Bring Back Nick Swisher
by Brandon C. on Oct 11, 2011 1:04 PM EDT
in New York Yankees Analysis
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PrintThe Yankees ALDS loss to the Detroit Tigers led to many people saying they do not want the Yankees to pick up Nick Swisher's $10 million club option for the 2012 season. Yes, I understand that people are upset and stuff, but how does letting Nick Swisher go make any sense?
Yes, Swisher did struggle in the extremely small sample size 2011 playoffs, but his 2011 season was fantastic. Swisher hit 23 home runs, drove in 85 RBI, all while his OBP added up to .374.
To respect the .374 OBP to the fullest amount, one must realize that on a team with Robinson Cano, Brett Gardner, Curtis Granderson, and Mark Teixeira, Swisher's OBP led the entire team.
The other options for right field are less than appealing. Looking at the free agent market, the best options are Ryan Ludwick, Carlos Beltran, Grady Sizemore, Michael Cuddyer, or Josh Willingham.
Swisher out hits and out plays all of the above, except maybe Beltran. The problem with simply letting Swish go and going after Beltran is that Beltran could demand a deal of up to three years for up to $42 million, or even more. If the Yankees balk at that deal, which they should, Swisher can demand more money.
There is no logical reason for letting Nick Swisher go other than pure frustration. Frustration doesn't make for smart baseball decisions.
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He is a Type A free agent so there is good compensation. That compensation plus a guy like Beltran wouldn’t be too bad of an option.
Not saying it’s what I would do, but there is certainly logic behind it.
Contributing writer for Pinstripe Alley.
by Frank Campagnola on Oct 11, 2011 1:09 PM EDT reply actions
There's better options next year
And unless Swisher completely fails this upcoming year, he’ll be a Type A free agent next season too.
Let us all congratulate the Boston Red Sox for becoming the first World Champions in the history of sports to NOT make the postseason! Thats not easy to do!
of course you bring back Swisher
He’s better then what else is on the market, simple as that.
Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows
if you believe in contract years, you should believe in Nick Swisher
He’s a very good player entering the last year of his deal. He’ll be 31, so he’s got to know this is his last chance to get a big, multi-year contract. I know there’s some evidence that the idea of a player having a big contract year is overblown, but there’s also evidence that there’s something to it – that guys step it up in the last year of their contracts. I’m going to be an optimist and pencil Swisher in for .285/.400/.520 next year, plus good defense and a good clubhouse personality/fan favorite, and if you can find that lying around for $10 million or less, take it.
by long time listener on Oct 11, 2011 1:16 PM EDT reply actions
You’re penciling him in for a 26 point increase in OBP? And if he slugged over .500 it’d only be the second time in his career he’s done that.
Seems a little bullish on Swish
Contributing writer for Pinstripe Alley.
by Frank Campagnola on Oct 11, 2011 1:19 PM EDT up reply actions
that's a career year
Maybe I’d erase the .400 OBP and knock it down to .390, but I feel pretty comfortable predicting around .400.
by long time listener on Oct 11, 2011 1:48 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m not so sure the frustration with Swisher is only this postseason. He’s been pretty awful in every series he’s played in with the Yanks except for the 2010 ALDS.
Contributing writer for Pinstripe Alley.
by Frank Campagnola on Oct 11, 2011 1:17 PM EDT reply actions
Here is an interesting scenario, per Buster Olney
What if the Yankees could trade Swisher for prospects, then use those prospects plus some of their own to get Joey Votto and put HIM in RF (granted, he has all of 6 G of OF experience in MLB)?
That’s two years of control for an MVP-level hitter. There are drawbacks (position change; adds to a LH heavy lineup), but isn’t that a deal that you at least look at?
I think Buster should wait till he's done shrooming before he makes up scenarios
Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows
People said the same thing when Rosenthal reported that Halladay and Lee would be in the same deal.
Contributing writer for Pinstripe Alley.
by Frank Campagnola on Oct 11, 2011 2:31 PM EDT up reply actions
TRIPPING
"in order that you will write correctly of wat you really see if you dint go around with your eyes shut"
Cricket blog?
Or, you know, go otu and try the same thing w. Matt Kemp
Trade Swisher, use those prospects + our prospects to trade for and then extend Kemp.
by PortlandYankee on Oct 11, 2011 1:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Id do it with one twist...
Granderson stead of swisher. Yea i know the gold glove defense, the homers, the steals. but he still strikes out a ton and i dont think that will get better. if ya did that proposed deal put votto in left shift Gardy to center. would it work, I dont know. but hey worth at least a look like he said.
Strikeouts: still not the end of the world if you are ridiculously productive when you aren't striking out.
Grandy was.
Jesus Montero fangirl
by WhatwouldJeterdo on Oct 11, 2011 6:12 PM EDT up reply actions
There is a logic to trading Granderson
His value will never be higher than it is now, his glove can be replaced in CF, and he has 2 years of cheap control left.
A straight Kemp for Grandy swap could very well work for both sides.
by PortlandYankee on Oct 11, 2011 6:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Because they don't think they can extend Kemp long term
Which may be more the result of their crappy ownership situation than any financial constraints.
by PortlandYankee on Oct 11, 2011 6:32 PM EDT up reply actions
hmm i thought he had more years of arbitration, but i don’t seeing the dodger doing it. They won’t take verterans most likely and want prospects for the future.
He has one year of Arb left, and he said he won’t talk extension with LAD if it doesn’t happen this offseason. He looks to make $15-16 million in Arb.
Now this is all pretty speculative, since the Dodgers think they can extend Kershaw, Kemp & Ethier. But it is also possible that he talks fall through, and they decide to trade him before FA.
There are basically two OF that the Yankees should consider grabbing in a sign-and-trade: J Upton & Matt Kemp. If that doesn’t happen, then it would be better to keep what we have for another year or two.
by PortlandYankee on Oct 11, 2011 6:45 PM EDT up reply actions
Why do we need Kemp?
"WHO WOULD LEAD?! THE CLOWN?!"
by I'mGivingYouARaise on Oct 11, 2011 6:23 PM EDT up reply actions
1) Entering his Age 27 season, a year away from FA.
2) Nearly identical career wOBAs (364 Kemp, 363 Grandy), but Kemp did it in a harder run environment (wRC 126 to Grandy’s 121). Slightly more power than Grandy, better speed,
3) Put up identical WAR to Granderson over the last 3 years (14.1 Kemp to 13.4 Grandy), even with a lost 2010.
In other words, he’s a young superstar on a franchise going down in flames, whereas Granderson just had a career year and he’s just hit the wrong side of 30.
A Kemp-Gardner-Swisher OF would be awesome. A Gardner-Granderson-Kemp OF would be even better.
by PortlandYankee on Oct 11, 2011 6:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Probably
But who ever saw the Tigers moving Granderson?
Probably the Dodgers extend Kemp and this all becomes moot, but Cash should at least kick the tires.
by PortlandYankee on Oct 11, 2011 6:46 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm not big on superstars or gobbling them up like that
Grandy’s fine and by the time he’s ready to go we will probably have a couple players in the minors ready to replace him.
We made it without Kemp so I say go with what we’ve got.
"WHO WOULD LEAD?! THE CLOWN?!"
by I'mGivingYouARaise on Oct 11, 2011 6:44 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree and was sayin that all year...
But its true tho, why would LA do that… they wouldnt but ya could always try, and maybe sweeten the pot. My logic for gettin kemp was to bolster the right handed power on the team. outside of Arod whos in decline, there no true right handed power threat on this team… that was why i advocated Kemp… but hey one can dream..
Conveniently, we have a brand new catcher who is a great right handed power threat.
Jesus Montero fangirl
by WhatwouldJeterdo on Oct 11, 2011 6:30 PM EDT up reply actions
Matt Kemp struck out 23.1% of the time this season. 23.4% for his career (higher than Granderson).
Dealbreaker, amirite?
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by Jedi Master A-Rod on Oct 11, 2011 6:30 PM EDT up reply actions
Seriously whats with this fucking obession with strike outs?
Since when they did become a tell all stat? Oh yea a guy strikes out a lot therefor he can;t possibly be a good player. Fucking stupid.
It's the new batting average, for real.
Jesus Montero fangirl
by WhatwouldJeterdo on Oct 11, 2011 6:24 PM EDT up reply actions
Stupid???
Tell me when hes up what you expectin from granderson, homer or strikeout? Idf bout you but i always expect the strikeout. And whats the obsession? how bout the obsession with gettin a fucking hit stead of striking out every time your up with guys on base!!!! Is that just too much to ask??? judging from the resluts this year, it was too much to ask…
Yeah, Granderson didn't do anything this year. Friggin bum.
Jesus Montero fangirl
by WhatwouldJeterdo on Oct 11, 2011 6:31 PM EDT up reply actions
Not in the playoffs when it mattered most..
In game 5 not one of them came through… yea cano homered… with the bases EMPTY… same thing with grandersons homer in game 2… bases empty…I know all bout the overall numbers… im talking about the ones that mattered most and those are the numbers that have us sittin home right now..
Are we watching the same Games?
Or are you really that dumb? He hit 42 homeruns, 10 triples, 26 doubles and a .364 OBP. Are you fucking serious when you say all he does is strike out or hits a homerun or are you really just that stupid. Oh no he strikes out sometimes, that obviously negates everything else he does…Holy shit i’ve had enough of these fucking moron like this guy. I hate Yankees fans like you. The guy is the best player on the team for the year and suddenly he sucks once the season ends and you morons forget everything he’s done. Do us a favor and stop being a fan.
by lololol on Oct 11, 2011 6:34 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Seriously??
I make and arguement for my opinion CIVILLY i might add and its F this and F that… why dont u stop bein a fan cus its fans like you who give us a bad name… dont agree so just cuss the hell outa them yea that’ll show em.. yea big tough guy…
Cry me a river. Sue me for not liking stupid posts and being annoyed at them. We’d had enough of dumb ideas going around and it’s getting to a point of frustration. You are not helping.
For the record im not here to help
Its an open forum for open discussion. And another one for the record SHOW me where i ever said Granderson wasnt a good player… i just chose to look a little deeper than just overall season numbers…
your babbling about expecting him to strike out every time like:
“Idf bout you but i always expect the strikeout.” Or
“how bout the obsession with gettin a fucking hit stead of striking out every time your up with guys on base!!!! Is that just too much to ask??? judging from the resluts this year, it was too much to ask…”
Yea totally not implying Grandy was bad. and oh btw your “Looking deeper” is ground breaking analysis. It’s picking out random stuff that don’t mean much and trying to make a point out of nothing.
Yea i wasnt...
I wasnt IMPLYING anything at all…. I was speaking my mind. Never said he was bad. just didnt come up big. just like the rest of the lineup.
Thats your opinion and your entitled to it.
Just like im entitled to mine.
6 PAs with RISP. On base 3 times.
Scrub
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by Jedi Master A-Rod on Oct 11, 2011 6:59 PM EDT up reply actions
No i’m pretty sure calling a guy out for striking out too much then derailing him for not being able to hit is implying the guy was bad.
Imply: To express or indicate indirectly…
I said he was bad in a certain spot
Never said he was a bad player as a whole.
When in fact he wasn’t…
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by Jedi Master A-Rod on Oct 11, 2011 7:04 PM EDT up reply actions
I will agree to nothing because you’re completely wrong
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by Jedi Master A-Rod on Oct 11, 2011 7:06 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Stats are pesky like that.
Jesus Montero fangirl
by WhatwouldJeterdo on Oct 11, 2011 7:08 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Ok im wrong to you and your wrong to me.
What i wanna know from everybody here is why when somebody outside the “circle” posts his opinion he gets hammered so bad. So what, hes wrong or whatever? Dont we all support the same team? or did i miss something?? we all have different opnions and points of view, thats a given. but in the end are we all on the samw team or not??
People who post things that facts directly contradict "get hammered".
Jesus Montero fangirl
by WhatwouldJeterdo on Oct 11, 2011 7:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Um, I posted the only response you need.
You rolled up claiming things that are wrong and hide behind “well it’s my opinion” even though what actually happened directly disagrees with you. That’s why you got the responses you did. It has nothing to do with what team any of us pull for. Your opinion wasn’t based on facts, so you got told as much.
Jesus Montero fangirl
by WhatwouldJeterdo on Oct 11, 2011 7:16 PM EDT up reply actions
Respond to what? You’re whining about circles and cliques and stuff because you got told after posting a bunch of bullshit with nothing to back it up.
Rooting for the same team doesn’t give you a free pass to do that.
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by Jedi Master A-Rod on Oct 11, 2011 7:17 PM EDT up reply actions
.
The artful muppet formerly known as KrmtDfrog.
Please read my sardonic wit and over-blown sense of self over at headkicklegend.com
by Cory Braiterman on Oct 11, 2011 7:26 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Hmmmm.
"in order that you will write correctly of wat you really see if you dint go around with your eyes shut"
Cricket blog?
by MattF15 on Oct 11, 2011 6:50 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
It happens when they win, too
I think our tolerance is a bit higher when we’re high on success (or, just plain high)
Yeah, we need more fans who can’t be satisfied with MVP candidates because they strikeout too much so they have to pine for MVP candidates on other teams who strikeout too much.
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by Jedi Master A-Rod on Oct 11, 2011 6:44 PM EDT up reply actions
Never said that..
Just threw it out there while we were talking bout trading swisher. Never said wasnt satisfied with Grandy. But if you could get a 27 yr old 5 tool CF over a 31 yr 5 tool CF wouldnt u do it???
And what would they ask??
The Bs?? yes i want them to develop just as much as you do, but to get somethin great you gotta give up somethin.
Trade away organizational pitching depth for an impending free agent. Sure.
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by Jedi Master A-Rod on Oct 11, 2011 6:52 PM EDT up reply actions
Talk to me in 5 years and tell me if its depth or bust...
The yankees are worried bout both Bs. Betances is gettin older and still has control issues. Manny also has the same issues but is still only 20 so id give him some time. but anybody else would be fair game. and as for impending free agent, im PRETTY sure hed get a new conract.
Anyone else shouldn't be fair game.
Trading away the farm for the next whim to come along is what screwed up the organization.
Jesus Montero fangirl
by WhatwouldJeterdo on Oct 11, 2011 6:56 PM EDT up reply actions
Love to argue all night guys
But work is callin. time to go. have fun tearin me up. its all good cus we’re all on the same side last i checked.
hey its true...
Some so called stranger just cus hes not a regular here, posts his honest opinion and all hell breaks loose, sayin hes dumb hes stupid… ok i get it, you can only say it so many times… we’ll all just agree to disagree thats all there is to it.
Ok
Pause :
In PSA we pause every comment that has double meaning (it, hard, deep, wet, long, tear, balls, etc)
Part of the culture here.
The quest for excellence is eternal.
Strikes out too much and it won’t get better
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by Jedi Master A-Rod on Oct 11, 2011 6:48 PM EDT up reply actions
I would like to point out that the Kemp idea wasn’t even yours, but rather PortlandYankees and he actually backed up his reasoning. Meanwhile your original post said we should trade for Votto and move him to the OF.
Joey Votto…okay now lets take a moment and reflect on that.
by lololol on Oct 11, 2011 6:53 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
^ this
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by Jedi Master A-Rod on Oct 11, 2011 6:54 PM EDT up reply actions
I'd rather read "fuck" than "u"
by MichaelGGBGrabow on Oct 12, 2011 12:46 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I like Swisher, but his position is the only place to shake things up.
I think the offense needs a change and Swisher’s spot is the only real spot to do it. If Montero is full time DH/Catcher in 2012, all other positions are locked up. I think they need to pick the option up, but explore the trade market and maybe Beltran?
by upstateNYYFan1984 on Oct 11, 2011 1:46 PM EDT via iPhone app reply actions
Speaking of Nick Swisher
He has an album that just came out today:
Nick Swisher – Believe
http://www.allmusic.com/album/r2300526
Possibly this would be worth a fan shot or something…
For those of you saying Beltran
The problem with simply letting Swish go and going after Beltran is that Beltran could demand a deal of up to three years for up to $42 million, or even more. If the Yankees balk at that deal, which they should, Swisher can demand more money.
You’re really willing to do that just to shake things up?
Follow me on twitter @nyybrandonc
Writer/Editor for Pinstripe Alley, Blueshirt Banter
"No matter what I talk about, I always get back to baseball."
"Every day is a great day for hockey."
Where do you get three years, $42MM? I haven’t read or seen that anywhere.
Contributing writer for Pinstripe Alley.
by Frank Campagnola on Oct 11, 2011 2:29 PM EDT up reply actions
Some sportswriter said that’s what the projection is, and I believe it. There will be multiple teams pursuing him.
Follow me on twitter @nyybrandonc
Writer/Editor for Pinstripe Alley, Blueshirt Banter
"No matter what I talk about, I always get back to baseball."
"Every day is a great day for hockey."
If Johnny Damon could only get that one year deal after 2009, no shot Beltran touches $42MM.
Contributing writer for Pinstripe Alley.
by Frank Campagnola on Oct 11, 2011 9:44 PM EDT up reply actions
Those are two completely different cases.
Follow me on twitter @nyybrandonc
Writer/Editor for Pinstripe Alley, Blueshirt Banter
"No matter what I talk about, I always get back to baseball."
"Every day is a great day for hockey."
Not really. Both are/were aging outfielders coming off pretty good years.
Contributing writer for Pinstripe Alley.
by Frank Campagnola on Oct 11, 2011 11:14 PM EDT up reply actions
And if you keep doing the same thing over and over
How can you be suprised with the same results.
Congrats to all who have turned PA into the Yahoo comment boards. New it couldn't last forever. Damn idiots had to go and win the World Series. The dude at the 7 eleven keeps saying fat man in undearwear punch my eye.
by cashman bashman on Oct 11, 2011 8:12 PM EDT up reply actions
Thank you Bardawg
there is an awful lot of shortsightedness going on. last month he was unanimously considered to stay on next season, but now he’s gone? Do we really need to continue to blame single players for the ALDS? Swisher is here to get on base and he’s very good at it.
not unanimous
never has been unanimous, he is a showboat with below average defense, below average arm, too many K’s, and the PS results are not there in his years with this team.
What theatrics?
Jesus Montero fangirl
by WhatwouldJeterdo on Oct 11, 2011 3:07 PM EDT up reply actions
that thing where he catches the ball, and then smiles?
Yeah, that’s an embarrassment to the organization
Someone needs to publicly stone him, Andruw Jones, and occasionally Robbie to end such behavior.
Jesus Montero fangirl
by WhatwouldJeterdo on Oct 11, 2011 3:09 PM EDT up reply actions
That means that Soriano is a true Yankee!
Let us all congratulate the Boston Red Sox for becoming the first World Champions in the history of sports to NOT make the postseason! Thats not easy to do!
The reverse is not necessarily true!
As a purely arbitrary example:
All Red Sox fans are losers. But, not all losers are Red Sox fans!
Woah.
Flashback to philosophy 101.
Keep flying, stay shiny.
by noonoo on Oct 11, 2011 5:39 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I took sociology instead!
"WHO WOULD LEAD?! THE CLOWN?!"
by I'mGivingYouARaise on Oct 11, 2011 5:40 PM EDT up reply actions
The smiling and the saluting to the fans
He’s so embarrassing! Having fun on the field should be made illegal!
Let us all congratulate the Boston Red Sox for becoming the first World Champions in the history of sports to NOT make the postseason! Thats not easy to do!
To be fair...
Having fun and saluting at Yankee Stadium is against the rules
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by Jedi Master A-Rod on Oct 11, 2011 3:13 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Oh.
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by Jedi Master A-Rod on Oct 11, 2011 3:04 PM EDT up reply actions
He's had a 3+ WAR every season he's been here
Other than being bad in the playoffs, I don’t get the rest of your grudge against Swisher. Did he kick your dog or something?
lets see, is that why last year Golson took his place in RF as a defensive replacement and this year it was Dickerson?
Paul O'Neill is not walking through that door
If we could replace Swisher with 1927 Babe Ruth, I’d do it in a heartbeat. But let’s evaluate Swisher against possible replacements. Once you do that, it’s clear that there are no viable options that improve the team.
by long time listener on Oct 11, 2011 3:57 PM EDT up reply actions
You mean the guy who punted the baseball because he got pissed and struck out 14% of the time over his career?
Oh.
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by Jedi Master A-Rod on Oct 11, 2011 4:01 PM EDT up reply actions
Good thing he makes up for it by walking more than Paulie did
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by Jedi Master A-Rod on Oct 11, 2011 4:06 PM EDT up reply actions
makes up for 125 to 140 K’s/year, goes like 1 for 30 in hitting with RISP in his PS play, please. Paul didn’t need to walk, he hit and hit in the clutch, and his defense and arm were head and tails over Swisher. Paul Oneil was not a stud when he came to the Yankess, he was when he retired, so lets not say there are not alternatives out there. The secret is finding them.
Sure. There are tons of alternatives for 3.5-4 win right fielders.
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by Jedi Master A-Rod on Oct 11, 2011 4:17 PM EDT up reply actions
This is dangerously approaching irrational Grandy hatred territory.
Just below irrational A-Rod hatred territory.
Jesus Montero fangirl
by WhatwouldJeterdo on Oct 11, 2011 5:23 PM EDT up reply actions
Grandy strikes out a lot and takes bad routes in center sometimes. He’s no Bernie Williams.
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by Jedi Master A-Rod on Oct 11, 2011 5:29 PM EDT up reply actions
are you seriously gonna say Swisher is better than Paul O’Neill? and you call everybody else an idiot?
Find where I said either one of those things. Go on, I’ll wait.
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by Jedi Master A-Rod on Oct 11, 2011 9:07 PM EDT up reply actions
ugh, stupid font in tight places
Paull O’neill was better in every aspect of the game, even in the areas where he wasn’t (sarcasm!). There.
Find where I said either one of those things. Go on, I’ll wait.
Still waiting
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by Jedi Master A-Rod on Oct 11, 2011 9:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Good to see that everyone who gets called out for saying something stupid has to resort to blaming some conspiracy about the clique.
Jesus Montero fangirl
by WhatwouldJeterdo on Oct 11, 2011 9:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Those are ok theatrics.
Jesus Montero fangirl
by WhatwouldJeterdo on Oct 11, 2011 4:11 PM EDT up reply actions
Destroying water coolers too. Perfectly acceptable
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by Jedi Master A-Rod on Oct 11, 2011 4:14 PM EDT up reply actions
so you are saying that replacement cost for water coolers is worth more than paying a player 10 million/year to hit 1 for 30 in the PS with RISP and amuse us all with his 3 hopper throws to the plate and his crying to the HP ump when he just took a pitch down Broadway for strike three looking? Oh I forgot RF in yankee stadium is one of the deepest OF’s in MLB
What the hell are you on about? Take a fucking hike
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by Jedi Master A-Rod on Oct 11, 2011 4:30 PM EDT up reply actions
relax
Whats wrong, don’t care for the truth? No need to go having a hissy fit, I understand all the man crush toward Swisher.
The truth is Swisher has been one of the top nine rightfielders in all of baseball each of the last three years. Players of his caliber don’t just grow on trees.
I am sure you are correct. Its his defense, K’s and mostly his PS numbers that upset me so much. I hope someday we find a replacement that plays to his potential, both in season and in the post season
Strikeouts are not nearly the big deal you and others are making them.
Jesus Montero fangirl
by WhatwouldJeterdo on Oct 11, 2011 5:18 PM EDT up reply actions
Deal with it
Lots of patient hitters strike out. Also, guess what? Swisher wasn’t the only one to not hit in the postseason. A lot of the players who actually got us to the postseason with their bat didn’t hit in the postseason, and the one player who contributed little to nothing with his bat in the regular season did hit in the postseason.
So are you actually suggesting that we get players who only hit in the PS rather than ones that actually get us there? Shit happens. Hitting goes into a slump. Hitters, even good ones, strikeout. The playoffs are a completely crapshoot. More often than not it’s the hottest team at the time that wins rather than the best team. Swisher was not the only reason we lost.
And also, the right field fans LOVES the fact the he salutes them and says what’s up to them before the game starts. I’ve been in the clubhouse and the players LOVE his good hearted nature and “showboating” or whatever you want to call it. So deal with it.
"WHO WOULD LEAD?! THE CLOWN?!"
by I'mGivingYouARaise on Oct 11, 2011 5:40 PM EDT up reply actions
your absolutely right
Arod didnt hit and I can justify that in my head as he was recently coming off, or still bothered by recent inuries. Tex didn’t perform and I think that possibly with his regular season numbers combined, that maybe his uppercut swing is catching up to him and pitchers have discovered his number. Martin didn’t hit well either but not much was expected from him, at least from me, he does hit at the bottom of the order, and Joe is in his corner so he won’t even pitch hit for him in situations that it may well be called for. That left me with Swisher to be angry with. I have been a die hard yankee fan for over fifty years, yes going back to the late fifties they have been my team. So I didnt mean to single any player out, I want them all to be the best they can be for their time as yankee players. And yes you are correct about slumps, players do go cold at times, but with Swisher it has been his every post season, so I can’t justify his performance to a simple slump at the wrong time. And how many times have I read that this teams post season is all that matters, anything less than a championship is a failure. So, yes, I put more importance on post season than regular season. Now with all that being said, I do deal with it, and this soon after an early exit that should not have been I do carry some anger. And I envy your experiences having been in the clubhouse seeing first hand the team.
" So, yes, I put more importance on post season than regular season."
You need a good regular season performance to get into the postseason. Go ask the Red Sox.
by lololol on Oct 11, 2011 6:13 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Honestly, people really need to get over the late 90's dynasty
To do what that team did is really really hard. To win 4 Word Series championships in 5 years is insane. To even get to the World Series 5 times in 6 years is insane. That era of Yankees baseball was wonderful, glorious, and it 100% spoiled a lot of fans just like I knew it was going to back then. The playoffs, especially with the Wild Card addition, are a complete crapshoot, because even the worst of teams can win a Best 3 out of 5 series over a superior team occasionally. This year proved this fact more than any other. Except for the Rangers/Rays series, each Division Series with to the 5th game, and each one literally came down to the last pitch. The Phillies came into the postseason with the most dominant starting rotation, and they still lost. No matter what people or writers or the FO say about the postseason being all that matters, it is not. The regular season is a much better judge of how your team and players have performed that year than the postseason is. The Yankees & Red Sox both proved this fact to be true this year.
"WHO WOULD LEAD?! THE CLOWN?!"
by I'mGivingYouARaise on Oct 11, 2011 6:13 PM EDT up reply actions
And by Word Series, I meant Words with Friends championships. That's really hard.
/damn lack of edit button
"WHO WOULD LEAD?! THE CLOWN?!"
by I'mGivingYouARaise on Oct 11, 2011 6:14 PM EDT up reply actions
is that a new stat?
WARCfWC
(wins above replacement cost for water coolers)
by sing_or_die_1818 on Oct 11, 2011 10:40 PM EDT up reply actions
Paul O Niel had 6 years of below average defense with us. 3 years of great defense. so you really shouldn’t be knocking swish’s defense
so you agree with what I stated earlier, Paulie O was not a stud when he came to the yankees, we was when he retired.
Sure, but Swisher has been decent defensively has well he ranges between Average to above average right now. O Neil’s bet defensive years came towards the end of his career with his, but it’s not enough to make up for his bad defense in his first few years. But off course his bad defense is in part made up for by being great at the plate. Swish’s offense may not be as good as O Neil’s at his peak but he’s provided good overall value as Paul in his first 3 years with us.
Plus
He’s such a jolly individual!
"WHO WOULD LEAD?! THE CLOWN?!"
by I'mGivingYouARaise on Oct 11, 2011 2:07 PM EDT reply actions
Swisher is only like 31, good OF, decent arm, good power and doesn’t cost a lot.
All the players you suggested are on the wrong side of 30, most didn’t hit .250,&
most don’t have swisher’s power.
You left out Melky Cabrera, 27 yrs old, 18 HRs, 87 RBI, 20 SB, BA of .305. and an
EXCELLENT OF. With Cabrera in RF, Yanks would have 3 starting guys in the OF
capable of playing a SOLID CF.
10 million is a lot
but this is the yankees. too much moneyball. Melky isn’t a terrible option, but there’s no real reason to shake things up just for the sake of shaking things up.
The artful muppet formerly known as KrmtDfrog.
Please read my sardonic wit and over-blown sense of self over at headkicklegend.com
by Cory Braiterman on Oct 11, 2011 2:37 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't drink
But from what I’ve heard too much sake WILL shake things up.
"WHO WOULD LEAD?! THE CLOWN?!"
by I'mGivingYouARaise on Oct 11, 2011 2:41 PM EDT up reply actions
Melky Cabrera has one good year and has sucked every other year
He is a terrible fielder btw and is a downgrade at every OF position.
Melky moved to a weaker division and had a career year at the plate
No way would I call the stats he had this year a good indication of what to expect if he came back to the Yankees. Is there a chance he’s suddenly become a much better hitter? Sure. Would I get rid of Swisher to take that chance? No way.
Melky's nothing more than a fourth outfielder
If they want him back as a fourth outfielder, then sure. Otherwise, no way. His days of starting in center field for the Yankees are over (though I appreciate the clutch hits he got).
Let us all congratulate the Boston Red Sox for becoming the first World Champions in the history of sports to NOT make the postseason! Thats not easy to do!
Is Melky even a FA? I know he is in 2013
Follow me on twitter @nyybrandonc
Writer/Editor for Pinstripe Alley, Blueshirt Banter
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Probably not when considering who is advocating to get him
I’m not sure on Melky though, where as I know that Castro and Andrus are nowhere near free agency.
Let us all congratulate the Boston Red Sox for becoming the first World Champions in the history of sports to NOT make the postseason! Thats not easy to do!
but they'd have Melky, who sucks
Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows
That's reason enough that we don't need him, then.
Jesus Montero fangirl
by WhatwouldJeterdo on Oct 11, 2011 2:17 PM EDT up reply actions
Could have used a guy who could do a squeeze play bunt with all the guys we were
leaving on base during the playoffs.
you don't get a guy specifically for that
if you have someone who can do that, fine, but don’t tailor your team for some stupid situation that may never work
I would have cried
I’d rather have him swinging and striking out in 20 straight ABs then ever laying down a bunt.
Let us all congratulate the Boston Red Sox for becoming the first World Champions in the history of sports to NOT make the postseason! Thats not easy to do!
bunting is a terrible thing to do
Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows
Ew Bunt?
"You kind of took it for granted around the Yankees that there was always going to be baseball in October." - Hall of Fame Pitcher Whitey Ford
by DarthYankee on Oct 15, 2011 12:55 AM EDT up reply actions
you have to bring him back
If we learned anything from the Red Sox lack of collapse due to lack of leadership, you cant base these decisions solely on numbers. Swisher was instrumental in changing the culture on this team which lead to the high energy play and never say die attitude (as evident in all the walk offs that season) which lead to a WS win. You need to consider the impact on the club house. We are (likely) losing Jorge, the most competitive guy on the team. If you get rid of Swish this team will be full of introverts. Watch the team on the field before a game. Swish is getting guys motivated. Everyone likes him. Players are smiling. I just dont want to see this go back to being a club house full of head cases who dont talk to each other.
The guy is huge with the fans. He has a ton of twitter followers. Hes loved by the community. He sells a lot of T shirts.
There are a ton of reasons why Id keep him over any of the other guys listed beyond numbers.
May Doug Marrone bless you and keep you.
He also had 13 OF assists and 7 double plays as a result of
OF assists.
I guess I forgot he has an excellent arm and release as well.
there's a reply button
you really should learn to use it
The artful muppet formerly known as KrmtDfrog.
Please read my sardonic wit and over-blown sense of self over at headkicklegend.com
by Cory Braiterman on Oct 11, 2011 2:42 PM EDT up reply actions
Don't bother
Believe me, I’ve brought it up!
"WHO WOULD LEAD?! THE CLOWN?!"
by I'mGivingYouARaise on Oct 11, 2011 2:43 PM EDT up reply actions
He’s been warned twice on the topic.
Contributing writer for Pinstripe Alley.
by Frank Campagnola on Oct 11, 2011 2:54 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh good
Since I know he won’t stop, he should be banned soon
"WHO WOULD LEAD?! THE CLOWN?!"
by I'mGivingYouARaise on Oct 11, 2011 2:56 PM EDT up reply actions
You like it when Melky releases don’t you?
Rec Generating Database
Jedi Master A-Rod is a poster on Pinstripe Alley. He can be reached by clicking the "Reply" button below his comments.
by Jedi Master A-Rod on Oct 11, 2011 2:42 PM EDT up reply actions
he has a good arm and terrible range
And it’s not a one year year thing…he’s been like this for his career
You don't even understand the talent he must have to throw the ball like that.
Hater.
Jesus Montero fangirl
by WhatwouldJeterdo on Oct 11, 2011 2:57 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Stop feeding the troll
I propose that until frankiec learns to use the reply button the only response he gets from his posts is LEARN TO USE THE REPLY BUTTON. On that note…
LEARN TO USE THE REPLY BUTTON
"Son, Nobody is half as good as Mickey Mantle"
No doubt about it, I like Swisher as a player and as a person.
But Cabrera is an option for Cashman or Cashman’s replacement
if he doesn’t bring Swisher back. I also know Swisher strikes out a
lot, but he only had 30 more strikeouts than base on balls.
DUDE, GRANDY STRUCK OUT LIKE 4992393949 TIMES THIS YEAR.
MANTLE NEVER DID THAT SHIT.
Jesus Montero fangirl
by WhatwouldJeterdo on Oct 11, 2011 2:56 PM EDT up reply actions
Are you trying to say we should reanimate Mantle's corpse?
Keep flying, stay shiny.
by noonoo on Oct 11, 2011 5:45 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Mantle struck out alot
Mantle averaged 100 strike outs a season when healthy. He had the single season Yankee record for strikeouts until a guy named Bobby Bonds assumed the title. Guess they should have traded the Mick because of ALL those K’s.
A-Rod strikes out a ton too
Guess that means his entire career has been a failure. You know, the fact that he’s the active leader in home runs means absolutely nothing because of his relatively high strikeout totals!
Let us all congratulate the Boston Red Sox for becoming the first World Champions in the history of sports to NOT make the postseason! Thats not easy to do!
Swisher is not the problem
If Swisher was a free agent and was looking for a 3-4 year deal, I’d say no. But it’s a no brainer to pick up his 1 year option at below market value.
Don't think it's something you need to worry about.
Swisher will be brought back. Next year is the bigger question, but for 2012 he’s going to be a Yankee.
Let us all congratulate the Boston Red Sox for becoming the first World Champions in the history of sports to NOT make the postseason! Thats not easy to do!
You left out Jeff Francoaur, 27 yrs old, 20 HRs, 87 RBI, 22 SB, BA of .285. and an
EXCELLENT OF. With Francoaur in RF, Yanks would have 3 starting guys in the OF
capable of playing a SOLID CF
He also had 16 OF assists and 4 double plays as a result of
OF assists.
I guess I forgot he has an excellent arm and release
(see how easy it is to make a case for Francoeur using his criteria for Melky?)
Too bad he's under contract for 2012-2013
Maybe frankiec and YankeeClipper can do the next courtroom debate:
Melky vs. Francoeur, who is the awesome outfielder the stupid Yankees don’t know they need?
Speaking of which
When Andrus almost dropped that popup last night, I really wanted him to drop it so I could laugh about it here. Petty, I know.
Round 2: Andrus vs Castro?
The idiot formerly known as pkyankeefan! Now in Technicolour!
by Hasan Paliwala on Oct 11, 2011 3:19 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Sure we can--I seem to have read somewhere that they're both free agents...
lol
Just once I'd like someone to call me "Sir," without adding, "You're making a scene."
The problems with the Yankees will evaporate
Most of the problems with the Yankees will evaporate if they can get rid of A-Rod. They should agree to pay half of his salary, that will be the best thing they can do and the cheapest.
Get rid of that guy. The team simply performs better when he is not around.
Sorry for that comment.
Remember to NEVER leave your computer open to your stupid cousins.
The quest for excellence is eternal.
Lets get rid of a 4+ Win player and our problems will be solved! Genius. The problem with Arod is not the player but the money we’re giving him. we get rid of him we save a ton of money but the team preforms worse…
Yup
But wait, he didn’t hit in the ALDS so he sucks and needs to be traded. Unclutch. Only hits in 10+ run games. Stat padder. Not a good clubhouse guy.
Any other ESPN narratives I’m missing?
Let us all congratulate the Boston Red Sox for becoming the first World Champions in the history of sports to NOT make the postseason! Thats not easy to do!
LOL!
So many good jokes going around lately!
Let us all congratulate the Boston Red Sox for becoming the first World Champions in the history of sports to NOT make the postseason! Thats not easy to do!
Reading through these comments made my head hurt.
And I didn’t even read what Barn wrote.
"in order that you will write correctly of wat you really see if you dint go around with your eyes shut"
Cricket blog?
his stuff is even worse
Complete gibberish. What a jerkhole.
Wait, he can’t read this, right?
by long time listener on Oct 11, 2011 6:39 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Why would anyone want Beltran?
He has proven on the Mets and Giants that he cannot be a centerpiece player (al la Zito). He might do well on a star studded line-up like the Yankees but he’d cost more than another year of Swish. I would add a premium for Swish’s attitude. Fun to watch and loves being in NYC adds something to the entertainment value. Keep him.
mlbtraderumors MLB Trade Rumors
Epstein ‘On Cusp’ Of Deal With Cubs bit.ly/pfs3NN #mlb
Cubs Win? Cubs Win?
"WHO WOULD LEAD?! THE CLOWN?!"
by I'mGivingYouARaise on Oct 11, 2011 6:47 PM EDT reply actions
Like Swisher and like his attitude and season numbers
But what DO you do with a guy who may just n-e-v-e-r show up in the play-offs? How long do you carry that — especially in the context of being legitimately criticized for almost a decade’s worth of being built to win Regular Seasons but not Post-Seasons?
Is the now answer just “one more year” only because of his cost comparisons and F/A status — but not because he’s actually THE answer?
How long do you carry that — especially in the context of being legitimately criticized for almost a decade’s worth of being built to win Regular Seasons but not Post-Seasons?
Okay, I’m curious. How exactly do you build a team to win the Post-Season?
"WHO WOULD LEAD?! THE CLOWN?!"
by I'mGivingYouARaise on Oct 11, 2011 7:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Thats the question every GM in baseball wants to know..
If any GM had that answer all the time his team would win every year!!
Or... (by way of proper reply etiquette)
Incrementally, by learning to avoid the things that have not worked for you in post -season’s past. Using Yankees as an example…
Strong rotations.
Line-up with players who don’t fail in post-season.
Now obviously you just can’t go out and do that easily. But let’s frame the conversation correctly to the point I’m trying to make, which is the question of what to do with a player that proves time-and-again he can’t perform in the play-offs but is a good regular season guy. Is it a curse you just have to bear and annually hope for the best? Or with the Yankee mentality of "WS every Year" do you find yourself saying "Good player – but he’s never going to get us there."
Posada was terrible at the plate for the majority of the regular season
Yet hit extremely well in the postseason. Do we keep him just for his postseason bat and deal with his mediocrity all year long? Martin couldn’t hit during the regular season or the postseason, yet he was never pinch hit for or replaced cause of his quality regular season and postseason defense. He performed defensively in the playoffs, not offensively. Should he be replaced? Is the manager at fault for not replacing the players with the bench when they were not hitting? How do you avoid things that have not worked for you in the postseason but work to actually get us there during the regular season?
"WHO WOULD LEAD?! THE CLOWN?!"
by I'mGivingYouARaise on Oct 11, 2011 7:45 PM EDT up reply actions
Well, some answers....
“Do we keep Posada just for his postseason bat and deal with his mediocrity all year long?” YES – if you are honestly building a team to win the post-season, because he would fall in the category of proven post-season asset.
“Martin couldn’t hit during the regular season or the postseason, yet he was never pinch hit for or replaced cause of his quality regular season and postseason defense. He performed defensively in the playoffs, not offensively. Should he be replaced?” DEPENDS on what post-season category you are prioritizing – offense or defense. In the absence of a higher performing hybrid, you would either discard him if you value post-season offense — or keep him if you value post-season defense.
“Is the manager at fault for not replacing the players with the bench when they were not hitting?” ONLY if the manager felt his bench players were upgrade replacements.
“How do you avoid things that have not worked for you in the postseason but work to actually get us there during the regular season?” LOGIC would say by building a roster of proven post-season performers. Now, truth be told…
The Yankees (or any other MLB team) are never going to be purposely built for the post-season because that theoretical model may very well mean (using the Posada example) you’d never make the post-season. The Yankees job #1 is not to win the WS — their job is to “win throughout the regular season” because that’s how they make their money and keep the entire enterprise (and our willing passengership) afloat. The value of Nick Swisher and A-Rod isn’t that they are going to carry us through the month of October — but that they are going to help carry us through April-September. With that kinda Ka-ching in the kompany koffers – even a sudden flameout in the first week of playoffs means little in comparison.
interesting perspective…
May I inject one thought on your posada/martin writing. Yes Martin is the defensive guy and whatever you get from him offensively is a plus. Lets compare this to all those years Jorge was our catcher, we gave up the defense for the offensive production, which model seems to work better?
I'll defer to the hands of each player
let’s count the rings.
A-Rod sucked in the playoffs, right up until 2009
I say, if Swisher continues to help us get there, we continue to be patient with him. He’s going to hit, and get on base, eventually. He’s too good at the plate for that ridiculous BABIP to continue.
No player will suck in the playoffs every time if given enough chances
Especially good players. A-Rod finally caught fire during the postseason in 2009, and it resulted in a championship. I expect Swisher to get hot during the playoffs at some point for this team, and when he does it’ll be great. But he’s too good a player to hit under .200 every single postseason.
Let us all congratulate the Boston Red Sox for becoming the first World Champions in the history of sports to NOT make the postseason! Thats not easy to do!
Perhaps the "A-ha" answer...
Although I think “No player will suck in the playoffs every time if given enough chances” should actually be modified slightly to “No GOOD player will…”
So, given that good players will tend to be good and bad players will tend to be bad, odds are this “No good player will suck in the playoffs every time…” posit would eventually prove to be true. Which means in the case of A-Rod or Swisher, despite mostly career-to-date poor performances in playoffs, the best bet is to stick with them because of their regular season exploits — whereby regular season exploits get you into the post-season — and the more post-seasons they are given the higher their chances to succeed.
Mathematically feasible. (Though I may be dead by then!)
Hopefully the sample...
will grow each year. By, oh…. 11 games?
It's called Google.
It should be relatively easy to find.
Keep flying, stay shiny.
by noonoo on Oct 11, 2011 7:41 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I typed in NooNoogle
"WHO WOULD LEAD?! THE CLOWN?!"
by I'mGivingYouARaise on Oct 11, 2011 7:46 PM EDT up reply actions
did the apples and bananas song come up?
Keep flying, stay shiny.
by noonoo on Oct 11, 2011 7:49 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
No. No it did not sadly
I should’ve type in Boonoonoogle instead!
"WHO WOULD LEAD?! THE CLOWN?!"
by I'mGivingYouARaise on Oct 11, 2011 8:19 PM EDT up reply actions
That should work.
Keep flying, stay shiny.
by noonoo on Oct 11, 2011 8:36 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
x
"in order that you will write correctly of wat you really see if you dint go around with your eyes shut"
Cricket blog?
by MattF15 on Oct 11, 2011 7:24 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Rec Generating Database
Jedi Master A-Rod is a poster on Pinstripe Alley. He can be reached by clicking the "Reply" button below his comments.
by Jedi Master A-Rod on Oct 11, 2011 7:26 PM EDT up reply actions
MAMAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA.............MAMA?
To this day, one of the greatest things I’ve ever seen!
"WHO WOULD LEAD?! THE CLOWN?!"
by I'mGivingYouARaise on Oct 11, 2011 7:28 PM EDT up reply actions
It's pretty awesome.
"in order that you will write correctly of wat you really see if you dint go around with your eyes shut"
Cricket blog?
Incrementally, by learning to avoid the things that have not
worked for you in post -season’s past. Using Yankees as an example…
Strong rotations.
Line-up with players who don’t fail in post-season.
Now obviously you just can’t go out and do that easily. But let’s frame the conversation correctly to the point I’m trying to make, which is the question of what to do with a player that proves time-and-again he can’t perform in the play-offs but is a good regular season guy. Is it a curse you just have to bear and annually hope for the best? Or with the Yankee mentality of “WS every Year” do you find yourself saying “Good player – but he’s never going to get us there.”
My whole brain is crying.
Keep flying, stay shiny.
by noonoo on Oct 11, 2011 8:37 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
good
Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows
by Rorschach44 on Oct 11, 2011 10:28 PM EDT up reply actions
Thanks
Brandon,
Thanks for this post, and the discussions it brought. Other than a few lil curses and a little name calling it was giving of the many different aspects of not only the players discussed but the team in general.
Swisher
Swisher must go. The man strikes out too often, and gets hits in games where the Yanks are way ahead in the score. He never gets a hit when the game is on the line. We need a Paul Oniel type of left fielder., A few left handed starters would be nice.
Last two postseasons
A) .189/.259/.415, .674 OPS, 13 K, 5 BB, 3 RBI
B) .250/.284/.344, .627 OPS, 18 K, 3 BB, 4 RBI
A is our horrible, stat padding right fielder who strikes out too much. B is our valiant, irreplaceable captain.
Oh.
Rec Generating Database
Jedi Master A-Rod is a poster on Pinstripe Alley. He can be reached by clicking the "Reply" button below his comments.
by Jedi Master A-Rod on Oct 11, 2011 11:13 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
This PSA thread bought to you by the words Paul O'Neill and strikeouts.
Jesus Montero fangirl
by WhatwouldJeterdo on Oct 11, 2011 11:30 PM EDT up reply actions
Somethin's rotten in Denmark.
Tiring of the Swisher must go talk. Reasonable alternatives to Nick please?
Ted Williams' famous Red Sox farewell speech: "I consider myself the unluckiest man on the face of the Earth."
by The Yankees on Oct 11, 2011 11:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Seriously whats up with people and strike outs these days? It’s now become the stat of choice for whatever reason.
ground outs > strike outs
Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows
by Rorschach44 on Oct 11, 2011 11:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Is it because ground outs mean bat on ball so...
good things MAY happen? (But what about DP’s with runners on?)
In that case a strike out would be less harmful.
Welcome to the lab
Jeter (Reyes at SS)
IF possible — worthy of consideration?
strikeouts
I can’t believe some of you are trying to make it sound like striking out is not harmful. Or that striking out 125 to 139 times over the course of a season is acceptable.
Strikeouts do nothing productive, while putting the bat on the ball even if making an out can be productive.By at least putting the ball in play you have a chance at a hit, moving a runner over, sacrificing in a run, forcing the defense to make a play without making an error.
1st grade lesson finished for today
It's not the end all be all you and others are trying to make it in specific circumstances.
1st grade lesson finished for today.
Jesus Montero fangirl
by WhatwouldJeterdo on Oct 12, 2011 12:22 AM EDT up reply actions
please educate me
so if it is not the end all be all in specific circumstances then what is productive or helpful to the team when a player strikes out? Sorry, but it feels like I am missing something here cause the only answer I can come up with is by striking out your not chancing the possibility of hitting into a multiple out play.
Striking out does not make a player bad if they are productive when they aren't striking out.
Granderson had an MVP worthy season while leading the team in strike outs. If strike outs were the terrible, horrible, no good, very bad thing some people are portraying them to be, he would not have been able to still be in consideration for the MVP. No one is saying that striking out is awesome, but that a lot of them doesn’t necessary make a player bad or necessary trade bait. Very good players strike out at a high clip. Granderson, Kemp, Bruce, Stanton, etc. They aren’t bad players because they strike out a lot, they are some of the best in the game.
Jesus Montero fangirl
by WhatwouldJeterdo on Oct 12, 2011 1:06 AM EDT up reply actions
OK, I do agree with you that it is part of the game, and some productive hitters will and do strike out more than we would like them to. And I get on Swish cause he is one of those players in that category and, and, his three year consistent post season results such as hitting with RISP, not something I like to see from our #6 hitter, which is why I can more accept it from a Martin, or a Jeter, or a Gardner.
Frustration over his postseason numbers is more justifiable.
I don’t know anyone who is thrilled with how he’s hit in the postseason. However, he’s been very good in the regular season and his strikeouts do not take away from that. Saying he should be gotten rid of because he strikes out a lot is pretty silly, though. We have to get to the playoffs to worry about how certain players perform in the postseason and Swisher definitely helps us get there.
Jesus Montero fangirl
by WhatwouldJeterdo on Oct 12, 2011 1:20 AM EDT up reply actions
agreed, but it wouldn’t hurt my feelings if we signed him at his option and then Cashman dangled him or a package with him included for possibly some needed rotation help. Seems to me quality starting pitchers have become a higher commodity than position players
We have no one to replace him.
Jesus Montero fangirl
by WhatwouldJeterdo on Oct 12, 2011 1:25 AM EDT up reply actions
The Phillies had the best starting rotation going into the postseason
They lost, just like us.
"WHO WOULD LEAD?! THE CLOWN?!"
by I'mGivingYouARaise on Oct 12, 2011 1:28 AM EDT up reply actions
I can agree on that also, so what chance did we have with our starting rotation as it was ? Especially when Nova went down. The only chance we had was in our offense lighting up the boards as they are capable of doing. So I guess that moved my frustration to a higher level when almost half our line up didn’t perform to their capabilities. So I picked Swish to be angry at as it was easier for me to justify Arod, Tex and Martins shortcomings and had Swish performed to what he is capable of we would still be playing this off season
How is it easier to justify someone being terrible for a whole season than someone being bad in one series?
Jesus Montero fangirl
by WhatwouldJeterdo on Oct 12, 2011 1:36 AM EDT up reply actions
Martin was bad after April
And Tex sucked from the left side of the plate all season, despite his power numbers.
I noticed Tex average was down considerably, but it seemed to me his power #‘s were there as you mentioned, his K’s were consistent. I remember many were giving him a pass the previous season for the broken toe and didn’t he have a injured hand or finger and many said he would come back and right the ship this year as many are saying now with Arod. Tex worries me as I have said numerous times I think word is out about that uppercut swing and pitchers have him figured out to his weakness
With our starting rotation the way it was
We still had as good a chance as any other team does in a short series. There is no justification for any of them hitting the way that they did. If anything, the most unjustifiable person not hitting in that lineup was Martin, and with regards to that, I get more angry at Girardi and the FO. Martin spend the entire middle of the year proving why his bat did not belong on the postseason. Meanwhile, one of our hottest hitters in the month of September, if not THE hottest hitter, who can play Martin’s position was left to rot in the minors/on thebench when we were desperate for a catcher who can actually hit, to which Jesus showed his stuff. Hell, in the only 2 ABs he had in the postseason, he was 2 for 2. If you want to make the argument that our pitchers wouldn’t get use to him catching in a month, fine. I don’t buy it, but whatever. However, the fact that he was just left on the bench in Game 5 because they’re afraid he cannot catch D-Rob or Mo in the later innings is just downright fucking insane.
"WHO WOULD LEAD?! THE CLOWN?!"
by I'mGivingYouARaise on Oct 12, 2011 1:42 AM EDT up reply actions
I was sort of giving Arod a pass because of the injuries, short time coming back. Tex I justified in my head as his uppercut swing caught up to him. And Martin your right was bad most of the season so I wasnt expecting much from him. I was expecting/hoping Swisher would have his time breaking out of the last two year PS funk.
And yes I really wanted to see Montero more as I believe a lot of us did. The couple situations where we could agree a pinch hitter was justified my son and I were screaming emails to each other cross Country like WTF !!
Montero or Jones or Chavez, or heck even Nunez
Here's the thing...
The only justification you can make for both A-Rod and Tex is that there is really no one to replace them at their position during that time, both offensively and really defensively, that really would’ve made that much of a difference. You can make the argument that they could’ve pinch hit for A-Rod and move Chavez or Nunez to third or that they could’ve put Posada at 1st and had someone else like Montero or Jones or whomever DH, but Tex still gives you HR/RBI power despite his off year and A-Rod is A-Rod and has one of the most dangerous bats, when healthy. I don’t like playing unhealthy players, but at least I can understand the reasoning behind it.
With Martin, there’s really no justification. His bat was so terrible all year long that no matter the defensive cost, you have to replace him. We’ve dealt with Jeter’s defense for 15+ years because he was one of the best hitting SS’s in the majors. We dealt with Posada’s defense because he put up HoF batting numbers for a catcher. Montero caught Nova in the minors, so there’s no reason he could not have caught Nova in the majors, especially when Montero’s bat was desperately needed.
"WHO WOULD LEAD?! THE CLOWN?!"
by I'mGivingYouARaise on Oct 12, 2011 2:11 AM EDT up reply actions
sorry, I am not trying to be a PITA, I just dislike the implications in some of the posts here that failure (K’s) is acceptable, in any circumstance.
I remember a few years ago (ok maybe decades ago) the Boss making comments about taking on players that struck out 100 times or more a season as not being reliable or productive and he would be hesitant to sign such players. Guess that kind of stuck with me.
Also the lack of strike outs does not indicate a good player. Yes we have guys like Pujols, Jose Reyes and etc among the league leaders in not striking out. But at the same time there’s guys like Juan Pierre, Placido Polanco,Martin Prado and Vlad. So which tell us not striking out is not a good indicator of offense prowness and good play
Strikeouts mean very over the course of a season. Arod in his 2007 MVP season struck out over 150 times, are going to tell me those strike outs somehow downgrades his value as a player. Further more a ground out/ pop out/ etc is still an out, which is the same as a strike out. Strikes out do matter to a certain extent if the player is not adept on getting on base viva walks or do not hit for power (cough AJAX cough). But in players that hit for power an can get on base at a high clip, it’s really just pointless to complain about them.
‘Further more a ground out/ pop out/ etc is still an out, which is the same as a strike out’
Sorry I disagree with you there. A lot of runners are moved over, runners score, errors are made, and so on on ground outs/ pop outs, so yeah they are still outs but the difference is a ground out or a pop up can be a productive out. I dont see any production in a K
No, a fly ball out may move a runner, but a popup never does
except in the very rare case of a drop where the infield fly rule was not in effect (thank you, Mets). Ground outs may move a runner over, and they may also lead to a double play, which is twice as bad as a strikeout. Strikeouts suck, but if a player tries to walk a lot, he’s going to be wrong some times, or get hosed by a bad call, and strike out. Baseball is hard that way – you can fail 70% of the time to get a hit, and still go to the Hall of Fame.
By that same idea, a guy dropping a strike out can lead to runners on base. A strike out when a guy is running can lead to runners move over. etc etc. By your standard doesn’t that mean a strike out can be productive? Also how is a weak pop out with men in RISP any better than a K. A double play is by far worse than a K in certain cases as well.
I’ve seen a few strike out throw em out in my time.
We are kind of reaching here, my only stance was I fail to see anything productive in K’s
Good thing no one is arguing they are productive
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by Jedi Master A-Rod on Oct 12, 2011 1:31 AM EDT up reply actions
so while we’re on specific cases, there’s plenty of times where a ground out leads to a double play or a line drive is hit to someone to which causes a DP. etc etc. Outs are rarely productive regardless. and While we’re in specific rare classes. How bout a guy on third infield drawn in an with no outs. And a guy hit a weak ground ball causing an out at home and the next guy hits into a DP. Suddenly by that measure, wouldn’t it be better had the first guy K’d? See i can do it too. Hindsight power.
and no one is saying strike outs aren’t bad, since every out is bad. But the the fact that people are putting an overemphasis on strike outs as some kind of end all evaluator is just pure BS.
I can not agree with you here as I see nothing productive about a K whereas a batted ball can lead to a hit, an error, a sacrifice, or moving a runner over, and yes it can lead to a multiple out too
So are you telling me because a guy strikeout a lot he can’t be productive or is somehow less productive than a guy who does it less? Your basically stripping away all context of hitting and focusing one stupid stat that means every little. So Grandy struck out a lot does that make him less productive than Juan Pierre who leads the league in not striking out?
no not at all am I saying that, just that there are times when a player needs to ‘step up’ to the situation and hence my frustration/anger with Swisher…1 for 30 in his PS career with RISP, and that was 0 for 29 until he hit the single with a man on second who didn’t score. Not what I want to see from our 6 hitter
sorry, not in my old school head. To me hitters go to bat looking at the specific circumstance, if its a runner on third his focus needs to be on getting that guy in, if its a runner on first his focus is on getting a hit or at least moving the runner over by hitting to the right side. Again, sorry I guess its my old school ways of looking at things
stats I’m seeing show 120 K’s for Arod in his 07 season, not over 150 times, big difference, maybe you have a better source than I do ?
I actually was thinking of the 139 times in 2006 and 2005. Also i must have mistook the RBI column with the K’s column in 2007. I just remember him striking out a ton with us, yet he still was a monster in those years.
But if you want a true 150+ Ks example of a player who had great years, look at McGuire from 1997 – 1999. Roids aside, he hit for power, got on base at an astounding rate all while striking out a ton. I doubt anyone would argue those K’s make him less of a force at the plate especially when he’s popping 70 homeruns in 1998.
Matt Kemp, Curtis Granderson, Alex Avila, Mike Stanton, Jay Bruce, Alex Gordon, Freddie Freeman, Nelson Cruz, Michael Morse, Rickie Weeks, Carlos Gonzalez….
Suck because of strikeouts
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Jedi Master A-Rod is a poster on Pinstripe Alley. He can be reached by clicking the "Reply" button below his comments.
by Jedi Master A-Rod on Oct 12, 2011 2:31 PM EDT up reply actions
strike outs are outs
just like any other out. Actually they have less chance of being harmful then other outs.
Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows
by Rorschach44 on Oct 12, 2011 12:25 PM EDT up reply actions
I say we get an outfielder
who bats 1.000, has an OBP of 1.000, and slugs 2.000.
When we sign that guy, the guy who never makes an out, then even some of the most irrational fans will be satisfied. Everybody will be happy.
"Unpleasant Internet Dude"
I'm sure someone will bitch about his defense
or, not taking enough pitches to wear out the pitcher, or some even more random complaint.
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