Rafael Soriano, the New York Yankees, and a Huge Facepalm
by 3460kuri on Jan 14, 2011 9:01 AM EST
in New York Yankees Analysis
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PrintRafael Soriano is an excellent reliever coming off a career season, and my disappointment with the New York Yankees signing him centers solely on the price Brian Cashman had to pay to get him.
The Yankees play by their own set of financial rules, but this is just idiotic. This contract makes Soriano the 5th-highest paid reliever in MLB based on average annual value, and where the four pitchers ahead of him - Mariano Rivera, Francisco Rodriguez, Brad Lidge, and Joe Nathan - were dominant closers for several seasons prior to earning their eight-figure paydays, Soriano has been a dominant closer for only two seasons. In the high-burnout world of relievers, this is not insignificant, but the Yankees are now giving him top-5 closer money not to close, but to pitch the 8th inning until Mariano Rivera retires.
Or maybe not. This deal also includes a player opt-out clause after both the first and second seasons, which makes the risk/reward scale tip very heavily towards the "risk" side for the Yankees. If he performs well, he will surely opt out, but if he doesn't, let's hope the memory of Kyle Farnsworth and Damaso Marte have given Hal and Hank Steinbrenner a soft spot for flushing money down the middle relief toilet.
The best outcome for this deal probably involves the Yankees getting 65 dominant relief innings in exchange for $11.6 million and their 2011 first round draft pick. Mind you, so few innings at such a high price really isn't a good outcome, especially not when you paid it to add to a position of strength. Adding Soriano to a 'pen that ranked 4th in WAR, 5th in FIP, and 4th in K/BB ratio last season is kind of like acquiring Albert Pujols to upgrade over Mark Teixeira.
Also, let's not engage in any revisionist history about 1996. One of the main reasons the Yankees bullpen was so valuable that season was because Mariano Rivera and John Wetteland combined to pitch over 170 innings. Rivera and Soriano will be lucky to crack 120 in 2011, even less if either of them spend any time on the DL.
In the end, the Yankees paid a very high price to slightly upgrade a position of strength and find themselves with a high-risk, low-reward contract and a reliever who's career path could easily resemble that of Eric Gagne, Chad Cordero, and the all the other short-lived dominant closers littered throughout recent baseball history. We just don't know yet.
Yipee.
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Disappointment?
I wouldn’t care if the Yankees dumped more cash at his feet. We needed to counter what the Sux did, and I believe adding a guy who could potentially be a lockdown 8th inning guy and fill-in for Mo (He is past 40 and injuries do happen) is a smart move.
Realistically, who cares about the money? The Yankees’ fans demand a winner and the Yankees have a license to print money — it’s a beautiful thing. What did we give up — a draft pick? Gimme a break.
This is potentially a great sign provided Soriano’s 2010 season wasn’t an flash in the pan.
I find it funny when fans take swipes at the Yankees for throwing money around to build a team, yet few mention the fact that the Yankees pay millions every year in luxury tax …
"Baseball is the background music of my life." -George Will
Adding Soriano to a ’pen that ranked 4th in WAR, 5th in FIP, and 4th in K/BB ratio last season is kind of like acquiring Albert Pujols to upgrade over Mark Teixeira
Put this with a contract that’s about as team-UNfriendly as possible, and I hate this contract.
Hate the contract ...
Don’t hate the result. … and I’d take Albert over Tex every day of the year. I’d even help Mark pack (and I love the guy). This was a strong move to solidify a pen that as you pointed out was already pretty strong. But bullpens are as temperamental as Hollywood starlets — you are never completely sure what you are going to get. Adding a late inning specialist like Soriano (who doesn’t have a high innings count and who has been healthy for most of his career) vastly improves our already strong pen. This is a great sign — especially considering there isn’t much out there right now.
"Baseball is the background music of my life." -George Will
You hit on most of my points inadvertantly
Hate the contract, don’t hate the result
I agree 100%. Soriano is a great pitcher. It’s just the contract that’s terrible.
I’d take Albert over Tex every day of the year
Me too. But players aren’t free, and my point is that if Tex is already your first baseman, it really doesn’t make sense to spend what it would take to get Pujols.
bullpens are as temperamental as Hollywood starlets
They are, and Soriano is not immune from this either.
(Soriano)…has been healthy for most of his career
No he hasn’t. He missed significant time in 2004, 2005, and 2008.
yeah with TJ and ulnar nerve surgery
CRAWWL MEAT!!
by Brian5517209 on Jan 14, 2011 4:36 PM EST up reply actions
Are you kidding?
Soriano has not been healthy most of his career. In fact I think last year was the first year of his career without a DH stint.
Having said that I don’t mind this move. I would like it even better if he doesn’t have a no trade clause. I could imagine moving him at the trade deadline.
When did Soriano DH?
Can he hit lefties?
Should you choose to test my resolve in this matter, you will be facing a finality beyond your comprehension, and you will not be counting days, or months, or years, but milleniums in a place with no doors.
by YankeesJets on Jan 14, 2011 10:00 AM EST up reply actions
lefties can hit him that is for sure
CRAWWL MEAT!!
by Brian5517209 on Jan 14, 2011 4:36 PM EST up reply actions
We needed to counter what the Sux did?
Please explain how this counters what the Sux did and why you think we need to counter them…
There's always next year
Shortens the game ...
We counter the Sux’s lengthy and lethal lineup by shortening the game. Adding Soriano in theory at least forces the Sux to do their damage in 7 innings.
"Baseball is the background music of my life." -George Will
Not a bad move, but not a great contract...
I don’t like that this guy can opt out and ask for MORE money. If you’re coming to the Yankees and you’re setting up the all-time greatest closer in what may be his final contract, wouldn’t that be enough (along with the millions of $$) to not need an opt out clause? I mean he’s the heir-apparent. If I was Soriano, I would love to learn from Mariano so that I could be as dominant for years to come!
You could study with Einstein for a lifetime and never be a genius.
When you look at guys like Maddux or Pedro or Mo, their hands are strange. Ever try to throw a split finger fastball? What makes these guys incredible can’t really be taught (imo).
"Have faith in the Yankees, my son. Think of the great DiMaggio."
CC has ...
the same deal essentially. I think he can opt out after this year and ask for more money. I don’t hear much squawking about his deal and I think he has a much stronger case for siphoning more cash from the Yankees than anyone else?
"Baseball is the background music of my life." -George Will
Different set of circumstances
The Yankees were DESPERATE for starting pitching when they signed CC. Their need for a releiver prior to this signing was nowhere close to that.
CC could opt out after 3 years, and so while it’s still undesirable, they’d at least get a few good seasons.
Also
CC’s opt out was all about comfort- if he and his family hated NYC, he could use it. He has publicly said he won’t use it, and until I hear otherwise, I believe him. I even respect a player thinking about his family enough to structure a deal that way (though obviously, he was in the driver’s seat in the negotiation).
I’ve heard no such logic yet about Soriano. This deal is all business, and it’s a bad deal from that regard.
"Have faith in the Yankees, my son. Think of the great DiMaggio."
Jscape ...
Normally I agree with you, but not here. We are talking money and the 31st pick here. The Yankees have more money than God, so why should they show restraint when they have a need or think they have a need?
"Baseball is the background music of my life." -George Will
Yeah...you are right but....
I feel that this is kind of an insurance plan if Mo gets injured as he is aging….AND when he retires. There aren’t many good relievers that are readily availabe two seasons later. What will we do then??? This is a great 8-9 inning closer as we have seen in 96…I like it…
I don’t even mind the money- I hate the opt out clause. If it was 3 years I’d grumble. But it’s 3 years if he’s hurt or lousy, 1 year if he’s brilliant.
"Have faith in the Yankees, my son. Think of the great DiMaggio."
I have to agree with Kuri and think that the best possible course of action is that he is great for 1 year and then opts out to be a closer elsewhere.
If he is great for 1 year and then opts out to be a closer elsewhere the Yanks have given up this year’s first round pick for 2 first round picks next year at a cost of a great season for $11.6 mil. Opting out on that basis is not as hurtful to the Yanks as it would look on the surface and they could still sign him again if that is what the team needs.
I like this move
Four years ago, no way. I usually hate signing other team’s closers, but this time it is different. First, Yankees need a shut down pen with all the rotation questions. Second, Mo is 41 and the risk of him getting hurt is greater than ever. God forbid if that happened the Yankees still have a quality closer. If Soriano does well he could be the new closer when Mo retires, and a possible bridge to developing a new young closer or a better free agent option.
by upstateNYYFan1984 on Jan 14, 2011 9:33 AM EST reply actions
Can we please get a starter now?
or maybe we just have have the starters we have now, except CC, pitch 3 innings or less and then the bullpen can come in every inning after.
Yes...
I saw we were kicking the tires on Bonderman. I know he’s been hurt, but he’s young and apparently healthy. I’d take a shot at him, or try to package Joba (while his perceived value is still relatively high).
"Baseball is the background music of my life." -George Will
i wouldn’t mind packaging joba or getting jeff Francis on a one year deal then letting the young guys compete for the last spot. I want brackman to be other 5th imo.
Francis just signed with the Royals, per MLBTR
"Game's the same, just got more fierce." ~ Slim Charles
by Captain_Mick on Jan 14, 2011 10:27 AM EST up reply actions
the idea of Joba’s value being up is laughable. On what planet is this true?
by jetanumba2 on Jan 14, 2011 10:05 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Didn't say that ...
I said “his perceived value is still high”. Anyone who has watched him pitch day in and day out knows that his value is dropping faster than Paris Hilton drops her underwear. No one said anything about his value being up. That’s why I’d move him.
"Baseball is the background music of my life." -George Will
Cashland
And I thought it couldn’t get any worse than the Granderson deal, which will bite us in the ass for years to come.
How’s this for little or no win?
1. We lose draft pick;
2. Soriano is good in 2011. He opts out at end of year and Boras sells him to highest bidder;
3. Soriano is lousy in 2011. We’re stuck with him for at least 1 more year;
4. Soriano is good in 2012. He opts out at end of that year and Boras sells him to highest bidder;
5. Soriano is lousy in both 2011 and 2012. We can only hope that he does well in his walk year so that he is marketable for his next contract, a la Beltre.
Welcome to Cashland.
oh it's granderson's number 1 fan
hey haven;t seen you in a while. still trying to convince everyone granderson is the worstest player ever even though this post has nothing to do with him?
hey genius read the other thread i called this move stupid. Unlike last year his moves some which didn;t pan out but had great upside. this one doesn’t. Somehow you still are hung up on the grandy deal despite the fact he played well for us down the stretch and is pretty moot now. Still worstestplayereva am i rightz?
Looking for some starting pitching?
How about Ian Kennedy and Phil Coke? They’d sure come in handy now – better than Sergio Mitre and Jeremy Bonderman!
Granderson? Who cares. He’s on the downside of his career. It’s the boatload they gave up to get him.
Sparky I have to disagree here
Kennedy and Coke arent any better than what we have in the minors coming up like Nova. I hate that we have to keep revisiting the Grandy deal, it wasnt a bad one. Keep in mind where both of those guys pitch.
Should you choose to test my resolve in this matter, you will be facing a finality beyond your comprehension, and you will not be counting days, or months, or years, but milleniums in a place with no doors.
by YankeesJets on Jan 14, 2011 10:04 AM EST up reply actions
Seriously phil coke as a starter? right… Ian Kennedy pitched pretty averagely last year in the NL west host of the league’s most inefficient offenses. Plus we have pitching depth like phelps, nosei, and the B’s who are younger and have better upsides. And for a guy on the downside of his career he still ranked as one of the top CFers last year…go figure.
Seriously this post has nothing to do with Grandy and everything to do with Soriano’s bad contract which i AGREED with you on. I’m just annoyed at how you can somehow relate this separate event and deal to the Grandy deal and make it seem it was the worst thing ever. The Grandy thing is done and over with, he played well for us down the stretch and we can only hope he keeps it up next year.
When did IPK turn into such a legendary figure?
I cant ever recall so much love for such a mediocre pitcher. I mean the guy had an ERA of close to 4 while playing in the worst division in the majors when it comes to offense.
Should you choose to test my resolve in this matter, you will be facing a finality beyond your comprehension, and you will not be counting days, or months, or years, but milleniums in a place with no doors.
by YankeesJets on Jan 14, 2011 10:13 AM EST up reply actions
"Have faith in the Yankees, my son. Think of the great DiMaggio."
by jscape2000 on Jan 14, 2011 11:07 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Classic!!
Should you choose to test my resolve in this matter, you will be facing a finality beyond your comprehension, and you will not be counting days, or months, or years, but milleniums in a place with no doors.
by YankeesJets on Jan 14, 2011 11:10 AM EST up reply actions
This is hilarious
March 31st can't come soon enough.
by Chris McKeown on Jan 14, 2011 11:23 AM EST up reply actions
Can;t forget the mighty phil coke and his 4+ era as a reliever and his love for giving up glorious homeruns.
http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/gameday/y2009/index.jsp?gid=2009_11_02_nyamlb_phimlb_1#multimedia
how quickly we forget the amazing LOOGY would couldn’t get any lefties out during game 5
not a great deal
but that’s hindsight. isn’t hindsight grand?
IPK was not going anyway in NYC. He pitched well in Arizona, but not great, and has a HR problem. He was given chances here and didn’t execute, plus his attitude was supposedly bad.
Coke is not good. Why Detroit is starting him I do not know. He was trash in the minors, and only improved when moved into the bullpen. I would trade Coke 100x over for Granderson.
The only bad part of the deal is Granderson for Jackson, which isn’t even that bad. Granderson, right now and for the near future, is better than Jackson. The reason it’s not that good is the age. Jackson is up and coming, while Granderson has seemingly peaked.
That said, people forget that Granderson posted a near 4 WAR, which is excellent. That was in just 136 games as well. So his WAR/700 was 4.8! That’s really good. It’s better than his career WAR/700.
Yes, A-Jax posted a 3.8 WAR but I don’t see him touching that in the next couple seasons unless his defense is Andruw Jones-esque. His BABIP was .396, which is absurd even with a 24% LD rate. His GB% was a smidge under 50% which is not good (means lots of outs in all likelihood) his BB is poor and he doesn’t have a ton of power- which isn’t help out by the fact he hits way more grounders than fly balls and plays in Comerica.
RU RAH RAH
RU RAH RAH
Ian Kennedy pitching in the AL East is an assault waiting to happen.
Phil Coke is turrible.
Granderson……..are we really questioning Granderson? Jackson wishes he could hit like Granderson. He’d sell his soul just to hit like Granderson, even in a down year.
This is comical.
2010 Statistics lie
Kennedy WAR 2.4
Coke WAR 1.1
But we had Vasquez WAR -0.2 and Marte WAR -0.1
And Javy and Damaso have great Yankee futures, too…
Cashman apologists rejoice!
by SparkySaves on Jan 14, 2011 12:02 PM EST up reply actions
What does those two have anything to do with each other? Oh yeah also ignore the fact Javy posted up a 6 WAR in the year before. That was the guy we expected and cashman traded for not the -.2 WAR guy. Hey but with all the money we have Cashman should have bought a goddamn crystal ball right?
His crystal ball says sign Soriano...
so do you agree? I went on record against the Granderson, Vasquez, Johnson, Matsui and Damon “deals” last year. Did you? I don’t have a crystal ball, just some common sense – same as you’re using to figure out that the Soriano deal is stupid. We gave up way too much with Granderson. Vasquez’s year in Atlanta was a fluke if you look at context of years prior, vast amount of innings pitched and drop in velocity. Then consider past failure in NY and giving up Melky (OK, I was wrong there) and Vizcaino (potential future closer). Granderson is on downside of career. Cashman was wrong about Jackson’s readiness and Kennedy’s and Coke’s upsides. He’s an overpaid GM with way too much margin for error. Give me Kevin Towers any day of the week.
by SparkySaves on Jan 14, 2011 12:29 PM EST up reply actions
I don’t like the Soriano deal. The Javy deal was good if Javy was preforming to his normal standards which makes him a 4 War Pitcher. And for the record mid season wise before his late collapse he was our second best pitcher and was on route to his normal 4ish WAR before the complete melt down
. Matsui and Damon both weren’t very good last year. Let just say if you combined Matsui and Damon’s value last year…they barely beat beat out Grandy. Common sense says the deals he made last year gave up great upside, the fact they didn’t all work was more of a fluke than anything like Ajax’s BABIP.
and for the record i don’t think Cashman is like an OMG amazing GM. I think he’s decent, but not as horrendous as you make him, probably above average. He makes good moves and bad moves. Sometimes he makes good moves that don’t work out. Basically every GM does that. No one has a perfect track record.
What better comparison than Javy in NY...
when his WAR was 2.2? How could Cashman ignore that? He tempted fate because there were no consequences to him of being wrong. And for the record, Javy’s early season was a DISASTER. He was nearly booed off the mound and sent to AAA, you may recall.
No one is comparing Granderson to Matsui and Damon. Matsui was DH – compare him to Johnson, as that was Cashman’s plan. Damon was LF in 2009, with Melky/Gardner in CF. But look at the LONG TERM in what was given up. Talk BABIP all you want now, Jackson is a good ballplayer and will be for years. I will be back on this MB next year to take the heat or credit for this: Granderson will be benched/part-time or traded by August of 2011.
In the years ahead, Kennedy will emerge as a solid middle of the rotation starter. Coke has a chance for that too, or he could be a good long reliever or 7th-8th inning guy now.
by SparkySaves on Jan 14, 2011 12:48 PM EST up reply actions
jesus christ you realize how contradictory you are? first you point to Ian Kennedy’s 2.4 WAR as a reason we should have kept him. Then you point to aAvy’s 2.2 WAR when he was in NY as a tell tale sign of him going to suck…okay so wait Javy sucked in NY when he posted a 2.2 WAR so we should avoid him but IPK posting a 2.4 WAR in the NL friggin west equate to him being a stud that we should have kept? Seriously?
Okay Phil Coke in Detriot posted a 2.4% homerun/ flyball rate. That is unsustainable especially since he actually gave up more flyballs this year than last year (his HR/FB last year was an astounding 13.5%) See statistically speaking Phil coke didn;t get better, just that him moving to the a division where the ball parks are huge help hide his Fly ball tendencies and mask his home rates.
Oh yeah Grandy posted a 3.6 WAr last year…which last time i checked was pretty damn good among all CFers. And i really don’t get how you can scream LONG TERM then bash cashman for not giving deals to Damon and Matsui, in turn settling for stops gaps the team can get younger for the “long term”. Oh yeah if you forgot Grandy is still only 30, he is not going decline rapidly at that age. And his first half numbers + injuury skewed his overall production where his second half numbers are more of who he is…
.250-270 hitter with a decent OBP and monterous power.
Wait, you mean Ian Kennedy put up a 2.4 WAR in the NL West?
Color me shocked!
Lol @ Phil Coke. So wait, Coke goes to a weaker division and puts up 1.1 WAR. Color me shocked! Oh wait, you’re suggesting he would’ve put up those numbers in the AL East. Coke was given an 60 innings to prove his worth with Yanks and put up .2 WAR. Yikes!
Gee, you mean a team from the NL West won the WS? NOOOOO...
by SparkySaves on Jan 14, 2011 12:29 PM EST up reply actions
So now you're putting Ian Kennedy on the same level as Tim Lincecum,
Matt Cain, and Madison Bumgarner. Maybe he has a shot at being Jonathan Sanchez and Barry Zito.
Hmmmm... You mean a rookie might improve?
How the hell can that happen? Call Selig, tell him to make a rule against it. Now.
by SparkySaves on Jan 14, 2011 12:54 PM EST up reply actions
Apparently if they sign Balfour now, it doesn't cost a pick.
I guess once you lose your 1st round pick if you sign another type-A they can’t take another pick, maybe they just give the other team another sandwich pick.
by upstateNYYFan1984 on Jan 14, 2011 9:45 AM EST reply actions
I'm pretty sure you start losing your second round pick.
It’s just that second round picks are so much less valuable than first round picks, especially because the million sandwich picks in between.
Terrible contract…I don’t see the point of adding a reliever to a already dominant pen when we have other areas of concern like the rotation and the bench. Somehow i bet joba will still remain in the pen
You forget that there was a reason that the Yanks traded for Wood last year
It was out of need. While Joba and Robertson have some flashes of brilliance at times, neither could be trusted to get the lead to Mo. We lost Wood, who I might add many wanted to give similiar money to, so we needed to replace him with a sure thing. The contract is not pretty but I would rather overpay and win instead of pinching pennies.
Should you choose to test my resolve in this matter, you will be facing a finality beyond your comprehension, and you will not be counting days, or months, or years, but milleniums in a place with no doors.
by YankeesJets on Jan 14, 2011 10:08 AM EST up reply actions
I just feel we easily could have picked up another decent reliever at the trade deadline or before then, if our current pen isn’t panning out like we did last year. Joba is believe will improve, D-rob will be D-rob and we added Felciano to logan so we have 2 very good LOOGY. The pen i believe at that point was already good, assuming Girardi doesn’t use his “book”. Soriano is way overkill, he hasn’t been great that long and has extreme fly ball tendencies.
With two ? marks in the rotation
We might not have the luxary to wait until the deadline this year. Joba has not showed anything to us that he will improve or that Girardi even has any faith in him anymore. I also would not be surprised if the Yanks gave him these options with the hope that he uses them after this season.
Should you choose to test my resolve in this matter, you will be facing a finality beyond your comprehension, and you will not be counting days, or months, or years, but milleniums in a place with no doors.
by YankeesJets on Jan 14, 2011 11:09 AM EST up reply actions
thats what i’m thinking. He has a great year and ops out…win for the yanks. If he has two great years and ops out..not bad either. The pen will be pretty damn good this year…just the cost isn’t and the fact we lack the rotation to get us to our glorious pen.
I think Cash had to make some kind of move
This was the best one out there outside of Pavano, and we all know that wasnt going to happen. I think Soriano will be a better signing, even at that money, than a Fuentes or one of those bottom feeder starters.
Should you choose to test my resolve in this matter, you will be facing a finality beyond your comprehension, and you will not be counting days, or months, or years, but milleniums in a place with no doors.
by YankeesJets on Jan 14, 2011 11:21 AM EST up reply actions
Okay Cashman haters
I’m starting to see your point.
$35mil for a RP? Yeah, that’s pretty bad.
RU RAH RAH
RU RAH RAH
Glad to have him, but yeah, WTF is that contract about?
Player options every year? Seriously?
On the other hand, when they finally take the field in 2011, it will be nice to be able to look out in that bullpen and see another stud reliever like that backing up a shaky rotation. Even moreso if Joba is moved out of the pen like he should. I don’t even mind the money that much. Got the money, spend it.
"Game's the same, just got more fierce." ~ Slim Charles
It's good for our team
Mo is 40 (That’s 80 in baseball years). Wouldn’t you want insurance on an 80 yr. old man? The opt out clause is obviously pay back for Soriano not being the closer. But remember it’s just as likely that Robertson and/or Joba could be ready to replace him by then. Lastly, we’ve lowered the threshold for our rookie starters by one more inning and we’ve protected Montero.
Agree with everything above (except the Granderson- bashing), only two things to add:
1) Mariano’s health has been iffy for the past few seasons, even though he’s mostly avoided the DL, you could see him in the pen pressing a heating pad on his ribs or icing his forearm. Don’t kid yourselves, Soriano will close some games this year, either because Mariano is hurt, or Mariano just pitched 3 innings in the last two games.
2) When the score is Yankees 6, Boston 5 and Hughes is at 110 pitches going into the 8th, how much Soriano is being paid will be the last thing on your mind.
by designatedquitter on Jan 14, 2011 10:42 AM EST reply actions
Your hypothetical situation has no place in this hypothetical situation
"Game's the same, just got more fierce." ~ Slim Charles
by Captain_Mick on Jan 14, 2011 10:47 AM EST up reply actions
Remember when Cashman said we'd have the first round pick
Yeah….. I don’t really mind much though. I agree completely with Kuri’s positioning on the issue. That’s a lot of money to pay a set-up man with a short resume of accomplishments. I suppose the biggest thing that stands out to me is that he has proven he can close against the Yankees and Red Sox by pitching in the AL East with Tampa Bay… so the Yankees should be getting an excellent reliever for at least 2011.
March 31st can't come soon enough.
Just read on MLBTR
That the opt out clause was at the YANKEES request, and not Soriano’s/Boras’s…which makes the deal even more bizarre, IMHO.
Take it with a grain of salt until it’s confirmed, but just wanted to pass along what I’d read.
That would be insane
Wouldn’t they just try to work a mutual option in there instead? Or maybe a mutual option for $12 mn, with a player option for $10 mn. SOMETHING to favour the team? Cash’s left me scratching my head on this one.
The idiot formerly known as pkyankeefan! Now in Technicolour!
by Hasan Paliwala on Jan 14, 2011 10:51 AM EST up reply actions
Can't trust Joba
Joba doesn’t have any idea where the plate is. This move will make everything easier for all concerned.
Trade Joba, he is not a pitcher. Used to be a thrower. NG
Soriano just needs to be awesome this season, then opt out so the Yanks get draft picks.
That’s what I’m praying for.
Could be part of a bigger plan
like moving Joba back into the rotation.
Yeah, they kind of screwed with him the past couple of years. I think maybe because with his stuff, he was the best thing for a bridge to Mo that they have. So now, they get a bridge, and Joba can be back in the rotation mix again.
I’m not a big Joba fan, and he has proven to be much better in relief, but Joba is a one inning reliever at best because of his intensity in that situation. I’d rather use him as a starter and Dave Robertson for middle innings. This could be a way to finally get him settled in as a starter.
Awesome Move to get Soriano... Now we need a SP
We get one of last season’s best closer for a worthless 31st draft pick and cash without sacrificing any minor league talent is outstanding. We will be a lock down for the late innings and have protection for Mo.
Duksherer would be good if he is healthy and ready to go. Garcia is an option based on last years stats or we could package Joba & others for some better pitching talent.
Let’s pickup Andruw Jones as 4th OF & bench strength.
Things are looking better in Yankeeland!!!
by YANKEES FOREVER on Jan 14, 2011 11:15 AM EST reply actions
What team is going to let a (decent) starting pitcher go now?
The only teams I see doing that are ones that already know in January that this is a rebuilding year. So, the Mariners, the Orioles, the Pirates, the Royals, the D-Backs….any other teams you can think of?
In that group, I don’t see any good starting pitchers that would be worth trading for besides Hernandez on the Mariners and maybe Matusz on the Orioles. But the Yanks aren’t going to get either of those guys.
The Phils have let it be know Blanton is available, but he kinda sucksand I doubt the Phils, knowing the bindthe Yankees are in, are going to give any kind of a fair deal. The Yanks don’t want to get the wrong end of a deal for a #3-4 starter.
Duchsherer is a glass man. Garcia….meh.
I just really don’t see the Yanks getting any SP help now. There’s nothing available, and what is available is either overpriced or unreliable.
Jumipng to conclusions
… saying that he will surely take his option if he is successful is a bit of a jump. First, it is arguable that even getting a closer role with another team may not net him any higher pay … and … if things are going well, what fool of a relief pitcher would give up the spot in line behind Mo to become the Yankees closer. That would just be silly.
The luxury tax makes this deal look even worse.
40% tax on $35 mil. So more like $49 mil. So $16 mil a year plus a first-rounder for a reliever.
We did not expect to get Vasquez, after a great Atlanta season, so late in the post season last year either
We all know Javy was a bust for us last season but this could not have been anticipated based on his performance in Atlanta the year before.
This opportunity may present itself again if we can offer a package they want & they want to reduce salary expenses.
Again we are only looking for a quality veteran backend pitcher.
by YANKEES FOREVER on Jan 14, 2011 11:46 AM EST reply actions
We all know Javy was a bust for us last season but this could not have been anticipated based on his performance in Atlanta the year before.
Um… a lot of people did.
I did.
I trashed the deal the day it happened on my blog.
Here’s the link… check the date.
Sometimes all the checking WAR and breaking down the stats can make people lose sight of common sense… like he was a disaster in New York and why would the second go around be any different.
It wasn’t
A lot of people predicted it
by SullyBaseball on Jan 15, 2011 12:55 AM EST up reply actions
see the thing is there is no fact to back up the claims he would fail again aside from “gut” feeling. His failure was due to a 3 mph loss on his fastball, not the he can;t handle NY. Statistically speaking there was nothing that indicated he would be that bad, even if you take his first stint with us you have to realize he was an all star that year posting a 3ish ERA mid season before arm injuries derailed him. Also that one year sample was too small to say much. Had we not shipped him off so quickly he might have been a pretty decent starter for a while.
Soriano
I think that what the Yankees are doing is positioning themselves to ship Joba & Cervelli or Nunez/Pena to Chicago for big Z or give Joba a chance again to earn the 5th spot on the rotation in a mix of Mitre and possibly Duscherer…could happens…if aceves where healthy and the yankees had offered him a contract, we would’ve probably be set with CC, Hughes, Burned, Nova & Ace….
this might have been said already
but he’ll probably still be a type A free agent next year, so if he does have a great year, opts out, and signs elsewhere, the Yanks actually gain a pick from this. (lost 2011 first round pick, gain 2012 first round pick, 2012 supplementary pick).
I believe in the Church of Baseball
Free FreeBradshaw!
by Frank Campagnola on Jan 14, 2011 1:51 PM EST reply actions
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