'Purgatory Of Middle Relief' For Chamberlain
by Ed Valentine on Jul 27, 2010 8:20 AM EDT
in New York Yankees Analysis
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PrintNew York Yankees Manager Joe Girardi, of course, fielded lots of questions Monday night about bypassing Joba Chamberlain in the eighth inning.
He tried to diffuse the notion that Joba has lost the eighth-inning job.
"I think that would be a misinterpretation of tonight's events,'' he said. "I'm not saying I'm handing it over to Joba every time we go to the eighth. I'm gonna look at things. That's my job. I liked the matchup of Robertson versus Cabrera and I liked the matchup of Boonie against Choo.''
Sorry, Joe. Nobody's buying what you are selling. At the very least, everybody can see that you just issued the startlingly inconsistent Chamberlain a challenge.
Here is how Ben Shipgel of the New York Times summarized the situation.
What Girardi also did - perhaps intentionally, perhaps not - was issue to Chamberlain a not-so-subtle reminder that there are consequences for your actions.
Chamberlain has looked shaky in five straight outings, as well as throughout the season, and has an earned run average of 5.95. That is the second-highest E.R.A. among qualifying relievers in the American League; only his teammate Chad Gaudin (6.54) has fared worse.
The more Chamberlain struggles, the further he moves from his glorious 2007 season, which to Yankees fans might already seem longer than three years ago. The team has a lot invested in Chamberlain and is certainly not willing to give up on him. Girardi expressed confidence in Chamberlain, but it seems this much is clear: Before he gets his old job back, Chamberlain, like everyone else, needs to reprove himself.
Wallace Matthews of ESPN New York had this to say.
In the very ballpark in which he faced his postseason Waterloo on the infamous Night of the Midges back in 2007, Chamberlain faced another kind of exile -- to the purgatory of middle relief, the realm of the Chad Gaudins and the Sergio Mitres, the repository for pitchers a manager isn't quite sure what to do with.
I was actually glad to see the move. Not only because I thought it gave the Yankees their best chance to win a close game, but because I think Joba needs to be challenged.
To me, Chamberlain sometimes seems disinterested -- like he is out there but he isn't really into it. Maybe this will be a wakeup call for him.
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Good Move
By Joe G., got to earn your stripes…
"I felt completely out of whack... Once again, I didn’t give our team a chance out of the gate."..
I am Allan James Burnett, and I approve this message.
I agree
Also, how do you not role out Robertson in the 8th inning at this point? the guy for the last 2 months has been great. I think the Yankees have their setup guy in Robertson, Joba is just going to have to suck it up and prove his worth by taking Robertsons role.
AGREED. D-rob has been great after his shaky outing, and was great last yr also. I dont see how he hasn’t earned at least a chance at taking over the 8th inning job. I know it worked out last night, but I dont understand why girardi needed to pull robertson and go match up in the 8th last night. Logan clearly did his job, but let robertson prove himself out there and finish off the 8th- seeing another guy doing his job for him will hopfully put some fight back in joba also.
by BronxBeliever on Jul 27, 2010 9:12 AM EDT up reply actions
well apparently Choo had a huge platoon split
so i’m fine with it, as long as he doesn’t do it everytime
Section 203 Row 15 Seat 1
Shaky Logic
It may be a misinterpretation, but just the fact that Joba wasn’t the first choice, or natural and easy one to make shows he has lost confidence in his ability. I don’t think it was a punitive as some are making it out to be, but it do think it gives us a glimpse into what Joe G is thinking.
as an aside
chris coghlan tearing his meniscus while doing a pie on the face may be bad new for burnett. screw coghlan if pies in the face have to go because of his injury, much like how walkoff celebrations are gone because of morales.
RU RAH RAH
RU RAH RAH
Or Joba pitched the game before
and Girardi’s always been hesitant to use him in back to back games, even if he didn’t exactly earn it anyway.
Go New York Go!
If that was the case girardi would have said that in the post game- it would have halted all the questions for the night. Instead he gave the little dance of an answer mentioned above, never mentioning that it was simply a night of rest for a pitcher who had thrown the day before. could have saved himself a lot of trouble.
by BronxBeliever on Jul 27, 2010 9:14 AM EDT up reply actions
Girardi always dances around questions...
Can take it however I guess. If you’re looking for it to mean that he was moving Joba out of the role, you can.
Or ‘Misinterpretation of tonights events", could mean that’s not true and he wanted to go with DRob..who didn’t pitch on Sunday and probably pitches well against Cabrera according to THE BOOK!
Go New York Go!
by FreeBradshaw on Jul 27, 2010 9:22 AM EDT up reply actions
lol ahhhhh yes the book. i see what youre saying but my point is this: if girardi only used d-rob there because he hadnt pitched the day before and joba had, why not come out and say it and save himself the next 35 questions? it doesnt make sense not to if what youre saying was the case
by BronxBeliever on Jul 27, 2010 9:25 AM EDT up reply actions
who knows?
I’m saying Girardi rarely ever does that sort of thing. The media asks overreacts to anything Joba related anyway, so as soon as they see him not in the 8th they already had 35 questions they’re gonna ask.
The Yanks pen revolves around him for whatever reason. That’s probably why he stinks right now…the best trait of being a bullpen pitcher is forgetting about a past failure and starting clean…something the media, and fans for that matter, will never let Joba overcome as long as he’s in NY.
Go New York Go!
by FreeBradshaw on Jul 27, 2010 9:29 AM EDT up reply actions
Its a crack up
That Girardi says “its not what you think, here is what it is” and the media insists on turning it into the story THEY want to tell.
Let the guy manage and let the kid pitch.
Stop with the drama already. He’s a NY Yankee relief pitcher. if Joe wants him in 7th or the 8th or the 9th then that’s where he’ll be.
Geeeeez. What’re y’all gonna talk about when there’s no Mo?
Joba's response to his "demotion" was telling
When asked about not pitching the eighth ,he was quoted as saying "I still have my job.
Now I don’t think anyone should make too much out of quotes to the press, but Joba should be angry about losing his 8th inning role. He should fight hard to regain that role, not just be satisfied to still be in the big leagues.
Happy birthday A-Rod!
"Winning is the most important thing in my life, after breathing. Breathing first, winning next." -George Michael Steinbrenner III
"The realm of Chad Gaudins and Sergie Mitres"
LOL +23124
"Winning is the most important thing in my life, after breathing. Breathing first, winning next." -George Michael Steinbrenner III
Joba who
This guy cant close out an inning without letting runs cross the plate………we are in trouble with this guy on the mound…….package him up,,,,,send him pack,n
Agree... package Joba in a trade for Soria or Downs
Joba is out of shape both physically and mentally.
Joba never got over losing the SP job to Hughes .
Joba has lost his mojo and confidense.
We need to move on,package in trade including Mitre, CHOP, for a quality reliever and veteran position player witha good bat off the bench
by YANKEES FOREVER on Jul 27, 2010 11:50 AM EDT up reply actions
Look
I honestly think the medias making way too much of this. Last night it was a one run game there was already a runner on base. Joba has been pitching like shit, its time to get someone else in there. You’ve gotta ease him back into that roll, bring him with a 2 run lead in the 7th or the 6th inning until he gets back into that rythm of getting guys out. I think less pressure situations could be step one to getting him back on track.
It's New York
When does the media NOT make a big deal out of things? It’s ridiculous.
"Winning is the most important thing in my life, after breathing. Breathing first, winning next." -George Michael Steinbrenner III
by Chris McKeown on Jul 27, 2010 9:59 AM EDT up reply actions
Your right
The medias ridiculous. Didn’t Joba pitch yesterday? or was it Saturday? Either way he gave up 2 runs in one inning vs the Royals. I am not bringing Joba into the 8th inning until he can come in the 6th and 7th innings and get some guys out.
I agree with Ed's assessment of Joba not being mentally there sometimes...
I’ve noticed that he just doesn’t get amped up like he used. Very few times have I seen him pump his fist and scream this year… he just takes his glove off with his right hand and waddles to the dugout.
"Winning is the most important thing in my life, after breathing. Breathing first, winning next." -George Michael Steinbrenner III
He has NO confidence
For whatever reason; his injury, a fear of failure…He lacks confidence, that’s why I think it would have been a good idea to let him spend some time in AAA to get back his mojo. This isn’t going to help, being demoted, and yes, he was just demoted.
Yea
Lets trade Joba for Roy Oswalt and make him our setup guy and while we’re at it lets trade Montero for Prince Fielder and make him our DH and Ted Lilly could make a great long relief guy. Jesus, can there be some kind of level playing field? God forbid someone struggles.
How much do you want to bet
that if it comes to the eighth inning today and it’s a 4-2 game, Joba is gonna be pitching? He has a little competition now. Don’t interpret it as “Joba has lost his job, he’s never pitching the eighth inning again.” I’d still expect Joba Chamberlain to be in there tonight in a close game.
He hasn’t exactly deserved to keep his job over the last few appearances, but the job is still his to lose, and I don’t think he’s fully lost it yet.
Happy Birthday A-Rod! Now please hit #600 already.
Robertson has been dirty, though.
I’d still leave Joba in the 8th inning spot and use Robertson in the 7th.
"Winning is the most important thing in my life, after breathing. Breathing first, winning next." -George Michael Steinbrenner III
by Chris McKeown on Jul 27, 2010 10:03 AM EDT up reply actions
why can't all the starters
pitch into the 8th and save Girardi these bullpen worries? Starters should go 8, Mo for the 9th unless it’s a ginormous lead.
/sarcasm
CC should pitch 200 pitches if necessary!
"Winning is the most important thing in my life, after breathing. Breathing first, winning next." -George Michael Steinbrenner III
by Chris McKeown on Jul 27, 2010 10:09 AM EDT up reply actions
i agree
though switching them up from time to time would probably be a good idea.
Regardless, for whatever reason, relievers can’t pitch back to back days anymore, so sometimes it’s going to be Robertson and sometimes it’ll be Joba, and sometimes it’ll be Gaudin when Girardi wants to wave a white flag.
After his last apperance you cant bring him into a one run lead on the road
Joba doesn’t have a short memory like say Rivera, I think Joba kinda stews on his mistakes and I honestly think hes afraid of contact.
Yes
Joba is waaay too emotional to be an effective reliever. I think he gets gun-shy after a shellacking. Almost like he has confidence issues. To be fair though, he has been grossly over-hyped by the Yankees and probably adds to the pressure of coming into a crucial spot in a game.
CHOP IS ON THE BLOCK
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/rumors/post/Yankees-Chan-Ho-Park-on-trading-block?urn=mlb-258394
"Winning is the most important thing in my life, after breathing. Breathing first, winning next." -George Michael Steinbrenner III
Haha CHOP
We probably couldnt trade CHOP for Olly Perez right now
Geez
I bet Cash’ phone is ringing off the hook now?
"I felt completely out of whack... Once again, I didn’t give our team a chance out of the gate."..
I am Allan James Burnett, and I approve this message.
by Great Gatsby on Jul 27, 2010 10:14 AM EDT up reply actions
We could trade him for a bag of balls...
Maybe…?
"Winning is the most important thing in my life, after breathing. Breathing first, winning next." -George Michael Steinbrenner III
by Chris McKeown on Jul 27, 2010 10:15 AM EDT up reply actions
Not sure
they could get that, lol. No one will trade for him, they will wait until eventually Yanks DFA him. Then it is low risk, low investment for another team.
"I felt completely out of whack... Once again, I didn’t give our team a chance out of the gate."..
I am Allan James Burnett, and I approve this message.
by Great Gatsby on Jul 27, 2010 11:16 AM EDT up reply actions
Boo!
I don’t want us trading anybody at this point. Anybody we’re actually willing to trade is at low value, and unless we’re including CHoP in a high prospects deal, I doubt anybody is mildly interested in him.
CHoP and Joba have been awful, that’s pretty obvious, but I still think there is something to be had from both of them. Don’t use CHoP unless its a comfortable lead or a losing blowout, see how he does. I just don’t think we’d be getting anything for CHoP straight up.
"Is this the real life? Is this just fantasy?"
by Gelatin on Jul 27, 2010 10:28 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
He's a waste in the bullpen
He just doesn’t have it anymore. He can’t help in the playoffs in any way..
"Winning is the most important thing in my life, after breathing. Breathing first, winning next." -George Michael Steinbrenner III
by Chris McKeown on Jul 27, 2010 10:29 AM EDT up reply actions
He's got two months before October.
If CHoP is traded for a better quality and consistent reliever, great, more power to us. I don’t think that’s happening.
I hate seeing prospects go for a reliever, and if we’re planning on trading for one, and CHoP is our bait, you can bet on there being prospects dealt aswell. I just don’t think we’d use CHoP for bait for anything but a reliever, if I’m wrong, than maybe we’re trying for something bigger. Who knows.
I still think we should work with what we have. We gave D-Rob time. Some are giving Joba his time. I think we should keep CHoP.
"Is this the real life? Is this just fantasy?"
by Gelatin on Jul 27, 2010 10:38 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Gave D-Rob time? When?
He was bad for a month… not 4 months.
"Winning is the most important thing in my life, after breathing. Breathing first, winning next." -George Michael Steinbrenner III
by Chris McKeown on Jul 27, 2010 11:00 AM EDT up reply actions
Maybe we can get a 37th round pick?
"Young men, I have no doubt that you're gonna do well today. But I have 1 favor to ask of you... SAVE JIMMY JOHNSON'S ASS FOR ME!" Lou Holtz
by TheRealSlimShady on Jul 27, 2010 11:17 AM EDT up reply actions
I just said that because he’s 37.
"Young men, I have no doubt that you're gonna do well today. But I have 1 favor to ask of you... SAVE JIMMY JOHNSON'S ASS FOR ME!" Lou Holtz
by TheRealSlimShady on Jul 27, 2010 3:12 PM EDT up reply actions
I do not care how bad it sucks
you do not give up and get rid of a HO Park in the bullpen. My life is over,shit
WHERE ARE MY DENTURES? The Police never think it's as is funny as you do. My revolver shoots a big load?
by cashman bashman on Jul 27, 2010 3:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Finally
Someone on PSA points out Joba’s coddling by the Yankees. This might be the kick in the ass Joba needs to get back on track. If not, a stint at Scranton might be in order. If this is the guy who will succeed Mo, we are in serious trouble. Granted, no one will ever be as good as Mo but Joba’s psyche is too fragile to be a closer.
Joba has only pitched in back-to-back games 7 times this year.
So not pitching last night wasn’t really freaking unusual or something.
Joba
It’s time for Joba to grow up. You can just look at his face and his body language before he even throws a pitch and know that he is not in the proper frame of mind to win.
Granted the Yankees have not handled him as best as they could of over the past few years. On the other hand he is pitching in the major leagues and for the Yankees and how many other pitchers would give anything for the opportunities that the Yankees have given him.
Where is the confident, nasty, energized bull that we saw in 2007. This empty shell of a man is very tough to watch. Some guys just don’t have the guts to pitch with the yankees or in the bigs and as much as I hate to say it, Joba looks like one of them.
Man up or find yourself pitching somewhere else!
Does anyone remember 2009, when Joba started?
At about this time last year, before the Yankees “baseball people” began screwing with Joba – skipping starts, limiting innings, not telling him when he would pitch next – Joba was pitching pretty well.
Through 101 games, he was 7-2 and his ERA was 3.58. That’s well above average, and I dare say that the Yankees would welcome that kind of pitcher to their rotation.
So, what’s gone wrong since? Is it all Joba’s fault? Don’t the Yankees bear some responsibility for what they’ve done to Joba’s psyche? A pitcher is made up of a lot more than a strong arm. As frustrated as I am by Joba, I think we’re all forgetting that he has pitched well in the past. And might very well do so in the future, if he can have the right guidance.
Its not so much the Yankees handling of him (happens all around the league and countless pitchers – CJ Wilson, Derek Lowe, Adam Wainwright and Brandon Morrow are a few that come to mind- work through it no problem) as it is just something to do with him.
This sort of thing happens around the league too much for it to be just the Yankees. We’re the Yankees, and of course there has to be a “Joba Rules” thing. It happens everywhere, but since we’re Yanks fans, just not as in tuned to it.
Maybe he took the handling the wrong way. Maybe he doesn’t have a great work ethic.
Maybe its not so much that they were screwing with his role, as much as they screwed with his mechanics.
I wonder if there’s video out there comparing his 2007-08 mechanics vs. his mechanics now. Cuz consistency in the zone is his issue, which helps command and his deceptiveness as well. There’s no doubt he’s not as explosive as he was back then, whether its his fastball or slider.
Also that sort of strength allows you to command the fastball as well if you’re in tune with your mechanics.
Go New York Go!
by FreeBradshaw on Jul 27, 2010 12:15 PM EDT up reply actions
that could be.
probably in his head and why the mechanics may be altered.
Go New York Go!
by FreeBradshaw on Jul 27, 2010 12:30 PM EDT up reply actions
I think after the injury he was told or even made his mind up to back off his velocity
Thinking I could get hurt and miss out on my payday. Probably thought he was good enough at 85% if everyone was so unmatched before the injury. Now he just can’t find whatever mechanics and mental mindsight he had. People change and as we all know young men change everytime they shave. Maybe his wife needs to put him out on his ass to get the pissed off back?
WHERE ARE MY DENTURES? The Police never think it's as is funny as you do. My revolver shoots a big load?
by cashman bashman on Jul 27, 2010 3:57 PM EDT up reply actions
I think you're right
He’s clearly not the same pitcher (thrower?) that he was before the injury.
However, I’m not sure that explains what has happened over the last calendar year.
Unless, of course, there is another injury. It’s amazing what athletes will hide in order to keep their spot on the roster.
by HilltopPark on Jul 27, 2010 12:57 PM EDT up reply actions
So you entirely discount the fragility and delicacy of throwing ~180 innings (as he would have if not limited) which is an actually physically straining event, with a well chronicled past of injuring people, but you jump all aboard some phantom idea that he’s “mentally fragile?”
So, you can take a young pitcher, and have them throw and throw and throw as many times as you want and he’ll be totally fine, he’ll just “tough it out”, but if you ask him to switch to a different inning of the game HE COMPLETELY LOSES HIS MIND.
This is just so remarkably nonsensical.
Questions or thoughts? Email me at duggan2423(at)gmail(dot)com
Joba looked better than Greinke did last night
Can’t remember the last time Cy Young pitched that way in the first inning of a game.
I wish Girardi actually was smart enough to play matchups instead of just having an “8th inning guy” that he does to no matter what.
Questions or thoughts? Email me at duggan2423(at)gmail(dot)com
FYP….look at CHoP’s splits this year. He should never face another RHB again for the rest of the year if he is not getting DFA’d.
by Scooby Snacks on Jul 27, 2010 2:50 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Leave the HO Park alone, it is nostalgic
WHERE ARE MY DENTURES? The Police never think it's as is funny as you do. My revolver shoots a big load?
by cashman bashman on Jul 27, 2010 4:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Isn't playing
“matchups” going by" teh book", which you complain about when Girardi does so?
"I felt completely out of whack... Once again, I didn’t give our team a chance out of the gate."..
I am Allan James Burnett, and I approve this message.
by Great Gatsby on Jul 27, 2010 4:08 PM EDT up reply actions
No, the book is having a bunch of stupid rules like “it’s the 8th inning, so it has to be pitcher X in the game” or “this guy is a lefty, so I have to bring in a lefty.”
What I want is for him to not limit himself with stupid rules like that, and put in the best pitcher to do the job.
Questions or thoughts? Email me at duggan2423(at)gmail(dot)com
Blame
Tony LaRussa then, he got the ball rolling, with this current bullpen, doing the best he can.
"I felt completely out of whack... Once again, I didn’t give our team a chance out of the gate."..
I am Allan James Burnett, and I approve this message.
by Great Gatsby on Jul 27, 2010 4:20 PM EDT up reply actions
id rather not say anything or someone will just put me in agay joba joke again
QUITTER'S PEOPLE UNITED # 3
win/loss records do not matter when you have a magnificent bastard
"If my players don't start producing there'll be more fireworks around here by the Fourth of July than anyone can imagine." The Boss (1982)
"The next time you drive me to the wall, I'll throw you over it."
"What do you mean try? If I want to fire you, I'll fire you." (on martin)
I Think
The pen issue will sort itself. If there was anything to be learned from last year was that our regular season bullpen savior last year folded under October lights while the hero of the postseason not named ardo was a guy who posted an above 9 ERA.
If we keep the same bullpen into October, I GUARANTEE you all that CHOP and Joba will come clutch.
by Thextreme71 on Jul 27, 2010 2:36 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
I am sorry
I don’t wanna see CHOP anywhere near the post season and if he is definetley not in anything close to a close game. Like if we were by 23 runs in the 9th, I’d still be nervous.
oh jokes?
The only Jobas better at than blowing games is blowing breathalizers OHHH
but seriously its time to take step back and just focus on getting him right. Hes not traded, hes not DFA’d and hes not in the minors, therefor they still think he can be effective. Lets be honest. If he does skate by until the post season and is lights out, no one is going to give a shit about his regular season ERA. For now, he should not be in the 8th, every pitcher struggles. The way this guy has been juggled back and forth, they’re gunna be begging Mariano Rivera to pitch for 2 more years at the end of this season. Meanwhile if they just saw what they had in 07 and took it for what it was worth, Rivera would probably be handing this job off to Joba next year.
All I know is that other teams would KILL to have this problem over their many other problems.
I think we’ll be fine.
"WHO WOULD LEAD?! THE CLOWN?!"
by I'mGivingYouARaise on Jul 27, 2010 2:46 PM EDT reply actions
Hah
Thats true, but just because the Mets are too dumb to relieze they need to make a trade doesn’t mean we cant adress the problems we have with our team.
Silly IGYAR, someone has to be thrown under the bus always.
It’s the Yankee way!
by WhatwouldJeterdo on Jul 27, 2010 3:13 PM EDT up reply actions
maybe.
or it could be 15-14.
Big, small, medium, midget…Joba pitches the 8th tonight.
Go New York Go!
by FreeBradshaw on Jul 27, 2010 5:10 PM EDT up reply actions
The minors
Why the heck wont they send Joba down…….it wont hurt his ego,,,,what the hell is goin on. He is terrible,,,,,,,,send him down ;;;;or get rid of him,,,hes mental…………..
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