Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Pro Quality. Fan Perspective.
Login-facebook
Around SBN: Now They've Screwed Spurs, UEFA Willing To Review Rule

The NYY by the Numbers (3): Finding Two Starters

In my last post, I identified eight roster spots that still need to be filled going into 2012.  Some of these spots (SP, IF and backup C defense) were areas of team weakness in 2011.  Others (a RH OF bat, a backup CIF who can hit) are players who we can reasonably expect to get playing time in 2012.  Since that time, Cashman has talked about his need to add another lefty reliever (sigh), which I’m not going to look at here.

In each case, the FO has three options, some of which are more feasible in certain situations than others: promote internally, sign a FA, or trade (or sign and trade) with another team.  All eight spots will share a salary pool of around $45 million.

In this post, I will cover 10 pitchers who could fill the two holes in the 2012 NYY rotation; some of these will be FA, some internal, and some trade candidates.

10 to watch after the jump:

Star-divide

Free Agents:
1. CC Sabathia (31 in 2012, 3 year fWAR Avg. 6.2, 2011 salary $23 million): The only sure #1 on the FA market, and no other #1 is close enough to FA to be traded.  The NYY sign Sabathia or they don’t have an ace.  The good news: everything we've heard says he wants to come back.  So how much would it take? Cliff Lee is going to make $25 million in 2013, so CC could get 5/130, with a $28-30 million vesting option in year 6.
2. CJ Wilson (31, 2 year Avg. 5.2, $7 million): str8edgeracer’s average stats (215 IP , 188 K & 1.21 WHIP) and peripherals (7.9 K/9, 3.4 FIP) since 2010 make him a borderline ace.  A big question mark is whether he can continue at his 2010-11 pace, given that he threw more IP than his prior 5 years in relief combined.  MLBTR estimates a contract of 5-6 years at $18-20 million.
3. Yu Darvish (25, NPB ERA 2.12, $6 million): The big lottery ticket; if posted, scouts estimate that Darvish, 6’5” and a fierce competitor, has #1 potential.  His 2011 NPB line (1.46 ERA, .843 WHIP, 10.5 K/9, 1.4 BB/9, .75 HR/9) compares favorably to Hellickson’s 2010 AAA season against weaker competition (2.45 ERA, 1.17 WHIP, 9.4 K/9, 2.7 BB/9, .38 HR/9), except the HR rate, which could be a worry.  Darvish could command a $75 million posting fee, and another $75 million over 5 years.
4. Edwin Jackson (28, 3-year Avg. 3.7, $8.4): Jackson, who might be on his 7th team in 2012, reminds me of AJ Burnett...great stuff that took some time to harness.  Though 4 years younger entering FA, Jackson’s last 3 years (7.1 K/9, 3 BB/9, 108 ERA+, 1.36 WHIP) look a lot like Burnett in TOR (9 K/9, 3.3 BB/9, 112 ERA+, 1.28 WHIP, Avg WAR 3.7).  They even have matching bad no hitters.  Don’t be surprised if Jackson, a Boras client, demands Burnett money (5-6 years, $16-18 million).
5. Freddy Garcia (35, 3-year Avg. 1.7, $4 w. incentives): Of Colon and Garcia, Freddy is the safer bet, due to Colon’s IP jump in 2011 (Garcia threw less this year, while Colon threw 100 more IP than 2009-10 combined).  The Yankees could offer him arbitration, and if he declines they might be in line for Type B compensation.  If all of #2-4 fall through/get too expensive, Garcia could be in the mix for 1 year, $5-6 million.  His peripherals suggest a 4-4.2 ERA, but the limited financial exposure would make the NYY more comfortable about moving him to the pen if a viable in-house option emerges.  The NYY could probably squeeze 175 IP and 2-2.5 fWAR out of Garcia in 2012, which is #3, #4 starter value.

Internal:
There are several internal options at AAA who could come up for a spot start or work their way into the rotation, or serve as the long man.
6. Hector Noesi (25, 2010 MiLB 3.2 ERA, 1.1 WHIP, 8.6 K/9, 1.6 BB/9): Noesi was wasted this season on the ML roster, and might benefit from stretching out in AAA if he isn’t guaranteed a spot in the rotation.  Of the three internal options, he is the most polished.
7. David Phelps (25, 2011 MiLB 2.99 ERA, 1.27 WHIP, 7.5 K/9, 2.1 BB/9).
8. Adam Warren (24, 2011 MiLB 3.6 ERA, 1.3 WHIP, 6.6 K/9, 3.1 BB/9): Warren’s upside has been described as a #4, and looks like he has adjustments to make with another year in AAA.  Phelps should be next in line after Noesi.

Trade Candidates:
There is a deep class FA pitching class coming up in 2013, which could include Cain, Danks, Greinke, Hamels, Liriano, and Shaun Marcum.  Some of those guys will get extended, and some of them (Greinke, Liriano, Jonathan Sanchez) have too many red flags for the NYY to be aggressive.  However, there are two impending FA who might be interesting 2012 trade candidates.
9. Matt Cain (27, 3 year Avg. 4 WAR, $15 million in 2012): Cain looks like a true #2; 6 years at just below 4 WAR/year, a 3.69 career FIP, 1.11 WHIP the last 3 years, 132 ERA+, 7.2 K/9, 2.7 BB/9), and SFG has offensive holes that make them a viable trade partner.  Cain’s FlyB% (career 44%) has to be of some concern, but his ERA has consistently beaten his FIP and he has a skill for limiting HR (career HR/FB 6.5%; Sabathia 8.5%) and inducing pop-flies (career 12.5%, Sabathia 8% the last 3 years).  Cain can probably demand an extension of 6 years at $18-22 million.
10. John Danks (27, 3-year Avg. 3.4, Arb. 3 est. $10 million in 2012): Danks has been mentioned as a possible trade candidate if the CHW decide to rebuild.  His numbers the last 3 years are comparable to Jackson (112 ERA+, 1.27 WHIP, 6.9 K/9, 2.9 BB/9), and a bad 2011 suggests he could be a buy low candidate (ERA 4.3 but a FIP of 3.8).  Could probably get an extension of 5-6 years in the $15 million range.

Summary:
1. As I wrote this, it turned out that delving for a long man or lefty reliever just wasn’t that interesting.  Any of those AAA options could make sense in the long relief role, though it might not be their best use.  And I certainly hope that Cashman has the good sense to stop throwing multi-year contracts at the likes of Javier Lopez or Jeremy Affeldt.
2. The Yankees can reasonably afford Sabathia OR Wilson OR Cain AND one of Jackson, Darvish, Danks or Garcia, if they want to stay within a payroll of $210-215 million. If Sabathia opts out and cannot be re-signed, the Yankees could reasonably afford any two other pitchers on this list.
3. Given that Matt Cain would probably cost Montero, Nunez and a “B”, this looks like an emergency option if Sabathia leaves.  Danks is intriguing, because he is relatively under the radar compared to Cain, a little cheaper and might not take Montero.  Or the Yanks could go with a couple of wild cards (Darvish & Jackson), or they could see what they have with the kids, though a rotation without Sabathia, Cain, or Wilson makes it unlikely that they would return to the playoffs.  A rotation of Sabathia, Nova, Hughes, Burnett, and Garcia/Noesi is probably enough to secure the WC, but not enough to make a deep playoff run.

In the next day or two, I’ll take a look at some of the candidates for the UT IF and backup C roles.

Comment 16 comments  |  1 recs  | 

Do you like this story?

Comments

Display:

Wrong
And I certainly hope that Cashman has the good sense to stop throwing multi-year contracts at the likes of Javier Lopez or Jeremy Affeldt.

by Briceratops on Oct 12, 2011 3:12 PM EDT reply actions  

Cain really?

I don’t know why people don’t know his FB rates are bad for Yankee Stadium.

by DCyanks21 on Oct 12, 2011 9:41 PM EDT reply actions  

Cain has essentially no H/R split (FIP, HR% same)

He seems to have an ability to consistently outperform his peripherals, by inducing a lot of FB that are actually weak (“outfield pop ups”).

by PortlandYankee on Oct 12, 2011 10:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

This is true, however there’s a pretty big difference between right field in his home park and right field at YS. There would definitely be balls that would get out at YS that would have been flyouts at whatever the Giants park is named now. He would still be solid, but I don’t want to give up Montero for him.

The Savior has come, and he is glorious. #63

by Wraithpk on Oct 13, 2011 1:15 AM EDT up reply actions  

I would not trade for him

The asking price would be Montero +….. and that is too much
But I would seriously consider signing him as a free agent. He is the genuine item as a number 2 starter, but he is not a number 1.
Darvish has a lot of tools as a pitcher, but he will cost between posting and contract number 1 starter cash, and he may not turn out to be a number one starter, and will likely cost more than Wilson. Wilson seems to like Texas, and the Rangers will probably have the best chance at signing him.

The thing about Darvish that makes me nervous is not the tools he has. What makes me nervous is that outstanding tools do not always translate into outstanding results. Pick the name of a right handed starter out of a hat…. will he be another Roy Halladay? That would be outstanding, but unlikely. Will he be the next Freddie Garcia, a prospect so valued that he was the centerpiece in the trade of Randy Johnson to Houston? Josh Beckett? Jered Weaver? That would be great. What if he is another Kevin Millwood? Or Gavin Floyd? Jose Contreras? Those were three highly touted pitching prospects at one time that have achieved some big league success. Not busts, but none have ever been aces either.

What makes me nervous about Darvish is that he turn out to be a world beater, he may turn out to be a third starter. Nobody knows what he will be until he gets here, but he is going to cost a bomb.

by Iggy Poptart on Oct 14, 2011 9:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

Darvish has the biggest upside, and would cost about the same as Wilson. Plus, I think Wilson will stay in Texas.

The Savior has come, and he is glorious. #63

by Wraithpk on Oct 12, 2011 10:41 PM EDT reply actions  

I agree

However it’s important to note that Darvish being posted isn’t a sure thing. He has softened his language on a move to the MLB, but it isn’t a done deal. The Yankees need to be prepared to look for other options, whether in just a one year deal to a vet till the pitching bounty next offseason or to entice Wilson away from Texas.

"Son, Nobody is half as good as Mickey Mantle"

by ntrokel on Oct 13, 2011 1:31 AM EDT up reply actions  

Beckett might be available

If the Boston Herald dictates the way things go for the Sox anyway.

But seriously, another option might be Paul Malholm. He had good numbers in Pittsburgh but they didn’t want to spend $9 million on him so he’s going to be a free agent. If he can be had for a good price he might make a good #4 or #5. Worth a shot anyway.

by Branta on Oct 13, 2011 4:59 PM EDT reply actions  

Or available for trade

MLBTR said his option would be declined, fangraphs says he might be traded

by Branta on Oct 13, 2011 5:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

He's back of the rotation fodder...

I do like CJ Wilson and the lack of mileage on his arm despite his age and I am intrigued by Darvish…

However, another way to look at it is that the Yankees won 97 games this year with a rag tag rotation. We can reasonably expect Hughes to be better. We can hope that Nova wasn’t pitching above his head. It might be a worthwhile strategy to pick up a couple of back-enders and let them compete with the Warrens, Betances’, Phelps and Noesis of the world and hope that something of value shakes loose at the trade deadline.

I haven’t really decided if I’m for or against Wilson or Darvish, but if we’re unsure on either it’s better to wait it out than make a 5 or 6-year mistake.

by Let's Talk About Tex Baby on Oct 13, 2011 6:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

One other SP who I believe is a FA is Buerhle & for a year or 2 would help in the 2 or 3 spot. Look at his numbers, they are really not that bad. He may not be that expensive either & is better than Danks.

by gman1253 on Oct 14, 2011 12:04 PM EDT reply actions  

Buerhle is better than Danks?

Why? Because he threw that perfect game that one time?

by waw on Oct 14, 2011 1:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

Or how about they get neither and get a starter than can actually help this team?

Let us all congratulate the Boston Red Sox for becoming the first World Champions in the history of sports to NOT make the postseason! Thats not easy to do!

by nyyrocks29 on Oct 14, 2011 5:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

One reason that Buehrle is not on the list

Is he’s made it very clear that it’s CHW, STL, or retirement.

by PortlandYankee on Oct 14, 2011 7:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

Comments For This Post Are Closed


FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recommended FanPosts

Moe_small
The Great RISP Dilemma of 2012
Newjedi_small
On Gary Sanchez

Recent FanPosts

Small
Interpreting stats: regression to mean vs regression towards a mean
Me_small
Five Reasons A-Rod Won't Hit For Power Anymore
Swell_small
We Can Do Better
129090373127704989_small
Cole Hamels, the Phillies woes, & the Yankees
Lebron_james_chalk_wallpaper_by_rhurst-d31f5ld_small
DRob the Putz
Small
Mo's ACL
Moar_bacon_small
The Captain Calls a Players Only Meeting
Mickey-mantle-at-yankee-stadium-1963-photographic-print-c10115880_small
Wow, so now where do we stand?

+ New FanPost All FanPosts >

Yahoo_full_count

Managers

Mo_rivera_small Travis G

Nsapcs7_extr_small Brandon C.

Writers

Moar_bacon_small Lord Duggan

V5zevr_small WhatwouldJeterdo

Costanza_small I'mGivingYouARaise

Cone_coffeez_small Andrew GM

Newjedi_small Jedi Master A-Rod

T128_small Rob Steingall

Don-mattingly_small William Juliano