New York Yankees News and Notes: CC Sabathia and the Tampa Meeting

by Frank Campagnola on Oct 27, 2011 6:00 AM EDT in New York Yankees News

Good morning, Pinstripe Alley readers. Finally, we have something to talk about when it comes to Yankees baseball.

Word leaked yesterday that the Yankees would like to sign CC Sabathia before his opt-out date arrives. And, according to David Waldstein of the New York Times, the Yanks are close to completing a new offer for him.

George A. King III says the Yankees are "believed to be OK with a five- or six-year deal for an obvious raise over his current $23 million a year." As I pointed out earlier in the week, something in the area 6 years, $25M per year could be a likely contract.

The sooner they get their ace locked up, the sooner they can begin working toward the rest of their offseason. Speaking of...

Wallace Matthews of ESPN reported last night that the Yankees held their annual organizational meeting in Tampa, Florida. The meeting was attended by Hal Steinbrenner, Brian Cashman, Randy Levine, assistant GM Jean Afterman, Mark Newman, Billy Eppler, and Gene Michael, among others.

CC Sabathia was the talk of the meeting, which lasted about 6 1/2 hours. Also among the discussions were Cashman's contract status, which is "very close" to completion, and Nick Swisher's $10.25M option for 2012.

According to a source, who remained anonymous, "No decision on Swisher has been made yet." I wonder what the hold up is.

Additionally, the Yankees also discussed the free agent pitching class, which will include high profile names such as C.J. Wilson and Roy Oswalt.

No further meetings were planned.

Questions for the day:

How many years would you be willing to go for CC Sabathia? Most would probably want to stop at five, but if he reaches the open market and has other potential suitors, six years probably becomes necessary to sign him.
What are your thoughts on C.J. Wilson? His arm doesn't have too much mileage on it, but the big increase in innings over the last two seasons worries me.
How about your thoughts on Roy Oswalt? He spent a lot of 2011 on the disabled list, so he may not get a big deal. My early estimates on him are 2 years, ~ $25M, with the possibility for a third option year. Also, though he is a Type A free agent, I highly doubt he is offered arbitration, as he'd be in line for way too much money. Would you be interested?
Finally, Ben Nicholson-Smith of MLB Trade Rumors penned his Yankees' "Offseason Outlook." Of what he discussed, what would you be interested in?

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Yes to Oswalt

As long as its not a huge deal. The 2 years 25 you mentioned sounds about right for him.

by Super Nova Is My Hero on Oct 27, 2011 7:32 AM EDT reply actions

Really? $12.5mil for Oswalt?

That’s paying him like he is an ace. Do we think he is an ace or a guy in decline who is still a solid 2-3 rotation guy?? If we pay Oswalt over $10mil a year, I think that follows the same pattern as Randy Johnson, Carl Pavano, Kevin Brown, etc… overpaying for guys who are just past their best years.

Just asking for trouble…

"Madison Square Garden is the ultimate basketball stage. That's where I belong. That's where I live. That's the home of the New York Knicks." - Amar'e Stoudemire

by Chris Child's Fist on Oct 27, 2011 3:27 PM EDT up reply actions

$12.5mil is no longer ace money. That sounds about right for a slightly above-average pitcher. I think Oswalt falls under that category

by bloppy_ploppy on Oct 27, 2011 4:04 PM EDT up reply actions

Sabathia Signing and Other Options

For CC, I’d go 6 years $150M and possibly a 7th year vesting option if necessary. Because the Yankees still have a lot of guaranteed salaries in 2012 and 2013 I’d break up the salary at: $23, $23, $25, $25, $26 and $28. The 7th year option could be a relatively easy vesting option like innings pitched (I would add a clause that he’s not on the DL at the end of the 6th year for the vesting option to take effect). I’d go smaller say $18M and possible add in to that something similar to A-Rod’s “milestone” incentive with a $6M bonus for reaching 300 wins. That would make the value $150M guarantee or $168M plus potentially with the option year. I can’t imagine anyone beating those types of numbers on a contract.

As for Oswalt, I like Oswalt on at most a 2 year deal for $20M to $25M max. But my choice BEFORE Oswalt would be Mark Buehrle or possible a trade for Danks.

As for Wilson, I’d pass I think he is going to ask for and get to many dollars and years for my liking. I like Darvish at the “right” cost. For me that’s $85 to $95M combined posting fee and 5 year contract.

I also think the Yankees need another left handed bat on the bench. Just my thoughts.

by NY Baseball Fan on Oct 27, 2011 8:52 AM EDT reply actions

Odds are, they would break the salary up the opposite way

I don’t know how much they have tied up each year going forward, but it makes more sense to keep future salary lower. That way they have more to work with in signing future free agents. Plus, I’d rather not be paying a 36/7 year old pitcher $28 million!

by pastor2b on Oct 27, 2011 9:43 AM EDT up reply actions

CC Sabathia

Pastor, for a team like the Yankees with their revenue source as of today they have virtually no money committed to long term contracts after the 2013 season.
In 2014 – Committed payroll $71.5M (A-Rod, Tex, Jeter and CC’s current conract)
In 2015 – Committed payroll $66.5M (A-Rod, Tex and CC’s current contract)
In 2016 – Committed payroll $42.5M (A-Rod and Tex)
In 2017 – Committed payroll $20M (A-Rod only)

As you can see they can easily back load CC’s new contract with no effect on the teams ability to sign players in the future. For the Yankees with their revenue stream the above numbers would probably equate to ZERO ’long term committed" dollars if they were a mid market team. The Yankees can easily afford to take CC contract current expiration at the end of 2015 and extend him to the end of 2017 and back load it.

by NY Baseball Fan on Oct 27, 2011 9:57 AM EDT up reply actions

Heard a News Report

on the way to work, sorry no link on anything, that Boras is wanting to renegotiate Cano’s deal. The club has options for 2012 and 2013 but apparently Boras wants to try to negotiate a new long term deal.

"I don't want one of those guys who'll drive in two but let in three every game." Casey Stengel

by tnredneckyankeesfan on Oct 27, 2011 9:48 AM EDT reply actions

Only in sports can you tell your employer that you don't like your contract and expect them to change it

I highly doubt the Yankees will renegotiate. They haven’t done it before, and they have no reason to start now.

by pastor2b on Oct 27, 2011 10:31 AM EDT up reply actions

Agreed. Not gonna happen unless Robbie is taking a huge discount. I doubt that’s what Boras is hoping for.

"Have faith in the Yankees my son. Think of the great DiMaggio."
Pinstripe Alley | The Hometown Fan | @jscape2000

by jscape2000 on Oct 27, 2011 10:32 AM EDT up reply actions

You used

Boras client and discount in the same sentence. Funniest thing I’ve read all day.

"I don't want one of those guys who'll drive in two but let in three every game." Casey Stengel

by tnredneckyankeesfan on Oct 27, 2011 10:43 AM EDT up reply actions

Valid.

"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring." --Rogers Hornsby

@csm5206

by Chris McKeown on Oct 27, 2011 10:43 AM EDT up reply actions

not really

In a lot of jobs, if you’re doing really well you can ask for a raise. Most jobs don’t have contracts, but even where they do, people ask to re-negotiate when they’re doing well.

Having said that, I think the Yankees should stick to their policy of not negotiating this far in advance. Cano has no leverage now, and if puts up another great year in 2012 and the Yankees want to extend him, I’m fine with that.

by long time listener on Oct 27, 2011 10:43 AM EDT up reply actions

6 years is fine for CC

We have to prepare ourselves for the possibility that he may fade in the last two years, and hope that the Yankees plan accordingly and develop, sign, or trade for an ace that can take his place in a few years.

by long time listener on Oct 27, 2011 9:54 AM EDT reply actions

I've said it before, but I'll say it again here:

CC fading in the last couple years and still being paid like an ace will be perfectly acceptable. Between Nova, Hughes, Banuelos, Betances, Warren, Phelps, Noesi, and the rest of the pitching prospects I don’t know about, at least 3, if not 4 of them will be good major league starters (at least one as an ace) by 2016, but still be paid like mid- to back-of-the-rotation starters.

2012 Rotation:
CC, AJ, Nova, Hughes, Garcia, [Noesi in case of injury/ineffectiveness]

2013 Rotation:
CC, Nova, AJ, Hughes, Banuelos (Betances, Warren,…), [Noesi in case of injury/ineffectiveness]

2014/2015 Rotation:
CC, Nova, Hughes, Banuelos (Betances, Warren,…), Betances (Warren,…), [Noesi in case of injury/ineffectiveness]

2016/2017 Rotation
Nova, Hughes, CC, Banuelos, Betances (assuming CC becomes less effective)

by pastor2b on Oct 27, 2011 10:38 AM EDT up reply actions

if CC has three more years like his last three years

And then starts to decline, I’d be fine with the numbers people are throwing around, even if it means we’re overpaying him. There are reasons to structure the deal like you say above, but there are also reasons to backload it – if either of the remaining Killer Bs turns into the guy we’re hoping for, we’ll have them at something of a discount in their pre-free agency years, which would offset the greater salary for CC.

Also, I think it’s certain the Yankees are going to sign someone else for the rotation next year. Maybe they’ll go for the big splash with CJ or Darvish, or something smaller with Buehrle or Oswalt, but I don’t think the 2012 is going to be CC, AJ, Nova, Hughes, Garcia.

by long time listener on Oct 27, 2011 11:16 AM EDT up reply actions

Agree with your last comment

I couldn’t agree more with your last comment. I don’t see the Yankees heading into the 2012 season with a rotation of: CC, AJ, Nova, Hughes and Garcia. If they do they have resigned themselves to a very early exit in the 2012 post season if they make it there.

by NY Baseball Fan on Oct 27, 2011 11:28 AM EDT up reply actions

I don’t see the Yankees heading into the 2012 season with a rotation of: CC, AJ, Nova, Hughes and Garcia

If they do they have resigned themselves to a very early exit in the 2012 post season if they make it there.

It’s the same rotation we had going into the ‘11 season and it wasn’t so bad. It certainly wasn’t the fault of the pitching staff that we exited the playoffs early this year. If Hughes is healthy and has the velocity he ended the season with, I’ think we’ll fare pretty well.

Romine!

by david d on Oct 27, 2011 11:37 AM EDT up reply actions

agreed

We can win with that rotation, particularly if A-Rod bounces back, they get a competent DH, everyone else in the lineup does more or less what they did in 2011, and the bullpen performs as it did in 2011 — all very reasonable assumptions. But I think they’re going to want to throw around a little money in the free agent market and bringing in an upgrade over Garcia.

by long time listener on Oct 27, 2011 12:08 PM EDT up reply actions

I think the only hitch in that rotation is Garcis to be honest.

I’m not sure I see him as a reliable guy next year. He was an excellent bargain this year, but it feels like we would bep laying with fire if we expected next year to be the same with him. At least with Hughes and Burnett, we can say both are younger. I wouldn’t necessarily say I am much MORE confident in either of them, but I feel both have a lot of gas left in the tank… Hughes especially.

"Madison Square Garden is the ultimate basketball stage. That's where I belong. That's where I live. That's the home of the New York Knicks." - Amar'e Stoudemire

by Chris Child's Fist on Oct 27, 2011 3:31 PM EDT up reply actions

i'm generally good with easing in the young'uns

the bigger question going forward is whether phil hughes is in the rotation or not (as opposed to the bullpen—or trade bait?). that’s why i would like the yanks to pursue darvish within reason, stay away from wilson or any other long-term contracts for SP, and maybe consider a stopgap 1-2 year option such as danks (or, for that matter, freddy g, who i think has himself a reasonable offer coming—which i’m certainly fine with)…

by sing_or_die_1818 on Oct 27, 2011 10:44 PM EDT up reply actions

and i'd add buehrle (and maybe oswalt) to the mix, too, as many others have...

by sing_or_die_1818 on Oct 27, 2011 10:47 PM EDT up reply actions

Starting Rotation

David, I hope you’re right. Unfortunately I don’t share your confidence. The way I see it, Nova was obviously a very pleasant surprise but it’s probably very unlikely that he will match his 2nd half 2011 numbers in 2012. Nova’s unlikely to go 12-1-4 in 2012 from June on like he did in 2011 and I believe he had an ERA around 3.45 or so during that time. That probably is to much to hope for as well. Also in 2011 Hughes and Colon combined for 13 wins. In 2012 it’s likely just to be Hughes. Will he account for 13 wins? Who knows right now. But I would want to stake my post season future on it. Then there is AJ. Anyone who counts on AJ for anything more then what he has shown the past 2 seasons is kidding themselves. That only leaves CC and Garcia. CC’s a gives you are going to get out of him in 2012 pretty much when the Yankees have gotten the past 3 season the model of consistency. Lastly Garcia, can the Yankees rightfully expect a fully season out of him? Again who knows. He did seem to tire out in September. So he’s an unknown for 2012. Like I said I hope you are right, it’s just for my book there are to many “what if’s” in a rotation of CC, AJ, Nova, Hughes and Garcia after CC. From this fans perspective the Yankees need a “solid” #2 in 2012 if they are going to make a serious run for #28.

by NY Baseball Fan on Oct 27, 2011 12:03 PM EDT reply actions

pardon the typo. the end of the 5th line above should read…" But I wouldn’t …."

by NY Baseball Fan on Oct 27, 2011 12:12 PM EDT up reply actions

I don't see the Yankees getting through this offseason without signing a FA starter

Whether its Wilson, Darvish, Oswalt (or Buehrle), or someone less well regarded/sought, or a new reclamation project.

by Branta on Oct 27, 2011 1:27 PM EDT reply actions

I personally think that the Beltran to the Yanks rumor

is Boras just feeding the media some BS.

Thank you for everything Jorgie!

by Livestrong77nyy on Oct 27, 2011 1:42 PM EDT reply actions

Agreed

If the Yankees ditch Swisher, it’s not to pour MORE money into a rightfielder.
I think that if they decline Swish, they’ll go with a RF platoon of some kind, and put that money towards starting pitching. That’s my hope, and that’s what I would do.

"Have faith in the Yankees my son. Think of the great DiMaggio."
Pinstripe Alley | The Hometown Fan | @jscape2000

by jscape2000 on Oct 27, 2011 2:34 PM EDT up reply actions

Honestly I could live with that

I want Swisher back, but if letting him go frees up money to get a starter (DARVISH), then I’m OK with it. Platoon out in right for one year and then go after Kemp or another right fielder after 2012.

Let us all congratulate the Boston Red Sox for becoming the first World Champions in the history of sports to NOT make the postseason! Thats not easy to do!

by nyyrocks29 on Oct 27, 2011 2:38 PM EDT up reply actions

If C.J. Wilson is the cause of the Yankees not signing Swisher I will despise every single person involved in making that decision.

The only free agent starting pitcher I am interested in is Darvish.

Follow me on twitter @nyybrandonc

Writer/Editor for Pinstripe Alley, Blueshirt Banter

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by Brandon C. on Oct 27, 2011 2:39 PM EDT up reply actions

Me too

If getting rid of Swisher means getting Yu Darvish, I am for it. But if they are getting rid of Swisher to get somebody else or are fully capable of both signign Darvish and retaining Swisher, then I’m completely against it.

Let us all congratulate the Boston Red Sox for becoming the first World Champions in the history of sports to NOT make the postseason! Thats not easy to do!

by nyyrocks29 on Oct 27, 2011 2:48 PM EDT up reply actions

Since ability to pay is not an issue with the Yankees, dollar amounts don't concern me.

Length of deal bothers me more. It’s why I am so horrified by the Arod deal.

My guess at this point is that a serious, and probably successful run at Darvish is in the works, and a #3 or 4 starter as well. I wouldn’t have a problem with any of the names being thrown around for a middle of the rotation guy. Wilson, Danks, Buehrle, they’re all fine. Sabathia, Burnett, and Nova appear to be set. Hughes can start or set up.

On the other hand, the apparent dithering over picking up Swisher’s option suggests one of two things: Idiocy, or the possibility of bringing in a big ‘name’ to replace him, either by free agency or a trade.

by designatedquitter on Oct 27, 2011 2:18 PM EDT reply actions

I don't think that the Yankees are building their offseason around a run at Darvish

Because there is a real chance that Darvish doesn’t ask to be posted. Because the player has no negotiating leverage with the team that wins the posting process, Darvish may well make more money if he waits two years and comes over as a free agent (like Hideki Matsui did). With the posting process, half or more of the $$ actually goes to the Fighters, not to the player.

by d_c_guy on Oct 27, 2011 3:19 PM EDT up reply actions

I gotta say

At least this is better than the whole Jeter mess last year. CC will most likely be overpaid and given more years than he probably should, but since we’re the Yankees, we can probably get away with it. If anything, with that type of contract, I can see seeC as a potential good role model (pitching wise not eating wise) for the hopefully up-incoming pitching studs of our beloved farm system in the coming years.

"WHO WOULD LEAD?! THE CLOWN?!"

by I'mGivingYouARaise on Oct 27, 2011 2:27 PM EDT reply actions

it's better so far

He hasn’t even opted out, or been offered an extension. And unlike Jeter, CC has options at the price he wants. Oddly, though, his options preclude this from getting ugly. Even if he does opt, the Yankees can’t invite him to test the open market, because he’s sure to get what he wants there. So they’ll have to pursue him like he pursues bacon double cheeseburgers.

by long time listener on Oct 27, 2011 2:49 PM EDT up reply actions

If it's me calling the shots...which it's good that it isn't

Give CC an extra 1-2 years and extra couple million per, DON’T LET HIM WALK
Sign Garcia again as insurance/spot starting
Let Colon go, or sign as middle relief
Sign Darvish if total nut is <$100M for 4-5 years
Let CJ Wilson sign elsewhere
Start Hughes and yank him from the rotation by summer if he still sucks…he needs to come to camp in shape! Hopefully he is a capable starter again this year
Keep starting the hell out of Nova, love that guy
Keep starting AJ…what else to do?
Hope someone steps up from AAA (Noesi?) to spot start or be 5th/6th starter along with Freddy

by Alex40204 on Oct 27, 2011 5:22 PM EDT reply actions