Mitre is a better option than Nova
by Cbeck3 on Jan 13, 2011 8:52 AM EST
Email
Print
Mind you, neither is great but here are the facts.
For 2010 IP Mitre 54, Nova 42; Games Mitre 27, Nova 10; ERA Mitre 3.33 (Team rank 8) Nova 4.5 (14); WHIP Mitre 1.09 (3) Nova 1.45 (14); SLG Mitre.378 (11) Nova .390 (14); OBA Mitre .288 (4) Nova .339 (13).
Mitre will turn 30 2/16. He missed all of 2008 and had Tommy John on July 15, 2008. He pitched pretty poorly in 2009, but he was still in the recovery process from surgery. There is reason to hope we might get something approaching a decent starter from him.
Ivan Nova ps exactly 3 years younger than Jscape, born 1/12/1987. So, at 23 he is a prospect and can develop with minor league time. He showed us in 2010 what he showed the Padres in 2009, He's not quite major league ready. It is my feeling he should start 2011 in AAA and try to earn a call up. I am afraid we will damage his prospects by rushing him. He did not have major league command last year, EVEN THOUGH HE LOOKED LIKE HE HAD BIG LEAGUE STUFF. In AAA Mitre needs to improve his 3 W / 9 innings and his 1.26 WHIP.
I hope we will have 2 pitchers who will beat him out in Spring Training. I expect Mitre to be one of them.
56 comments
|
0 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
I would have raised the exact same points that you just did to make the opposite argument-
Nova will likely improve and Mitre almost certainly will not. If Nova turns out to be the Yankees 5th best starter, they may not have the luxury of sending him to AAA.
by designatedquitter on Jan 13, 2011 10:17 AM EST reply actions
But Nova 'needs' to improve, Mitre does not. Big difference.
Mitre just needs to throw more innnings while maintaining something close to the 3.33ERA/1.09WHIP/.223BAA he put up last year. I’ll take that line all day long.
While I would agree that it’s not unreasonable to think Nova will improve, I’d be careful to say it’s ‘likely’ and I’d like to know how you know Mitre almost certainly will not. Why? Because you don’t like his looks?
by Peter Lacock on Jan 13, 2011 1:53 PM EST up reply actions
If you think Sergio Mitre could manage those numbers as a starter...
I have a bridge you might he interested in.
You’re going to put a high value on the 54 innings he pitched in 2010 (almost all of which were out of the bullpen) and ignore the 362 disastrous major league innings he pitched before that?
by Let's Talk About Tex Baby on Jan 13, 2011 2:16 PM EST up reply actions
I can see him do a 4 ERA and 100 innings
That’s not disastrous, it’s not terrible, it doesn’t stink, or any other adjective the radical extremists want to throw around.
Lets talk about how bad Tex was last year. He and Mitre are the same age. Think Tex will improve?
by Peter Lacock on Jan 13, 2011 2:30 PM EST up reply actions
The difference is Tex has a track record of being an elite major league caliber hitter, Mitre has a track record of being a replacement level pitcher.
that
and the fact that Tex still managed to hit over 30 HR and drive in 100 runs while playing the best defense of any first baseman in the league. Comparing an All-Star caliber player to Sergio Mitre is ridiculous. Teixeira’s “bad” years are still among the league’s best at his position, while Mitre has never had a good season as a starter and has ranged everywhere from below average to atrocious in his career.
"I'll do whatever it takes to win games, whether it's sitting on a bench waving a towel, handing a cup of water to a teammate, or hitting the game-winning shot."- Kobe Bryant
Please come back Andy!
Is Mitre your cousin or something?
That’s really the only explanation for any argument that a 30 year old with an ERA+ of 83 would suddenly become a better than league average starter.
by Let's Talk About Tex Baby on Jan 13, 2011 8:13 PM EST up reply actions
That is not what I said
I’d sign up for anything near league average as forth starter. I never projected jim for better than average.
"I’m never really surprised, but I am thrilled sometimes." Joe G. 2010
by Cbeck3 on Jan 13, 2011 8:16 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Thank you for saving me the trouble. Not only did he throw 54 innings, but they were mop-up innings at that.
by designatedquitter on Jan 13, 2011 2:30 PM EST up reply actions
I had the pleasure of seeing Mitre pitch batting practice to the Royals this summer in person.
Not something I ever want to see again. We need someone who can pitch meaningless innings, and he’s that guy.
I’d rather give a kid a shot and have them get experience and improve than watch Mitre every 5 days while covering my eyes and hoping it’s not a disaster.
People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring.
by WhatwouldJeterdo on Jan 13, 2011 2:42 PM EST up reply actions
I had the pleasure of watching him throw away Game 4 of last years ALCS
The Yankees likely would have lost anyways, but him giving up 3 runs in the last inning took away any chance the Yanks had at coming back.
"I'll do whatever it takes to win games, whether it's sitting on a bench waving a towel, handing a cup of water to a teammate, or hitting the game-winning shot."- Kobe Bryant
Please come back Andy!
Yes, but what he did, he did well
I can’t eliminate him from the competition without giving him a chance to compete. He can do it. He’s earned a chance, I trust Girardi and I trust the Yankees org.
I also like David Phelps very much and Noesi a little less, but I expect them to start in AAA. If Mitre & Nove can hold the fort until reinforcements come, it will have to work. There are no FA solutions, there are no obvious trade solutions at this time. I’m not going to wallow in it and complain about the guys that are here. They have to step up and they can.
by Peter Lacock on Jan 13, 2011 2:48 PM EST up reply actions
Mitre has ...
pretty much shown us the kind of pitcher he is. He’s not going to wake up in 2011 or 2012 and suddenly, meteorically raise like a phoenix to superstardom. At best he’s an innings eating .500 pitcher who on most staffs would be the #5 or spot starter/long reliever.
Nova on the other hand is hopefully improving after dipping his toe in the MLB waters. Just a kid, he wasn’t terrible and he wasn’t great — to me that’s a big plus. The times I watched him pitch, he seemed confident, poised and under control. He tended to lose his edge the second time through the lineup. Again, an encouraging sign that tells me he must learn to adjust. The fact that he was getting though unscathed the first go through is impressive considering some of the teams he faced.
Nova and the other kids should be given every opportunity to impress, and evolve. Mitre on the other hand already showed us what he is all about.
"Baseball is the background music of my life." -George Will
you forgot to mention
that Nova is one of only a few pitchers in the Yankees’ system that has been ramped up to close to 150 innings. You also forgot to mention that Nova had a very small sample size to work with for those numbers, whereas Mitre had a whole season.
And when did Nova pitch against or for the Padres in 2009? If you’re referring to the drafting and returning by the Padres, he never even pitched a game in between (at least not in minor league ball). So, where you’re pulling some of this information from, I don’t know.
Lastly, it’s hard to take any of those numbers seriously when they were both used to start and relieve in games. Nova started 7 of those 10 games he appeared in. Mitre only started 3 and relieved in the rest (24).
Add to that the fact that since Mitre’s surgery in 2008, he hasn’t pitched more than 60 innings. Nova, on the other hand, has just completed his 3rd season of pitching more than 130 innings.
I think Nova is the better conditioned option, even if he’s just a filler in the #5 spot until the trade deadline.
The Padres took Nova as a rule 5
They had to keep him in the bigs or return him. In spring training he failed to make the team. And he was returned.
I do not know what your objection is.
"I’m never really surprised, but I am thrilled sometimes." Joe G. 2010
by Cbeck3 on Jan 13, 2011 10:45 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
My objection is
in case you haven’t noticed, the Padres have a loaded staff of young pitchers. Nova probably wasn’t better than any of them at the time, and since they had no room for him on the Major League Roster (mind you, this was in spring 2009, almost 2 years ago), they had to release him back to the Yankees (or however that rule 5 thing works).
The point is, the Padres not keeping a rule 5 draft pick for more than spring training, given what their system had available (and up and coming to the ML roster in 2010), it’s not a good reason to say why Nova isn’t better than Mitre.
If Nova isnt better than Wade LeBlanc, we are in big trouble
Should you choose to test my resolve in this matter, you will be facing a finality beyond your comprehension, and you will not be counting days, or months, or years, but milleniums in a place with no doors.
I know what I saw.....
You can take all those statistics and put them where the sun don’t shine (LOL) because one (Mitre) stinks and the other (Nova) has great potential. Nova’s a perfect candidate to get us to the trade deadline, when we can pick up a veteran that is not presently available. We can’t realistically expect Nova or any of o0ur rookies to make it through a full season.
3.33ERA/1.09WHIP/.223BAA does not stink
by Peter Lacock on Jan 13, 2011 1:57 PM EST up reply actions
He was pitching mop up innings for the most part.
Not exactly starting on the mound at Fenway. When he did start, it wasn’t pretty.
People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring.
by WhatwouldJeterdo on Jan 13, 2011 2:11 PM EST up reply actions
For a guy pitching when we are down a lot or up a lot, sure, that's fine.
But I don’t want him anywhere near the starting rotation.
People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring.
by WhatwouldJeterdo on Jan 13, 2011 2:25 PM EST up reply actions
I see a guy that has been improving each of the last 2 seasons
I trust that there will be a competition in the spring and the best man will win the job. I’m not pre-judging anyone.
by Peter Lacock on Jan 13, 2011 2:34 PM EST up reply actions
I agree the numbers
say Mitre is the better option, but from watching the games it’s easy to see he wasn’t good as a starter. I don’t know the breakdown between his numbers as a starter and as a reliever, but from what I remember most (if not all) of his good outings were as a reliever, which would make him look the better option on paper.
I think Mitre is good to have in the pen. He’s the perfect long relief option; He can make a spot start when needed; And he’s good for mop up duty. I don’t have a problem if the Yankees let him try to win a spot in the rotation, but I do think they’d be making a mistake by taking him out of the pen for the reasons I mentioned.
There's always next year
That's true but he wasn't coming into spring training prepared to start
It might not matter but now that he’s fully recovered from major elbow surgery and preparing to be stronger and ready to start, he might be able to approach his RP performance as a SP.
It’s hard to make a judgement from the recent stats because it’s an evolution and he may very well keep evolving in the right direction.
by Peter Lacock on Jan 13, 2011 2:04 PM EST up reply actions
Sergio Mitre is terrible
As shocking as it is to me that the Yankees still insist on keeping him on their roster, it’s even more shocking that there are fans out there who aren’t frustrated by this and who actually want him >shudder< in the rotation.
Sergio Mitre is not a prospect. Before joining the Yankees he pitched 310 innings in the NL…badly. He had a 5.36 ERA and a 1.54 WHIP. In 2009, while Mitre was inexplicably starting games for the Yankees while Phil Hughes was wasted in the bullpen, he compiled a 6.79 ERA, a 1.62 WHIP and an ERA+ of 68. These are the type of numbers that suggest you should be seeking another profession. Instead, Mitre was brought back in 2010. While he did pitch well in blowouts out of the pen last year, his 3 starts were typically difficult to watch.
I’m not one of those who thinks that Ivan Nova and David Phelps are likely to be above average major league pitchers next year, but they’d have to be pretty horrible to be worse than Mitre and they do have the potential to be at least a little better.
by Let's Talk About Tex Baby on Jan 13, 2011 12:12 PM EST reply actions
3.33ERA/1.09WHIP/.223BAA is not terrible
You’re leaving out that he was young when he pitched in the NL. He’s still young.
You’re leaving out that he was rehabbing in 2009.
You’re leaving out that while Mitre was rehabbing and Hughes ‘was wasted in the bullpen’ in 2009, the Yankees won the World Series. I’ll take that ‘waste’ every year.
Look, there will be a competition, the Yanks might bring in another vet to add to the current candidates, Mitre very possibly will end up in the pen, but if he doesn’t, that’s no reason to give up and just complain about it. That does no good for anyone.
by Peter Lacock on Jan 13, 2011 2:14 PM EST up reply actions
What does MLB in general think of Mitre? Enough to let the Yankees sign him for $750,000.
That’s probably less than their catering budget. Brian Cashman saying he’s the #5 starter is strictly smoke being blown into orifices. (Similar to him saying Nick Swisher is our new 1st baseman- true only if every other option fails).
I can’t believe the Mitre at #5 option is even being discussed.
by designatedquitter on Jan 13, 2011 1:10 PM EST reply actions
A 3.33 ERA is meaningless when supported by much worse peripherals (4.69 FIP, 4.83 K/9, .226 BABIP against (.320 career), and a grand total of 0.1 high leverage innings pitched).
Sergio Mitre has never been and will never be a viable option for the starting rotation. Putting the blinders on to his entire career and only focusing on him lucking his way to a 3.33 ERA in mop up duty is not a recipe for success.
You're also putting the blinders on his age and injury
Most of those stats are from when he was very young. The Marlins & Girardi saw talent there even though the stats didn’t back it up. All those stats should be ignored because of his age. In 2009 he was rehabbing, again should be ignored. All that really points to his true self going forward is what he did last year. There is evidence that he can do some good. I’m not predicting he will, just that he’s about as good an option as there is right now. Deal with it.
by Peter Lacock on Jan 13, 2011 2:56 PM EST up reply actions
Mitre is NOT a good option by any stretch
he pitched 54 innings last year in mop up work. Pitching 3 innings of relief in a game thats all but over is far different than being in the starting rotation every game. Mitre doesn’t have great location and doesn’t have the velocity or the stuff to get away with it (like Burnett does).
I’m one of the most optimistic people on here, but I think you are being over-optimistic about Mitre. He blows, and he’ll never be a viable option for the starting rotation. There is far more evidence in how he pitched when he started games in 2009 and 2010 and how he pitched in the playoffs (where every inning is meaningful) last season. He’s atrocious and shouldn’t ever be starting a game that isn’t an emergency start.
"I'll do whatever it takes to win games, whether it's sitting on a bench waving a towel, handing a cup of water to a teammate, or hitting the game-winning shot."- Kobe Bryant
Please come back Andy!
So Mitre sucked..
…his whole career because he was young? Last I checked Nova is young and he didn’t “suck” last season, so why is Mitre a better option?
Actually, Nova did suck
wishful thinking is making you forgive his suckiness and hope on his promise. That is the real point of this post. Mitre pitched better than Nova last year, His fans just wish it wasn’t so.
"I’m never really surprised, but I am thrilled sometimes." Joe G. 2010
Nova briefly started, Mitre pitched mop up innings.
It’s not even close to the same thing.
People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring.
by WhatwouldJeterdo on Jan 17, 2011 3:17 PM EST up reply actions
No he isn't
Mitre blows. He’s sucked his entire career, and his numbers last year out of the bullpen pitching mop up duty is not a good indicator of how he’ll pitch in the starting rotation every five days. Nova has much better stuff, is younger and has far more upside. Mitre is bad and has no future at all with the Yankees- it makes no sense to give him any sort of role where he might make a huge difference.
"I'll do whatever it takes to win games, whether it's sitting on a bench waving a towel, handing a cup of water to a teammate, or hitting the game-winning shot."- Kobe Bryant
Please come back Andy!
He wouldn't be on the Yankees if he was..
There are worse my friend. A 4.69 FIP is certainly acceptable for mop up duty. Plus he throws groundballs, which is a plus in Yankee Stadium.
Section 203 Row 15 Seat 1
If Nova can extend his dominance past the fourth inning, we might have a quality starter. I was impressed by what I saw in those innings. Command, movement, velocity, decption with his change, a tighter curve than what we have seen, etc…..
I have faith in the kid.
Oh and he is already better than Mitre.
Section 203 Row 15 Seat 1
The one thing I took away from this is...
jscape is 26?
I think you mean you couldn't care less because if you could care less it means that you care a little bit.
Ah, I just realized your birthday just passed.
Happy Birthday!!!
Don't be ridiculous. "Surprise! Ice Cube To The Vagina" is clearly an album title.
-Ballymena Bob
Good to see Sergio getting some love
Last season, he had a BABIP of .226. There is no chance of him repeating that, but he doesn’t have do. What you want from a 4th stater is 6 inning starts and a 4.50 ERA, and he is eminently capable of that. Even if he delivers a 5.00 ERA, he might have an 11-11 season.
Nova
Nova has room to grow,,,,Mitre has room to get worse being he peaked already. I personally disagree. I say Nova is a better option right now with far more “upside potential”.
by archery john blaze on Jan 17, 2011 3:59 PM EST reply actions
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
Related FanPosts on Pinstripe Alley
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recommended FanPosts
Recent FanPosts
In Association With
Big League Stew - MLB - Yahoo! Sports
- Snoop Dogg delivers memorable first pitch at U.S. Cellular Field
- The Juice: Mesoraco’s grand slam helps Reds complete four-game sweep of Braves
- Please hold: Indians’ Joe Smith jumps the gun on relief appearance
- Local radio host honors Cubs’ Tony Campana with parody song
- Roy Halladay bobblehead with glove on wrong hand selling on MLB.com
