Three Misconceptions of the Rafael Soriano Deal
by Brandon C. on Jan 15, 2011 2:41 PM EST
in New York Yankees Analysis
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PrintYankees fans are split on the signing of Rafael Soriano to a three year deal, and that is understandable. What surprises me is how many people analyze the deal in ways that do not make any sense.
First Misconception: The Yankees paid a set up man $35 million over three years
The Yankees did not pay a set up man $35 million over three years. They paid an eighth inning closer $35 million over three years. The term isn't often used, but that is what an effective set up man is. If the Yankees lead a game by a run in the 8th inning and blow the lead, it is just as bad as if they lead a game in the 9th and blow the lead.
The 9th inning is the last inning of a game that does not go into extra innings, that is a fact, but the role of closer is overrated. Once a starter leaves the game with the lead, no matter what inning it is, the bullpen's job is to hold the lead. Sure they won't get a save, but the pitchers that create the bridge to the closer do save the game.
For example, CC Sabathia pitches seven innings and the Yankees lead by a run. In comes a random scrub. Yankees lose the lead and eventually lose the game. That isn't as bad as losing the lead in the ninth? Soriano has value. Put him in that same situation, he keeps the lead, in comes Mo, game over. That simple. The Yankees are paying an eighth inning closer $35 million over three years.
Second Misconception: The Red Sox still have a better bullpen than the Yankees
If you believe this, please watch this video. Red Sox fans have hyped up their bullpen acquisitions, when in reality the Yankees have quietly made improvements as well. Let's take a look.
Boston -
Bobby Jenks: ERA, WHIP, BAA have all risen each of the past two years. Lost closers role midseason. More hits allowed than innings pitched last season.
Dan Wheeler: Surprised me with how consistently good he is. Not going to complain about this one, great pickup for the Sawx.
New York -
Rafael Soriano: WHIP has lowered each of the past two years, ERA under 2.00 in 2010, 62 innings pitched with only 36 hits allowed.
Pedro Feliciano: While nothing jumps out at you statistically, Feliciano is like Wheeler in the fact that he is extremely consistent. Feliciano has pitched in 80+ games each of the past three seasons, and will be used against lefties, whom he holds under a .220 batting average consistently.
The Yankees acquisitions equal a 2.4 WAR compared to the Red Sox' 1.6 WAR.
Throw this in with the Yankees' 3.47 bullpen ERA in 2010 compared to the Red Sox' 4.24 bullpen ERA, and the fact is that the Yankees have a better bullpen.
Third Misconception: The 31st draft pick is that much better than the Yankees' next pick
We already went over that Greg Maddux and Jarrod Washburn are the only two big names that were drafted 31st, but we didn't go over who has been drafted after the 31st pick.. The Yankees have a sandwich pick thanks to Javier Vazquez signing with the Marlins.
Players who have been chosen after the 31st pick include Adam Dunn, the Red Sox' own Carl Crawford, Kevin Youklilis, and Dustin Pedroia, among others.
The draft is a mystery and the Yankees could just as easily find a star after the 31st pick as they can at 31.
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Barnd you're brilliant
This is exactly what I was thinking. I’m gonna rec this.
The thought that the Yankees “overpaid” is ridiculous. I believe that you pay a pitcher for his value to the team. It doesn’t matter what inning he pitches in. The ninth inning is the end of the game, but it doesn’t make it more important than the eighth inning. Soriano will pitch just as many if not more innings than Mariano this season. And I’m willing to bet he’s gonna be pretty damn effective as well.
"I'll do whatever it takes to win games, whether it's sitting on a bench waving a towel, handing a cup of water to a teammate, or hitting the game-winning shot."- Kobe Bryant
Please come back Andy!
Thanks and to be honest I think the role of closer is very overrated. Each inning inning you hold the lead is as important as the others. If you hold the lead in the 8th, or hold the lead in the 9th, you still are holding the lead to help win the game.
Writer for Pinstripe Alley, MLB Daily Dish
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That's not entirely true.
If you blow a lead in the 7th, you have a chance to gain it back in the 8th and 9th. You blow a lead in the 9th, you hit the showers.
Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.
@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard
Perhaps I worded that wrong. If you hold the lead in the 7th and 8th you are still helping “close” the game. If you blow the lead in the 7th or 8th the team has time to come back, but their is no closer without the 7th and 8th inning pitchers doing their job (assuming they pitch with the lead)
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By the way, completely off topic question, why do Red Sox fans want Joba to start so badly?
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Because they think he'll suck.
People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring.
by WhatwouldJeterdo on Jan 15, 2011 3:19 PM EST up reply actions
So Bobby Jenks won’t have any competition in the AL East bullpen pie eating contest
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by Jedi Master A-Rod on Jan 15, 2011 3:23 PM EST up reply actions
8th inning closer? eh
I think the “8th inning closer” idea is kind of a semantic argument. You can’t just make up a role and assign value to that role. The Yankees signed a setup man. Based on his history as a closer the last 2 years, you could make a good case that he should be the best setup man in the game. Will he be good enough in that role to justify being paid twice as much as anyone else? Is it even possible to justify an $11.75MM salary in that role? It’s hard to say since no one has ever given out a contract in this territory for a setup man before.
by Let's Talk About Tex Baby on Jan 15, 2011 10:25 PM EST up reply actions
You can’t just make up a role and assign value to that role. The Yankees signed a setup man.
Isn’t “set-up man” and how much the average “set up man” makes saying the same thing?
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That's because there's precedent there, Barnd
If we go by your definition, every guy who’s the “next best reliever” on his team is going to pitch the 8th or thereabouts, and becomes the “8th inning closer”. And Soriano will STILL be paid twice as much as any of them. So I guess we can argue semantics all we like, but it’s simpler to accept that he will set up for Mariano, and he’s being paid a lot more than what other options might be paid for doing the same thing. Oh, and that we all hope he kicks ass.
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by Hasan Paliwala on Jan 16, 2011 2:34 AM EST up reply actions
That's why it was a bad deal.
You pay a pitcher his value to the team. But the Yankees overpaid Soriano by almost 2x (after factoring in luxury tax and the draft pick) what he is probably going to be worth, and also managed to give him all the leverage with player options.
I look at it like this:
At some point Mariano is going to burn the Yankees with his contract. There will be an injury, there will be a drop in performance, something. Why should the Yankees, a team with the richest resources in MLB, go into a season with the risk of having a season go south because of lack of protection? I would not hold the same opinion of this contract (although I probably should) if Mo was 32 or 33.
What the Yanks have done is given themselves not only an “8th inning” closer but a nice insurance policy in the event that Mo finally runs out of gas.
Also
So (my nick for him), judging by what Mo said, is possibly going to be groomed to be the sob future closer for the Yankees after Mo shudder retires.
Unless Mo pitches forever.
"WHO WOULD LEAD?! THE CLOWN?!"
by I'mGivingYouARaise on Jan 15, 2011 3:10 PM EST reply actions
Well at that point he would be 35 I believe, so I don’t think that is the best idea, but maybe he could be a stop gap closer for a year or two.
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This is assuming Mo is pitching for 4 more years.
"WHO WOULD LEAD?! THE CLOWN?!"
by I'mGivingYouARaise on Jan 15, 2011 3:18 PM EST up reply actions
I am wrong. Thought he was 33.
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Another thing too
Like others have said, it also means we have a backup 9th inning closer if Mo needs a day off for some reason.
"WHO WOULD LEAD?! THE CLOWN?!"
by I'mGivingYouARaise on Jan 15, 2011 3:24 PM EST up reply actions
I thought that's why we signed Sergio Mitre
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Nonsense
Sergio is practically our pitching coach for the 2011 season.
"WHO WOULD LEAD?! THE CLOWN?!"
by I'mGivingYouARaise on Jan 15, 2011 3:35 PM EST up reply actions
What do we do with Joba Now?
I am in favor of giving him a chance to compete for SP position in ST.
If we do not sign a vet for #4 SP, which I expect we will, then we will need 2 SP’s. I would rather see Joba & Nova in the starting rotation than Nova & Mitre.
Mitre needs to be only used as a long man & mop up duty
by YANKEES FOREVER on Jan 15, 2011 3:12 PM EST reply actions
I say we just take him out back and shoot him.
"WHO WOULD LEAD?! THE CLOWN?!"
by I'mGivingYouARaise on Jan 15, 2011 3:22 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
The 9th inning is indeed different from the rest...
The last 3 outs are the hardest 3 outs to get in baseball.
errr...
tell a lie enough times over and over again, and people will begin to believe it.
I don’t even know where to begin with this, but I’ll have a go:
1) Arbitrarily labeling someone an “eighth inning closer” because you think they’re good doesn’t change the fact that we gave premium closer money to someone who is not going to be pitching the 9th inning very often.
Of course Soriano has value, but your scenario with CC is so backwards. Between Mariano, Joba, D-Rob, Feliciano, and the rest of the non-Soriano pen, the Yankees would win the vast majority of games that they are up by 1 run in the 8th inning. How about when Sergio Mitre or whatever scrap heap starter we roll out there gives up 6 runs in 4 innings? It doesn’t matter how good the pen is, we’re probably going to lose. You don’t improve by making the pen even better, you improve by getting Sergio Mitre the hell away from the rotation.
The simple fact of the matter is that the Yankees did not address their needs. Soriano makes the Yankees better, but not nearly, nearly, as much as could have been done by using his salary to acquire a back-end starter.
2) I don’t give a crap about the Red Sox bullpen and comparing two bullpens on paper in January is absurd. Saying our bullen > your bullpen during the offseason means less than nothing.
3) The lost draft pick is just another kick in the balls to an already wasteful signing. Of course there are no guarantees in the draft, and you can find gems in later rounds, but pretending that a first round pick is not considerably better than a later pick is just not true. The 11th round Pujols type finds are the exception, not the rule.
The Soriano signing isn’t the end of the world, and I get it if you’re just trying to be supportive of a new Yankee (I know I’m hoping he does very well), but you’ve got the wrong end of everything.
The only thing I'll say on the matter
is that after the 2007 NY Mets, I will never underestimate the importance of a nice strong bullpen again. My hope is that with the newly added strength of the SoMo Combo, it will give the young farmers a chance to shine a bit and see what they can do.
"WHO WOULD LEAD?! THE CLOWN?!"
by I'mGivingYouARaise on Jan 15, 2011 3:44 PM EST up reply actions
Well.
If the rotation isn’t going to be better, why not improve the pen? If there was a great starter available right now and the Yankees spent money on Soriano I would be fuming, but there isn’t and the Yankees still have enough money to sign/trade for one if that player becomes available. The Yankees didn’t address their needs because there aren’t many teams right now that are saying “have one of our starters, we don’t need Montero” What back end starter would you like? Kevin Millwood? The Yankees still have the money ($20 million left in the budget) to sign one of those starters, plus get Soriano to make the bullpen even better. The Yankees didn’t go after the one guy that was available in Greinke, so that is their fault.
I thought you were on the side of giving the young guys a chance in the rotation? If the Yankees have to keep let’s just say David Phelps’ innings down, he can pitch five innings and be relieved by one of the best bullpens in the game.
As for Yankees vs. Red Sox, just explaining a misconception that I am sick of hearing about.
Of course it is never fun to lose a draft pick, but I do believe that with the Yankees scouting they can find that gem with the later pick.
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Millwood?
hmm not sure if that is the best but he’s better than Mitre.
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Just an example of what is available. I’d actually take Duschererererererererer.
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The kids are going to get a shot either way, because the rotation is paper thin. If you’re going to take a flier with $35MM, and every relief pitcher is nothing but a flier, signing Millwood, Young, Duchscherer, or any other back end starter is a far superior strategy.
Adding a good player always makes the team better, but Soriano really doesn’t make any sense for the Yankees. When added to the fact that he was a Type A free agent, is being paid like a closer, has had arm injuries, and is a relief pitcher, there’s not many good things that I can say about the signing.
I think it's as much of a misconception to say ours > theirs on January 15th
as it is for them to say the same. No one knows how it’s going to shake out. I hate that we have to lower the level of discussion by using greater than or less than signs arbitrarily anyway, regardless of who is doing it.
As far as giving the kids a chance, of course that’s what some of us want. However, it’s still a question mark to figure out how often they will be able to get to the strong bullpen with the game still being close. If Phelps gives up 6 runs in the first 2 innings and it goes downhill from there, the bullpen could be as strong as you want it to be and it likely won’t matter. I think Soriano makes us better and I’m happy to have him, but our weaknesses could very well offset the positives he brings if we don’t have some kind of consistency after CC and Phil in the rotation.
People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring.
by WhatwouldJeterdo on Jan 15, 2011 3:59 PM EST up reply actions
This too. No one is more inconsistent than relief pitchers. Maybe Joba gets traded, D-Rob gets hurt, Soriano sees a nice Yankee Stadium spike in his numbers, and 42 year old Mo puts it on cruise control until the playoffs. Or maybe none of that happens, who knows.
Then, saying our bullpen > your bullpen looks really, really stupid as it’s entirely based on nothing.
Just a quick point
But if no one is more inconsistent than relief pitchers, isn’t it a very good thing that we got another good relief pitcher?
"WHO WOULD LEAD?! THE CLOWN?!"
by I'mGivingYouARaise on Jan 15, 2011 4:08 PM EST up reply actions
Outside the Mariano Rivera division, there’s really no such thing as a good relief pitcher. You see guys like Jonathan Broxton go from dominant closer to AAA in the blink of an eye. Also, relievers have a much greater likelihood of going down with injury.
So we’re paying $35MM to someone who was good last year, but is very likely to be less good, and has a considerable risk of more arm trouble while he’s here. He provides minimally more value than a home grown league minimum player like David Robertson. Except if D-Rob falls into the endless pit of once-good, now-failed relievers, the Yankees are out just about nothing. If Soriano does, we’re still on the hook for 8 figures a year.
Then again my point stands.
If relievers have a much greater likelihood of going down with injury, it’s not a bad idea to stockpile them then, especially one who shows as much promise as Soriano. Plus, according to Ed’s post, he’s going to be mentored by the best closer in history, so who knows how well this could work out for Soriano and the Yankees.
And if it doesn’t work out, the Yankees will eat the contract. They’ve done it before and they’ll do it again, then come back later on or next year with another playoff ready caliber team.
"WHO WOULD LEAD?! THE CLOWN?!"
by I'mGivingYouARaise on Jan 15, 2011 4:19 PM EST up reply actions
You stockpile cheap, interchangeable pieces so it doesn’t matter if one or more of them goes down. You don’t invest 12 million a season into one guy who is just as likely to turn into a pumpkin as anyone else.
The Yankees certainly can eat the contract if that’s the way this ends up going, but they still should be smarter about their investments.
Why not?
Especially in this era of Yankee Baseball. They wanted to bolster their bullpen, so they went out and got one of the best in the game right now, and they didn’t have to trade away the farm or other interchangeable pieces to do it. I’d much rather they do this then trade to the Royals for Soria, even though I’m convinced we could’ve gotten him for some Magic Beans due to the majesty that truly is Dayton Moore.
This is the era of Yankee Baseball we live in: Over-spending for players. For all we know, we still go out and spend that money for a back end 4th or 5th starter.
"WHO WOULD LEAD?! THE CLOWN?!"
by I'mGivingYouARaise on Jan 15, 2011 4:34 PM EST up reply actions
Well, we are in agreement that it’s much better than trading for Soria. That would have been outright madness.
I know your feelings on spending, but I maintain that even the Yankees don’t grow money on trees, and money wasted today is money that can’t be wisely used tomorrow.
I'd like to think that Yankee Money doesn't grow on tress either.
But year after year they continue to prove me wrong. They were 100% ready to blow the bank on Lee. The only reason they didn’t is because Lee didn’t want to come, and I’m a happier person for it.
This is why I have no real problem with the Soriano signing. The Yankees, as much as I don’t want them too, are going to spend dat ca$h. I 100% agree that Soriano does not guarantee much in terms of the season, but I do think he makes the bullpen a lot better, and possibly provides a future replacement for Mo. So, my hope with this is that instead of blowing the bank on a starter in the future, it allows them to build a better pitching staff with what they have available. Maybe this makes them bring up Man-Ban or someone else, and gives our younger farm system a chance to wear the Pinstripes of legend.
That is what I want to see. It’s what I miss about the 90’s Yankees compared to the current Yankees era. Believe me, I would prefer to see the Yankees actually build a team, then use their Money Bin to keep said team together. That, to me, is one of the best things about having Yankee Money in the first place. This is what separates us from the Rays.
"WHO WOULD LEAD?! THE CLOWN?!"
by I'mGivingYouARaise on Jan 15, 2011 4:59 PM EST up reply actions
You've gotta think positively, Waffles. Like you're all drizzled in 100% Pure Maple Syrup positive!
CC is CC, and I think we all think Hughes is going to hopefully continue his Philthiness. But, it’s possible he could regress. However, we can hope that he won’t and we can also hope that AJ has a phoenix-y season. Hell, for all the shit Sergio gets, he could actually have a decent season.
This is what’s exciting about baseball, especially THIS year. There’s no guarantee of victory. We get to see young starters come up and hopefully shine, with a nice solid bullpen providing the arch support we need. I mean, last year it was a guarantee that the Yankees were making it to the playoffs. This year it’s not. And you know what? It’s good to have that feeling again. I’ve missed it.
"WHO WOULD LEAD?! THE CLOWN?!"
by I'mGivingYouARaise on Jan 15, 2011 4:05 PM EST up reply actions
I am thinking positively, but I'm not going to fool myself into being falsely content.
The team is good, but there are a lot of question marks left to be dealt with. For all the good things that could happen, equally bad things could happen. I’m thinking positively, but also realistically.
People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring.
by WhatwouldJeterdo on Jan 15, 2011 4:09 PM EST up reply actions
There are always question marks to be dealt with.
There hasn’t been a “perfect” team since the 98’ Yankees, and there never will be again. Bad things can always happen. Like I mentioned before, look at the 2007 Mets. They had really 3 good starters, and one of the worst bullpens in the league, and at the end of the year they had that to quote Keith Hernandez “biblical” collapse. If their bullpen didn’t blow just half of the games they blew, they make it to the playoffs instead of the Phillies.
You can think as realistic as you want. Realistically speaking though, no matter what the Yankees do, there’s absolutely no way to know what’s going to happen.
"WHO WOULD LEAD?! THE CLOWN?!"
by I'mGivingYouARaise on Jan 15, 2011 4:14 PM EST up reply actions
Well, obviously.
However, it’s silly to say that there aren’t more question marks now than there have been recently. No one knows what will happen, but predicting that everyone will be as good as they were last year or improve is just a little too far out of the realm of realism for me to buy into. Some will be better, some will be worse, and some will probably be about the same. Having 2 holes and one giant maybe, but hopefully in the rotation isn’t going to make people sleep better at night until they can prove they are able to handle it and/or improve, none of which is happening today or tomorrow. Which is why I said that it’s silly to say us > Red Sox or anything like that in January. No one knows.
People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring.
by WhatwouldJeterdo on Jan 15, 2011 4:19 PM EST up reply actions
To be honest, good!
I’m actually glad there are some question marks this year, and more areas of concern. For me, it makes the game a whole lot more exciting. This is why I never wanted Cliff Lee in the first place. It wasn’t because I didn’t think he was overall worth the money we’d spend on him, or the years, or that he wasn’t talented. It was because I just don’t really think it’s fair. For me, having Cliff Lee in our rotation just makes the game a whole lot less fun.
And sorry, but Baseball isn’t realistic. Hoping that teams will be good, hoping that players will bounce back, hoping that your team will overcome all odds: that’s what baseball is about to me. I 100% agree that it’s silly to say that we’re a better team than the Red Sox. But you know what? F#$K THE RED SOX. We ARE a better team than them, because I think we are. We might not be this year, both on paper and realistically, but that doesn’t come into play when I root for my team.
And this is what I think is lost on the newer generation of Yankees fans, and possibly baseball fans as a whole. I’m not directly saying you, my dear Waffles, but I’m just referring to what I see, especially with Yankees fans since 98’. The newer gen of Yankees fan, IMO, do not really know what it’s like to lose (I mean, REALLY lose) or what it’s like to have a team not look like a playoff contender every single year.
"WHO WOULD LEAD?! THE CLOWN?!"
by I'mGivingYouARaise on Jan 15, 2011 4:30 PM EST up reply actions
If you want to be overly optimistic, that's your right.
However, I’m going to be more realistic and keep my expectations manageable so that the risk of disappointment is lower. Better to be pleasantly surprised than the alternative. I don’t care that they might not make the playoffs and I don’t think that’s the end of the world, nor did I want Cliff Lee either (not out of fairness, but because it’s too ridiculous to pay someone that old that much money for that many years), but I’m not going to arbitrarily say we are better than this team or that team before the season starts. Saying we are better to make me feel better about it won’t actually make me feel better about it when it comes time to actually play if it turns out to be a vast overestimation.
Saying we have holes to fill doesn’t mean I will root for them any less than I would if they were the hands down favorite. It doesn’t mean I will watch them less. It just means I’m tempering my expectations for what is actually in front of me, not what I wish was there or hope will be there.
People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring.
by WhatwouldJeterdo on Jan 15, 2011 4:44 PM EST up reply actions
Overall then, it's just a difference of personality.
I always look on the bright side of life, as it were. I’m actually a very realistic person & individual, which is what allows me to be overly optimistic about the Yankees. To me, my over-optimism is rewarded when a player like Brett Gardner exceeds my expectations. It’s rewarded whenever we crush the lowly Red Sox, whether we are better than them on paper or not. And if we’re not, oh well. Better luck next time.
Realistically, it’s just sport and all these people make way more money than I think they should! LoL
"WHO WOULD LEAD?! THE CLOWN?!"
by I'mGivingYouARaise on Jan 15, 2011 5:05 PM EST up reply actions
+1
It’s sport. It allows us to exaggerate and dream a bit when we wouldn’t do so otherwise. I’m a pretty stolid person, with a pretty much drama-free path towards everything. That’s why I’ve always wondered how I can be so invested in a team. And yet when the Yankees do well, I just feel like I’m having a better day. And obviously, a close loss (I’m thinking of the September regular season series in Texas right now) or two are such a pain in the ass.
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by Hasan Paliwala on Jan 16, 2011 2:40 AM EST up reply actions
It's not like the Yankees are being handcuffed financially right now
You say that they should have spent his money on a back-end starter and that it would be a better way to improve the team. But the Yankees still have a ton of money left over to spend on a back-end starting pitcher and a fourth outfielder should they wish to get one.
To me, what this deal does is it gives the Yankees the most dominant back end of the bullpen in the league. I know the Yankees pen was strong already, but what this does is it deepens the bullpen. Thats what I think this helps more than anything. Joba, Robertson, Feliciano and Logan can all now be used in middle innings in a close game should a starter get in trouble. Even Soriano could pitch earlier than the eighth should they need him. But he gives the Yankees an extra strong arm and an extra weapon out of the bullpen. We saw the difference Kerry Wood made to the Yankees last season, and Soriano will provide similar results. He’s a dominant reliever. He’s been anywhere from very solid to dominant in the last four seasons and there’s no question to me that he’ll improve the team.
Adding an extra strong arm is never a “wasteful” signing. Cliff Lee isn’t a “wasteful” signing to the Phillies is he? But the same argument could be made that their rotation was one of the best in the league already and they should have used his money to strengthen other areas. But I’m willing to bet Lee is gonna make a big difference for the Phils. I know it’s a starter-reliever comparison and Soriano won’t have as big an impact on the Yanks as Lee will on the Phillies but the principle is the same.
Adding Soriano deepens the Yankees bullpen and strengthens the team. And the Yankees still have money left over for spare parts (fourth outfielder, back-end starter, Andy Pettitte). Maybe it’s because I love the move, but I don’t see why anyone is against this signing.
"I'll do whatever it takes to win games, whether it's sitting on a bench waving a towel, handing a cup of water to a teammate, or hitting the game-winning shot."- Kobe Bryant
Please come back Andy!
I wonder if we could trade Joba & Misc. for perhaps a Wandy Rodriguez
"WHO WOULD LEAD?! THE CLOWN?!"
by I'mGivingYouARaise on Jan 15, 2011 3:50 PM EST reply actions
Problem is Astros can contend so they have no reason to trade him.
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They can contend?
"WHO WOULD LEAD?! THE CLOWN?!"
by I'mGivingYouARaise on Jan 15, 2011 3:52 PM EST up reply actions
I think the entire NL Central minus Pirates are possible playoff teams. Not contend for World Series, I mean contend for playoffs.
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I disagree
I mean, I don’t think they are Pirates awful (trust me, I had to log a lot of Pirates games last year and it was PAAAAAAAAINFUL) but I don’t think they are contending with the Reds, the Cards, and the now Grienkified Brew Crew.
"WHO WOULD LEAD?! THE CLOWN?!"
by I'mGivingYouARaise on Jan 15, 2011 3:56 PM EST up reply actions
If not this year, they are a contending team in the near future. Gotta admit, I have a mancrush on the Astros lately. Johnson, Wallace, Castro. Also I think J.A. Happ will be a star.
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But this is why they might trade Wandy for Joba & some younger players.
They are growing as a team, and they might consider it.
I don’t like their stadium though, or mainly that stupid rise in CF. I hate that thing.
"WHO WOULD LEAD?! THE CLOWN?!"
by I'mGivingYouARaise on Jan 15, 2011 4:07 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, makes for some nice plays, but that’s like having a giant wall in left field. Who does that?
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Morons & bad designers.
"WHO WOULD LEAD?! THE CLOWN?!"
by I'mGivingYouARaise on Jan 15, 2011 4:09 PM EST up reply actions
Every inning had equal meaning I think.
The 1st inning is just as valuable as the 9th. My belief.
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I agree with this basic idea in terms of approach, but the number of outs left matters.
WPA, for instance, swings a lot more per out and run in the late innings, simply because there is less opportunity to counter them, and strategy can (and should) be adjusted accordingly. But certainly, a run in the first counts the same on the scoreboard as one in the ninth.
Usqueadbaugham! Anam muck an dhoul ! Did ye drink me doornail?
nope
8th inning>all other innings
why do you think Cashman is holding Joba captive there?
CRAWWL MEAT!!
by Brian5517209 on Jan 15, 2011 9:35 PM EST up reply actions
If Soriano options out after 1 season, we still lose a #1 draft choice, correct????
Don’t know if I like that
Yes. But if Soriano pitches well, he’ll most likely earn Type A free agent status and the Yankees will gain two draft picks when, after opting out, he declines the team’s arbitration offer.
by Scooby Snacks on Jan 15, 2011 9:23 PM EST up reply actions
big "if"
I’m not completely sure he’s gonna opt out even if he has a dominating season. If he has a dominant season and the Yankees make a big playoff run, would he give that up to go through FA again?
Time will tell. I don’t know a whole lot about the type of person Soriano is or what’s important to him. But lets not assume that he’s going to opt out after the season, regardless of his performance.
"I'll do whatever it takes to win games, whether it's sitting on a bench waving a towel, handing a cup of water to a teammate, or hitting the game-winning shot."- Kobe Bryant
Please come back Andy!
I don't know why he'd opt out
I would hope that he likes playing for a team that has a legitimate shot at winning the World Series every year. Even being the set-up man… he’ll quietly turn into one of the biggest blocks of building a championship team.
March 31st can't come soon enough.
by Chris McKeown on Jan 15, 2011 9:52 PM EST up reply actions
closing is the ONLY reason he should even consider opting out
And I wouldn’t think it’s worth leaving money (nobody is paying him as much as the Yanks) and the chance to win just for that. And there’s a good chance he may close in his last year of the contract should Mo retire. And I’d think that learning under Mariano Rivera would be a great experience he wouldn’t want to give up either.
He may or may not opt out, but I’m going to wait until after the season before even making a judgement. The way I look at it right now, he’s here for three years and the first is coming up.
"I'll do whatever it takes to win games, whether it's sitting on a bench waving a towel, handing a cup of water to a teammate, or hitting the game-winning shot."- Kobe Bryant
Please come back Andy!
Yeah that sounds about right
March 31st can't come soon enough.
by Chris McKeown on Jan 15, 2011 10:07 PM EST up reply actions
Here is a thought
Can you imagine the leverage other teams would have in trade talks with the Yankees if Mo goes down. Next year when Mo is more than likely playing his last seaon,what would a prime closer be worth to the Yankees…I don’t know…But i would love to be that players agent.
are you assuming Soriano opts out?
if so, then they have leverage. if Soriano stays, how would other teams have leverage? there’s already a closer on the roster.
I believe in the Church of Baseball
Free FreeBradshaw!
by Frank Campagnola on Jan 15, 2011 10:20 PM EST up reply actions
Not a worry at all
The Yankee kids will get a look in spring training. Plenty of time before the trade deadline to see what we have and what we will consider trading for.
PATIENCE…PATIENCE …PATIENCE
Why trade now for a pig in poke when you can see which pitchers have what it takes in 2011. It is the Yankees and Boston in the playoffs. Unless one them has complete breakdown.
I haven't heard a single Red Sox fan say our pen is better than yours
We may have mocked the money (like you guys did with our Crawford signing), but the majority of us realized that he is a good pitcher that makes the Yankees bad end better. Most of us realize our pen has the potential to be good, but Papelbon and Jenks need to prove they can be dominant again or it will be another year of blown saves and mediocre pitching out of the pen.
Marisa said it
Thats really it I think. Also I think you meant “makes the Yankees back end better” not “bad end”.
"I'll do whatever it takes to win games, whether it's sitting on a bench waving a towel, handing a cup of water to a teammate, or hitting the game-winning shot."- Kobe Bryant
Please come back Andy!
the Yanks were
80-7 last year when they entered the 8th with a lead. that was without Soriano. is paying a guy $12M worth maybe, slightly improving that number?
but if it gets Joba a chance to start, i’ll be fine with it.
by Travis G on Jan 17, 2011 3:15 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
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