Bomber Links: Perspective on Pettitte
by Lord Duggan on Jan 4, 2011 6:01 AM EST
in New York Yankees News
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PrintMood Music - Hotel California by The Eagles
With word coming down from on high (the Four Letter Network) of Andy Pettitte's incoming decision, the general feeling around the New York Yankees' collective campfire seems to be the following:
-If ESPN hangs one lantern from their statue of Brett Favre (signaling one more season), the Yankees are AL East front runners, Carl Crawford, Adrian Gonzalez, and Bobby Jenks be damned.
-If ESPN hangs two lanterns from their statue of Brett Favre (signaling retirement), Brian Cashman will be burned at the stake after a brief concession speech about his failures this off-season.
Maybe my finger isn't quite on the pulse of the fanbase, but it seems like we, as a group, are assigning too much weight to this decision. I know that the brilliant sports minds at Bleacher Report surely are. Andy Pettitte is a gamer, a True Yankee, and has had a wonderful career, but how much production can we really expect out of him in 2011?
In 2010, Andy Pettitte posted a 3.28 ERA, 3.85 FIP, and 1.27 WHIP in 129 innings.
In 2009, Andy Pettitte posted a 4.16 ERA, 4.15 FIP, and 1.38 WHIP in 194 innings.
In 2008, Andy Pettitte posted a 4.54 ERA, 3.71 FIP, and 1.41 WHIP in 204 innings.
If we're being honest, 150 innings of 4.00 ERA is probably an optimistic projection for the soon to be 39 year old Pettitte. It's hard to imagine that that is going to dramatically change the 2011 season.
Also, since it's the off-season and we like lists, here's the best and worst Yankees of the past 5 years via WasWatching.com. It looks about right to me, but I've got a thing for Majestic Centaurs.
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Pettitte's return is anticipated cuz of how well he pitched last year
and in the playoffs the year before. Also since we don’t really have anything that caliber (even in his worst seasons..) returning to us next year.
Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows
To downplay Andy as a mediocre starter is foolish
We need Andy to play this year.
So what did Andy in the post season???? Oh yeah this:
2010 : 1-1 2.57 ERA 14 innings 10 hits 9/1 – K/BB
2009: 4-0 3.52 ERA 30 inn. 26 hits 25/11 – K/BB
2007: 1 no decision 7 innings no runs scored
Do we really need to go on? Even the Great Mo has bad outings in almost every April and May and then turns on a switch to show that he owns the 9th inning. Andy is as good as a starting pitcher can get. One of the best Yankee Pitchers of ALL TIME.
His overall post season stats equal to a great season as it is.
19 – 10 , 262 innings , 3.83 ERA , 173 K’s
Is you guys argue over something simple as a batting average, then ERA should be argued the same way if not more. On e bad outing can screw your whole year in terms of ERA, but one bad outing in hitting will affect your BA by what .002???? (I am guessing)
In Conclusion, Andy Pettitte is awesome.
Gardner for President.
i really like those postseason stats
Yankees all day.
"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring." ~Rogers Hornsby
"If you're not doing it right, you're doing it wrong. And there's no in between." ~Mark "Lunch" McKenzie
Couldn't agree more ...
especially considering what is trolling around in the FA marketplace. Andy may be fading but he’s still our best option and we all know he can pitch in NYC.
"Baseball is the background music of my life." -George Will
pettitte equals comfort
Yankee fans know what they’re going to get with Andy or would you prefer Sergio Mitre? Reliability is the key. He’s a horse, a true yankee and will provide a comfort level all yankee fans want. Uncertainty doesn’t fly with us and right now that’s what we have. Not getting Lee or any other big name FA for that matter has left a void. Having Pettitte there brings us comfort. Again, we know what we’re going to get.
by bleednyankeeblu on Jan 4, 2011 8:47 AM EST via mobile reply actions
Pettitte vs. other alternatives
The case can be made that in 2011 Andy Pettitte is likely to pitch only slightly better than the league average pitcher. Problem is the Yankees don’t currently have a league average pitcher to replace him with. Giving the young guys a shot brings with it the potential for disaster, and the pitchers currently available are either extremely iffy (Freddy Garcia, Jeff Francis, Chris Young) or require a committment beyond 2011 that goes well beyond their mediocre worth (Carlos Zambrano, Derek Lowe, Joe Blanton). Pettitte returning would just make everyone feel a lot better and a lot more secure.
by Let's Talk About Tex Baby on Jan 4, 2011 9:39 AM EST up reply actions
Thank you for posting this and saving me the trouble of having to point it out.
Any list that equates Carl Pavano with Tyler Clippard can’t be all bad.
by designatedquitter on Jan 4, 2011 2:08 PM EST up reply actions
Holy crap, do I ever @#$%ing hate
that song.
Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.
@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard
As much as I hate "Knockin' on Heaven's Door?' (For which I took a lot of underserved abuse?)
by designatedquitter on Jan 4, 2011 2:09 PM EST up reply actions
Not liking that song is a bannable offense, you should reread the fine print in those Community Guidelines. But hopefully my music selections aren’t a cause for too much pain, and I am always open to suggestions.
“Hotel California” is a classic. You can’t please all the people all the time…
There's always next year
“Hotel California” (along with most everything the Eagles wrote) is vastly overrated and a perfectly valid reason for intentionally rupturing one’s ear drums. At the best, it is inferior to a live version, and even then, it’s still Hotel California.
"Have faith in the Yankees, my son. Think of the great DiMaggio."
wow well said jscape
Maybe mix in alittle White Stripes next time! They frickin rock!
Gardner for President.
Meh
Barenaked Ladies, Billy Joel, Green Day, Bob Dylan, The Weepies, Iron & Wine, Springsteen, Jackson Browne, Tom Paxton, Goo Goo Dolls, Alice in Chains, Oasis, Stone Temple Pilots…
"Have faith in the Yankees, my son. Think of the great DiMaggio."
Ummm
You criticize the Eagles and then come up with that list? Oh…my…God.
Mine you ask? Beatles, Tom Petty, U2, Metallica, Guns and Roses, White Stripes (Dude’s a genius, right Mac?). More recent you ask? I like Train and Kings of Leon.
There's always next year
I love the guy form White Stripes!
He is also in a great group called the Raconteurs.
So my list: Biggie Smalls, Raconteurs, Wu Tang, Beatles, Wilco, Stevie Wonder, Eminem, Cake, and The Black Crowes.
No particular order and there is more.
Gardner for President.
Beatles are a given.
Tom Petty is meh, U2 is good, Metallica had a couple good songs and I’m over it, Guns and Roses the same, White Stripes are ok but not my first choice.
I loved Train’s first 2 albums and then it’s all been down hill. Kings of Leon are good in a shuffle, but I can’t listen to a full album.
"Have faith in the Yankees, my son. Think of the great DiMaggio."
What animal does not contain a consistent body temperature?
and can be found in the notrthern part of South America?
CRAWWL MEAT!!
That was my nickname in high school.
Writer for Pinstripe Alley, MLB Daily Dish
Follow me on twitter @nyybrandonc
lol but for reals i was wondering when you would start picking more modern music for the mood music of the day
im not talking about the sh**ty pop and hip hop on the radio either
cool bands like Bloc Party, MGMT, and Yeasayer, etc.
CRAWWL MEAT!!
I’m one of the few people that agree with Duggan’s music choices for the most part. If I had to ask for more modern music, I’d pick something along the lines of Linkin Park, Greenday, The Killers, etc.
Writer for Pinstripe Alley, MLB Daily Dish
Follow me on twitter @nyybrandonc
Wolfmother is another one.
Writer for Pinstripe Alley, MLB Daily Dish
Follow me on twitter @nyybrandonc
The Killers and Greenday are too mainstream
bands aren’t cool unless nobody knows about them
CRAWWL MEAT!!
Alright, tell me if you haven’t heard of any of these (sorry I am going to name a lot of bands here)
Against Me! Alice Cooper, Audioslave, The Bravery, The Fratelli’s, Franz Ferdinand, Mumford&Sons, Muse, The Offspring, Shinedown, Trapt, Three Days Grace, Wolfmother, Yellowcard, 30 seconds to Mars.
I know some of those are mainstream, just listing a lot.
Writer for Pinstripe Alley, MLB Daily Dish
Follow me on twitter @nyybrandonc
You like a lot of the music I liked in about 8th grade.
People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring.
by WhatwouldJeterdo on Jan 4, 2011 5:12 PM EST up reply actions
I’ll take that as a compliment? That isn’t the majority of the music I like, those are just random bands from the IPOD that might not be mainstream. My favorite bands are classic rock from 60’s and 70’s.
Writer for Pinstripe Alley, MLB Daily Dish
Follow me on twitter @nyybrandonc
It's just funny that that's some of what I was into like 9 years ago.
Makes me feel old….at 21.
People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring.
by WhatwouldJeterdo on Jan 4, 2011 5:39 PM EST up reply actions
Hush, you.
People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring.
by WhatwouldJeterdo on Jan 4, 2011 5:47 PM EST up reply actions
Radiohead!
Dear HIMYM PTB, please put Alyson Hannigan and Alexis Denisof in a scene together. Please and thank you.
And Depeche Mode.
Dear HIMYM PTB, please put Alyson Hannigan and Alexis Denisof in a scene together. Please and thank you.
Forgot to explain why I said sigh through all that. My sister has tried to get me to like MGMT for so long and I just don’t.
Writer for Pinstripe Alley, MLB Daily Dish
Follow me on twitter @nyybrandonc
I’ll put that on my to do list.
Writer for Pinstripe Alley, MLB Daily Dish
Follow me on twitter @nyybrandonc
Hmm. My music knowledge is deep but not broad (meaning I know a lot about a small number of bands/genres, but am fairly ignorant of others), so I’d have to look into what you’ve listed. I’m always happy to check stuff out when somebody gives it a rec though, so consider it done.
thank you sir
i got a bunch of suggestions if you need em
CRAWWL MEAT!!
Good bye Andy...
We’re tired of your game. We’re moving on. You and Brett Favre can go have a staring contest to see who blinks first.
Personally, if I’m management (Cashman), that’s exactly what I’d be telling him. It’s totally inconsiderate and disrespectful of him to leave his team and, more important, his team mates, hanging why he does his little dance. He could have made his decision a month ago.
So could Cashman
He could have done something if he wanted to. And it’s not like he’s contemplating what to have for supper, it’s retirement. It’s a life decision.
There's always next year
Lol. WUT?! Pettitte is a free agent. He can do as he pleases. If he's thinking about retirement,
let him think about retirement. The Yankees could certainly use his services given that he would be an upgrade over Mitre, if the latter happens to be the guy for the last rotation spot. Get a grip.
You're undervaluing starting pitching
150 IP is a hard number to come by because that means seeing the in division teams multiple times- which means exposure and adjustments.
In 2010, the Yankees needed 150 IP of 5 ERA from Javy.
In 2009, it was 150 of 4.75 from Joba.
In 2008, 110 of 5.4 from Darrel Rasner was 3rd best on the team.
In 2007, 150 of 5.15 from Mussina and people wanted him DFA’d.
2005, 140 of 4.5 from Jared Wright, and there were people on this board saying what they’re saying now about Nova- if he can make it through the order a third time without exploding…
But here’s the facts of life: it is damn hard to go through a batting order 3 times in a game, even harder when those are the 10th or 12th ABs of the season between that pitcher and that lineup. 150IP of average or above average ERA is an impressive thing, especially in the AL East.
You can’t afford to underrate it.
"Have faith in the Yankees, my son. Think of the great DiMaggio."
I’m not underrating it. I know that that type of production doesn’t grow on trees. I just think the general idea that a 39 year old pitcher is going to ride in on a majestic steed and save the season is kind of silly.
Getting Andy back is better than not getting Andy back. But it doesn’t transform the team, and the Yankees should not be in “Andy Pettitte or bust” mode.
True ...
Mussina certainly didn’t save the Yankees season when he bagged 20 and probably pushed himself into the Hall conversation. Pettitte isn’t Jesus Christ, but he is our best option unless we are preparing to blow the roof off a deal to get King Felix. I don’t get the sense that anyone here thinks Andy is the savior
"Baseball is the background music of my life." -George Will
Maybe I should have explained further. I don’t think that Cash and Co should flip Andy the bird and tell him we don’t want him, I think they should be making every effort to get him, and that they should sign him to a generous 1 year deal if they can.
If, however, Andy decides that he wants to retire, Yankee Stadium is not going to be buried in lava.
Fair points
I don’t expect this, should Pettitte retire:
On the other hand, 150 IP from Andy Pettitte in the middle of the rotation could be the difference between playoffs and not in 2011.
Without Pettitte, I think the Yankees are a 90-92 win team in 2011. With the White Sox rebuilt to challenge the Twins in the Central, it’s easy to imagine the Wild Card going to the Twins with 93 wins, and two of the Red Sox, Yankees and Rays sitting at home.
"Have faith in the Yankees, my son. Think of the great DiMaggio."
I read this as their win-lose record
Too hopeful?
Yankees all day.
"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring." ~Rogers Hornsby
"If you're not doing it right, you're doing it wrong. And there's no in between." ~Mark "Lunch" McKenzie
I think it’s way too early to be handicapping end of the season records. Look at what happened to the Sox last year.
What if CC needs shoulder surgery and Robinson Cano tears a hamstring running out a ground ball in spring training? What if the Red Sox play the Rangers and Adrian Gonzalez gets mauled by Adrian Beltre at 1st base?
Saying that Andy Pettitte is the difference (I know you said that he could be) is very premature. At this point, all that you can be worried about is the Yankees compiling the most talent that they can. We’ll worry about the races when we’ve got some idea as to where we stand and what our needs are.
When do we start handicapping?
Because I’d say having a rotation of CC, AJ, Hughes, ?, ? is more than enough handicap.
"Have faith in the Yankees, my son. Think of the great DiMaggio."
I think it’s way too early to be handicapping end of the season records
So what do you call this:
If we’re being honest, 150 innings of 4.00 ERA is probably an optimistic projectio
Do you have proof???? I am scared.
We do need Andy and I would like him to start up a month later and baby him until the playoffs.
Gardner for President.
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