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Dan Haren trade analysis

I posted this on BtB, but figured I'd put it here as well since it affects Yankee Universe.

In what will be the biggest news of the day (and possibly the week) the Los Angeles Angels have traded for Dan Haren. The Angels seemingly jumped in out of nowhere to get this deal done when the favorites were the Yankees, Tigers, and Phillies. So they must have put together some amazing package considering they wanted Joba Chamberlain from New York and Andrew Oliver from Detroit, right? Wrong.

In return for the annual Cy Young candidate, the Arizona Diamondbacks will be receiving Joe Saunders, prospects Rafael Rodriguez and Patrick Corbin, as well as a player to be named later.

Yeah, dumb. A well below average pitcher, a minor league RELIEF PITCHER, and a prospect who ranked #22 in the Angels system prior to the season. For Dan Haren.

Star-divide

Apparently the 29 year old Joe Saunders and a relief pitcher are more attractive than a 24 year old Joba Chamberlain and Manny Banuelos, a top ten prospect in the Yankees system. Even if the Yankees didn’t want to give up those two, Ivan Nova and Zach McAllister are better prospects than Patrick Corbin and Rafael Rodriguez.

I’m not going to delve too much into each player involved, but just on a player to player comparison, there is no comparison. Joe Saunders or Joba Chamberlain? Give me Joba every time. I know he is a reliever (right now) and has been a big let down. But he is more talented than Saunders. He is five years younger than Saunders. He has more cost-controlled seasons and is cheaper than Saunders. He has more potential than Saunders. As a relief pitcher who has thrown 1/3 the innings of Saunders in 2010, Joba has a better WAR.

But let’s say New York truly wouldn’t give Joba up. Let’s look at Ivan Nova and Zach McAllister instead. Neither is a stud prospect, but both are currently in AAA and close to ML ready, if not already. They don’t have much upside, but they should at least be better than Joe Saunders- and they would be under control for a combined twelve seasons, compared to two for Saunders.

As for the rest of the deal- Rafael Rodriguez? Really? A 26 year old RELIEF PITCHER? That guy is gonna be pretty damn valuable, huh Arizona. A relief pitcher for Dan Haren. Just cracks me up. He has been pretty damn good in the PCL, a huge hitters league, but relief pitchers offer so little value and are so unpredictable year to year. Unless he is the next Mariano, I doubt he’ll even be a D-Back in the long term (the same goes for Saunders).

Patrick Corbin could be a decent player. His upside is the middle to end of the rotation. He is a good enough prospect for ‘Zona to take on- assuming the other players in the deal are better. But they aren’t. He is in A ball right now, so he is still far away. You can read a scouting report on him here. Apparently he profiles a lot like Joe Saunders. Oh boy.

Not too long ago I addressed a potential Dan Haren trade to New York and broke down Haren’s value. I said he would bring a team about $23.4mil in value. So how did Arizona make out? Well, they got Joe Saunders for the next two seasons. Let’s say he is 1.5 WAR in 2011 and 2012. With a market rate of $4.4mil per win, that would be worth $13.2mil. But they need to pay him about $1mil this season plus 2011 and 2012. Using the 40/60/80 arbitration scale, he would make about $5.9mil in 2011 and $10.6mil in 2012. That’s a total of $17.5mil. Subtract that from his $13.2mil in value and you get -$4.3mil. Eeesh- ‘Zona is in the red right now. I don’t believe Rafael Rodriguez would be a top 100 pitching prospect, but I’ll be generous and say he is a B level prospect even though he is 26 and a relief pitcher. A B level pitching prospect is worth $7.3mil. While Patrick Corbin isn’t even a top ten pitching prospect in the Angels system, I’ll be generous again and label him a top 76-100 pitching prospect. That’s worth $9.8mil. So let’s add it all up! -$4.3mil + $7.3mil + $9.8mil = $12.8mil.

Josh Byrnes, where art thou? What a pathetic trade from Arizona’s point of view. Not only did they take the worst offer on the table, but they didn’t get anywhere near fair value in return. Ouch.

From the Angels point of view, what a steal. Whether the trade helps them in 2010 or not- and I doubt it will since they are too far behind in my estimation- a steal is a steal. Plus, it sets them up to be a pretty damn good team in 2011 depending on their off-season. Their rotation now features Jered Weaver, Dan Haren, Joel Piniero, and Ervin Santana. In the off-season I could easily see them signing Javy Vazquez on a 1/8 or 2/16 type deal to give them a pretty dominant rotation. Early rumors are they will chase Carl Crawford as well. If they do that, with their projected 2011 rotation, they could pry the AL West crown back from the Rangers.

As for the Yanks, they walk out losers again. They were a mere minutes- no, seconds- away from landing the best pitcher going in the AL in the form of Cliff Lee. Now they went into the Haren talks as favorites again and walked away empty-handed. If the D-Backs were taking a shitty package like that, I would have loved to have Haren. However, I’m not overly disappointed. I will be though, if the Yankees truly desire SP right now. I DO NOT want Roy Oswalt or Ted Lilly. This non-trade better not push the Yanks in that direction. Andy is supposed to be back sooner than expected, so I would wait it out and install Ivan Nova into the rotation.

I want to end this post by saying: LOL, Arizona D-Backs GM fail. The PTBNL better be Kendry Morales or Jered Weaver, because when we look back on this trade in a decade, it might just be one of the worst trades in that time span.

Honestly, Arizona was better off keeping Haren. I know they want to re-build, but he is a top 10 NL pitcher with an affordable contract. When you rebuild, he’s the player you keep. They have core talent and aren’t far away, so they don’t need a fire sale. Whatever pieces they get from Kelly Johnson or Adam LaRoche could be enough to get them back on track. But when they do trade those other two players, there is no way they can get any value in return. Teams will look at this trade and laugh if Arizona even asks for a decent prospect. And if they really HAD to trade him, I can’t believe they didn’t think they could do better. I mean, an AS level pitcher, in his prime, with an affordable contract, under team control for 2-3 more seasons. The fact the other team would control him beyond 2010 should instantly bump up his value. But I guess not.

LOL ‘Zona.

 

 

 

 

 

EDIT: The fact that Cashman could have had Haren if he included Joba shows how much Cashman values Chamberlain, which is reasonable. But what it really tells me is that he sees Joba as a SP still. If he thought of him as a RP going forward, there is no way to hold onto him when you can get Dan Haren. We all know, Cash included, that SP>RP, especially when that SP is Dan Haren. But if you see Joba as a SP, that changes things.

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excellent analysis

as to why Cashman values Chamberlian so much? i have no idea, all the talent in the world but the results? so-so. all the Joba defenders go back to “that game in 08 in Boston, last year in Cleveland blah blah he can be dominant.” Haren makes a dozen or so of those kind of starts each year

by Brian5517209 on Jul 25, 2010 8:05 PM EDT reply actions  

pretty nice write up

and if those prospects they got are seriously that weak, than LOL to arizona. but not good cause the halos will be very solid next season

I believe in the Church of Baseball

by Frank Campagnola on Jul 25, 2010 8:06 PM EDT reply actions  

Commenter at HH on the trade:
For them its huge

We as a well run club, do not have to worry about salary issues. We just want good/great players. If we can exploit another teams problems with money, all the better ;-)

Cheers Arte!

Did I miss something, or are Angels fans proud of being like the Yankees?

by YankeesRock on Jul 25, 2010 9:04 PM EDT reply actions  

they're turning into Red Sox fans....

doing what the Yankees do, then bash the Yankees for doing that.

Go New York Go!

by FreeBradshaw on Jul 25, 2010 9:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

lol, yeah. I love how the Red Sox fans complain about our 200mil payroll, but their team has like a 180 mil payroll.

by Wraithpk on Jul 25, 2010 11:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

PTBNL

the PTBNL is reported to be Tyler Skaggs (he signed in August last year and has to wait a year to be traded).

Skaggs certainly puts this over what we were offering. He is certianly too good to ignore.

by sjkqw on Jul 25, 2010 9:26 PM EDT reply actions  

skaggs does have good upside

but the package is not better.

any better that includes saunders as the “main” piece without including a top level prospect for an ace pitcher isnt that good.

skagg is probably a better prospect than nova or zac mac, but id take that package over taking saunders and having to pay him a lot of money through arbitration.

RU RAH RAH
RU RAH RAH

by Discofever on Jul 25, 2010 9:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

This is on a completely unrelated note… but does anyone know when the mlb extra innings free trial ends????

by i says on Jul 25, 2010 9:28 PM EDT reply actions  

this trade is LOL worthy

What a steal for the angels…but this just means we’ll focus on lee this off season. Had we gotten haren and his 12 mil. we would have had to cut back to get Lee b/c of arbitration for hughes and joba and inc salary for guys like gardner, swish,grandy etc. And off course we have a limit now assuming. So if we added haren and his 12 mil we’ll need to find a way to get that 20+ mil for lee somewhere else.

On a side note Haren in NY will be like what Hughes in NY now is like…a ton of hrs. Hughes has a lower HR rate and a lower K rate but he’s very much like haren for me. (flyball + strike out pitcher) still what the yanks offered to zona was at least close to be a decent deal for zona…this deal is just hilarious.

by lololol on Jul 25, 2010 10:59 PM EDT reply actions  

I was just kinda confused when I saw the Angels traded for him. I don’t think they’re gunna catch the Rangers this year, even with him. I guess it gives them a solid core for next year, though. Glad he didn’t go to a contending team. If the Rangers got Lee and Haren, I’d be a bit worried about them.

by Wraithpk on Jul 25, 2010 11:05 PM EDT reply actions  

trout has at least a year and a half.

he was only called up to high A ball 2 weeks ago.

I believe in the Church of Baseball

by Frank Campagnola on Jul 26, 2010 11:33 AM EDT up reply actions  

D-Backs got totally fleeced.

Questions or thoughts? Email me at duggan2423(at)gmail(dot)com

by Lord Duggan on Jul 25, 2010 11:27 PM EDT reply actions  

I'm hoping this trade is as great a 'steal' as everyone says it is.

Haren’s numbers have not been as good this year as they have been in previous years, and, historically, his numbers are lower after the All Star break. Addtionally, when you compare Haren’s numbers this year with Saunder’s, there really is not that much difference. Is Haren the better pitcher? Of course. But I’m not ready to celebrate just yet. The stange thing is I can see this as a win for the Angels, but what were the DBacks thinking?

by agent_99 on Jul 26, 2010 1:57 AM EDT reply actions  

Haren is one year removed from a cy young year

Saunder has been consistently below avg. The angels gave up a B/C prospect and a D prospect and a PTBNL. Arizona GM is completely stupid so the angel got away with a steal for an Ace that is under contract for 3 years and undervalued.

by lololol on Jul 26, 2010 3:03 AM EDT up reply actions  

Wasn't the player to be named ranked #8 in the Angels' minor league system?

"Winning is the most important thing in my life, after breathing. Breathing first, winning next." -George Michael Steinbrenner III

by Chris McKeown on Jul 26, 2010 9:38 AM EDT reply actions  

The Rangers haven't won any AL West crown yet that needs to be pryed back.

If you assume such things as pennant wins are givens, then you don’t know much about how baseball works. But then as Yankee fans you may be inclined to believe they can be bought.

I hate the Texas Rangers

by 44FAN on Jul 26, 2010 12:41 PM EDT reply actions  

The Rangers haven't bought anything??

Yankees all day.

"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring." ~Rogers Hornsby

"If you're not doing it right, you're doing it wrong. And there's no in between." ~Mark "Lunch" McKenzie

by Onishadow14 on Jul 26, 2010 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

well as Angels fans

you wouldn’t happen to be closet Red Sox fans thinking that you’re not buying players then ridiculing the Yanks and their fans…right?

Why would you do that? Just like the Red Sox, you’re the little engine that could, composed of nothing but grit, heart, determination, steroids, and a gigantic payroll….and hypocrites that blame the Yankees for forcing you to do it.

Go New York Go!

by FreeBradshaw on Jul 26, 2010 2:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

And the author of the fanpost is just being realistic

The Angels have a negative run differential (their Pythag suggests that they should be 49-52, not the other way around), and the Rangers are not exactly the 2007 Mets.

by YankeesRock on Jul 26, 2010 4:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

EDIT: The fact that Cashman could have had Haren if he included Joba shows how much Cashman values Chamberlain,

Is this really a fact? Where was it reported?

Strikeouts are boring- Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.

by CasanovaWong on Jul 26, 2010 12:42 PM EDT reply actions  

sorry i used "fact", bad diction...

but it essentially was considering we know every reporter said cashman not including joba is what held up the deal.

RU RAH RAH
RU RAH RAH

by Discofever on Jul 26, 2010 3:27 PM EDT reply actions  

What held up the deal was not wanting to include Joba, Noesi, Betances and McAllister

It’s not like AZ called Cash and said we’ll give you Haren for Chamberlain. THe deal was held up because Zona asked for the moon AND the stars. Instead they settled for Joe Freaking Saunders and a couple of A ballers.

Strikeouts are boring- Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.

by CasanovaWong on Jul 26, 2010 4:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

chamberlain was the head of the deal

and i never heard an offer where zona wanted ALL of those prospects. those were just the prospects they wanted the yankees to put forward, whether it be 1 of them, 2 of them or all of them.

RU RAH RAH
RU RAH RAH

by Discofever on Jul 26, 2010 5:39 PM EDT reply actions  

Hmm.

Lets see how Haren’s injury is.

Section 203 Row 15 Seat 1

by jramey on Jul 27, 2010 12:10 AM EDT reply actions  

lol

 HH just leapt off a building in unison

"Winning is the most important thing in my life, after breathing. Breathing first, winning next." -George Michael Steinbrenner III

by Chris McKeown on Jul 27, 2010 9:49 AM EDT up reply actions  

Them in pain makes me smile

not the whole fanbase, just those assholes over there

Section 203 Row 15 Seat 1

by jramey on Jul 27, 2010 11:20 AM EDT up reply actions  

Agreed

"Winning is the most important thing in my life, after breathing. Breathing first, winning next." -George Michael Steinbrenner III

by Chris McKeown on Jul 27, 2010 6:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

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