New York Yankees News: Who's in Charge Here?

by Lord Duggan on Jan 16, 2011 7:00 AM EST in New York Yankees News

After the signing of Rafael Soriano, word has leaked out (source one and source two) that New York Yankees general manager Brian Cashman was overruled by Hank and Hal Steinbrenner. While I don't agree with the signing of Soriano, I see a much larger issue:

Brian Cashman should never, ever, be overruled on a baseball decision by the Steinbrenner boys.

I know that they write the checks and want to be known as something more than "George's kids," but if the inmates start running the asylum, I think we're in for a lot more knee-jerk, short-sighted moves. We have an excellent general manager, and he needs to be the one making the baseball decisions.

-Ben Shpigel of the NY Times continues the speculation about Joba Chamberlain's future. It's amazing how 24 brilliant innings have seemingly ruined his career as a Yankee.

-Stephen Rhoads over at RAB makes the case for locking up Phil Hughes with an extension. Extending good young players has been a popular play across the league, and I'd be in favor of pushing back Hughes' date with free agency for as long as possible. As Hughes earned a meager $447K in 2010, I think both parties would be amicable to doing some surgery on his contract situation.

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Yeah, that's what's been bothering me about the signing too

If he’s going to be overruled this blatantly, it doesn’t give him any credibility going forward. I thought that (regardless of whether you agreed with them or not) his moves from the past two offseasons clearly put forward the idea that he was following a plan. That’s good for getting leverage in negotiations.

I hope it’s a one time, or occassional thing. Most of all, I hope that they leave it to free agents and don’t touch the farm. The Steinbrenners might think they know the FA market as well or better than Cashman, but they’d really get screwed in the trade market.

The idiot formerly known as pkyankeefan! Now in Technicolour!

by Hasan Paliwala on Jan 16, 2011 7:23 AM EST reply actions

It's a horrible precedent

and it will happen again.

There's always next year

by david d on Jan 16, 2011 10:03 AM EST up reply actions

That's how I see it too

I’m just trying to be hopeful.

The idiot formerly known as pkyankeefan! Now in Technicolour!

by Hasan Paliwala on Jan 16, 2011 11:13 AM EST up reply actions

It is a scary proposition

I don’t think Cashman is a perfect GM by any means, but him being overruled is what got us Gary Sheffield instead of Vlad Guerrero. It’s what got us Jaret Wright and Kenny Lofton. It’s what told us we NEEDED to have Randy Johnson and Kevin Brown.

George Steinbrenner cared about winning more than any other owner, but he didn’t really have a good sense when it came to how to go about it. It’s probably the same situation with the Steinbrenner kids. Unfortunately, the more they get involved in player personnel decisions, the more we’ll see these desperate overpays.

by Let's Talk About Tex Baby on Jan 16, 2011 12:03 PM EST up reply actions

The asking price for Soriano dropped big time

I understand that paying a set-up man this much money is a lot. However for the yankees at the end of the day this is not one of those super contracts that will burn us in the long run.

Mariano is the best ever and each year is getting older where at anytime he can break down. The Soariano signing is a nice insurance policy to me does not have a great downside.

We all agree that adding one more SP that can eat innings would be smar move and I think this will happen. I think Tampa is weaker and that makes the yankees road to the WIld card easier. We will be fine until we add experience when teams salary dump in August.

by ABMANTLE on Jan 16, 2011 8:32 AM EST reply actions

We need a backend rotation starter before August

We should not be comfortable with the prospect of having Nova & useless Mitre as our backend rotation pitchers until August. I am in favor of giving Joba another shot at SP in ST as Nova & Joba at the backend would be better than Nova & Mitre. A better scenario would be packaging Joba, Mitre & lesser prospect(s) for a decent starting vet.

If we are going to give the youngsters a shot at the last two backend SP positions, then we must be able to move on a vet SP in mid June not August if the experiment fails. The RSox are projected to be a 100+ win team and I expect the wild card race to be very competitive this season

by YANKEES FOREVER on Jan 16, 2011 10:41 AM EST up reply actions

The Red Sox are projected to be a 100+ win team?

Sure they are, but if you remember, people were comparing the Rays to the ‘98 Yankees in May too. How they were looking that good (I’m looking at you, SI). And again, if you’re going by projections, the Yankees have a great chance for the wild card, seeing how the Rays lost so many players.

I guess the problem with acquiring a player in June is that many teams are still in the hunt, and are looking for a higher price for their pitching options.

The idiot formerly known as pkyankeefan! Now in Technicolour!

by Hasan Paliwala on Jan 16, 2011 11:18 AM EST up reply actions

The Red Sox in no way have locked up the division

They’ve got some new great players, but they lost a couple as well and it seems to me that they’re relying more on bounceback seasons from their rotation and that their core comes back healthy.

They may very well win 100 games, but lets not award them the division in January. They still have to play the games. Did anyone expect the Giants to knock off the Phillies last year? Or the Rangers to beat the Yanks (especially after the Yankees Game 1 comeback)? No, but it happened. They play the games, and to me the Yankees have a great team with a good chance of winning the division.

"I'll do whatever it takes to win games, whether it's sitting on a bench waving a towel, handing a cup of water to a teammate, or hitting the game-winning shot."- Kobe Bryant

Please come back Andy!

by nyyrocks29 on Jan 16, 2011 11:21 AM EST up reply actions

The best team wins the regular season division... the Hottest & Healthiest team usually wins in the post season.

The regular season has 162 games and the best team will usually have the best record. In the postseason the teams play a maximum of seven games and the best of seven winner is typically the hottest, healthiest and break getting team and not necessarily the best overall team.

I agree the Yankees will be a strong team in the AL East but If we have to go with youngsters as #4 & #5 SPs, I am concerned we will not get to the late innings with the lead enough to support a winning streak and match up well with the RSox starting rotation. I do agree in baseball they have to play the games and anything can happen but I like to have the odds in my favor.

by YANKEES FOREVER on Jan 16, 2011 12:37 PM EST up reply actions

Its funny that this move is getting killed for the money end of it

Yet it seemed that most here would have been fine picking up Wood’s option, which wasnt eactly chump change for a guy that had a decent half season. Yes, i know it wasnt for three years but the opt out thing will probably come into play. I get that Cash was undermined for a second time(ARod) that we know of, but its not like the owners are pushing Nick Johnson or Javy Vasquez on us.

Should you choose to test my resolve in this matter, you will be facing a finality beyond your comprehension, and you will not be counting days, or months, or years, but milleniums in a place with no doors.

by YankeesJets on Jan 16, 2011 10:47 AM EST reply actions

I don't know if there was such a consensus on Wood

Many people felt the money was excessive for a reliever then too. It’s obviously not a payroll hampering deal, so yeah, the bigger issue is that Cashman got overruled. I just don’t like that idea – even though I’m glad it’s Soriano and not, say, Werth or Crawford they decided to throw the money at.

The idiot formerly known as pkyankeefan! Now in Technicolour!

by Hasan Paliwala on Jan 16, 2011 11:15 AM EST up reply actions

Maybe they needed to overrule Cashman

Who hasnt done much the past two years. This is a what have you done fo me lately league and Kerry Wood stands out as the only move that really worked out. You can give him Thames too if youd like but other than that things havent been great. Bring up the Grandy deal but it way to early to judge if that move is a success.

The Steinbrenners, so far arent making the same mistakes the Boss made in the 80’s. They arent trading away youth and they arent trading for aging vets. They signed ARod off of a historic season and he repaid them by leading the Yanks to the title. And now they grabbed the ALs best reliever in 2010, the results of course are yet to come.

by YankeesJets on Jan 16, 2011 11:54 AM EST up reply actions

And I'm willing to bet

That A-Rod will help lead the Yanks to a few more titles over the course of his contract as well.

"I'll do whatever it takes to win games, whether it's sitting on a bench waving a towel, handing a cup of water to a teammate, or hitting the game-winning shot."- Kobe Bryant

Please come back Andy!

by nyyrocks29 on Jan 16, 2011 12:19 PM EST up reply actions

I'm not as optimistic as you on A-Rod

I think he’ll have a better season than last year, but I also think that if anyone will be doing the leading, it’ll be Cano.

The idiot formerly known as pkyankeefan! Now in Technicolour!

by Hasan Paliwala on Jan 16, 2011 1:50 PM EST up reply actions

possibly

Cano is one of the most consistent players in the league. He rarely goes through slumps. And then A-Rod is in complete contrast as one of the streakiest players in the league. There are times when he seems like Babe Ruth, and others where he hits like Enrique Wilson.

But when he’s hot, there’s nobody better (like September of last year). I said he’ll “help lead” the Yankees to the title. One player can’t do it all (although A-Rod sure tried to in 2009). Guys like Cano would have a big role as well.

"I'll do whatever it takes to win games, whether it's sitting on a bench waving a towel, handing a cup of water to a teammate, or hitting the game-winning shot."- Kobe Bryant

Please come back Andy!

by nyyrocks29 on Jan 16, 2011 2:24 PM EST up reply actions

I don't think anyone thinks Soriano makes the Yankees worse...

It’s just the extent to which he makes them better doesn’t justify the contract they gave him. The opt out clauses really give you the impression that Scott Boras bent the Yankees over and had his way with them once again. If Soriano blows out his arm this season the Yankees are stuck paying him for 3 years. But if he has a great year he can opt out and look for more money. It just doesn’t make sense.

Look, if the Yankees have an endless budget and paying a setup man 12 mil a year doesn’t affect their ability to pay anyone else, I guess there’s no reason to complain. It’s just that we’ve seen bad contracts set us back in the past and a lot of fans, myself included, feel that the reward doesn’t equal the risk in this case.

by Let's Talk About Tex Baby on Jan 16, 2011 12:11 PM EST up reply actions

You are quite wrong about the opt out clauses

It has been reported it was the Yankees idea to add the opt out clauses to make Soriano comfortable. I would think the Yanks and Soriano are both hoping he has a big season and opts out. Thus a win-win.

I cant remember bad contracts hurting us in the past. The Yankees are probably the only team that this has no effect on. Sure a healthy Carl Pavano and an effective Kei Igawa couldve helped in years past but they were far from what kept us from winning it all.

by YankeesJets on Jan 16, 2011 12:38 PM EST up reply actions

The way bad contracts hurt...

…was that they forced the Yankees to keep certain players in the lineup/rotation instead of being free to pursue other options. Roster flexibility is the word Cashman likes to use. For example, the Yankees were forced to allocate a spot in the 2005 rotation to Kevin Brown because they owed him $15MM for that season. I guess this isn’t as big an issue with Soriano since the bullpen is more of a group thing, but still it’s unsettling that the only way he’ll fulfill his contract is if he’s ineffective or hurt.

I refuse to believe that the opt out clauses were something the Yankees wanted. They give the player all the power and the team none. If Soriano has a 1.80 ERA and a 0.96 WHIP in 2011, the Yankees would have a valuable trade chip next off-season if not for the opt-out clause. Opt-out clauses in general just don’t make a lot of sense for teams.

by Let's Talk About Tex Baby on Jan 16, 2011 9:02 PM EST up reply actions

Wood

would have been signed for one year, not 3 for 35 mil.

There's always next year

by david d on Jan 17, 2011 2:12 AM EST up reply actions

I simply don't see downside to the Soriano move

It improves and deepens the Yankees bullpen, gives them insurance for Mariano, and possibly gives the Yankees a future closer if Mo retires after this contract. If this was a move that would prevent the Yankees from doing anything else, then I’d think differently. But the Yankees have enough money to spend for a back end starter or a fourth outfielder should they want to get one, as well as should Andy Pettitte choose to return.

I don’t get the argument that “the bullpen was already a strength, so why would you spend money on it”. You can always improve. Adding another dominant arm improves the Yankees bullpen, and thus improves the Yankees. All at the expense of a draft pick that in all likelihood will end up being a bust, and if he opts out (assuming the Yanks offer arbitration) and he signs with another team they’ll get two draft picks the next year.

"I'll do whatever it takes to win games, whether it's sitting on a bench waving a towel, handing a cup of water to a teammate, or hitting the game-winning shot."- Kobe Bryant

Please come back Andy!

by nyyrocks29 on Jan 16, 2011 11:27 AM EST reply actions

Who were the Yanks bidding

against? I never heard of another team being in the mix for Soriano. Which teams had that much money to sign him? I can see that much money for a starter but not for a set up guy. I think the Yanks have enough young arms that could have filled that role. I’d like to see them give Bonderman a shot.

by jessie1 on Jan 16, 2011 12:35 PM EST reply actions

How can anybody be against spending the money on Soriano..

..yet want to bring in trash like Bonderman? He is awful and he had the benefit of pitching in a pitchers park.

by YankeesJets on Jan 16, 2011 12:40 PM EST up reply actions

The question I asked was "Who were they bidding against?"

Bonderman was an aside. If no one else was bidding for Soriano, why spend all that money? Sure they have the money, but spend it wisely. It’s not like the bullpen was a weakness for the Yanks. They have a lot of good young arms. I hope Soriano works out, but it seems like they threw a bunch of money at him because they lost out on Lee.

by jessie1 on Jan 16, 2011 1:38 PM EST up reply actions

While Im sure Yanks were the high bidders, I cant believe no other team was in on him

I think the Yanks and Boras probably came to the conclusion that they needed each other. The opt outs can serve both. My conclusion to this deal is I would rather overpay for this guy than pay market value for Fuentes, who was probably the backup plan.

by YankeesJets on Jan 16, 2011 1:45 PM EST up reply actions

‘excellent general manager?’ cc, hughes, aj, nova, ?? is the rotation this man produces when he claims the ultimate goal of the offseason is to get starting pitching

I listen to Enter Sandman before taking exams. I wear the exact same jersey every Giants game. The Rangers goal song goes off in my head when I achieve small successes in life.

HEN-RIK

by BombersGmenBlueshirts25 on Jan 16, 2011 12:46 PM EST reply actions

he tried very hard for Lee

who didn’t want to play here. There was nobody else available that was worth it. Thats his fault?

"I'll do whatever it takes to win games, whether it's sitting on a bench waving a towel, handing a cup of water to a teammate, or hitting the game-winning shot."- Kobe Bryant

Please come back Andy!

by nyyrocks29 on Jan 16, 2011 12:54 PM EST up reply actions

A Steinbrenner overruling the decisions of the GM...

Shocking

"WHO WOULD LEAD?! THE CLOWN?!"

by I'mGivingYouARaise on Jan 16, 2011 2:22 PM EST reply actions

ain’t it?

There's always next year

by david d on Jan 17, 2011 2:14 AM EST up reply actions

is it just me?

Or does that pic make baby-stein look like truman capote?

Anyways, I don’t really see this move as terrible. Soriano pitches well; leaves; NYY net a draft pick, which’d in all likelihood be higher than that of the Yanks’. He was the best player left on the FA market, And IMO you can never have to much ‘pen help. I’m just crossing my fingers that maybe after a terrile first 50 games Seattle’s death-grip can be loosened on King F, this signing, in all probablity allows Joba to be thrown in. There are probably alot more people on here more familira with the farm than I, But I see Joba and Romine as part of a package.

"When its third and ten: You take the milk drinkers, I'll take the whiskey drinkers everytime."-Max McGee

by YankYourSoxOff on Jan 17, 2011 3:01 AM EST reply actions

Haha, you must be joking

Substitute Hughes for Joba, and Montero for Romine, and Jack Z would STILL probably laugh at you. For someone like Felix, he’d want the whole farm. Or Cano. Or something outrageous like that, because Felix really is that good.

The idiot formerly known as pkyankeefan! Now in Technicolour!

by Hasan Paliwala on Jan 17, 2011 3:57 AM EST up reply actions

Give Hughes

the contract now. We have so much trouble finding back end guys for our rotation. Honestly we should have done this before we got the news about Andy.

by ryanwk628 on Jan 17, 2011 12:03 PM EST reply actions

Is it possible

That the public statements were posturing in order to lower the salary demands or length of contract sought by Soriano and his agent? This would be a logical explanation. Soriano was said to be seeking 4 years and $50 mil earlier this winter.

by Iggy Poptart on Jan 17, 2011 10:56 PM EST reply actions

Hughes Extension: Wait until the end of the season.

If he wins 18 again, lock him up. If he regresses, well, you still have 3 arbitration years for him to find himself.

How good a GM is Cash? It’s hard to know since there is so much meddling from above. On one hand, if you believe the Torre/ Verducci book, he’s been behind the curve on sabremetric and value- type analysis of talent. On the other hand, a lot of the bad signings the Yankees have made came from the Tampa Mafia, and now apparently the Junior Boss.

On the other, other hand, how can a team like the Yankees go into a season with 2 1/2 starting pitchers? The Pirates’ rotation looks more settled than ours. I would like to believe that a substantial trade of some sort is brewing, for my own sanity.

by designatedquitter on Jan 18, 2011 10:59 AM EST reply actions