Bomber Links: A Round Debate
by Lord Duggan on Sep 5, 2010 9:00 AM EDT
in New York Yankees News
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PrintMood Music - Billie Jean by Michael Jackson (Warning: Video contains extremely awesome moonwalk)
As you may have heard, the Yankees rotund ace, CC Sabathia, is an AL Cy Young contender. Here is a case being made for CC, and here is a case being made against CC being the winner.
A snippet from the case being made for CC, from the Boston Herald's (huh?) Bob Klapisch:
A slider here or there will miss a corner or one of those smart-bomb fastballs that whisper over the black will drift through the heart of the strike zone. It happens, but not very often.
Other than these fleeting glimpses of imperfection, Sabathia is otherwise destroying the American League at a rate that could (and should) earn him the Cy Young Award. The Yankees’ ace not only threw an eight-inning one-hitter in the Yankees’ 5-0 win over the A’s on Thursday, he allowed only three batted balls to leave the infield while ignoring the near-100 degree temps.
How good was he? Jorge Posada was convinced Sabathia "had no-hit stuff," which raised a more compelling question: what mortal thrives when it’s this hot?
And a snippet from the case being made against CC, from BleacherReport.com:
His wins are pretty, but he certainly hasn't been the best pitcher in the American League. The 7.67 runs the Yankees give him in support per game have certainly helped his Win-Loss numbers. Sabathia has given up five earned runs in three of his decisions where he either got a no-decision or win, because the Yankees offense bailed him out.
This is the main complaint that is leveled about CC's performance. His win total is inflated because the Yankees have such a dynamic offense, and in more team-neutral categories, like ERA, there have been a few pitchers who have been better. If it's up to me to decide, as of right now, the AL Cy Young Award winner would be Felix Hernandez, but I'm afraid I don't get a vote (yet).
The importance of Kerry Wood and Boone Logan.
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It was a huge victory for the BWAA to give Greinke the award last year and he only had 10 wins.
I dunno if they can fathom giving it to a guy with only 11 or 12 wins. I know it;s not right, but that’s unfortunately how they roll.
Strikeouts are boring- Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.
Greinke had 16, duh. Not 10.
Strikeouts are boring- Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.
by CasanovaWong on Sep 5, 2010 10:07 AM EDT up reply actions
3 decisions?
he got the no-decision or win..in 3 god damn decisions, and that’s a case against him winning the Cy Young? What about the other 25 decisions or whatever the hell he’s at minus those 3?
Those who write for the bleacher report should be tied to the bleachers, gagged and beaten..then the bleachers get blown up. Morons.
CC is the best pitcher on the best team. Without CC, the Yanks are not the best team. With Felix Hernandez or Clay Bungholz, their teams are not the best. Got it voters? Good.
The only time a pitcher doing well on his performance on a sucky team is when there’s no clear cut winner on a PLAYOFF team.
CC is a clear cut winner on a PLAYOFF team. If CC isn’t unanimous, castrations deserve to abound.
Oh good lord, the "best team" argument
The Cy Young isn’t just about winning. It’s about who is the best pitcher. And anyone who knows anything about baseball knows pitchers largely can not determine if their team ultimately wins or loses. They can seriously help with a good outing or seriously hinder with an implosion, but I’ve never seen a team win without scoring a run (Seattle…).
Felix should be Cy Young. He probably won’t be, but he should be.
CC hasn't been all that far off of Felix.
and anyone who knows anything about baseball, would see that CC’s pretty much the reason why his team is the best in baseball.
Pitcher’s records matter a lot on the hitters, yea…but you could not have watched the Yanks all year and tell me that without CC, the Yanks are where they are.
Best pitcher on the best team. How’s he gonna be an MVP candidate and not a Cy Young candidate?
The best overall pitcher argument only matters when there’s not a clear cut winner on the best team. There IS a clear cut winner.
Castrations may abound if Felix wins this.
by FreeBradshaw on Sep 5, 2010 12:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Cy Young is different from MVP
Cy Young goes to the best pitcher, period. Not the best pitcher on the best team.
if that were the case
it would happen once every 40 years.
More times then not, its someone like CC that wins. And he deserves it.
by FreeBradshaw on Sep 5, 2010 12:18 PM EDT up reply actions
I do agree it is usually someone like CC who wins it
I suppose I misspoke…the Cy Young SHOULD go to the best pitcher for reasons I stated below. It probably will go to CC, who is a worthy candidate but not the best choice; Felix has had a better season than CC in every statistical category except for wins, which intelligent baseball peoples largely do not regard.
Also, if you do go on a castration binge be sure to hit up some Red Sox executive offices.
Everyone seems to be overlooking a key point.
Sabathia plays in the toughest division in the AL while Hernandez plays in the weakest. The AL East has 4 teams with an above .500 winning percentage and only 1 team below that mark. The AL West is pretty much the opposite with only 1 team above the .500 mark and 3 teams below. As a result, the Yankees have to play a hell of a lot more games against good teams than does Seattle. To some degree, and I’d bet it’s fairly significant, that has to detract from Sabathia’s stats and add to Hernandez’s stats.
yes, but
Felix has our number (three starts, 26.0 IP, 1 ER, 8 BB, 31 stikeouts) and owned the Sox in his start against them. He can beat strong offensive opponents. His competition may play a factor, but remember how many starts CC has against the Orioles too.
If CC wins 22+ and manages to drop his ERA below 3, he's got to get the award.
Pitchers, even on great teams don’t get 20 wins very often anymore, and a sub-3 ERA in AL is always a major accomplishment. It gonna be tough to ignore CC for CY if is final line is 23 wins and 2.90 ERA.
by upstateNYYFan1984 on Sep 5, 2010 10:15 AM EDT reply actions
Agreed on King Felix
The only category he looks worse than CC in is W-L record. He’s even got CC beat in IP, which is pretty astonishing.
CC would come next in my voting, followed closely by Price. I wouldn’t even consider Buchholz since he’s on the Red Sox.
Usqueadbaugham! Anam muck an dhoul ! Did ye drink me doornail?
I've seen them both pitch in person
And follow both CC and Felix pretty closely since I am a huge Yankee fan and I live just outside of Seattle. CC is a horse, a fantastic pitcher, and a probably future Hall of Famer. And Felix is probably better. If he played for us he would have over 20 wins already…it isn’t his fault he gets like 2 runs of support.
no way
There’s no way you could give it to Felix over CC just because of the win loss record. Its for the best pitcher who’s helped his team win the most, and Felix is 10-10 to CC’s 19-5. Felix would have to have an ERA around 1.5 and 300K’s to justify giving it to him over CC.
Felix HAS helped his team win
The Cy Young isn’t for the pitcher who has the best team, it’s simply for the best pitcher. There is no “what does ‘valuable’ mean?” debate because it’s not in the language of the award. Cy Young should go to simply the best pitcher.
Even the very best starting pitchers can only account for 20% of their team’s games, and even then it’s not full games unless they throw a complete game. And withing what they do when they are on the mound, their end is only half of the game. Their offense needs to back them up. That is why team overall record and pitcher’s win/loss shouldn’t be a big factor in Cy Young races.
Also, I wouldn’t give Felix the Cy Young because of the win/loss record. It would be because of his superior ERA, WHIP, more innings per start, lower H/9 and BB/9 ratios, a higher K/9 and K/BB ratio, and a higher WAR.
Perhaps the greatest mood music yet
The King of Pop… amazing.
"Winning is the most important thing in my life, after breathing. Breathing first, winning next." -George Michael Steinbrenner III
As great as that Billie Jean dominance was, check out this. People should not be able to dance that well…..
Questions or thoughts? Email me at duggan2423(at)gmail(dot)com
Insane
"Winning is the most important thing in my life, after breathing. Breathing first, winning next." -George Michael Steinbrenner III
by Chris McKeown on Sep 6, 2010 11:43 AM EDT up reply actions
Find me a better performer than Michael Jackson
"Winning is the most important thing in my life, after breathing. Breathing first, winning next." -George Michael Steinbrenner III
by Chris McKeown on Sep 6, 2010 11:43 AM EDT up reply actions
I responded to the
“Best mood ’music”" comment. He was a great performer, yes, but best mood music ever? Not even close.
By the way
Are you and Yankees2 the same person? It’s weird how you two agree on everything and respond the same way. Just curious.
By the way
I agree with BleacherReport. We’ve touched on run support multiple times on PA, and it’s true that the 7.67 runs per game only help his cause (sorta like Hughes’ average run support of 10 help). He certainly hasn’t been the BEST pitcher in the league, but he’s been the foundation of the rotation and been our workhorse all year. I want him on the mound when we need a win desperately, and that’s all that matters.
"Winning is the most important thing in my life, after breathing. Breathing first, winning next." -George Michael Steinbrenner III
That's too bad Duggan, if you must know, I DO have a vote
I’m voting for Nick Swisher
(and I think it should go to CC if I actually DID have a vote)
Hello everyone, my name is Curtis Granderson, and I'm a bus-o-holic
A supporter of the MFY.
Not Grandy?
One day you will find him striking out the Sox side in a Champagne IvanNova in the sky
I am Curtis Granderson, and so should you
http://twitter.com/MattF15
by MattF15 on Sep 5, 2010 11:14 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Look at where CC is doing this...
in the Bronx, where mere mortals crumble under the pressure of being a Yankee….Felix can have the Cy Young. CC already has one of those in his back pocket…I’m sure he prefers another championship ring anyway.
"...we are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively. there is no such thing as death. life is only a dream and we are the imagination of ourselves..."
by Nine Inch Nails on Sep 5, 2010 12:02 PM EDT reply actions
By value, Cliff Lee & Liriano (6.0) are tied for 1st
Felix is behind those two at 3rd (5.6)
CC is 9th (but moving up).
It’s interesting that in all this discussion, there’s almost no love for Liriano, who has put up 50% more value than CC this year, also for a 1st place team.
By WAR, the Yankees w/o CC still make the playoffs today (82 wins). W/o Liriano, the Twins miss the playoffs (73 instead of 79 wins).
and that's why WAR needs to be taken with a grain of salt.
while I don’t doubt the Twins miss the playoffs without Liriano, I highly doubt the Yanks make the playoffs without CC.
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