What To Do With The Yankees Lineup (The Derek Jeter Post)
by Brandon C. on Sep 9, 2010 10:00 AM EDT
in New York Yankees Analysis
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PrintBefore I start this post, I'd like to point out to those of you (if any) that noticed there was no poll for the roster last night that I am in Pennsylvania and will likely not be able to comment on or edit any posts. I wrote this post and the next beforehand.
This post is a compiled post of the great writers of Pinstripe Alley! I asked the other writers to give me their lineups and reasoning behind the lineups. Enjoy!
Brandon C.:
Vs. RHP
1. Brett Gardner LF
2. Nick Swisher RF
3. Mark Teixeira 1B
4. Alex Rodriguez 3B
5. Robinson Cano 2B
6. Jorge Posada C
7. Derek Jeter SS
8. Lance Berkman DH
9. Curtis Granderson CF
The reasoning behind this lineup is simple. Brett Gardner should be the Yankees lead off hitter for the rest of the season regardless of matchup. He has every quality a lead off hitter should have and more. Nick Swisher is my preference at the two spot. Teixeira-Rodriguez-Cano is obvious. Posada sixth, then Jeter seventh. Wait, Jeter seventh?
Take a look at these splits, that haven't been referenced to much in arguments about Jeters struggles.
Jeter vs. lefties: .315/.377/.495
Jeter vs. righties: .239/.308/.314
If I was Joe Girardi I would walk up to Jeter and say "listen Derek, I know you've been a one or two hitter your whole career, but Gardner and Swisher are really hitting the ball well, etc. You aren't, etc. You're the captain of the team and I am asking for your approval before I make my decision." Does anyone think Jeter would say no? At least this way Jeter gets a sort of say in the decision.
Finally, the line-up rounds off with Berkman and Granderson.
Vs. LHP
1. Gardner LF
2. Jeter SS
3. Teixeira 1B
4. Rodriguez 3B
5. Cano 2B
6. Swisher RF
7. Posada C
8. Thames DH
9. Granderson CF
Granderson has been improving against lefties and Jeter, as I said before, is actually hitting lefties well.
On to the rest after the jump.
Kuri:
Versus a righty starting pitcher
1 - Brett Gardner - LF
2 - Derek Jeter - SS
3 - Mark Teixeira - 1B
4 - A-Rod - 3B
5 - Robinson Cano- 2B
6 - Nick Swisher - RF
7 - Jorge Posada - C
8 - Lance Berkman - DH
9 - Curtis Granderson - CF
No big surprises here. I'm trying to take the bigger picture view here - in other words, playing the odds that, on some fundamental level, Marcus Thames probably isn't really this good, nor is Lance Berkman really this bad. Berkman kills righties - a career .307/.422/.590 line - while Thames only has a career .296 OBP against them.
Versus a lefty starting pitcher
1 - Brett Gardner - CF
2 - Derek Jeter - SS
3 - Mark Teixeira - 1B
4 - A-Rod - 3B
5 - Robinson Cano - 2B
6 - Nick Swisher - RF
7 - Jorge Posada - C
8 - Marcus Thames - DH
9 - Austin Kearns- LF
The only difference here is that I'm never, ever, EVER, letting Curtis Granderson face a lefty - he hits .216/.274/.348 against them for his career, which is basically like having Ramiro Pena in the lineup. I'll also take advantage of Marcus Thames superior numbers against lefties and put him in the DH spot.
At this point, Eduardo Nunez is my backup middle infielder and I would have already DFA'd Ramiro Pena. For backup catcher, it's the lesser of two evils between Francisco Cervelli and Chad Moeller.
Jscape:
RHP- Gardner, Berkman, Swisher, Cano, Arod, Tex, Posada, Jeter, Granderson
LHP- Gardner, Kearns, Cano, Tex, Thames, Swisher, Arod, Posada, Jeter
The first thing I'm looking for is handedness: balance in the lineup and splits. I don't want my ideal lineup vulnerable to a lefty or righty specialist. And the bench is a real strength headed into the post season, so I'm not afraid to pinch hit for a better matchup.
Next, I care about OBP. Do you realize that Arod is hitting .202/.293/.371 against lefties this season? His hip is a mess, and he can't pivot on the inside fastball. How about that Tex is nearly OPSing 1.000 against LHP?
The final thing I want is speed at the top of my lineup (see Gardner, Gritty & Gutty) and decent speed rounding out the 9 spot.
Of course, this is all a moot point because I want to play the hot hand in the postseason. If Jeter hits .350 for the last couple weeks of the season, I'll put him back at leadoff. If Swisher looks lost at the plate, he'll bat 8.
Duggan:
Brett Gardner - LF
Derek Jeter - SS
Mark Teixeira - 1B
Alex Rodriguez - 3B
Robinson Cano - 2B
Nick Swisher - RF
Marcus Thames - DH
Jorge Posada - C
Curtis Granderson - CF
This would be my "A" lineup, but I'd want to give Lance Berkman and Francisco Cervelli around two starts a week (with Berkman also being used as a the first pinch hitter). With Berkman in the game (most likely with a right handed starter) he would just take the place of Thames and bat 7th. Cervelli, or any other bench player in to give someone a day off, would bat 9th. Keeping Jeter in the #2 spot puts a bit of a monkey wrench in the system, but I know Girardi isn't going to create the mess of "demoting" him, so batting him 8th or 9th just seemed like idle speculation. If not for The Legend of Derek Jeter, I would bat him 9th, I would move Swisher to 2nd, Thames to 6th, Posada to 7th, and Granderson to 8th.
Travis:
Vs. RHP:
Gardner, LF
Swisher, RF
Cano, 2B
Tex, 1B
Arod, 3B
Posada, C
Berkman, DH
Granderson, CF
Jeter, SS
Vs. LHP:
Gardner, CF
Swisher, RF
Tex, 1B
Arod, 3B
Cano, 2B
Thames, DH
Posada, C
Kearns, LF
Jeter, SS
You'll notice the main theme: Derek Jeter at the bottom of the order. Why is Joe Girardi willing to move a struggling starter like Javy Vazquez (who's established himself as a fine pitcher over 13 seasons) to the bullpen but keeps insisting on having Jeter near the top of the lineup?
Sorry to say it but Derek is the worst everyday hitter on the team. He does have a commanding lead in one major league category though: outs made, with 451, about 20 ahead of the next worst hitter. His OPS is .697. Know who else's OPS is around .697? Randy Winn, Melky Cabrera and Cliff Pennington. (FYI, Winn has batted mostly eighth (with the pitcher last of course, being in the NL), same for Melky, while Pennington has batted mostly ninth. I don't think there's a better example than this.) At least those hitters have played the majority of their games in pitcher-friendly parks, unlike Jeter. Would you ever consider batting one of them near the top of a lineup, never mind the MFY's lineup?! I think not, and neither do their managers.
Elsewhere, Gardner at the top is a no-brainer. He leads the team in OBP, steals and pitcher-per-PA, probably the three most important traits in a leadoff hitter. 3-5 aren't too surprising, save for moving Cano between third and fifth depending on the starter. Cano is having the best season of any Yankee and has proven he can handle a run-producing role.
I hope Girardi realizes Derek should not be near the top of the lineup. His out-making ability is second to none this year - he should be at the bottom of the order where his sub-.700 OPS won't hurt the team so much. I love DJ as much as the next Yankee fan, but you can't run a team based on emotions or nostalgia. Derek's ego might take a hit, but if he is truly The Captain and team leader we think of him as, he should do what's best for the team and not make a fuss if/when he's dropped in the lineup. Hopefully Girardi has the balls to do so.
Thoughts?
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SMH
LHP- Gardner, Kearns, Cano, Tex, Thames, Swisher, Arod, Posada, Jeter
wow, i guess the suggestions of the “smart people” to put Tex near the bottom of the lineup when he was having his slump was really a gem.
Tex techinically only had 1 off month
Looking at his splits he was just really bad in April…and picked up after. Plus he is a proven slow starter. Looking at jeter’s numbers he has been the same since may. With Tex it was more of a wait, while jeter has just steadily declined.
by lololol on Sep 9, 2010 10:40 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
but really
I see this as typical stereotype Yankee fan shortsightedness / armchair managing. sure, Jeter is playing average right now, but can somebody see what the long-term ramification is of putting him at #9? it’s like treating a baseball lineup as if it is a video game, not a lineup of actual people.
OK....I'll bite
What’s the long-term ramification of putting him at #9?
"I am a man of great mental power." ~Alfonso Soriano
by Captain_Mick on Sep 9, 2010 12:42 PM EDT up reply actions
Nevermind
Reading below
"I am a man of great mental power." ~Alfonso Soriano
by Captain_Mick on Sep 9, 2010 12:44 PM EDT up reply actions
Regarding Granderson
His recent numbers vs LHP are screaming SSS. He’s never gonna hit .350 against them. However, let’s not write off his improvement as a complete fluke just yet…obviously if he goes on to hit .100 against them for the rest of his career we can say it was a complete fluke but we gotta let him get a few more AB’s first.
Grandy’s value as an everyday player is FAR higher than his value in a platoon. If he struggles against lefties like he was last year for the rest of his career then we don’t have much of a choice, but since he has shown a sign of turning it around we gotta give him a chance to prove that it’s a real improvement.
Hello everyone, my name is Curtis Granderson, and I'm a bus-o-holic
A supporter of the MFY.
When Shall we give him time to prove this?
Beginning of next year or RIght now, in a pennent race/Playoffs?
Statistics are like a girl in a bikini. They show a lot, but not everything.
That's all an illusion
"Winning is the most important thing in my life, after breathing. Breathing first, winning next." -George Michael Steinbrenner III
by Chris McKeown on Sep 9, 2010 11:33 AM EDT up reply actions
we're actually in 31st place
Hello everyone, my name is Curtis Granderson, and I'm a bus-o-holic
A supporter of the MFY.
he's not struggling right now is he?
Start him vs. LHP (which is what Girardi has been doing anyways). If it’s bottom of the 9th in a game vs a LHP with the tying run in scoring posistion then go ahead and pinch-hit him if you want but don’t completely bench him vs lefties.
Hello everyone, my name is Curtis Granderson, and I'm a bus-o-holic
A supporter of the MFY.
For lefties Girardi has been rotating between Grandy and Gardy in CF
i like the decision. But i also would liek to see grandy in the 2nd hole once in a while and see how he does since he;s been a lead off hitter his whole career. Plus having Tex as protection seems a lot better than having the great Ramiro Pena as protection.
+1, Grandy hasn't been seeing many good pitches with protection like Pena and Cervelli behind him
Hello everyone, my name is Curtis Granderson, and I'm a bus-o-holic
A supporter of the MFY.
So, if the AT BAT Outcome...
Does not matter compared to “Clutch situations”… Kind of like yesterday, when Joe G pinch hit Thames for him. ok.
Statistics are like a girl in a bikini. They show a lot, but not everything.
Jeter's Place in History...errr the Batting Order.
I agree with the Theme in all of these lineups, Something should be done with Jeter, sooner than later… we need to have our playoff lineup set soon, so it can have a chance to find its identity.
and Swisher is an awesome #2 Hitter.
Statistics are like a girl in a bikini. They show a lot, but not everything.
It seemed earlier in the year when Brett was batting 2nd he was less productive then when he was at the bot of the order. Lately he seems fine at the top of the order. Does anyone know what his average is in the line up batting 2nd V 8th or 9th? Or even where I would go to find out for myself?
"Sorry bro, he Jason Bourned me"- Drama
per Yahoo! Sports:
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/8289/situational;_ylt=AgfdJWGqKv2qbeeRE9SB5wiFCLcF
Batting 1st: 20 games, 74 AB- .324/.440/.419
Batting 2nd: 19 games, 76 AB- .263/.317/.355
Batting 8th: 25 games, 83 AB- .325/.434/.446
Batting 9th: 53 games, 162 AB- .241/.351/.340
I'd say leadoff is the correct position for the man
"Winning is the most important thing in my life, after breathing. Breathing first, winning next." -George Michael Steinbrenner III
by Chris McKeown on Sep 9, 2010 12:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Cliff Pennington lol
It’s pretty incredible to think that Derek Jeter is the worst hitter in the Yankees’ lineup. Sign me up for that team.
"Winning is the most important thing in my life, after breathing. Breathing first, winning next." -George Michael Steinbrenner III
drop jeter in the lineup
I would drop jeter in the lineup too… we have numerous guys that can hit in the 1 and 2 hole. Put Jeter in the 9 slot. Thats a pretty nasty way to end a lineup. Everybody knows that once the playoffs start the regular season numbers go out the window. He would be better suited there anyway. Its a younger more aggressive lineup and gardner is the best choice for a lead-off hitter.
Jeter has earned the right to finish this season, one which the Yankees have made the postseason, batting second. Take into consideration that he has made a career of flourishing in the postseason and he gets a pass this season. He is a great Yankee and the Yankees are on their way towards 100 wins with him at 1-2 for the year.
Can anybody see the ramifications of suddenly putting the face of the franchise, a loyal player, to the bottom of the lineup? Really, did anybody even study any management, psychology or behavioral science here? Or did everybody “learned” to manage using fantasy lineups?
the idea of moving jeter down is not forcing him to, but rather ask him if he feels if it's alright
yes he’s the face of the franchise but he’s also struggling bad while everyone else in th elineup has been better. It’s not a question of Jeter’s ego we’re asking here since we already know we’re never going to bat jeter 9th, but rather a question of optimization. Like how should th eline up look that best suits the team now if we were allowed to move jeter around…not WE HAVE TO MOVE JETAH TO 9TH HOLEZ OR WE TEH LOZE
Agreed
This is not a Jeter to teh 9! situation.
This is saying, “Derek, you’ve always been a team first player and that’s what I need you to be right now. This is the lineup I’m going to post this afternoon. I’m sure we’re both going to get a thousand questions about it. Get ready for them. Feel free to say ’it’s Joe’s decision and you’ll have to ask him.’ I’ll take the heat because it’s what’s best for the team right now.”
"Have faith in the Yankees, my son. Think of the great DiMaggio."
+1
"Winning is the most important thing in my life, after breathing. Breathing first, winning next." -George Michael Steinbrenner III
by Chris McKeown on Sep 9, 2010 12:04 PM EDT up reply actions
so it’s that easy? that’s how it really works? so Phil Jackson can actually tell Jordan “I will bench you right now for an extended period because your field goal percentage is horrendous.”
Too bad your reference to Michael Jordan makes no sense
Never was it said that Jeter will be benched…
"Winning is the most important thing in my life, after breathing. Breathing first, winning next." -George Michael Steinbrenner III
by Chris McKeown on Sep 9, 2010 1:22 PM EDT up reply actions
It’s only as hard as Joe Girardi and Derek Jeter make it. If they’re on the same page- if they’re both team players who want the Yankees best shot at a ring- then this tempest in a tea cup is comical.
"Have faith in the Yankees, my son. Think of the great DiMaggio."
Not a good comparison. Jeter was never as good as Jordan, and Jordan never had a year as poor as Jeter is having now.
Except for when Jordan played baseball, of course
"I am a man of great mental power." ~Alfonso Soriano
At some point, results matter more than feelings
Jeter’s BA is down to .262. It’s no fluke, at least not this season (maybe this is a 2008 situation and he’s been hurt).
How much worse is he going to do in the 9-hole because he “doesn’t like it there”? All this means is he’s getting one less PA per game, and after the 1st inning batting order is out the window.
There is a big contradiction here. People always call Jeter the ultimate team player. But if he were, he would graciously accept that it’s time for him to sacrifice ego for the good of the team.
human psychology?
This is Derek Jeter, not a 5 year old. He’s not gonna be devastated by being moved down in the order. He’ll accept it, maybe a little grudingly, and have to swallow his pride and know that if he turns it around he’ll be back at the top of the lineup.
Hello everyone, my name is Curtis Granderson, and I'm a bus-o-holic
A supporter of the MFY.
What makes you so sure about that? Do you have any empirical basis for saying that that would be his reaction?
Because a lot of research has been done on actual and “perceived” demotion and these moves (drastic if it is from 1 to 9 as most of you propose) has been scientifically shown to more likely than not lead to lower well-being, lack of self confidence and identity crisis. Some of you may say that Jeter is a grown-up and he can handle things like that but nobody among us have any empirical proof that he can handle such treatment.
However, we do have some tangible proofs in baseball of demotion actually messing people’s heads. Joba is one. Is Jeter stronger than Joba emotionally and mentally? Maybe. But can Jeter handle a demotion that can be perceived as drastic and maybe even insulting of going down as far as #9 in the lineup?
These ball players are human beings. They are not objects.
another thing. demoting from 1 to 9 can even lead Jeter to perceive the act, wrongfully or rightfully, as a public shaming of sorts. On a contract year, nonetheless. I haven’t read of a ballplayer that has gone from leadoff position to #9 in a heartbeat but if there is indeed one, what would be its effect on the player’s perceived value? what would be its effect on his bargaining position for future contracts? wouldn’t a drastic demotion be perceived, rightfully or wrongfully, as an organization bungling or even sabotaging one’s chances for negotiating a good contract?
you can not be serious
we are tlaking about hypothetical here….no one is actually going to demote derek. and you want to know a ball player who went from first to lower? we have 2 on our team Gardner sometimes leads off sometimes bats 9th. Grandy has been a lead off hitter his whole Career and is now batting 8th. So don;t give that it’ never beeen done before bullshit or a hit to their value. right now jeter is at 1.7 WAR which is the lowest for a starter on our team. Demotions don;t mean shit, look at cliff lee and Roy halladay both of them got demoted to minor league ball when they sucked, thats worse than a simple demotion in the line up. Hwo did they respond? Roy halladay revamped his mechanics and became more dominant than ever. Cliff Lee just 4 years ago got demoted and since then has been one of the top pitchers in the league. Demotion does just mean a player will go into a depression all of the sudden, rather it could fire them up to preform better.
but you have to contextualize. One, for all these guys you mentioned, the “demotions” happened when they are not yet “star players”. Halladay and Lee’s happened before they were considered great. Granderson is in the context of being the new kid in the block with a star-studded lineup.
Second, is Gardner’s moving from 1st to 8th to 9th to 2nd in the same context as dropping Jeter from 1st to 9th? No, because Gardner’s moving is in the context of finding the right place for him in the lineup. The proposed move for Jeter is in effect a demotion, because it is related to his “bad performance”.
cliff lee was 28 when he got demoted
he already had a good year in 2005 and 2006 then a terrible year in 2007 which prompted the indians to demote him. Halladay’s demotion came when he was young BUT the demotion helped him to become great if you read what they did to him. Look Jeter is getting older and it’s not like his bad preformance is a one month thing. since may he has batted .245 or lower EVERY month. That’s not like Jeter, but more like Ramiro Pena. Plus every suggestion people have made comes in the context that jeter would have to agree to be moved first. Which means it wouldn’t affect him as much as say Torre batting Arod in the lower half the lineup in the play offs with out asking him.
no one is petitioning anything...
we are just discussing where jeter should be batting due to his off season. No one here will text girardi and tell him to bat jeter ninth or have the power or influence to do so
again, we must be careful
we cannot allow enemy combatants know our thoughts. These negotiations between Israel and Palestine are very delicate and could be disrupted by any discussion of Derek Jeter’s demotion.
Boone Logan signed a baseball for me.
we're not the first ones to ask the question
other people have brought it up before. A reporter actually asked girardi is jeter’s name was joe smith, would he be batting in the top of the line up a long while ago.
shhh DON'T SPEAK LIKE THAT
you have NO IDEA WHO’S READING THIS
Boone Logan signed a baseball for me.
Just grabbing players who come to mind in particular years, nothing scientific about it:
O’Neil 2001: 2, 3, 6, 7, 8, 9
Bernie 2003: 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 9
Boggs 1996: 1, 2, 8, 9
Matsui 2005: 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 9
I think part of the problem in the sports media/ pop psychology department is that this is not a ‘demotion.’ Nothing is permanent and giving the lineup a different look today doesn’t mandate the same version tomorrow.
"Have faith in the Yankees, my son. Think of the great DiMaggio."
yeah, but you guys are proposing it in the context of Jeter being the worst everyday player of the Yankees. so it is in the context of a demotion.
That feels semantic to me, and I think you’re twisting my intent in the post a little.
As I said, I want to play the hot hand. That’s not Jeter right now. I’d also not lock in Tex and Arod for 3-4. Put the most effective lineup out there every day.
"Have faith in the Yankees, my son. Think of the great DiMaggio."
How can that be semantics? Aren’t people here proposing to go to #9 because of his bad statistics? If that is not in the context of a demotion, then in what context is it?
I also believe that we should put out the most effective lineup everyday. However, as I said before, this is not a video game where you can just move players around.
Except in the theoritical world, we can move people around
but’s not going to happen in real life. We are talking about this like it was a Video game because it’s never going to happen which allows us to make suggestions on where we think jeter should land.. Also in a video game jeter’s stats would be better and be hitting .300+ with a .400+ OBP
But is the post written as if it just a theoretical musing? What is the context of this part?
“I hope Girardi realizes Derek should not be near the top of the lineup. His out-making ability is second to none this year – he should be at the bottom of the order where his sub-.700 OPS won’t hurt the team so much. I love DJ as much as the next Yankee fan, but you can’t run a team based on emotions or nostalgia. Derek’s ego might take a hit, but if he is truly The Captain and team leader we think of him as, he should do what’s best for the team and not make a fuss if/when he’s dropped in the lineup. Hopefully Girardi has the balls to do so.”
Doesn’t sound like a theoretical musing to me.
Of course it's theoretical musing, Travis can't make Jeter bat 9th (or can he?), that's just what he would do
Hello everyone, my name is Curtis Granderson, and I'm a bus-o-holic
A supporter of the MFY.
oh, I can
but i’m choosing not to. you dont know the limits of my powers. when Cervelli stopped hitting, where do you think his powers went?
well if you really took Cervelli's power you might want to give it back
he still hasn’t homered!
Hello everyone, my name is Curtis Granderson, and I'm a bus-o-holic
A supporter of the MFY.
ninth
is where DJ should be hitting. don’t give me the ‘ego hit’ argument. DJ is supposedly a team-first player. the team is better with him at the bottom of the lineup. what about his .697 OPS says that’s not the case
what are these mental ramifications you speak of? could a move down really make him hit any worse? 2010 is already his worst year ever.
he’s making over $20 million this season! pay me the ML minimum and i’ll play any position and hit anywhere in the lineup.
I don't think any of us is in a good position to judge Jeter's mental state, emotional strength, etc
But seriously, what do you expect to happen if Jeter is asked to move down to #9? Specifically, what are the tangible ramifications?
"I am a man of great mental power." ~Alfonso Soriano
by Captain_Mick on Sep 9, 2010 12:51 PM EDT up reply actions
He’s never been asked. Or if he has, it was so super secretly that we’ve never heard about it.
He’s certainly not complained about bouncing between 1-2 all season. As Torre used to say, 9th in the AL is second leadoff.
"Have faith in the Yankees, my son. Think of the great DiMaggio."
Projected 2011 lineup - FROM SECRET DOCUMENT FOUND IN STEINBRENNER HOUSEHOLD
1 – GGBG
2 – Swisher
3 – Tex
4 – Ardo
5 – Cano
6 – Posada
7 – Granderson
8 – Thames (assuming he resigns)
9 – Nunez
+1 for everyone! Except for Michael Kay, of course.
"Have faith in the Yankees, my son. Think of the great DiMaggio."
You know, sometimes I forget how much I dislike Joe Morgan because I don’t listen to him every day. But I adore Kay and Sterling by comparison.
"Have faith in the Yankees, my son. Think of the great DiMaggio."
Oh hey! Did you see you got COG on Tuesday?
"Have faith in the Yankees, my son. Think of the great DiMaggio."
I didn’t realize at the time that I was picking 2 first time COGers, but that’s how it shook out.
"Have faith in the Yankees, my son. Think of the great DiMaggio."
i see
1. Crawford LF
2. Swish DH
3. Tex 1B
4. Cano 2B
5. Arod 3B
6. Posada C
7. Granderson CF
8. Jeter SS
9. Gardner RF
by Soriano NY 12 on Sep 9, 2010 1:07 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't really want Crawford in pinstripes...we have 3 OF
Hello everyone, my name is Curtis Granderson, and I'm a bus-o-holic
A supporter of the MFY.
Gardner has a good arm in left, a decent arm for CF and a below average arm for RF. Even in a small RF like New Yankee Stadium or Camden Yard, he would be a weakness there.
"Have faith in the Yankees, my son. Think of the great DiMaggio."
Yeah well that's a joke
"Winning is the most important thing in my life, after breathing. Breathing first, winning next." -George Michael Steinbrenner III
by Chris McKeown on Sep 9, 2010 1:23 PM EDT up reply actions
you don't want to keep Jeter?
Hello everyone, my name is Curtis Granderson, and I'm a bus-o-holic
A supporter of the MFY.
I got no prob bumping Jeter down a little
but I think they should try nd pitch the proposal to him also. Ninth….ehhhh, too far down.
"That's what you're in business for. You try to make a success."
Quotation of George Steinbrenner
R.I.P Boss, you made Yankee fans proud.
exactly
dropping him to ninth is almost an insult.
and the worst thing is that this idea comes from a respected Yankees website. the post may be well-intentioned but what if some New York media person picks it up and blows this out of proportion? and what if some misguided Yankee fans actually take the suggestion seriously and start booing Jeter when he makes bad at bats and started calling for him publicly to go down to the #9?
what if?
Actually...
important diplomatic decision making has been said to have been impacted by postings at PA. We should all watch what we say for the sake of the world.
Boone Logan signed a baseball for me.
If that happens I better get a raise! Double my pay! (2x$0=x)
"Have faith in the Yankees, my son. Think of the great DiMaggio."
It is just not that serious.
This article won’t change what happens in the lineup.
by WhatwouldJeterdo on Sep 9, 2010 2:11 PM EDT up reply actions
unless Ed is actually Girardi in disguise...
Hello everyone, my name is Curtis Granderson, and I'm a bus-o-holic
A supporter of the MFY.
he has showed a lot of promise.
I wouldnt say no to it.
They didn't let me out, they just gave me a day pass.
A bit premature to start calling him a future star, don't you think?
"Winning is the most important thing in my life, after breathing. Breathing first, winning next." -George Michael Steinbrenner III
by Chris McKeown on Sep 9, 2010 1:23 PM EDT up reply actions
that's why i said potentially
it’s a musing about possibility, not certainty
Boone Logan signed a baseball for me.
Regardless... it's still way too early
Why are you worried about the possibility of Nunez becoming a future AS SS right now? I’m much more concerned with the starting pitching and their effectiveness right now… but I guess that’s just me.
"Winning is the most important thing in my life, after breathing. Breathing first, winning next." -George Michael Steinbrenner III
by Chris McKeown on Sep 9, 2010 1:27 PM EDT up reply actions
Did I say he was going to be an all-star?
I apologize to you and everyone for discussing the future. I promise to never look ahead ever again.
Boone Logan signed a baseball for me.
My apologies on misreading what you posted
I just don’t understand why you’re thinking about the future right now when there are bigger fish to fry than that.
"Winning is the most important thing in my life, after breathing. Breathing first, winning next." -George Michael Steinbrenner III
by Chris McKeown on Sep 9, 2010 1:30 PM EDT up reply actions
Jeter's future as the Yankees starting shortstop is a pretty big fish
Boone Logan signed a baseball for me.
Then to answer your question
No, I don’t see Nunez as the future of the Yankees at SS.
"Winning is the most important thing in my life, after breathing. Breathing first, winning next." -George Michael Steinbrenner III
by Chris McKeown on Sep 9, 2010 1:33 PM EDT up reply actions
He hasn't proven himself to be an every day MLB player
I’m not so sure I see the Yankees giving him a legitimate shot at SS next year. I don’t think they’re moving Jeter yet. We’ve seen how other backup players have panned out and they can perform every so often but not all the time at a consistent level. Personally, I don’t see it. Do you?
"Winning is the most important thing in my life, after breathing. Breathing first, winning next." -George Michael Steinbrenner III
by Chris McKeown on Sep 9, 2010 1:35 PM EDT up reply actions
Yankees mgmnt
probably wouldn’t want to put up with his antics
Boone Logan signed a baseball for me.
i wasn't serious lol, but i see nunez as a back up
and the yanks try to find a either a better SS prospect or sign a SS after jeter stops playing
or Ramiro Pena will go on a tear
and hit 45 hrs next year
(sarcasm alert)
Boone Logan signed a baseball for me.
I don't see them giving him a legitimate shot for at least 2 years
Jeter is going to start at short for at least 2 more seasons, as I see it. But during that time Nunez should get solid playing time as Ardo and Jeet will need more rest. His numbers at AAA this season were particularly impressive, so perhaps it’s a taste of things to come.
Boone Logan signed a baseball for me.
Nope. When Jeter moves off short, it will be for the real deal. Nunez is a good backup, but like Cervelli, I think he will wilt when overexposed.
"Have faith in the Yankees, my son. Think of the great DiMaggio."
I don't know...
take a look at their numbers in the minors comparatively. I don’t know if the comparison is valid.
Boone Logan signed a baseball for me.
Nunez career: .274 .318 .369
Cervelli: .273 .367 .380
Cervelli actually looks like the better hitter by comparison.
"Have faith in the Yankees, my son. Think of the great DiMaggio."
but look at the sample size and the trend
nunez has steadily improved over the last 3 years while cervelli held constant
Boone Logan signed a baseball for me.
in particular, nunez's year at SWB was better than any year cervelli had
Boone Logan signed a baseball for me.
I definitely think Jeter needs to be moved down in the lineup.
I think 7th would be good. I think Jeter would be willing to be moved down in the lineup. He strikes me as the type to do whats best for the team, even if that means swallowing his pride and being bumped to 7th until he starts hitting again. Gardener should definitely be leading off. His numbers are great this year and he has proved that he deserves it.
They didn't let me out, they just gave me a day pass.
The Mlekman agrees with me?
Writer for Pinstripe Alley, MLB Daily Dish
Follow me on twitter @nyybrandonc
Of course
"Winning is the most important thing in my life, after breathing. Breathing first, winning next." -George Michael Steinbrenner III
by Chris McKeown on Sep 9, 2010 11:51 PM EDT up reply actions
trade him for Derek Jeter
Hello everyone, my name is Curtis Granderson, and I'm a bus-o-holic
A supporter of the MFY.
anyway
I’m calling it a night (it’s already 2 am here in Manila). thanks for the lively discussion.
Thru all the bantering...
We still need to realize who this guy is…This is still Derek Jeter, slightly older and slower. But he’s still Derek Jeter. Mr. Clutch, Mr. November, El Capitan.
He’s going to have 3,500+ hits probably. Maybe even 4,000. He hasn’t lost it. He’s slumping, and yes it’s a prolonged slump. Wait until October. He will be Jeter again. Something about that crisp, cool October air always brings out his best.
And we’re still in first, last I checked. If Jeter starts causing us to lose then maybe I’ll change my thoughts. But he’s still Jeter—even if he hits into a double play every game..
Let's cut through the crap, Vaughn. I only got one thing to say to you: "Strike this mother f*cker out."
Hes not hurting us
but he certainly isnt helping us.
They didn't let me out, they just gave me a day pass.
He should be no. 2
1) GGBG (LF)
2) Jeter (SS)
3) Tex (1B)
4) A-Rod (3B)
5) Cano (2B)
6) Swish (RF)
7) Thames (DH)
8) Posada ©
9) Grandy (CF)
As great, on paper, as the left side looks, it sure is getting old and slow fast. While Cano and Tex look the exact opposite.
Let's cut through the crap, Vaughn. I only got one thing to say to you: "Strike this mother f*cker out."
i dont get this
change his name to Philip Grunderson. where should a .697 OPS batter hit in the lineup?
Sounds eerily close to 'Granderson'
Probably should just DFA him to be safe
"I am a man of great mental power." ~Alfonso Soriano
by Captain_Mick on Sep 10, 2010 9:44 AM EDT up reply actions
Drop him until he hits
I think Brandon has it about right. Jeter’s actually been solid against LHP. Against RHP, however, he’s been below replacement level. Way too hard on Granderson, though – I’d bat him higher against RHP especially, and maybe even LHP if he keeps up his decent performance lately.
"I am a man of great mental power." ~Alfonso Soriano
Lineup
Jeter
Swish
Tex
A_Rod
Cano
Posada
Grandy
Thames/Berkman
Gardner
Wash. STFU. Win. Repeat. Champs.
First off let me say this
it seems common among some of the writers lineups (mainly jscape, no offense), to drop A-Rod out of the cleanup spot. I guarantee he won’t be moved from there, and I think he shouldn’t. He has been one of the most productive hitters in the lineup. He’s the only one with 100 RBI in limited games. His simple presence makes the Yankees lineup better. And he generates more fear into the opposing team than anybody in that lineup. And he’s on fire. Sorry, but there’s nobody else I want hitting cleanup on this team than A-Rod.
I really would rather not move Jeter down, but he’s played so badly recently that they really don’t have a choice. At this rate his BA will be under .260 and his OBP under .320. Thats unacceptable for a top of the order hitter. If he starts turning it around, then absolutely leave him at the top of the order. But the way he’s hitting right now, he should be moved down.
So, I voted for Brandon, but I’m hoping he turns it around and if he does, then I agree with Duggan.
I’m hoping he turns it around and the postseason lineup will be-
Gardner
Jeter
Teixiera
A-Rod
Cano
Swisher
Posada
Granderson
Thames/Berkman
I hate all Boston sports teams
As the Captain
and the ultimate team player, I feel Derek would not be insulted at all if Girardi were to approach him with the thought of batting seventh (actually, let’s assume it’s not something he’s thinking of but rather is going to do ). Jeter has always cared about one thing above all others: team success. He’s the kind of guy where if another player whines about why he ought to be hitting higher in the lineup despite evidence to the contrary, Jeter would take him aside and tell him that the team comes first and that he should accept said demotion because the manager has the right to make those decisions. Jeter strikes me as a guy who lives in the moment and doesn’t expect extra special treatment because of his sterling past or the fact that he’s captain. Some might say that it’s different when the demotion involves “you” personally, but Jeter’s midset is so consistent with the team concept, which is to say no matter whose feelings might get hurt fielding the best team and lineup should always be priority number 1, I’m CERTAIN he would accept this demotion without any problems.
exactly.
he might be a bit insulted at first, but I think he would do it if he thinks it will help the team.
They didn't let me out, they just gave me a day pass.
+1
With how Jeter’s always behaved I’m sure if Girardi said “Listen Jeter…i’m going to try out the lineup with you batting lower” I’m sure he’d say “I understand”
Hello everyone, my name is Curtis Granderson, and I'm a bus-o-holic
A supporter of the MFY.
I voted Kuri
His lineup is pretty much the one that has the Yankees in first place. I have never been a Jeter “guy” but this is getting crazy. Leave the guy alone, he will be fine. So he is having a bad year, doesnt he deserve the benefit of the doubt? As long as Derek plays well in the postseason like he does almost everytime he is there, who cares? Remember how awful Big Papi was at the start of this year? Sox fans and the media wanted him DFA’d, he has turned out fine, hasnt he?
Kuri's is alright, I don't like the mandatory platooning of Grandy right away with his recent improvements
The thing different between what’s happened with Jeter and Ortiz is that Ortiz had one awful month and has been good since whereas Jeter has been on a slow decline this year.
I don’t know if I want Jeter moved down but he’s been bad enough where I wouldn’t criticize it.
Hello everyone, my name is Curtis Granderson, and I'm a bus-o-holic
A supporter of the MFY.
I wouldnt criticize it but I think it's unnecessary
It does happen though. I remember Mattingly always hitting in the three hole, until he started regressing and O’Neill was put there. Mattingly was fine with it and understood. I know Jeter always says the right things and is the face of the franchise but I dont think he will react as well to a drop in the lineup as some here think. And the Yankees also will go into the off season ready to hand Derek 15 to 20 million to bat 9th and play avg D at best? I just cant see that.
For the record I agree with the first list here but refuse to vote "Brandon"
Give me a “Barndon” option!
Hello everyone, my name is Curtis Granderson, and I'm a bus-o-holic
A supporter of the MFY.
by Edgware on Sep 9, 2010 4:42 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Greetings from Pennsylvania! Thanks for voting for me everyone! You guys like mine the best? I feel so honored! In all seriousness, while none of our lineups will likely be the one Girardi uses, once it comes playoff time the Yankees need to have a set lineup in place. Let’s hope Jeter can step it up. Back to Pennsylvanianess!
Writer for Pinstripe Alley, MLB Daily Dish
Follow me on twitter @nyybrandonc
Oh and I’m taking names of people who didn’t vote for me. I just got a new hammer in Pennsylvania.
Writer for Pinstripe Alley, MLB Daily Dish
Follow me on twitter @nyybrandonc
I went with Travis
At this point, I can’t take anyone who has Jeter 2nd (or doesn’t have Swisher 2nd) seriously. Maybe I need to give Berkman/Kearns a 2nd look, but while I think they belong in the lineup at least situationally, they shouldn’t be near the top.
I gave Jeter a LOT of rope this season, but once you’re OPSing below 700 from one of the top-6 spots that’s Omar Moreno territory, and it’s enough to cost a team wins.
wait a minute...
TODAY’S AN OFF DAY???
Hello everyone, my name is Curtis Granderson, and I'm a bus-o-holic
A supporter of the MFY.
I'll say it again. The Yankees are in 1st place with the best record in baseball...
Dropping Jeter in the order will create a major media s-storm whether he agrees to it or not. If Girardi were to do this and the Yankees do not repeat as WS champions, he would be promptly fired. There is no way that this is going to happen, nor should it. A major shakeup in the lineup of the team with the best record in baseball makes no sense.
We're also a bad series away from being the Wild Card.
by PortlandYankee on Sep 9, 2010 7:14 PM EDT up reply actions
Not sure how creating a media s-storm would help that...
When Torre did it with ARod, it did not exactly turn out well.
The next year ARod had his best season ever
Not much causality there, but more than you’re applying it seems
"I am a man of great mental power." ~Alfonso Soriano
The fact is that dropping ARod in the order did not help the Yankees then
just like dropping Jeter won’t help now. You don’t mess with the best team in baseball. Not sure why that is controversial.
I've mentioned this before
vs RHP
Gardner LF…high OB, great speed
Jeter SS…usually good at handling a bat and moving runners over
Cano 2B…The team’s most consistent hitter. Let him get up with someone on base
ARod 3B…Where else?
Tex 1B… hitting .260 something, but power. ARod would get better pitches to hit because Tex really should be a bigger power threat than Cano.
Swisher RF…good season. Will pick up runners that ARod and Tex seem to be stranding.
Berkman DH
Posada C
Granderson CF…Can hit for power, but he would be like having another lead off man, if he can just get on base.
vs LHP:
Jeter SS
Swisher RF
Tex 1B
ARod 3B
Cano 2B
Thames DH
Kearns LF
Posada C
Gardner CF
You leave the lineup as it is
Because Derek deserves it. He can end it on his terms, retire, tell Joe to move him down, whatever. But you don’t make the captain hit 9th. That’s just disrespect, no matter how bad he’s hitting.
All I can say is this...
Can’t wait until I get next year’s Strat cards. I can create any lineup I want. Heck…I might even let Pettitte pitch the entire season.
It looks like no one has suggested this yet,
so I’m going to go ahead and do so. I think the middle (3/4/5) should be re-ordered to reflect developments over the last 2 years. Cano should be 3rd because he is now the best hitter for average. Tex should hit clean-up since he has hit more HR’s and has driven in more runs over the past two years (even taking into account his early struggles each year) than A-Rod, who should bat 5th. A-Rod would be protected by Swish. I’d keep Jeter where he is (which, for the time being — until he pulls out of his slump — should encourage Gardy to run early in the count), and put Grandy 9th to give us a Grandy-Gardy speed combo from 9 to 1. Jeter would be protected by Cano and may get somewhat better pitches to hit. And, so long as Gardy gets on base, Jeter will see more predictable fast balls, which should help him out a little.
Having said all that, this would be my everyday order:
Gardner LF
Jeter SS
Cano 2B
Tex 1B
A-Rod 3B
Swisher RF
Posada C
Berkman/Thames DH
Grandy CF
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