Why David Ortiz Should Not Have Won The Roberto Clemente Award
by Brandon C. on Oct 20, 2011 9:18 PM EDT
in New York Yankees Analysis
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PrintFolks, I must warn you in advance. This post will consist of extreme anger, frustration, and likely a lot of emotions.
Roberto Clemente is one of my favorite athletes of all time. More importantly, Roberto Clemente is one of my favorite people of all time. Clemente was by all accounts a terrific man, and died while en route to deliver aid to earthquake victims in Nicaragua.
Clemente's life was cut short due to the tragic accident, but his legacy has not been forgotten. Major League Baseball created the Roberto Clemente award in 1971 to honor the amazing man and his legacy. The goal of the award is given to annually to the:
MLB player who best exemplifies the game of baseball, sportsmanship, community involvement and the individual's contribution to his team
Recent winners include Craig Biggio, Albert Pujols, Derek Jeter, Tim Wakefield, and....David Ortiz? Wait, what?
Now listen, I understand David Ortiz has served the community extremely well this year. I am not arguing against that, and I thank Ortiz for his great work with his charitable organization, which can be found here.
Despite that, Ortiz does NOT in the slightest bit "best exemplify the game of baseball, sportsmanship." As a matter of fact, giving the award named after such a terrific man to David Ortiz personally offends me.
Find out why after the jump.
In terms of sportsmanship, David Ortiz has been one of the players that people should not look at as an example this season.
Earlier this season, Ortiz hit a long home run against the Yankees, then proceeded to flip his bat in a showboating way.
Next, Ortiz got into a brawl with Orioles relief pitcher Kevin Gregg.
Later in the season, Ortiz angrily ranted about having a single run batted in taken away from him.
Let's not forget that Ortiz tested positive for steroids earlier in his career, denied it, finally admitted it, and then said he had no idea why he tested positive. The cherry on top of that sundae of terrible actions is that Ortiz earlier in his career said the following:
"I know that if I test positive by using any kind of substance, I know that I'm going to disrespect my family, the game, the fans and everybody, and I don't want to be facing that situation
So, by his logic, didn't Ortiz disgrace the game of baseball?
____
Even if Ortiz did not knowingly use steroids, the three unsportsmanlike actions this season show that David Ortiz is not deserving of an award named after Roberto Clemente.
Roberto Clemente is one of the greatest men to ever play Major League Baseball.
This season, there has been a plethora of Major League players that have done extensive work in charities, many being the players' own charities. There has been a large number of players that could serve as role models for those out there watching them, on and off the field. Sportsmanship is not David Ortiz' forte, and the majority of other Major League baseball players this season have out-classed the Red Sox DH.
Fans voted David Ortiz as the winner of the award, which is a shame. The greatest shame, however, is that the MLB can allow David Ortiz to be on the ballot, and that the MLB can allow David Ortiz in the 2011 season to win the award named after Roberto Clemente.
Such a shame.
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Great Article
Right on every point. The fact that anyone would vote Ortiz is ridiculous.
"Does any of you know what diversity is?"
"I believe that it is an old, old wooden ship, used during the civil war era."
by yankees97 on Oct 20, 2011 9:35 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
I agree with you 100% Brandon.
Almost every player in the league does some sort of charitable work, but not all of them are the hypocritical D-bag that Ortiz is.
After that fight with Gregg, I can't believe he was even considered.
Am I the only one flagging this guy?
Seriously, do we have to wait for the money shot or a "F*** THE SOXXXXXX!" before we ban him? Doubleteapot… BAN HIM!!
by AlohaSox on Sep 28, 2011 10:20 PM CDT
by SandalsNoPants on Oct 20, 2011 10:04 PM EDT reply actions
Yeah, I'll be that guy and say it...
If A-Rod was nominated for this award & he won it, there would’ve been a media shiticane (shit + hurricane) over it.
"WHO WOULD LEAD?! THE CLOWN?!"
by I'mGivingYouARaise on Oct 20, 2011 10:17 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Probably a couple years ago
but I think the Arod outrage is kind of slipping away with his ability to play. But then again, his slipping play does coincide with my moving away from NY, so I could be wrong, but I just don’t think it would be a huge deal if that had happened today.
Am I the only one flagging this guy?
Seriously, do we have to wait for the money shot or a "F*** THE SOXXXXXX!" before we ban him? Doubleteapot… BAN HIM!!
by AlohaSox on Sep 28, 2011 10:20 PM CDT
by SandalsNoPants on Oct 20, 2011 10:19 PM EDT up reply actions
A-Rod is still a better player than Ortiz is and still definitely more hated than he is. I have a feeling even if Alex somehow had won an award like this there still would have been a pretty big media shitstorm about it. Certainly bigger than whatever Ortiz will get.
Let us all congratulate the Boston Red Sox for becoming the first World Champions in the history of sports to NOT make the postseason! Thats not easy to do!
I'm not really sure exactly how much better Arod is than Ortiz at this point.
Am I the only one flagging this guy?
Seriously, do we have to wait for the money shot or a "F*** THE SOXXXXXX!" before we ban him? Doubleteapot… BAN HIM!!
by AlohaSox on Sep 28, 2011 10:20 PM CDT
by SandalsNoPants on Oct 20, 2011 10:43 PM EDT up reply actions
A-Rod plays defense, Ortiz doesn't
That already gives him a huge edge, and just because A-Rod struggles to find his health and timing for two months of one season does not in any way make Ortiz the better player. A-Rod’s been better his entire career by far. Ortiz had a better 2011 offensively but I’m not about to say he’s better than A-Rod because of one half-season.
Let us all congratulate the Boston Red Sox for becoming the first World Champions in the history of sports to NOT make the postseason! Thats not easy to do!
Ortiz has been the better hitter for two years now.
by Briceratops on Oct 20, 2011 10:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Thank you.
Am I the only one flagging this guy?
Seriously, do we have to wait for the money shot or a "F*** THE SOXXXXXX!" before we ban him? Doubleteapot… BAN HIM!!
by AlohaSox on Sep 28, 2011 10:20 PM CDT
by SandalsNoPants on Oct 20, 2011 10:53 PM EDT up reply actions
Here are their 2010 splits
Centaur: .270/.340, 30 HR, 125 RBI
Ortiz: .270/.370, 32 HR, 102 RBI
As for wRC, Ortiz has him beat by single digits. Too close to say one was better than the other I think. Ortiz walked more, but A-Rod had better power and production numbers (when taking into account that Alex missed more games than Ortiz did). It’s close though.
Let us all congratulate the Boston Red Sox for becoming the first World Champions in the history of sports to NOT make the postseason! Thats not easy to do!
Will you consider that the Sox were fielding somewhat of a AAA team in 2010?
102 RBI is an accomplishment.
Am I the only one flagging this guy?
Seriously, do we have to wait for the money shot or a "F*** THE SOXXXXXX!" before we ban him? Doubleteapot… BAN HIM!!
by AlohaSox on Sep 28, 2011 10:20 PM CDT
by SandalsNoPants on Oct 20, 2011 10:55 PM EDT up reply actions
RBI's are lame
2010 SLG:
A-Rod: .506
Ortiz: .529
2010 ISO:
A-Rod: .236
Ortiz: .259
Ortiz had better power last year too.
by Briceratops on Oct 20, 2011 10:58 PM EDT up reply actions
Not all that significant of a difference
I said it was close. If you want to say Ortiz was better, feel free.
Let us all congratulate the Boston Red Sox for becoming the first World Champions in the history of sports to NOT make the postseason! Thats not easy to do!
hitting is literally half the game.
And, well, Ortiz literally does NOT play defense.
So if “better” hitter means Ortiz has a few more points in his averages and maybe a couple HRs and a handful of RBIs… I’ll take ARod because he can also play the field and he won’t ever interupt Girardi’s post-game presser so he can argue about his personal stats.
ARod wins this one everytime.
"Madison Square Garden is the ultimate basketball stage. That's where I belong. That's where I live. That's the home of the New York Knicks." - Amar'e Stoudemire
by Chris Child's Fist on Oct 21, 2011 9:09 AM EDT up reply actions
I don't get the part about the interrupting the press conference.
Am I the only one flagging this guy?
Seriously, do we have to wait for the money shot or a "F*** THE SOXXXXXX!" before we ban him? Doubleteapot… BAN HIM!!
by AlohaSox on Sep 28, 2011 10:20 PM CDT
by SandalsNoPants on Oct 21, 2011 7:45 PM EDT up reply actions
He's one of the worst 3b in the league on defense, and it's not exactly news.
Their past few years on offense have been similar, but Ortiz has the edge over the past couple of seasons.
Am I the only one flagging this guy?
Seriously, do we have to wait for the money shot or a "F*** THE SOXXXXXX!" before we ban him? Doubleteapot… BAN HIM!!
by AlohaSox on Sep 28, 2011 10:20 PM CDT
by SandalsNoPants on Oct 20, 2011 10:52 PM EDT up reply actions
He had a UZR of +11 on defense this season
Let us all congratulate the Boston Red Sox for becoming the first World Champions in the history of sports to NOT make the postseason! Thats not easy to do!
THIS season.
Look at the previous 5.
He’s like -14.something UZR since 2006, I think it was.
Am I the only one flagging this guy?
Seriously, do we have to wait for the money shot or a "F*** THE SOXXXXXX!" before we ban him? Doubleteapot… BAN HIM!!
by AlohaSox on Sep 28, 2011 10:20 PM CDT
by SandalsNoPants on Oct 20, 2011 10:56 PM EDT up reply actions
-6.6 UZR since he started playing 3rd. (2004)
David wright has a -28.1 UZR since 2004 for comparison
So you're comparing him to an AWFUL defender.
Does that make Arod good?
Am I the only one flagging this guy?
Seriously, do we have to wait for the money shot or a "F*** THE SOXXXXXX!" before we ban him? Doubleteapot… BAN HIM!!
by AlohaSox on Sep 28, 2011 10:20 PM CDT
by SandalsNoPants on Oct 20, 2011 11:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Since 2004, he's been one of the worst
14/19 in 2010
14/18 in 2009
14/21 in 2008
13/21 in 2007
21/21 in 2006
12/19 in 2005
6/21 in 2004
Am I the only one flagging this guy?
Seriously, do we have to wait for the money shot or a "F*** THE SOXXXXXX!" before we ban him? Doubleteapot… BAN HIM!!
by AlohaSox on Sep 28, 2011 10:20 PM CDT
by SandalsNoPants on Oct 20, 2011 11:13 PM EDT up reply actions
You're not looking at the whole picture
That tanking really doesn’t say much. if he’s posting up -1ish UZR but ranking 14 says more that there’s good 3rd defensive basemen in the league than Arod is horrible. Also it doesn’t show the huge discrepancy from 14 and last. Example in 2010 he ranked 14 of 19 in qualified. But he posted a slightly below par -2.3 UZR, when the worst guy is posting a -9.5 UZR. He’s closer to the guy at 11 than the guy at 19th. Also that fact that usually 10 teams don’t have a qualified 3rd basemen really screws up your data as well.
1. He was a poor fielder leading up to this season, at best slightly below average
2. Saying he’s one of the worst fielders in the league compares him to the other 3b in the league. It doesn’t say that he’s automatically really bad. Like I said before, I never was saying that he’s the worst in the league.
Am I the only one flagging this guy?
Seriously, do we have to wait for the money shot or a "F*** THE SOXXXXXX!" before we ban him? Doubleteapot… BAN HIM!!
by AlohaSox on Sep 28, 2011 10:20 PM CDT
by SandalsNoPants on Oct 20, 2011 11:24 PM EDT up reply actions
1. i agreed with this point…like 5 time already
2. Poor wording since one the worst is absolutely terrible way of describing his defense since the difference between him and the worst is a huge discrepancy. lets say there’s 7 guys:
A. 23 UZR
B. 20 UZR
C. 20 UZR
D. 18 UZR
E. 15 UZR
F. 8 UZR
G. – 20 UZR
You can say F is the second worst defender in the league. Yet he’s posting positive defensive value. So that really doesn’t give an accurate view his defense at all no?
Is that really an accurate portrayal of Arod's placement in comparison to the other 3b in the league?
Am I the only one flagging this guy?
Seriously, do we have to wait for the money shot or a "F*** THE SOXXXXXX!" before we ban him? Doubleteapot… BAN HIM!!
by AlohaSox on Sep 28, 2011 10:20 PM CDT
by SandalsNoPants on Oct 20, 2011 11:33 PM EDT up reply actions
But is it an example that is comparable to Arod in this situation?
Am I the only one flagging this guy?
Seriously, do we have to wait for the money shot or a "F*** THE SOXXXXXX!" before we ban him? Doubleteapot… BAN HIM!!
by AlohaSox on Sep 28, 2011 10:20 PM CDT
by SandalsNoPants on Oct 20, 2011 11:47 PM EDT up reply actions
Not a very good example at all. UZR is based on averages.
A guy may make a ton of plays, but if more players make a lot more plays than he does, then he is considered below average relative to his position.
That +8 wouldn’t be positive in a real UZR sample if this was legitimate.
Contributing writer for Pinstripe Alley.
by Frank Campagnola on Oct 21, 2011 12:52 AM EDT up reply actions
Basically, here’s what’s calculated:
The out rate and the percentage of balls in that zone that turn into outs. The league average out rate is then subtracted from the player’s out rate — if this number is negative, it means the player is worse than league average. If it’s positive, it means he’s better than league average.
So even though it says he’s a “+8 defender,” he’s below average when compared to his peers.
Contributing writer for Pinstripe Alley.
by Frank Campagnola on Oct 21, 2011 1:01 AM EDT up reply actions
2006 was by far his worst season on defense
I don’t think it helps when you get booed by moronic Yankee fans every time the ball is hit to you though.
But from 2007-now, he’s been about average. Slightly below average in some years and at a gold glove level this year (really not sure where that came from either). Not fantastic, but he’s far from the worst in the league like you said.
Let us all congratulate the Boston Red Sox for becoming the first World Champions in the history of sports to NOT make the postseason! Thats not easy to do!
I didn't say he was the worst.
Am I the only one flagging this guy?
Seriously, do we have to wait for the money shot or a "F*** THE SOXXXXXX!" before we ban him? Doubleteapot… BAN HIM!!
by AlohaSox on Sep 28, 2011 10:20 PM CDT
by SandalsNoPants on Oct 20, 2011 11:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes you did
He’s one of the worst 3b in the league on defense, and it’s not exactly news.
Let us all congratulate the Boston Red Sox for becoming the first World Champions in the history of sports to NOT make the postseason! Thats not easy to do!
That does not say he's the worst in the league.
Am I the only one flagging this guy?
Seriously, do we have to wait for the money shot or a "F*** THE SOXXXXXX!" before we ban him? Doubleteapot… BAN HIM!!
by AlohaSox on Sep 28, 2011 10:20 PM CDT
by SandalsNoPants on Oct 20, 2011 11:05 PM EDT up reply actions
He's far from "one of the worst in the league" as well
Let us all congratulate the Boston Red Sox for becoming the first World Champions in the history of sports to NOT make the postseason! Thats not easy to do!
Not really.
See my post a few above this one.
Am I the only one flagging this guy?
Seriously, do we have to wait for the money shot or a "F*** THE SOXXXXXX!" before we ban him? Doubleteapot… BAN HIM!!
by AlohaSox on Sep 28, 2011 10:20 PM CDT
by SandalsNoPants on Oct 20, 2011 11:14 PM EDT up reply actions
A-Rod was surprisingly good on defense this season.
Eye test and UZR agree. But Ortiz was one of the best hitters in baseball this season and last year was also more productive with the stick.
by Briceratops on Oct 20, 2011 10:54 PM EDT up reply actions
12/18 in total UZR over the past 5 seasons among qualified players.
And that’s immensely helped by his first positive defensive season since 2004.
Am I the only one flagging this guy?
Seriously, do we have to wait for the money shot or a "F*** THE SOXXXXXX!" before we ban him? Doubleteapot… BAN HIM!!
by AlohaSox on Sep 28, 2011 10:20 PM CDT
by SandalsNoPants on Oct 20, 2011 11:00 PM EDT up reply actions
he had one really awful season in 2006
and been slightly below par in all the other. and two years where he was well above par.
The past 5 seasons doesn't include 2006.
Am I the only one flagging this guy?
Seriously, do we have to wait for the money shot or a "F*** THE SOXXXXXX!" before we ban him? Doubleteapot… BAN HIM!!
by AlohaSox on Sep 28, 2011 10:20 PM CDT
by SandalsNoPants on Oct 20, 2011 11:04 PM EDT up reply actions
-.6 UZR over the last 5 years then..i don’t see the point of this argument. He had a bad year, 3 slightly below avg year and a great year in the past 5 season…which is basically proves what i said above…
he’s in the middle of the field
This past season was really good
And it nearly erased all of the negative UZR he accumulated in the previous 4. I guess if you need to make your point, include it, but I don’t get how we’re denying on here that Arod is a poor fielder and has been for the better part of the past decade.
Am I the only one flagging this guy?
Seriously, do we have to wait for the money shot or a "F*** THE SOXXXXXX!" before we ban him? Doubleteapot… BAN HIM!!
by AlohaSox on Sep 28, 2011 10:20 PM CDT
by SandalsNoPants on Oct 20, 2011 11:17 PM EDT up reply actions
You are doing this entirely on UZR, why?
This is the same tool that thinks Teixeira is a bad infielder. It’s very inconsistent for infielders and watching him every single day, I can tell you that I am 100% sure that he is not anywhere close to one of the worst 3B in the league on defense. If you don’t want to believe it, then fine. Enjoy the Rays.
Let us all congratulate the Boston Red Sox for becoming the first World Champions in the history of sports to NOT make the postseason! Thats not easy to do!
Someone mentioned UZR and I rolled with it. Let's try dWAR
2011 = 0.7 good!
2010 = -0.5
2009 = -0.9
2008 = -0.5
2007 = 0
2006 = -1.3
2005 = -1.1
2004 = 0.2 (finally positive again!)
TOTAL
-3.6 since 2005
-4.3 from 2005-2010
-3.4 since 2004 when he moved to 3b.
Can you find anything that shows he HASN’T been one of the worst 3b fielders since 2004 ended?
Am I the only one flagging this guy?
Seriously, do we have to wait for the money shot or a "F*** THE SOXXXXXX!" before we ban him? Doubleteapot… BAN HIM!!
by AlohaSox on Sep 28, 2011 10:20 PM CDT
by SandalsNoPants on Oct 20, 2011 11:30 PM EDT up reply actions
UZR doesn't think Teixeira's a bad infielder.
His UZR fluctuates a lot year to year, but his good far outweighs the bad, especially when you consider that you should have 3 seasons of UZR to gain an accurate portrayal of a player’s defense. dWAR also has him as a great defender. Tell me what Arod has going for him, please.
Am I the only one flagging this guy?
Seriously, do we have to wait for the money shot or a "F*** THE SOXXXXXX!" before we ban him? Doubleteapot… BAN HIM!!
by AlohaSox on Sep 28, 2011 10:20 PM CDT
by SandalsNoPants on Oct 20, 2011 11:39 PM EDT up reply actions
So the fact you take out his good seasons, why can;t we take out his bad seasons? Same argument no? Take out the -14 UZR season then BAM! Arod is suddenly a average to above average fielder. He’s inconsistent, but overall he’s slight below par which when all the data is added points too. also look at his UZR fluxation, it also points to him being slightly below par but not OMGZ horrible,
What good seasons?
2004 and 2011? That’s it, and 2011 is an outlier.
Am I the only one flagging this guy?
Seriously, do we have to wait for the money shot or a "F*** THE SOXXXXXX!" before we ban him? Doubleteapot… BAN HIM!!
by AlohaSox on Sep 28, 2011 10:20 PM CDT
by SandalsNoPants on Oct 20, 2011 11:31 PM EDT up reply actions
I'll accept that. I do believe it was somewhat off the path.
But then there’s the matter of all those other negative seasons in 2005, 2007-2010. 2011 is the only season Arod has been anywhere near good on defense since 2004.
Am I the only one flagging this guy?
Seriously, do we have to wait for the money shot or a "F*** THE SOXXXXXX!" before we ban him? Doubleteapot… BAN HIM!!
by AlohaSox on Sep 28, 2011 10:20 PM CDT
by SandalsNoPants on Oct 20, 2011 11:41 PM EDT up reply actions
2009 he came of hip surgery, so i think 2005 -, 2007 and 2009 are more representative of his defense, which is not good but not horrible.
sorry
which years are we counting now? I’m not sure if I understand this last post.
Am I the only one flagging this guy?
Seriously, do we have to wait for the money shot or a "F*** THE SOXXXXXX!" before we ban him? Doubleteapot… BAN HIM!!
by AlohaSox on Sep 28, 2011 10:20 PM CDT
by SandalsNoPants on Oct 20, 2011 11:47 PM EDT up reply actions
What happened to 2008?
I’m seriously not trying to be a dick. I’m just trying to understand your point right now.
Am I the only one flagging this guy?
Seriously, do we have to wait for the money shot or a "F*** THE SOXXXXXX!" before we ban him? Doubleteapot… BAN HIM!!
by AlohaSox on Sep 28, 2011 10:20 PM CDT
by SandalsNoPants on Oct 20, 2011 11:52 PM EDT up reply actions
2008 existed? (we didn’t make the play off that year) JK yea i meant to include 2008 too ugh… I’m having a terrible day with the years today lol..okay okay i meant :
2005, 2007,2008,2010.
That's alright, dude.
This has been a good debate, especially since that one guy got too frustrated and left. I’m about to hit the hay.
Thanks for being more tolerant of fans of other teams than OTM.
Am I the only one flagging this guy?
Seriously, do we have to wait for the money shot or a "F*** THE SOXXXXXX!" before we ban him? Doubleteapot… BAN HIM!!
by AlohaSox on Sep 28, 2011 10:20 PM CDT
by SandalsNoPants on Oct 20, 2011 11:58 PM EDT up reply actions
There could've been a good debate on the let Montero catch thread
But it didn’t quite work out.
Am I the only one flagging this guy?
Seriously, do we have to wait for the money shot or a "F*** THE SOXXXXXX!" before we ban him? Doubleteapot… BAN HIM!!
by AlohaSox on Sep 28, 2011 10:20 PM CDT
by SandalsNoPants on Oct 21, 2011 12:03 AM EDT up reply actions
I didn't say he was horrible.
Am I the only one flagging this guy?
Seriously, do we have to wait for the money shot or a "F*** THE SOXXXXXX!" before we ban him? Doubleteapot… BAN HIM!!
by AlohaSox on Sep 28, 2011 10:20 PM CDT
by SandalsNoPants on Oct 20, 2011 11:31 PM EDT up reply actions
I said he was one of the worst.
Still waiting to be proven wrong.
Am I the only one flagging this guy?
Seriously, do we have to wait for the money shot or a "F*** THE SOXXXXXX!" before we ban him? Doubleteapot… BAN HIM!!
by AlohaSox on Sep 28, 2011 10:20 PM CDT
by SandalsNoPants on Oct 20, 2011 11:31 PM EDT up reply actions
Ypur wording is absolutely terrible. Look above you can be a average defender and still be consider one of the worst if there is a lot of very good defenders in the position. It really mean shit to his individual play though.
I definitely understand that, but is that the case with Arod?
Am I the only one flagging this guy?
Seriously, do we have to wait for the money shot or a "F*** THE SOXXXXXX!" before we ban him? Doubleteapot… BAN HIM!!
by AlohaSox on Sep 28, 2011 10:20 PM CDT
by SandalsNoPants on Oct 20, 2011 11:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Arod has a -1.0 UZR/150 since 2004
and a -6.6 UZR total. He’s pretty middling compared to the worst and the best.
2 good seasons out of 8
and 1 in the past 7. I do enjoy the way you go back to 2004, though.
Am I the only one flagging this guy?
Seriously, do we have to wait for the money shot or a "F*** THE SOXXXXXX!" before we ban him? Doubleteapot… BAN HIM!!
by AlohaSox on Sep 28, 2011 10:20 PM CDT
by SandalsNoPants on Oct 20, 2011 11:46 PM EDT up reply actions
I think you guys are just arguing semantics.
I agree that the last half decade he hasn’t been a stalwart defender out there but I agree with what lolol said in that there are usually around ten teams that don’t even have a qualified third basemen to compare UZR with, making those years where he was 14/19 closer to the middle of the pack.
by Briceratops on Oct 20, 2011 11:37 PM EDT up reply actions
But the guys who don't qualify really probably aren't 3b
Why is it so hard to say he’s not good, though?
Am I the only one flagging this guy?
Seriously, do we have to wait for the money shot or a "F*** THE SOXXXXXX!" before we ban him? Doubleteapot… BAN HIM!!
by AlohaSox on Sep 28, 2011 10:20 PM CDT
by SandalsNoPants on Oct 20, 2011 11:44 PM EDT up reply actions
But he isn't.
Am I the only one flagging this guy?
Seriously, do we have to wait for the money shot or a "F*** THE SOXXXXXX!" before we ban him? Doubleteapot… BAN HIM!!
by AlohaSox on Sep 28, 2011 10:20 PM CDT
by SandalsNoPants on Oct 20, 2011 11:52 PM EDT up reply actions
No I do agree with that assessment.
2005-2010 over the course of a season he would cost the team a few runs on defense. I just think the people you have been arguing with would disagree with the wording “one of the worst” or “horrible.” Again, just semantics.
by Briceratops on Oct 20, 2011 11:48 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes. Like i said bad wording on his part. Since one of the worst implies he’s posting like a -10 UZR year in and year out…which he isn’t.
But that's not what it implies if you understand how comparisons work
And you already proved that you do. So bravo.
Am I the only one flagging this guy?
Seriously, do we have to wait for the money shot or a "F*** THE SOXXXXXX!" before we ban him? Doubleteapot… BAN HIM!!
by AlohaSox on Sep 28, 2011 10:20 PM CDT
by SandalsNoPants on Oct 20, 2011 11:53 PM EDT up reply actions
Did I say he was horrible?
I really can’t remember.
Am I the only one flagging this guy?
Seriously, do we have to wait for the money shot or a "F*** THE SOXXXXXX!" before we ban him? Doubleteapot… BAN HIM!!
by AlohaSox on Sep 28, 2011 10:20 PM CDT
by SandalsNoPants on Oct 20, 2011 11:54 PM EDT up reply actions
I never said he was horrible.
I checked. It was someone else who implied that I did.
Am I the only one flagging this guy?
Seriously, do we have to wait for the money shot or a "F*** THE SOXXXXXX!" before we ban him? Doubleteapot… BAN HIM!!
by AlohaSox on Sep 28, 2011 10:20 PM CDT
by SandalsNoPants on Oct 20, 2011 11:57 PM EDT up reply actions
No I think that was an accidental strawman.
by Briceratops on Oct 20, 2011 11:57 PM EDT up reply actions
No, lololol or however many lols there are
mentioned something about Arod not being OMGZ HORRIBLE.
So the fact you take out his good seasons, why can;t we take out his bad seasons? Same argument no? Take out the -14 UZR season then BAM! Arod is suddenly a average to above average fielder. He’s inconsistent, but overall he’s slight below par which when all the data is added points too. also look at his UZR fluxation, it also points to him being slightly below par but not OMGZ horrible,
Am I the only one flagging this guy?
Seriously, do we have to wait for the money shot or a "F*** THE SOXXXXXX!" before we ban him? Doubleteapot… BAN HIM!!
by AlohaSox on Sep 28, 2011 10:20 PM CDT
by SandalsNoPants on Oct 21, 2011 12:00 AM EDT up reply actions
When you say he’s one of the worst 3rd basemen in the league and the bottom of the barrel guys are posting up -10 UZR yearly, doesn’t make it seem that Arod is doing the same? That’s why i had trouble with your wording. Since when you say he’s one of the worst I’m think Mark Reynolds like defense. Which he isn’t doing.
That would be more like THE worst
I deliberately said “one of the” but I guess that flew over everyone’s head.
Am I the only one flagging this guy?
Seriously, do we have to wait for the money shot or a "F*** THE SOXXXXXX!" before we ban him? Doubleteapot… BAN HIM!!
by AlohaSox on Sep 28, 2011 10:20 PM CDT
by SandalsNoPants on Oct 21, 2011 12:01 AM EDT up reply actions
Well when not sure about other people but when i think one of the worst i’m usually lumping people with similarly bad defensive ability together. So when i saw worst, i was thinking basically guys like Wright, Reynolds, Ramirez who all have been posting like -6 or worse UZR over the last few years. That’s why i got a bit annoyed. Like i said I’m at fault here too.
It's all good.
Am I the only one flagging this guy?
Seriously, do we have to wait for the money shot or a "F*** THE SOXXXXXX!" before we ban him? Doubleteapot… BAN HIM!!
by AlohaSox on Sep 28, 2011 10:20 PM CDT
by SandalsNoPants on Oct 21, 2011 12:18 AM EDT up reply actions
wait...A-Rod is one of the worst 3B in the leauge?
have you watched a single Yanks game in your life?
Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows
by Rorschach44 on Oct 20, 2011 11:15 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeeep.
Am I the only one flagging this guy?
Seriously, do we have to wait for the money shot or a "F*** THE SOXXXXXX!" before we ban him? Doubleteapot… BAN HIM!!
by AlohaSox on Sep 28, 2011 10:20 PM CDT
by SandalsNoPants on Oct 20, 2011 11:18 PM EDT up reply actions
LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows
by Rorschach44 on Oct 20, 2011 11:24 PM EDT up reply actions
Really?
After Longoria and Beltre, who would you rather have on 3B? Pablo Sandoval? Chipper Jones? Kevin Youkillis?
"Madison Square Garden is the ultimate basketball stage. That's where I belong. That's where I live. That's the home of the New York Knicks." - Amar'e Stoudemire
by Chris Child's Fist on Oct 21, 2011 9:14 AM EDT up reply actions
Sandoval, Zimmerman, Polanco, amongst others.
Not Chipper.
Am I the only one flagging this guy?
Seriously, do we have to wait for the money shot or a "F*** THE SOXXXXXX!" before we ban him? Doubleteapot… BAN HIM!!
by AlohaSox on Sep 28, 2011 10:20 PM CDT
by SandalsNoPants on Oct 21, 2011 7:52 PM EDT up reply actions
Remember kids.
If A-Rod slaps a baseball out of a glove, he is a classless jerk that breaks the unwritten rules of the game. If Pedroia does it, he has
If A-Rod is rumored to pad his stats without any proper evidence, he is guilty even if proven innocent. If Ortiz flips out in the middle of his manager’s press conference because he didn’t get credited with an RBI, let it fly.
by OTRWaldo on Oct 20, 2011 10:30 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
If A-Rod is rumored to pad his stats without any proper evidence, he is guilty even if proven innocent. If Ortiz flips out in the middle of his manager’s press conference because he didn’t get credited with an RBI, let it fly.
It’s showing his passion to win, man! Heart, grit and tight team chemistry. The three traits that define Red Sox players!
Let us all congratulate the Boston Red Sox for becoming the first World Champions in the history of sports to NOT make the postseason! Thats not easy to do!
Selig would never allow A-Rod to even sniff this award
Let alone win it.
Centaur’s don’t need awards. They just need a stable with a poker room.
Let us all congratulate the Boston Red Sox for becoming the first World Champions in the history of sports to NOT make the postseason! Thats not easy to do!
I completely agree
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by Chris McKeown on Oct 21, 2011 12:03 AM EDT up reply actions
How this happened is beyond me
I never saw Clemente play so I don’t have the attachment to him that you have, so it doesn’t bother me quite as much. But I still have no idea how David Ortiz, of all the players in baseball wound up with the award that is supposed to signify class and sportsmanship.
There’s plenty of players who get really involved with charities and with the community. And not all those guys rant about losing 1 RBI, start brawls and insult other managers (as he did with Joe Girardi after the bat flip incident- though I had no personal issue with his bat flip).
So, thank you David for whatever you did with charites to help people. You did not in any way however deserve this award.
Let us all congratulate the Boston Red Sox for becoming the first World Champions in the history of sports to NOT make the postseason! Thats not easy to do!
Just to chime in
I will ways remember Fat Papi telling JOE G to shut up and take it like a man after the series in May
What a joke he’d never get a hug from me that’s for sour FU#KIng loser
I'm curious on why Grandy/D-rob wasn't nominated
Those guys have been doing charity work all season and haven’t punched someone as far as i know.
Which Yankees were nominated?
CC I think was, but anybody else?
Let us all congratulate the Boston Red Sox for becoming the first World Champions in the history of sports to NOT make the postseason! Thats not easy to do!
It’s one guy from every team. CC was our guy which is great considering all he’s done but Grandy and D-Rob have been far more active and in the news this season for their work.
And on the Red Sox, the one guy picked was Ortiz?
Even on a team full of fatass douches and slobs you’d think they could pick a better candidate than Big Papi. Pedroia should have been their guy- he’s the only significant guy on that team I can even come close to respecting.
Let us all congratulate the Boston Red Sox for becoming the first World Champions in the history of sports to NOT make the postseason! Thats not easy to do!
by nyyrocks29 on Oct 20, 2011 10:41 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
You must be this tall to win this award.
Just once I'd like someone to call me "Sir," without adding, "You're making a scene."
Wake won it last year
He could’ve gone for the repeat.
Am I the only one flagging this guy?
Seriously, do we have to wait for the money shot or a "F*** THE SOXXXXXX!" before we ban him? Doubleteapot… BAN HIM!!
by AlohaSox on Sep 28, 2011 10:20 PM CDT
by SandalsNoPants on Oct 20, 2011 10:45 PM EDT up reply actions
I think we're still waiting for him to "figure out whats going on"
Coming up on three years… any time now David.
Let us all congratulate the Boston Red Sox for becoming the first World Champions in the history of sports to NOT make the postseason! Thats not easy to do!
Do you remember when Gary Matthews Jr tested positive?
He mentioned that he’d talk about it when the time is right. The time just never seems to be right, I guess.
Am I the only one flagging this guy?
Seriously, do we have to wait for the money shot or a "F*** THE SOXXXXXX!" before we ban him? Doubleteapot… BAN HIM!!
by AlohaSox on Sep 28, 2011 10:20 PM CDT
by SandalsNoPants on Oct 20, 2011 10:54 PM EDT up reply actions
I honestly don't
I haven’t heart that name since he was sucking for the Angels.
Let us all congratulate the Boston Red Sox for becoming the first World Champions in the history of sports to NOT make the postseason! Thats not easy to do!
heard*
I’ve been hearing too much about Pedroia lately.
Let us all congratulate the Boston Red Sox for becoming the first World Champions in the history of sports to NOT make the postseason! Thats not easy to do!
Travesty. Sheer travesty.
The double (and triple) standards that abound in MLB is a joke…
Ortiz never should have been on the ballot. And stupid people that voted for him never should never be allowed to vote. In any election. For anything. Ever.
Very sad.
Just once I'd like someone to call me "Sir," without adding, "You're making a scene."
if you want an example on how to have absolutely terrible sportsmanship
look no further then Ortiz
I'm looking for Ray Finkle.....and a clean pair of shorts.
If this (or any) award was worth getting enraged about, then yes, Ortiz is a spectacularly unworthy choice.
Ironically, Clemente himself was a pain in the ass during most of his career, but his death trying to bring earthquake relief supplies to South America is what caused an award to be created in his name.
Even on the Red Sox, there were players with smaller egos, less selfishness, a better concept of sportsmanship, and more emotional maturity than their nominee.
by designatedquitter on Oct 21, 2011 9:28 AM EDT reply actions
Agreed 100%
Ortiz is a disgrace to the game.
I guess the red sox fans stuffed the ballot boxes and vote him the winner so they could at least feel they accomplished something this season (other than being the biggest chokers ever). Still, this is a disgrace to Clemete’s name.
"other than being the biggest chokers ever"
Brave, brave card for a Yankees fan to play.
Tampa Bay Rays Championships: Still Zero
"Playoffs?!? Don't talk about playoffs! Are you kidding me? I just hope we can win a game!"
- Jim Mora, seeing through space and time to describe the 2011 Boston Red Sox
by nuthinboutnuthin on Oct 25, 2011 1:29 AM EDT up reply actions
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