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Around SBN: Yankees Deny Rumors That Team Is For Sale

25 for 25: Yankees

I'm actually a St. Louis Cardinals fan, but over the past few months I've been working on a roster for each franchise in the majors, composed of players over the last 25 years. The way this works is that I pick one player from each season and I have to fill out an entire roster (for AL teams, 2 catchers, 2 infielders at each position, 5 total outfielders, one designated hitter, 5 starting pitchers, 4 relievers). I can't take more than one player for each year, I have to take one player each season even in the bad years, and I can't use the same player for multiple positions or years. If a player played the majority of his games at one position, I can't use that season for another position even if he's played it before. And I used basic minimums of 60 innings or 250 PA's (prorated for strike seasons).

The interesting part with this are the decisions that have to be made, whether it is, "Dang, there are some really nice outfielder seasons to choose from, who gets left out?", or, "Does this team even have two decent catchers in a 25-year span?", or, "This guy had so many great years - which one do I choose?" Sometimes a great year gets left out, sometimes a fluke, partial season gets tabbed for the team. I actually posted a fully researched extended version for the Cardinals from 1910 to 1934. The NL versions for this era are there as well (linky, linky, linky, linky).

You're welcome to pick apart my choices and make suggestions of your own. I'm looking forward to hearing from everybody.

Star-divide

C – Mike Stanley (1993), Jorge Posada (2000)

1B – Don Mattingly (1986), Jason Giambi (2002)

2B – Willie Randolph (1987), Alfonso Soriano (2003)

3B – Scott Brosius (1998), Alex Rodriguez (2007)

SS – Andy Stankiewicz (1992), Derek Jeter (1999)

OF – Rickey Henderson (1985), Jesse Barfield (1990), Paul O'Neill (1994), Bernie Williams (1995), Garry Sheffield (2004)

DH – Jack Clark (1988)

SP – Andy Pettitte (1997), Roger Clemens (2001), Chien Ming Wang (2006), Mike Mussina (2008), CC Sabathia (2009)

RP – Lee Guetterman (1989), Steve Farr (1991), John Wetteland (1996), Mariano Rivera (2005)

Notable exceptions: Tino Martinez (1997), Chuck Knoblauch (1998), Robinson Cano (2007), Wade Boggs (1994), Mike Gallego (1993), Dave Winfield (1988), Melido Perez (1992), Jimmy Key (1994), David Cone (1997), Dave Righetti (1986), Tom Gordon (2004)

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For those of you wondering how I could leave Dave Winfield off the team

Let me tell you that I wanted him on here, but I couldn’t make it work. The only way he makes the team is if I dump Mike Stanley in favor of Matt Nokes in ’91. Confused? Follow along:
- Winfield, as an outfielder, kicks off Jack Clark in 1988
- Clark is replaced at DH by Tartabull in ’93
- Tartabull bumps off Mike Stanley for 1993
- Stanley is replaced at C by Nokes in ’91
- Nokes causes Steve Farr to move from ’91 to ’92
- Farr pushes out Andy Stankiewicz in 1992
- Stankiewicz is replaced at SS by Alvaro Espinosa (egad!) of 1989
- Espinosa forces Lee Guetterman to jump from ’89 to ’90
- Guetterman shoves Jesse Barfield off the team and restores equilibrium

The whole series of moves results in either no change or a downgrade at every position. Not a good trade-off just to get a Hall of Famer on the team.

Also, I’m a little disappointed that Stankiewicz doesn’t have his B-R page sponsored. Every other player on this roster (other than Farr) has a sponsorship, although Willie Randolph’s patron just rails on about his poor managing. Get to work, people!

I was reading about how countless species are being pushed toward extinction by man's destruction of forests. Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us. - Calvin, Scientific Progress Goes "Boink", Watterson

by Solanus on Aug 21, 2010 11:26 AM EDT reply actions  

You could switch 1988 Winfield with 1990 Barfield

and put 1990 Kevin Maas instead of 1988 Jack Clark at DH

by bluecheese999 on Aug 21, 2010 9:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

Maas played more games at first base that year

So that wouldn’t work. (I would have prefered it myself, because that was a great partial season, but no.)

I was reading about how countless species are being pushed toward extinction by man's destruction of forests. Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us. - Calvin, Scientific Progress Goes "Boink", Watterson

by Solanus on Aug 21, 2010 10:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

Posada's 2007 was better then his 2000

I’ll take Tex’s season in 2009 over anything Giambi did simply cuz it was as complete a season a 1B had for the Yanks since Tino was in beast mode.

And I dunno if you’re including 2010, but Cano’s season surpasses Soriano’s; on pace to better everything except SB’s, but Robby is a much better defender. Or at least it surpasses Randolphs already exponentially.

by FreeBradshaw on Aug 21, 2010 11:40 AM EDT reply actions  

To make it work, you have to find a replacement for the years and positions you vacate

If you move Posada to 2007, you need to either move Rodriguez (9.9 WAR in ’07) to another year (necessitating further moves) or find a third baseman in 2000 or some other year (again, more changes). Same thing with Teixeira.

Moving Posada around doesn’t really improve your team enough to offset the downgrade off A-Rod’s great season. And in terms of WAR/WARP1, Teixeira’s ‘09 doesn’t stack up against Giambi’s 7.5 wins. I know Mark’s a much better defender (although that’s not much of a bar to clear there), but Jason was an offensive force. (And Tino’s numbers don’t look so hot, when compared with others on his own teams or the other first basemen.)

As for bumping this out to 2010, you’d probably add Cano, but you would need to replace one of Randolph / Soriano AND Rickey Henderson in 1985 (maybe just move him over to ’87 if you dump Willie).

I was reading about how countless species are being pushed toward extinction by man's destruction of forests. Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us. - Calvin, Scientific Progress Goes "Boink", Watterson

by Solanus on Aug 21, 2010 11:59 AM EDT up reply actions  

Couple of changes I'd make...

Robinson Cano 2006 over Willie Randolph 1987.
Mike Gallego 1993 over Andy Stankiewicz 1992.
Hideki Matsui 2004 over Jesse Barfield 1990, and Bernie’s best year was either 1998 or 1999.
I would take Tino Martinez 1997 as the 2nd 1st baseman and put Jason Giambi 2006 as the DH. 2006 was the only year Giambi DH’d more than he played 1st, but this gets Jack Clark out of there.
Also I’d take Jimmy Key 1993 and David Cone 1998 over Clemens 2001 and Wang 2006. I also think Mussina’s best year as a Yankee was 2001.

by Let's Talk About Tex Baby on Aug 21, 2010 12:11 PM EDT reply actions  

Repercussions

Every time you make a move you need to replace the player you just bumped and fill in the year you just vacated.
- Cano is at best a push compared to Willie, plus you have to replace Wang and find somebody for ‘87.
- Of course, Gallego is better than Stankiewicz, but ’93 is taken and you need somebody for ’92.
- Matsui would have to replace Sheffield for ’04, which would open a spot for an outfielder, which would necessitate adding Barfield back on the team. Also, using (B-R) WAR / (BP) WARP1, Bernie’s best season is 1995.
- Tino’s ‘97 is nowhere near as good as Giambi in 2002 (switching to him to DH is basically a push with Clark). Plus you’ve vacated ‘02 and kicked Pettitte and Wang off the team.
- If you do it legitimately, adding Key and Cone would bump Stanley at catcher (you don’t have many options) and Brosius at third. And yes, Mussina’s best year was 2001 (maybe the 2nd best of the whole era), but ’08 is a decent fallback position for Moose and allows you to add another quality starting pitcher in Clemens (5+ wins).
- You have 2 or 3 players off the 1998 team (Brosius is already there, and you add Cone and maybe Bernie) and 3 for the ’93 team (Stanley at C, Gallego at SS, and Key at SP).

The point of the exercise is to force you to pick somebody from every season and only one per year. It causes you to make tough decisions and let go of some good players / seasons because you can’t fit them all in.

I was reading about how countless species are being pushed toward extinction by man's destruction of forests. Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us. - Calvin, Scientific Progress Goes "Boink", Watterson

by Solanus on Aug 21, 2010 12:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

Great post! Brings back some great memories.

I don’t even have time to try to work out any potential changes. I can’t imagine how many hours this took for research, working/re-working, editing, linking, etc. Thanks for putting it together. I will definitely check out your work for other teams… when I find the time.

When you work out your biceps, do you want six little ones? No, of course not--you want one big one; I took the same approach with my ab. -- Me

by eric. on Aug 21, 2010 3:11 PM EDT reply actions  

8-10 hours per team, roughly

Plus keeping up with the comments at the websites. So that’s roughly 300-350 hours total work, most done at home, some done at my job during slow days.

That’s just the basic lists – the extended one I did for the 1910-1934 Cardinals teams took 35-40 hours by itself and I still need to do the ‘35-’59, ‘60-’84, and ‘85-’09 teams. But it is quite a bit of fun to research the older players and read the great stories about Pete Alexander and Austin McHenry and Doc Lavan. Also, finding old pictures and putting faces with the names is cool, too.

I know the Yankees and their fans probably have the greatest attention to their history of any of the franchises in baseball, but if someone here wants to give this sort of thing a shot, it is a great introduction to the past for many of the visitors on here. I’m pretty sure few people really talk about the pre-Ruth teams around here.

I was reading about how countless species are being pushed toward extinction by man's destruction of forests. Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us. - Calvin, Scientific Progress Goes "Boink", Watterson

by Solanus on Aug 21, 2010 5:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

Very impressive exercise

Nice to see how well you thought this out, and for teams other than your own.

by pastor2b on Aug 21, 2010 4:15 PM EDT reply actions  

I started doing just the Cardinals, for the four quarters of the past century

Then I had a couple Cubs buddies (I live in the northern burbs of Chicago) that know their baseball, so I worked up a couple lists for them (85-09, 10-34). Then I started futzing around with the NL Central and I got the taste for it. At this point I probably couldn’t just drop it – I need to see how it ends.

This is probably better for the offseason, but I need to get this done before season’s end so it’s current. (I started this back in December.)

I was reading about how countless species are being pushed toward extinction by man's destruction of forests. Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us. - Calvin, Scientific Progress Goes "Boink", Watterson

by Solanus on Aug 21, 2010 5:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

I went to college in the west burbs of Chicago (River Forest), and I always enjoyed the post-season there

The Yankees didn’t actually win the series any of those years, but it was fun mocking all the Cubbie fans!

by pastor2b on Aug 21, 2010 7:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

Awesome

I’ll play along:
SP- CC Sabathia (2009) Mike Mussina (2003), David Wells (2002), Jimmy Key (1993), Scott Sanderson (1991)
RP- Mariano Rivera (2008), Tom Gordon (2004), Ramiro Mendoza (2001), John Wetteland (1995)
C- Jorge Posada (2007), Joe Girardi (1996)
1B- Tino Martinez (1997), Don Mattingly (1986)
2B- Willie Randolph (1987), Steve Sax (1989)
3B- Scott Brosius (1998), Wade Boggs (1994)
SS- Derek Jeter (2000),
LF- Mel Hall (1991),
CF- Bernie Williams (1999), Roberto Kelly (1990), Ricky Henderson (1985)
RF- Bobby Abreu (2006), Danny Tartabull (1992), Dave Winfield (1988)
DH- Jason Giambi (2005),

I’m not sure how my team stacks up with yours, but there were some surprisingly tough choices. I think this team is the better balance of the options I considered. I think I passed on some slightly better pitching years (Guidry ’85, Wells and Cone ’98, CMW ’07) in favor of significantly better offensive seasons.

"Have faith in the Yankees, my son. Think of the great DiMaggio."

by jscape2000 on Aug 22, 2010 12:03 AM EDT reply actions  

I was thinking the same thing.

Questions or thoughts? Email me at duggan2423(at)gmail(dot)com

by Lord Duggan on Aug 22, 2010 3:18 AM EDT up reply actions  

See below

The Yankees have had 3 great seasons from 3 different 3B in the last 25 years, especially with Boggs’ ‘94 being one of the few standout performances of that season.
There were several standout performances from Arod’s years with the Yankees. And Brosius and Boggs have the stronger defensive reputations.

"Have faith in the Yankees, my son. Think of the great DiMaggio."

by jscape2000 on Aug 22, 2010 11:19 AM EDT up reply actions  

A-Rod's '07

Was one of the greatest seasons in Yankees history. You can’t take him off the list.
Nothing Boggs did could compete with 54 dingers and 156 rbis.

Let's cut through the crap, Vaughn. I only got one thing to say to you: "Strike this mother f*cker out."

by tclaro on Aug 23, 2010 1:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

Good job

Although I am contractually obligated to perform objective criticism. Without diving into the numbers, here’s what I see:
- You have 26 players on this team. You have both Sanderson and Hall from the ‘91 team.
- I noticed that you have just one shortstop. There’s not a lot to choose from other than Jeter, is there?
- Not having Rodriguez on the team is a big oversight, but I noticed a minimum number of malcontents and troublemakers, so that might be the reason.
- The combination of a 26-man roster and only one SS means you have 7 outfielders (yet surprisingly no O’Neill).
- Giambi played the majority of his games at first base, not designated hitter. Whether he can be considered a first baseman is another matter entirely.

It is harder than it looks at first glance, but it’s a good thought exercise.

I was reading about how countless species are being pushed toward extinction by man's destruction of forests. Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us. - Calvin, Scientific Progress Goes "Boink", Watterson

by Solanus on Aug 22, 2010 7:47 AM EDT up reply actions  

I was torn about leaving off Arod, but I thought Posada’s 2007 + Boggs’ 1994 was greater than Arod 2007/2005 and any other catcher combination.

Oops on the 2 ‘91s. I think I’d leave off Hall and move Rickey or Kelly to LF.

On positioning- I used B-Ref’s position. Giambi is listed as the DH for 2005. Again, this pushed off Arod because there weren’t many good DH seasons in the last 25 years.

I figure Randolph can slide over to SS for Jeter’s days off.

"Have faith in the Yankees, my son. Think of the great DiMaggio."

by jscape2000 on Aug 22, 2010 11:15 AM EDT up reply actions  

how would your lineup bat? im guessing...

1-1985 Rickey Henderson, 2-1999 Derek Jeter, 3-1986 Don Mattingly, 4-2007 Alex Rodriguez, 5-1995 Bernie Williams, 6-1994 Paul O’ Neil, 7-2000 Jorge Posada, 8-1988 Jack Clark, 9-2003 Alfonso Soriano

by Brian5517209 on Aug 22, 2010 2:43 AM EDT reply actions  

This list is incomplete...

… without the inclusion of Kevin Mmahat.

by VincentC on Aug 22, 2010 8:49 AM EDT reply actions  

WHOA!!!

Where’s 1997 Tino?!?!?

Let's cut through the crap, Vaughn. I only got one thing to say to you: "Strike this mother f*cker out."

by tclaro on Aug 23, 2010 1:39 PM EDT reply actions  

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