A Few Final Thoughts On Mitre/Nova/Ineffective Relief
by Brandon C. on Jul 21, 2010 6:43 PM EDT
in New York Yankees Analysis
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There have been many pieces posted here at Pinstripe Alley about the 5th starter, now that Andy Pettitte is injured. The choices seem split. Some want a trade, some want Mitre, some want Nova, and some want Swisher. This will be the final piece I write about the 5th starter until Saturday, I promise.
The main point of this piece? Ivan Nova belongs in the MLB, whether it is as a reliever, or as a starter. The fact that the Yankees are reluctant to add him, like they were with Albaladejo, because Gaudin and Moseley don't have options is both ludicrous and surprising to me.
I would think a team like the Yankees would realize that keeping a very bad pitcher (Gaudin) on the roster just because he might go to another team if they get rid of him is bone-headed.
Like Travis showed us, Ivan Nova had his best performance in AAA recently. How should the Yankees reward him? A call up to the MLB, and the 5th starters role.
Kuri brought to our attention that the 5th starter can face very easy lineups if the cards are played right. What a good way for Nova to start his MLB career. Nova can start until Pettitte is off the DL, then can either stay in the rotation (if another pitcher is injured), go to the bullpen, or go back to the minors.
Sergio Mitre is needed in the bullpen. That is a fact at this point. Mitre, with his 2.88 ERA, would be a solid long relief option that can save the Yankees from getting blown out in games that the starter doesn't go deep. Gaudin is an automatic white flag and Moseley is an unknown at this point.
Mitre also stands a very good chance of getting injured himself if he is in the rotation. Having started last in 2009, coming off an injury, and having rehabbed as a reliever, what makes anyone think it's either a good or even right thing to throw Mitre into the rotation? In Mitre's final rehab start he threw 73 pitches, 48 for strikes. Ivan Nova? 97 pitches, 62 for strikes.
The fact of the matter is that Sergio Mitre is starting on Saturday. Ivan Nova won't likely be called up anytime soon and the Yankees will continue with their mess of a bullpen. Does it make that much of a difference? In a close race for the AL East and the Wild Card, possibly, but you never know. Hopefully the pitchers can step up.
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To be fair
The bullpen, shaky at best, did it’s job tonight.
"WHO WOULD LEAD?! THE CLOWN?!"
by I'mGivingYouARaise on Jul 21, 2010 6:48 PM EDT reply actions
It did
Something surprised me when I wrote this…I was looking at Joba’s game log and he saved 2 games in a row earlier and had a 2.16 ERA on May 16
Writer for Pinstripe Alley, MLB Daily Dish
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Not without Joba giving up a run
"Winning is the most important thing in my life, after breathing. Breathing first, winning next." -George Michael Steinbrenner III
by Chris McKeown on Jul 21, 2010 10:12 PM EDT up reply actions
Although
After his walk in his first inning of work, the Yanks put some more runs on the board and he was a strike machine. I don’t have a problem with him surrendering a run with a 5 run lead, as long as he’s not putting guys on base via the BB.
by NumberSeven on Jul 21, 2010 10:58 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm not bashing him
Just good that the game wasn’t close or else he would be getting mauled today
"Winning is the most important thing in my life, after breathing. Breathing first, winning next." -George Michael Steinbrenner III
by Chris McKeown on Jul 22, 2010 10:37 AM EDT up reply actions
I don't like that Mitre is a starter now, either.
But I think its best to let Nova stay in AAA and see how Mitre does in a start or 2, than if a move is need, make it.
Anybody else hear anything about this Werth for a SP (apparently Oswalt, of all people)?
"Is this the real life? Is this just fantasy?"
by Gelatin on Jul 21, 2010 6:50 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
Then who starts if Mitre and Nova both don't?
I think it’s a rumored 3 team deal or two separate deals
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Sorry, didn't really clear that up...
If Mitre does awful in a start or two, I think you’re right, its time to give Nova a go.
And I heard its a 3 way deal between Philly-Tampa-Houston, Werth to Tampa ,Oswalt to Philly, and I don’t know who goes to Houston.
I think its all rumors though, nothing is set yet.
"Is this the real life? Is this just fantasy?"
by Gelatin on Jul 21, 2010 6:55 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Yeah, that's what I was saying about the trade
Not sure if it was a three team trade or two separate trades being rumored
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The problem with that is that Mitre still needs to be stretched out...
and the deep is in deeper doodoo if he ends up on the DL again. I think they need to take good care of him — it’s only July and his arm needs to be there and healthy in September and October.
BTW…I love the Swish voters. I’ll admit, if the only options were Gaudin or Swish, i’d definitely vote for Swish. I think his just being on the mound would distract hitters LOL !!
"...and, Jedi is famous!"
What does this mean?
"Is this the real life? Is this just fantasy?"
by Gelatin on Jul 21, 2010 6:58 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Haha. The picture and caption... up there ^^^
by CAyankeesfan on Jul 21, 2010 7:01 PM EDT up reply actions
Damn, can't believe I missed that.
Hah, funny picture!
"Is this the real life? Is this just fantasy?"
by Gelatin on Jul 21, 2010 7:02 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
::bows::
Thank you, CA.
And I voted for Swisher. Tough to argue against a 0.00 career ERA
Photoshop Gallery: http://img704.imageshack.us/g/ggbg.jpg/
by Jedi Master A-Rod on Jul 21, 2010 7:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Thank you for the picture!
Hope you don’t mind me using it!
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i agree brandon
nova is pitching well, and deserves the call up. i think its also a very fair point to say mitre could be at risk of injury as well.
nova deserves the spot. let him have it. whats with this team and not letting their young AAA starters have their chance, especially if they can set it up so that he doesnt have to face a quality offense?
I believe in the Church of Baseball
by Frank Campagnola on Jul 21, 2010 7:04 PM EDT reply actions
I don't see what the point in leaving him in AAA is
Are they showcasing him for other teams in the minors or something? He has nothing left to prove really
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Agree 100%
Without Aceves, Mitre is best used in long relief, Gaudin clearly has not done the job and should be released, and Nova should be given the 5th SP spot until Andy gets back or proves he can’t do it… then go to Moseley.
by YANKEES FOREVER on Jul 22, 2010 10:45 AM EDT up reply actions
When was the last time the Yankees brought someone up for a debut?
I don’t know why the Yankees are so averse to bringing one of these guys up for a start, they’ve been like this for years now. Damn, just give one of ‘em a shot, for Christ’s sake.
Chase Wright
Darrell Rasner, Tyler Clippard…I foget the other one.
But Nova is not quite in the Hughes or Joba realm. Probably better then the Wright’s and Clippard’s of the world, but still…they have a bit of reason to avoid these folk.
Go New York Go!
by FreeBradshaw on Jul 22, 2010 3:41 PM EDT up reply actions
Remember when Wright gave up 4 homeruns in a row?
"Winning is the most important thing in my life, after breathing. Breathing first, winning next." -George Michael Steinbrenner III
by Chris McKeown on Jul 22, 2010 3:43 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh another note
If Cashman keeps citing Mitre’s success last year or the fact that he has been a starter…that means nothing. This is a new year and Mitre was not prepared to start
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Eh...
No problem with going with Mitre. That game’s designed to be one that’s pieced together anyway, and its probably a better bet to do that.
I don’t see a problem if they let Mitre start on Saturday and see what Nova does in his next start. If he backs it up, and Mitre stinks it up…then there’s plenty reason to call up Nova.
Right now, I don’t see why Nova should get start over Mitre.
Go New York Go!
because mitre was not prepared to start.
the guy has had tommy john surgery and even during his rehab stint he didnt prepare as a starter. im just sketchy about it. why not give the kid a shot? hes pitching well
I believe in the Church of Baseball
by Frank Campagnola on Jul 21, 2010 7:35 PM EDT up reply actions
What does Nova have left to prove?
Mitre struggled in AAA even
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I'd like to see Nova up on the big squad
and yea, he’s done proving himself at AAA. But what has he done to earn it over Mitre?
I don’t see a problem with this Saturday. But I hope they have Nova in mind in the future, either in the pen as a the shiny prospect in teh pen, or as the 5th starter if Mitre implodes.
Go New York Go!
by FreeBradshaw on Jul 21, 2010 8:31 PM EDT up reply actions
On Mitre starting or Nova starting
It’s not a matter of who’s better to me it’s who’s more prepared. Would you rather have a starter who can go at most 5 innings or one that can go for as long as needed pending results?
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I don't think Nova or Mitre is better prepared to go longer then the other in the game.
Nova may be stretched out, but that’s in AAA. Mitre can give 80-90 pitches and go 4-5, maybe 6.
Go New York Go!
by FreeBradshaw on Jul 21, 2010 8:51 PM EDT up reply actions
His high in AAA was 73
Should be interesting to see who gets shipped out on Saturday and how quickly Mitre can get through innings
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Gaudin
goes bye bye.
"I felt completely out of whack... Once again, I didn’t give our team a chance out of the gate."..
I am Allan James Burnett, and I approve this message.
by Great Gatsby on Jul 22, 2010 9:08 AM EDT up reply actions
Good
"Winning is the most important thing in my life, after breathing. Breathing first, winning next." -George Michael Steinbrenner III
by Chris McKeown on Jul 22, 2010 10:37 AM EDT up reply actions
Eh, I trust Mitre more than Nova.
There isn’t enough of a sample size to merit putting Nova in the rotation over Mitre. If a guy can be a better starter than someone else for you, why stick him in the bullpen?
Did you know Joe Morgan thinks Cano will win a batting title one day?
I think Nova would be the better starter
and Mitre the better reliever
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The thing is
You KNOW that Mitre can go out and give you 5 solid innings. You don’t know if Nova can do that yet. I’ll take the sure thing before a risk.
Did you know Joe Morgan thinks Cano will win a batting title one day?
You don't know Mitre can go 5 solid innings
He couldn’t go 5 solid innings in AAA
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I seem to remember
A game earlier this year where he held the powerful Minnesota Twins to just one run and 4 hits in 5 innings.
Did you know Joe Morgan thinks Cano will win a batting title one day?
I seem to remember
That was the only game this year he went 5.0 innings max. He only pitched 4+ one other time and 3+ once. Mitre couldn’t go 5 in AAA. I’m not arguing that Mitre is the worse pitcher. I’m arguing that you shouldn’t send Mitre out there without preparing him correctly first.
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He's only made 2 starts this year.
So yes, in 2 starts, he only made it to the 5th inning once. Still 50%.
Did you know Joe Morgan thinks Cano will win a batting title one day?
You're still missing the point
He got hurt. He rehabbed originally for a relief role and they just switched him and didn’t give him a chance to really be prepared for the starting role
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This poll iz a joke
i don;t seethe oswalt for Jeter + Grandy + Chop + Joba option. Makes this poll moot.
okay seriously…we should give mitre one or two starts see how he does. if he does good fine, if he is horrible…call u pnova.
Did anybody remark on Joe Morgan's idiocy today?
Did you know Joe Morgan thinks Cano will win a batting title one day?
I simply want the Yankees to stay on plan. Mitre earned this spot in the spring. If he fails go ahead and bring up Nova.
I have no need to second guess Cashman on this.
and Albaladejo had a 33.75 ERA in spring
doesn’t matter much anymore
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You said everything I was thinking
Gaudin and CHOP get DFA’d, Mitre back to the pen, Nova to the rotation. Thats how it should be.
"I'm looking at 600 as first base. I want to run right through it and use it as a platform and a spring board for more to come"- Alex Rodriguez
I get sick of talking about this
Everything you said is what they should do… why they don’t do otherwise drives me nuts
"Winning is the most important thing in my life, after breathing. Breathing first, winning next." -George Michael Steinbrenner III
by Chris McKeown on Jul 21, 2010 10:12 PM EDT up reply actions
This subject
is getting olddddd very quickly, will we see another post on Saturday? Also, major league teams don’t worry about the results during rehab starts, just getting innings in, that’s it.
"I felt completely out of whack... Once again, I didn’t give our team a chance out of the gate."..
I am Allan James Burnett, and I approve this message.
by Great Gatsby on Jul 22, 2010 9:06 AM EDT up reply actions
It's just so annoying to keep speculating when the solution seems fairly simple.
"Winning is the most important thing in my life, after breathing. Breathing first, winning next." -George Michael Steinbrenner III
by Chris McKeown on Jul 22, 2010 10:38 AM EDT up reply actions
then call up who?
You get rid of 2 pitchers, there’s no bringing them back. And its really not like they have another Joba and Hughes in Scranton. Most likely its Nova and Mosely….so what’s the point?
Go New York Go!
by FreeBradshaw on Jul 22, 2010 12:27 PM EDT up reply actions
I know this is my last comment on the situation
He couldn’t even go 5 innings in rehab
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Anyone else find it amusing that Swish has more votes in the poll than Mitre, Gaudin, and Mosely put together?
The only place I’ve been able to find any states on Swisher as a pitcher is Wikipedia, so it’s probably not worth the electricity I’m using to write this! However, according to Wikipedia, Swish has an ERA of 0.00, WHIP of 2.00, K/9 of 1, BB/9 of 1, and K/BB of 1, as well as BAA of .250. 1 inning last year is a bit of a small sample size, but I think most of those stats are better than the entire bullpen this year!
I was actually just about to comment on that
Shows either how good Swisher is or how bad they are!
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I think they should consider throwing Swisher into the 5th spot
"Winning is the most important thing in my life, after breathing. Breathing first, winning next." -George Michael Steinbrenner III
0.00 ERA!!!!!
"I'm looking at 600 as first base. I want to run right through it and use it as a platform and a spring board for more to come"- Alex Rodriguez
2.00 WHIP
ATROCIOUS DFA
"Winning is the most important thing in my life, after breathing. Breathing first, winning next." -George Michael Steinbrenner III
by Chris McKeown on Jul 22, 2010 10:38 AM EDT up reply actions
No, not really
"Winning is the most important thing in my life, after breathing. Breathing first, winning next." -George Michael Steinbrenner III
by Chris McKeown on Jul 22, 2010 10:38 AM EDT up reply actions
I thought you meant 5 spot in lineup
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lol no I love him in the 2 spot
"Winning is the most important thing in my life, after breathing. Breathing first, winning next." -George Michael Steinbrenner III
by Chris McKeown on Jul 22, 2010 3:44 PM EDT up reply actions
Reality Check
New York Yankee scouts missed a great opportunity to get Halliday or Lee(twice)—now they are paying for it because of their arrogance regarding bombers(hitters)—-instead of great pitchers….
Scouts aren't perfect
Nobody knew Halladay was gonna put up a sub-3 ERA this year! You just can’t predict baseball.
"I am a man of great mental power." ~Alfonso Soriano
by Captain_Mick on Jul 21, 2010 10:15 PM EDT up reply actions
Scouts aren't perfect???
Impossible!!
"Winning is the most important thing in my life, after breathing. Breathing first, winning next." -George Michael Steinbrenner III
by Chris McKeown on Jul 21, 2010 10:16 PM EDT up reply actions
Scouts aren't perfect, or my name isn't Hinkel P. Werbistütter III
"I am a man of great mental power." ~Alfonso Soriano
by Captain_Mick on Jul 21, 2010 10:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Halliday...that's new
Usually I see Halladay or Holliday, but anyway, why is Lee (twice?) they were not about to get him before. Oh and I see you like trading the future for the present when they can win in the present anyway
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yea...
their record really reflects it.
Really “did em in” not getting Halladay last year too.
Go New York Go!
by FreeBradshaw on Jul 21, 2010 10:30 PM EDT up reply actions
To quote Seinfeld
Jeter: “We won the World Series last year”
Costanza: /scoff "Yeah… in six games…
Did you know Joe Morgan thinks Cano will win a batting title one day?
by Andrew GM on Jul 21, 2010 11:18 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I follow the yankees for 50 years from whitey ford to present
And I love the Yankees and i have seen year after year more emphasis on hitting. Sandy Koufax showed the Yankees how great pitching always beat great hitting—always…We had a lot of players leaving that could have been used for those two pitchers—-real sad!!!
I'm sorry, would you mind elaborating a bit?
Who would you have traded for the pitchers?
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answer
those 4 players the mvp Matsui, damon, cordero(?), jaba would be good for Lee…
Who's cordero?
So you’re saying trade Matsui, Damon, Jaba, and a fake player for Lee?
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cordero
i dont remember this guys exact name who was traded—-but the yankees could have got them—vasquaz is not an american league type pitcher—does better in national league.
doing fine in the AL.....
Go New York Go!
by FreeBradshaw on Jul 21, 2010 10:41 PM EDT up reply actions
So when should they have traded Damon, the MVP Matsu, and Jaba, and Fake Cordero?
Before they hit free agency? Or after?
"I am a man of great mental power." ~Alfonso Soriano
by Captain_Mick on Jul 21, 2010 10:42 PM EDT up reply actions
Matsui and Damon are old farts...
basically DH’s and liabilities in the field at this point. They have no trade value.
Go New York Go!
by FreeBradshaw on Jul 21, 2010 10:35 PM EDT up reply actions
Don't even know the guy's name
but you are suggesting trades? Gotta the levity of PSA!
"I felt completely out of whack... Once again, I didn’t give our team a chance out of the gate."..
I am Allan James Burnett, and I approve this message.
by Great Gatsby on Jul 22, 2010 8:59 AM EDT up reply actions
they shelled out $20mill/year and $16mill/year contracts to Sabathia and Burnett last year.
and they re-upped Pettite each of the past 2 years. They also traded for Javy Vazquez.
How…exactly, are they not focused on pitching?
Go New York Go!
by FreeBradshaw on Jul 21, 2010 10:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Free you almost did it!
It’s so rare that someone spells Vazquez and Pettitte right in the same sentence. So close.
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let me explain
- Petitte is a great pitcher, but he cant pitch forever; vasquez is not that good- avg. pitcher—-burnett is getting eradict—pitching 500 ballonly pitchers on starting rotation that reflect the winning edge is sabathia, petitte, hughes, rivierra———wheres the rest——-apparently someone lost focus with no Lee or No Halliday——satisfied—-not me—-I love the yankees too much to see them miss a great opportunity on the trading blocks…
your the one saying they have more emphasis on hitting and not pitching...
I know what Pettitte, Javy (you’re wrong on that BTW), Burnett and CC are…but the reality is, they’re focusing on pitching.
Cliff Lee is gonna be available the offseason. That Pettitte can’t pitch forever is meaningless at this point, cuz he sure as hell can pitch in 2010. If he can’t pitch past 2010, they’ll get Lee.
Go New York Go!
by FreeBradshaw on Jul 21, 2010 10:59 PM EDT up reply actions
Facts
If you’re going to write a blog, be careful with the facts. You state that Mitre hasn’t started since ’09 when in fact he has started twice for the Yankees this year.
Facts
1. I wrote this on the way to dinner in a hurry.
2. This is not a blog, it’s a fan community where fans can celebrate the 27 time world champion New York Yankees!
3. Sorry, I miswrote that but it doesn’t change my opinion
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Fact
you shouldn’t be so enamored with how other people spell, when you make your share of errors as well…*whatnot, *cortesy, come to mind.
"I felt completely out of whack... Once again, I didn’t give our team a chance out of the gate."..
I am Allan James Burnett, and I approve this message.
by Great Gatsby on Jul 22, 2010 12:21 PM EDT up reply actions
When did I write whatnot or cortesy?
A. I don’t actually care when people spell wrong I just very much enjoy making fun of people.
B. Next time you make an error i’m gonna jump on it! :)
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Good
A)yesterday on whatnot
B) couple weeks ago spelling courtesy on one of your posts.
Maybe you are just joking when pointing out spelling errors, you do seem to do it often, that was my point.
"I felt completely out of whack... Once again, I didn’t give our team a chance out of the gate."..
I am Allan James Burnett, and I approve this message.
by Great Gatsby on Jul 22, 2010 4:09 PM EDT up reply actions
I can assure you I have never spelled anything wrong in my life
I guess someone hacked my account those few times. I apologize on their behalf.
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Eye tink yur corectt!
U r awesum!
"Winning is the most important thing in my life, after breathing. Breathing first, winning next." -George Michael Steinbrenner III
by Chris McKeown on Jul 22, 2010 3:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Lee and Sabathia and Pettite and Hughes
the mvp Matsui, damon, cordero(?), jaba—throwin, and cash
those 4 pitchers would be great together
those 4 players the mvp Matsui, damon, cordero(?), jaba would be good for Lee…
Go New York! Go!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!L
"We're only going to score 17 points?" - Tom Brady
"Well played, Mauer." - Guy from PS3 commercials
Now's the time to expand our lead in the AL East and work out any kinks the the system
We play back to back 4 game series against 2 of the worst teams in the AL, stating with the Royals. The only pitcher the Yankees don’t have to face is Grienke, which is awesome. Then 4 more at Cleveland (A-Rod please hit #600 on the 29th, I’ll be there).
Oh, and over the course of the next 8 games only 2 opposing pitchers have winning records, and only 2 have an ERA under 4 (the final 2 games).
I caution the posters that the complaining above is getting becoming distressingly similar to that of RedSox fans.
Mr Blob is correct that the team is about to play one of the softer stretches of the schedule, and great pitching will probably not be required over the next 10 days or so. Whether Mitre or Nova is the 5th pitcher during Pettitte’s absence is not the worst problem to have. There have been times in recent years when obviously unready players have been called up from AA because the staff was so depleted. That isn’t the case here.
I am intirgued by this fake player. How good is he? What trade value does he have? Can we conjure more like him? [I suspect that this was a reference to Montero, but damn, it’s fun to mock it].
by designatedquitter on Jul 22, 2010 10:36 AM EDT reply actions
Swisher
He has a career 0 era. Game over.
by Wraithpk on Jul 22, 2010 11:55 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
I cant stand watching Mitre pitch
It seems like he never throws a strike. BUT he does deserve to get a shot at the spot before Nova, if Mitre tanks. Give Nova a shot.
Pavano and Igawa.. the best 1-2 punch since Rum and Coke!
"Winning is the most important thing in my life, after breathing. Breathing first, winning next." -George Michael Steinbrenner III
They certainly could drive you to drink some Roman Coke...
Did you know Joe Morgan thinks Cano will win a batting title one day?
One wouldn't
drop the glass, cut his hand, and wind up on the DL, that’s the difference.
"I felt completely out of whack... Once again, I didn’t give our team a chance out of the gate."..
I am Allan James Burnett, and I approve this message.
by Great Gatsby on Jul 22, 2010 4:34 PM EDT up reply actions
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