Official Endorsement for Chamberlain in 2011 Rotation
If I had a dime for every time I've read about who should be in the starting rotation for 2011 behind Sabathia, Hughes and Burnett... I just might be able to buy season tickets in the terrace level. This isn't a post about the three gentlemen that will already be representing the Yankee rotation in 2011. I'm throwing in my ten cents on why I believe it's time for Joba Chamberlain to seriously be added for spring training. You may or may not agree with me, but that's what makes this website beautiful. Let's move on to my points.
1) He's proven that he can handle the rotation. Sure, he didn't turn out to be an absolutely stunning pitcher. But let's be real... he did a fantastic job in 2008 when he was sent out to start games. Between June 3 and August 4, he pitched 65.1 innings in 12 starts. His ERA was an outstanding 2.76 while hitters averaged a measly .247 against him and a .319 OBP. 3:1 K to BB ratio and 63% of his pitches were thrown for strikes. More importantly (even though I'm not a huge proponent of W-L record), he helped the Yankees win more than lose when he pitched. Sure, he only averaged about 5.1 innings per outing, but he also began the first two months of the season in the bullpen. That's a heck of a mid-season change to the rotation and the Yankees definitely hurried it up. But we couldn't have asked for more of an effort from Joba at that time.
2) Yankees abused his arm in 2009 and his sloppy end of season pitching was a result of it. Joba started the vast majority of the season for the Yankees before being moved to the bullpen in the playoffs to create a fantastic 7-8-9 of Chamberlain, Hughes and Rivera. I would argue that the Yankees misused Chamberlain toward the end of the season... yet he still posted decent enough results that I would take in a heartbeat. They probably shouldn't have let him throw 110 innings before August when he only pitched 100 innings total in 2008. After sparkling brilliance during the first half of 2010, we saw a steady decline after the All Star game for Phil Hughes... yet he seems to be a definite in the rotation for years to come. Let's not forget that Joba played to the tune of a 3.58 ERA before his innings became limited and his arm clearly stopped functioning the same way. Would anyone else here take an ERA of 3.58-4.00 from the fourth starter right now? I sure as hell would. His fastball and slider velocity struggled as he threw 2,715 pitches in 2009. He resorted to throwing his curveball and change-up more and putting the slider in his back pocket in 2009 (which had always been his put-away money pitch).
3) Got anyone else in mind? So far it seems like the best options we've managed to list are the following...
Option A - Sign someone like Kevin Millwood or Freddy Garcia and see if they have anything left in the tank
Option B - Sergio Mitre and Ivan Nova
Option C - Why even play the season because Tampa just signed Damon and Manny and Boston is already celebrating a championship.
While Option C is unfortunately out of the question, this does leave two others. Personally, I'm not a fan of going out for a make-shift pitcher who is struggling to even find a home in 2011. Millwood's ERA has been somewhere in the low 5.00's during three of the past four years. Last year, he pitched against the American League East with the Orioles and that didn't seem to work out favorably for him. He was placed on the DL with a forearm sprain in his pitching arm and that scares me that he's ready to breakdown momentarily. Garcia showed a bit of promise last season by pitching fairly well with the White Sox. However, this is a man that tallied up 129 innings pitched from 2007-2009 before semi-reappearing last year. By no means is he an overpowering pitcher and I would tend to think that his ERA in the AL East would be somewhere between 4.50-5.00 (assuming he doesn't get injured). He's got a lot of mileage that he's burned up over the years and I wouldn't peg him as a reliable option. I'd throw him a minor league contract with some incentives at most.
Now, Ivan Nova would appear to be the most logical option. He has pitched nearly an entire season at Scranton with great results. He also dipped his feet in the murky waters of the MLB last year by tossing 42 innings. Right now, we really don't know too much about Nova other than the fact that merely because he pitched with decency in some spot-starts last year, clearly he is the most viable option. Despite making some batters look foolish, Nova's ERA of 4.91 wasn't exactly as promising as I would have liked to see. Granted, he only started seven games, but he's truly not entirely experienced. Sergio Mitre is really just a terrible option. He's shaky when he throws longer than three innings. He's shown great things and he's shown miserable stuff out there as well. Personally, I don't trust Mitre to go out there and compete with another four or five starter every fifth day. I would expect the Yankees to win less than half the games that he pitches in. I do believe he has a solid position in the bullpen as a long-reliever. Also, no other pitcher (Noesi, Betances, Phelps, Brackman) has had significant enough experience in Scranton to be considered to the rotation to start the season.
4) Joba doesn't fit into the bullpen. Right now, this is how I would fill out the bullpen.
Sergio Mitre
The Yankees, hands down, have the best set-up man and best closer in the game. At this point, it's about piecing together innings six and seven if the starter only goes five. I read earlier that Sanchez is out of options, so I imagine that he'll start out in the bullpen and we'll see whether or not he can prove himself. David Robertson has been terrific for the Yankees and I expect nothing less from him. He can provide one or two innings of relief if necessary, and has thrown up to three in the past. Mitre will be the long reliever. Feliciano has been able to gobble up innings up in Queens and Boone Logan stepped up last year and will again in his contract year. Swapping Sanchez and removing Chamberlain really doesn't affect the bullpen much, perhaps making it a bit weaker. But that's a risk I'd be willing to take every time.
I truly and honestly believe that Chamberlain should be a starting pitcher. It was the intent in 2008 and 2009 before the Yankees changed their minds yet again. He has no future in the bullpen except possibly becoming a set-up man in the future. The fans, for whatever reason, have grown tired of him coming in and "ruining" games when he's only really blown up three-to-five games in 2010. Other than that, he was a lights out pitcher. He's logged plenty of innings in the rotation and I think that would suit him and the organization best at this point. Of course, Cashman and Girardi have come out to state that he will not be in the rotation at this point, but who honestly knows? I hope I haven't steered off-track much in this fanpost. It's getting really late on the east coast and I wanted to finally get a fanpost out for 2011. The Joba debate seems to have been raging on for years now... I still believe he holds value to the Yankees.
By the way.... only two options in the poll. If you want to trade Joba, it won't happen. His stock is low right now and the Yankees would not get much in return.
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I agree with you but...
As a side question, has there been one Yankees related topic more discussed in the last four years then the Joba starter or reliever debate?
We have been having this discussion since back when Torre was our manager.
SNIVELING HU-MAHNS!!
Also, Romulo Sanchez?
You don’t think we will get back the Mexican Gangster?
SNIVELING HU-MAHNS!!
I agree that Chamberlain should be in the rotation.
Sadly that ship seemingly sailed. The fact that Cashman literally squashed any hope (that we know of) makes me incredibly frustrated.
"Number 9 Number 9 Number 9 Number 9 Number 9 Number 9 Number 9 Number 9 Number 9 Number 9 Number 9 Number 9 Number 9Number 9 Number 9 Number 9 Number 9 Number 9 Number 9Number 9 Number 9 Number 9 Number 9 Number 9 Number 9Number 9 Number 9 Number 9 Number 9 Number 9 Number 9 Number 9"
by Gelatin on Jan 25, 2011 4:47 AM EST via mobile reply actions
You're right on everything you said
But I think you’re pretty much preaching to the choir on this site. You could call the Fan with those arguments but Fatcessa would probably tell you “heez got teh mentality for teh penz” and hang up on you.
The handling of Joba since 2007 is the biggest black mark on Cashman’s tenure as GM and that includes Kei Igawa.
by Let's Talk About Tex Baby on Jan 25, 2011 9:50 AM EST reply actions
actually
Francesa said a few days ago that Joba would be of more value to the Yankees out of the rotation than pitching the 6th inning every day.
When he even admits that he should be a starter, you know that there’s no other place he should be.
"I'll do whatever it takes to win games, whether it's sitting on a bench waving a towel, handing a cup of water to a teammate, or hitting the game-winning shot."- Kobe Bryant
Really?
I thought I’d see Francessa marching Greenwich St. in a Jets jersey before he’d ever admit he was wrong about Joba.
by Let's Talk About Tex Baby on Jan 25, 2011 10:10 AM EST up reply actions
lol yea I'm serious
I’m not sure if he means more value to the rotation than the bullpen, or just his current role in the bullpen. But he’s definitely right about Joba being of more value to the Yanks as a 5th starter than he is as a guy pitching middle innings (and maybe not even that)
"I'll do whatever it takes to win games, whether it's sitting on a bench waving a towel, handing a cup of water to a teammate, or hitting the game-winning shot."- Kobe Bryant
Honestly
I haven’t been around much on PSA or listened in on Joba talks in the past couple months. I’ve been really busy and not had much time at all for fanposts. I come around and comment maybe <10 times a day. I wasn’t aware that everyone had pegged Joba as a starter. At this point… it seems the only logical agreement we can have.
March 31st can't come soon enough.
by Chris McKeown on Jan 25, 2011 10:20 AM EST up reply actions
We’ve all been proponents of Joba starting. Anyone who disagreed we had Free make fun of until they went away.
Russell Martin is just like the Jewish Pharisees, trying to keep Jesus down.
Typical
March 31st can't come soon enough.
by Chris McKeown on Jan 26, 2011 2:29 PM EST up reply actions
I agree 100%
He should be a starter, he’s of more value to the Yankees as a starter. Unfortunately, I think a couple of bad starts while he had the flu in spring training last year took any hope of him being a starter ever again in Cashman’s eyes. Completely ridiculous.
Cashman’s handling of Joba Chamberlain has to be among the top five worst things he’s ever done as a general manager. It’s amazing how his brilliant two months out of the pen have seemingly ruined his career as a starting pitcher.
"I'll do whatever it takes to win games, whether it's sitting on a bench waving a towel, handing a cup of water to a teammate, or hitting the game-winning shot."- Kobe Bryant
Just to spark discussion, how would you go about rebuilding his innings? Would the bullpen be as impressive? Don’t mos pitchers have most value in rotation? Should Joba start in AAA to build innings rather than relieve in MLB? Should he still be considered a prospect?
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I would rebuild his innings in ST… there’s plenty of time to do it, and in low pressure situations. Sending him down to AAA at this point I don’t think will help as much, just because he’s been up for a few years now- he’d probably go down there and not be challenged as much. As long as his mechanics are okay and he’s not laying a huge egg- leave him at the ML level and just stretch him in the spring.
To answer another of your questions- he’s not a prospect anymore in my book. That doesn’t mean he can’t be a valuable asset to the Yanks pitching from the middle of the rotation. I don’t understand how he goes from top starting prospect to buried in middle relief in such a short time, relatively speaking. Especially at his age. And if the Yanks’ brass has lost that much faith in him- why the hell is he still on this team?
Start Joba please. At least give him a shot. If it doesn’t work, throw him back in the pull pen. #can’tbeworsethanMitre
by NumberSeven on Jan 25, 2011 12:14 PM EST up reply actions
honestly
I think that they should team up Chamberlin and Nova to fill one of the starter spots. we saw that when his (Chamberlin’s) IP shot up from ‘07 to ’08, he had shoulder problems. He only pitched 71.2 innings last year. To get up to his (and around his 2009 started IP), he would have to increase his IP by 85.2, similar to his jump from ’07 to ’08 (24.0 to 100.1). Maybe we can start one in the firt half and revlieve second half, or have something where Chamberlin starts every 2 games and Nova 1, so as to push up Chamberlin’s numbers to approx 120 IP to make him a full out starter in 2012.
in addition, Nova is nowhere near ready to be a 5th starter. he only pitched 42.0 innings in the majors last year, and I doubt many on here feel comfortable having him start every 5th game this year. By alternating them, we can get up both their numbers, so we can see if one or both has a future as a starter in the majors
I voted pen
While I believe he should compete in spring training I think the Yanks are trying to build his value back up as quickly as possible for a trade and the pen is where it can happen in a blink. His arm stays fresher and his velocity in turn is better. Somewhere along the way they lost confidence in Joba and are looking for a fix. I could also argue the other way as many of us have but this is what I believe (dumb or correct.)
I lift things up then put them down. ( if you've seen it you will laugh, if you haven't then you will not but damn it's funny.)
by cashman bashman on Jan 25, 2011 12:09 PM EST reply actions
People are confusing two different questions here- 1) Which is Joba more suited to, and 2) Where do the Yankees need him more?
You can argue question #1 all you like, but the answer to question #2 is obvious once you even ask it. Joba might rate 7 out of 10 as a relievr and 5 out of 10 as a starter, but the Yankee pen is fairly full, and the rotation is half empty.
Does Joba get a uniform patch or an engraved plaque with the “Yankees 2” official endorsement logo on it?
by designatedquitter on Jan 25, 2011 2:11 PM EST reply actions
PS- questions with more debate than Joba start or relief (off the top of my head):
1) Hughes or Chamberlain at #5
2) Re- sign Damon
3) Damon or Gardner in left
4) Gardner or Granderson in LF/CF
5) Who bats 5th (2010)
6) Whither Montero
7) Granderson for Ajax, worth it?
8) Girardi, useless tool, or idiot savant?
by designatedquitter on Jan 25, 2011 2:14 PM EST reply actions
i think that the Joba debate has been talked about more then all of those topics
every season since Torre left it has been talked about and debated among Yankees fans and media personnel alike
SNIVELING HU-MAHNS!!
by Brian5517209 on Jan 25, 2011 2:33 PM EST up reply actions
Take a look at Joba's WAR since 2008
08 -100 IP – 3.3 WAR
09 -157 IP – 1.8 WAR
10 -71 IP – 1.4 WAR
I think Joba can still be a good ML starter. I think the reason I get hope is his one game vs. the Rays in August in 2009. If he’s going to be a 2+ WAR starter I’d take him in a heart beat. Around his 09 season and I’ll take that too. I always think a good starter is better than a great reliever.
With the 9th pick in the NFL Draft the Cowboys select...?
Especially when you look at how effective Vazquez was last year with a WAR close to 0 or in the negatives
Joba’s WAR would be a no-brainer to take.
March 31st can't come soon enough.
by Chris McKeown on Jan 25, 2011 4:12 PM EST up reply actions
Now Cashman says Joba has never recovered from his 2008 injury. That changes everything.
by designatedquitter on Jan 26, 2011 2:12 PM EST reply actions
I always try to keep an open mind about what might be true.
It’s very common for players to hide injuries, or take an unusually long time to recover from them. It’s also common for players to just ‘flame out’ after promising early success. I honestly didn’t know or pretend to know. It might seem obvious in retrospect.
by designatedquitter on Jan 27, 2011 3:13 PM EST up reply actions
no I don't
i think he is full of crap. they want a reason to quash the “joba for starter” debate, and this easily ends it
Who is this in response to?
March 31st can't come soon enough.
by Chris McKeown on Jan 27, 2011 3:56 PM EST up reply actions
what they hell
its not putting my reply to the person who I am commenting on. what’s up with that?
He was replying to you when he said
“no I don’t I think he is full of crap. they want a reason to quash the ‘joba for starter’ debate, and this easily ends it” … but he failed to push “reply to” so it just showed up as a new comment. I asked him who he was replying to and he said you.
March 31st can't come soon enough.
by Chris McKeown on Jan 30, 2011 11:39 AM EST up reply actions
I think he was budding in on your response to dq
March 31st can't come soon enough.
by Chris McKeown on Jan 30, 2011 7:44 PM EST up reply actions
Joba did well as a starter post Texas injury
Cashman is just trying to end the Joba to the rotation debate.
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by Dewey Finn on Jan 28, 2011 9:18 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
i'm in
Endorsed for the rotation…..he blows his shoulder,,,he blows his shoulder,,,injuries are a part of the game.
He will NEVER find the stuff he had that was sooooooooo electric while being in the pen. He needs the ball every 5 days in an all out go for broke 100-125 pitches,,,win,lose or draw,,,,in health or until he blows up,,,he just needs to be able to do it.
If AFTER doing this it is confirmed he isn’t cut out to be a starter,,,the pen will be awaiting.
He needs the chance to go for broke now. Be fair to him Cash.
by archery john blaze on Jan 29, 2011 10:49 PM EST reply actions
If Joba were physically able to start in Cashman's opinion, what would be his motive for sticking to his bullpen statements?
Even people who think he’s not the best GM don’t think he’s out to deliberately undermine the team to protect his self- image. Cashman has said lots of things that changed with the situation in the past.
by designatedquitter on Jan 30, 2011 2:43 PM EST reply actions

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