mistake by letting Swisher go I think.
But I’m not convinced that Beltran will exactly be cheaper than Swisher is. I wouldn’t go any more than 2 years on him either. Since I don’t think it’s likely he would accept that, hang onto Swish.
Let us all congratulate the Boston Red Sox for becoming the first World Champions in the history of sports to NOT make the postseason! Thats not easy to do!
Beltran vs Swisher
I feel that Beltran now is a risk! Three or Four years ago would have loved getting him! Even though Beltran against all odds had a decent year, I am not convinced! Swisher on the other had is gonna give you 30 homers and 80 plus RBI’s and a improving defensive effort in right! The upside in the clubhouse and off the field is a huge underated plus for Swish! Let’s face we all love the guy! Don’t have to have a superstar at every position!
Strikeouts.
Approximately eight warnings, a couple dozen censorships, and one ban in the last month and counting.
I say we sign Beltran
And move Swisher TO TEH PEN!
"WHO WOULD LEAD?! THE CLOWN?!"
by I'mGivingYouARaise on Oct 27, 2011 3:40 PM EDT reply actions
I don’t understand the “You don’t have to have an all-star at every position” argument. Why wouldn’t you look for an upgrade when available? Especially when you have the resources?
I understand if you don’t think the Beltran risk is worth it, but to say no to him because you don’t think they "need: to sign him or it’s “unnecessary” seems silly.
For example, I can see where Brandon is coming from when he says he doesn’t think the risk/reward plus added salary is worth it.
Contributing writer for Pinstripe Alley.
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by Frank Campagnola on Oct 27, 2011 3:57 PM EDT reply actions
My argument against an All-Star at every position is that I don't think it's good for baseball.
Sure, Ryan Braun would be an improvement over GGBG in LF, but I’m a baseball fan first and I feel that the Yankees gobbling up every all-star available because “we’re the Yankees and we can afford it” is bad for the sport as a whole. All-star players are what brings a lot of fans to the game. Ryan Braun brings a lot of Brewers fans to the game. He’s the player they might cheer the loudest for. Braun jerseys are probably the ones that sell the most. The same goes for the Ryan Zimmerman’s, the Jose Reyes & David Wright’s, the Prince Fielder’s, and so on. So I hate the idea of taking that away from those fans just so we can put out an even better team than the consistent post-season making team we already have.
The reason I think we are truly fortunate to be Yankee fans is that we have the resources to keep the superstars we develop and the players that wind up excelling. Jeter, Posada, Mo and most likely soon Cano & who knows maybe Nova. If a Man-Ban comes up and turns into one of the best pitchers on the market, we can afford to keep him. He won’t even see the open market.
I’m not using this as a reason to not sign Beltran, mind you, cause I don’t think he’s that much of a superstar caliber player anymore. However, that is my reasoning for not wanting an all-star at every position. I feel it just makes the game less fun to watch.
"WHO WOULD LEAD?! THE CLOWN?!"
by I'mGivingYouARaise on Oct 27, 2011 4:34 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree with everything you just said
also rooting for people like Gardner, Nova and D-Rob make everything more exciting.
With so many resources available and his job on the line, do you really think Brian Cashman considers “what’s good for baseball” or do you think he considers “what’s good for the Yankees.”
I’m a Yankees fan first, so I want to see the franchise that I pay to see multiple times per season attempt to put the best product they can on the field.
Contributing writer for Pinstripe Alley.
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by Frank Campagnola on Oct 27, 2011 8:55 PM EDT up reply actions
Do you really think Cashman’s job is on the line? If he signs a new contract as expected in the next few days, I have a hard time believing this.
His job is alwas on the line. It’s a business. I wasnn’t implying that his job is on the line as of this second, I was implying that if there were times he ignored the potential of putting a better product on the field, his job would be on the line.
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by Frank Campagnola on Oct 27, 2011 10:13 PM EDT up reply actions
OK, I understand. And for the record, I agree with you about putting the best team on the field that you can. If other teams don’t want this to happen, they can outbid the Yankees. If MLB doesn’t like this, they can change the rules of the game. The Yankees aren’t breaking any rules, so why not take advantage of their strengths and sign everyone they can?
If I could add just a little bit to this...
I feel like I see both sides to this debate. Who wouldn’t a stacked Yankee team to watch every night? We would be excited and we would love it. Other fans might hate us, but they’ll be excited to root against the Yanks… I’m ok with that.
But, there is something special with having guys who can exceed expectations. Guys like Nova, Gardner and Cano and such. That certainly adds a huge deal of excitement. The Cards David Freese is a perfect example of that.
But most importantly… and i think Brandon may have had this in mind in his first response… it would be a valid assumption that to load up an “allstar at every position” would mean to balloon your payroll. Of course Yankee fans are used to the team spending whatever it takes… but we also know too well that simply spending the most money does not guarantee a World Series victory. These last two years have been perfect example of that too.
So I think we can at least agree that it’s just not as simple as “go get the best guy at each position.” And I think that is where a guy like Nick Swisher has an advantage over a Carlos Beltran. And that’s not a knock on Beltran at all.
"Madison Square Garden is the ultimate basketball stage. That's where I belong. That's where I live. That's the home of the New York Knicks." - Amar'e Stoudemire
by Chris Child's Fist on Oct 28, 2011 12:19 PM EDT up reply actions
With so many resources available and his job on the line, do you really think Brian Cashman considers "what’s good for baseball" or do you think he considers "what’s good for the Yankees."
I love that this has nothing at all to do with my point. But to answer your question, his job does not concern baseball as a whole, it concerns the Yankees. My point was why I, meaning me, I’mGivingYouARaise, feels that we shouldn’t have an All-Star at every position.
This is a franchise which already puts a team on the field that can make the postseason pretty much every single year. Every. single. year. I don’t know how much of a better product they could seriously put on the field without it being obnoxious. This is the only year in recent memory that it’s actually been a question whether or not we would make it or not. That’s a hell of a lot more exciting to me both as a Yankees fan and as a baseball fan. If we constantly get the best players available, at every single position, I just find that kinda boring.
"WHO WOULD LEAD?! THE CLOWN?!"
by I'mGivingYouARaise on Oct 28, 2011 1:45 AM EDT up reply actions
Then the point you were trying to make in your response had nothing to do with my original question.
I’m talking about upgrading when the option is available, and you’re saying don’t upgrade if the player is a franchise player for the other team.
All I’m saying is, if the upgrade is available, you look to upgrade.
Contributing writer for Pinstripe Alley.
Follow me on Twitter @frankiecamp48
by Frank Campagnola on Oct 28, 2011 5:47 PM EDT up reply actions
Carlos Beltran. Disagree????... read
and its all solely based off that if in the postseason we find ourselves down a run with a man on second and 2 outs in the bottom of the 9th, who do i want at the plate? nick swisher? or carlos beltran? i want carlos beltran. reasons??? well, i think we have one guy who has happened to be in the postseason quite a bit(124 at bats), which offers us a large sample size to determine what we should expect out of him in the postseason. this player is nick swisher. in 38 postseason games played swisher has SIX RBI’S with a .169 BA. im sorry i love swisher as much as the next guy but those #‘s are unacceptable. he has proven to me he cannot hit tough pitching and cannot hit in the postseason. in my mind beltran could have not played in a postseason game because he hasn’t proven what swisher has, and that’s that he can’t hit at all. thankfully beltran has been in the postseason and in 22 games he has 19 RBI’s with a .366 BA. I know most of those #‘s came in a single postseason but the bottomline is we know what we have in swisher in the postseason, let’s try something else(it can’t be worse). in terms of regular season i think beltran is very similar to swisher, but id choose beltran. nick swisher STRIKES OUT TOO MUCH. beltran is a more well rounded big league hitter who i would 100% want up in a big spot over swisher. defensively? i think swisher has been so much better defensively than we could have hoped but beltran to me has a better arm and more range. beltran to me is the change we need going into ’12.
STRIKEOUTS!
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Jedi Master A-Rod is a poster on Pinstripe Alley. He can be reached by clicking the "Reply" button below his comments.
by Jedi Master A-Rod on Oct 27, 2011 7:31 PM EDT up reply actions
You know, there are also 162 games played in the regular season and Nick Swisher has happened to put up some pretty good numbers in those games over the past three seasons. I’m also positive that the team’s success is not contingent solely on Swisher’s playoff performance. It takes 25 players to win in the postseason.
"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring." --Rogers Hornsby
by Chris McKeown on Oct 27, 2011 9:23 PM EDT up reply actions
obviously it wasn't all swish's fault
i never said that and never would put it on one player. im not that foolish. but in my mind swisher has proven he cannot hit in the postseason. and i dont mean get a hit, but make enough consistent contact against tough pitchers. he came up several times where making contact would have scored a run, he couldn’t do it. " there are also 162 games played in the regular season and Nick Swisher has happened to put up some pretty good numbers in those games ". i agree the regular season is important im not going to say it isn’t but i dont think beltran would hurt us in the regular season. im sick of having guys who perform in the regular season and dont perform in the playoffs. it’s the opposite of the teams we used to have when guys would up their play in october. i think beltran gives us the best chance to win in october. that should be our focus. when we lose in the ALDS and swish hits his postseason career avg. of .190, lets not say how could we have guessed our potent regular season hitters could let us down again. we have a chance to replace one of them, lets do it.
yup
strikeouts are mentioned in there and it’s very important and probably the main thing that makes me believe swisher isn’t as dependable a hitter
Well that’s a shame
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Jedi Master A-Rod is a poster on Pinstripe Alley. He can be reached by clicking the "Reply" button below his comments.
by Jedi Master A-Rod on Oct 27, 2011 7:52 PM EDT up reply actions
Grandy set a team record for strikeouts this year and was our MVP, so...
Jesus Montero fangirl
by WhatwouldJeterdo on Oct 27, 2011 9:51 PM EDT up reply actions
Well, I disagree
Nobody comes through every time. And Grandy definitely cooled off towards the end of the season a little bit. But I think most people would agree that if a player can hit to a decent BA/OBP/SLG line, who cares how he makes the outs when he makes outs? As long as they’re not double plays. Yes, I’d rather see a sacrifice fly than a strike out. But for some players, a higher K rate is just part of the package. You’d prefer no Ks, but that’s not realistic. Sometimes, it happens. Sometimes when it happens, it’s in a high leverage situation – and those are the ones that stick in your memory. To the point that they can really skew your perception of the player in question.
i accept grandy’s SO’s because i understand how great of a year he has had but everything plays a role in formulating an opinion on a player and SO’s is just one of them, and i think his .260avg had a lot to do with that. but in the swish/beltran debate, when 2 hitters should be reasonably similar in the regular season, and one has totally fallen on his face in the postseason, i think its reasonable to go with the other. while im not saying oh my god beltran strikes out less go get him, it’s a combination of one player doing the very minimum in the postseason, and me feeling this team has became one that SO’s quite a bit for an elite offense and wanting to atleast try and go in a different direction with RF. arod, tex, swish, grandy to me for such an elite group of hitters k way too much right in the heart of our lineup. i realize we most likely wont get beltran, but it’s a move i would like to see
it is NOT just SO's
however i would argue grandy didnt have as good a year as some may think because of the amount of strikeouts he had. BUTits not just strikeouts. but if two players have similar stats and one k’s alot, i tend to take the guy who has productive outs in place of strikeouts. this isn’t some ground breaking theory i have formulated, these are common baseball concepts. i would prefer beltran because i think he will be just as good as swish in the regular season if not better and MAINLY because swish has shown us he cant hit in the postseason….why did we get knocked out of the playoffs? because we didnt hit. im not saying its all his fault(obvi it isnt) but to say we shouldnt make a move because it isnt ALL his fault is ridiculous.
Hey man, I see that you’re not a very active member here. I’d just like to point out that during discussions, please use the reply button under the comment you want to respond to.
You’ll get a new box that says “Post A Reply” and that will make your discussions way easier to follow.
Contributing writer for Pinstripe Alley.
Follow me on Twitter @frankiecamp48
by Frank Campagnola on Oct 27, 2011 10:51 PM EDT up reply actions
Thing is... the playoffs are never the same.
Just as Beltran hit .322 in the ‘04/’06 post-season, what guarantee do you have that he will do the same next season?
Who forsaw ARod having the postseason in ’09 that he did? Sure, we were expecting him to be better in past years and he finally came through… but what guarantees were there?
Keep in mind you just compared 124 Swisher at bats to Baltran’s 82… and those 82 atbats were from 2004 and 2006… 5 and 7 years ago. And both of those came before his rash of injuries the last couple years.
I would say that given how different a player Beltran is now, we have even LESS of an idea of what he can do in the playoffs. But, hey, let’s pay him more than Nick Swisher anyways? Are you sure about that??
"Madison Square Garden is the ultimate basketball stage. That's where I belong. That's where I live. That's the home of the New York Knicks." - Amar'e Stoudemire
by Chris Child's Fist on Oct 28, 2011 12:35 PM EDT up reply actions
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