An Open Letter to Angels Fans
Recently, the grumblings, whinings, and flat out accusations and conspiracy theories over at at our favorite Angels blog have reached an all-time high. The inferiority-complex-driven angst radiating from Halos Heaven has increased several fold over the past week or so with media coverage being devoted to the deaths of Yankee legends Bob Sheppard and George Steinbrenner and Angels fans feeling a little too much self-importance over hosting an All-Star Game that nobody watched. But more on that later. In this letter, I will address several of the absurd claims made by Angels fans at Halos Heaven about media bias, payroll, conspiracies, Steinbrenner, and various other things.
DISCLAIMER: Not all Angels fans at Halos Heaven exhibit all of the following. I am not trying to make assumptions about an entire community based on the actions of a few. That being said, the bitching is pervasive enough that it deserves to be addressed.
1. ALL-STAR SELECTION BIAS
In the days leading up to the All-Star Game, there were a great number of complaints and concerns expressed that Jered Weaver, who LEADS THE LEAGUE IN STRIKEOUTS!!!!1!1!!one!!eleven1!, would not receive an All-Star bid. Weaver, though deserving, did not do well enough in the player voting to make the team, and since the Angels already had a representative in Torii Hunter, AL manager Joe Girardi was not obligated to pick him. Angels fans immediately jumped on this as a case of EAST COAST BIAS. Let's observe Joe's five pitching selections (ignoring the two positional players because there's only a certain number of spots for each position). Two of them (Carmona and Soria) were selected as their team's only representative. Trevor Cahill was certainly deserving as he's pitched excellently so far this season, as has Matt Thornton, who struck out around 12 batters per 9 innings during the first half and was great in relief for the White Sox. The lone spot that could have gone to Weaver was instead given to C.C. Sabathia. While, admittedly, Weaver probably deserved to go more than Sabathia, it would hardly have been "one of the ALL TIME WORST SNUBS" in the history of the All-Star Game.
Luckily for Weaver, Angels fans, and me (because I was tired of the bitching), Joe picked Weaver to replace Cahill, who pitched on Sunday. Weaver also pitched on Sunday, so he was also replaced by Andrew Bailey of the Athletics. The real loser in all of this, though, is Felix Hernandez, who put up a better first half than Weaver according to WAR, but still missed out on the All-Star Game. The reason? Felix threw over 120 pitches on Saturday, so Joe couldn't pick him and replace him immediately like he did with Weaver, nor could Felix actually pitch in the game if he was picked. Joe can't afford to waste a roster spot, though, and it's considered bad form to wear out other teams' pitchers.
Getting back to the Angels, though, this entire debacle was created by the complicated and awkward All-Star selection process. All-Stars are selected three different ways: by fans, through player voting, and by managers. All three of these groups are highly prone to bias - fans will vote for their team's players, players will vote for teammates and guys who are popular, and managers will select their own players, as Charlie Manuel readily admits to doing with Ryan Howard. It's the sort of system which led to the selection of Nick Swisher in the ridiculous "final vote." Swisher, who ranks 16th among all AL positional players in WAR, wasn't a terrible pick, but Kevin Youkilis is 9th and ended up staying home. Still, if you're going to bitch about All-Star selections, send MLB an angry email about the flawed selection system. Unless you've lobbied for a change, you can't complain when the results aren't to your liking.
2. PAYROLL! PAYROLL! PAYROLL!
First, to clear up any misconceptions, here is the 2010 MLB payroll data according to CBS Sports. You'll note that the Angels are one of 8 teams in the MLB with a payroll greater than $100 million. They have the highest payroll in their division, and are spending about $50 million more than the division-leading Texas Rangers. Indeed, according to Forbes, the Angels have spent more than $100 million on payroll for the past 6 years running (including 2010). They have also seen their total revenue and team value rise in each of those years. What does all of this tell us? Well, apart from the fact that the Angels are no $40 million heroes, it certainly seems as if billionaire owner Arte Moreno has subscribed to the spend-money-to-make-money school of sports ownership pioneered by George M. Steinbrenner III, with excellent results. The value of the team has increased almost threefold from the $180 million Moreno purchased the club for in 2003 to over $500 million as of 2009. Critical to the Angels' success? The signing of a lucrative 10 year contract in 2006 with Fox Sports. It appears that Moreno is taking all of the same steps as the Boss, and with similar results as he takes advantage of being a LARGE MARKET TEAM. That's right, Los Angeles is the second-largest city in America, several times larger than Boston, and Moreno knows it. He can thank George for paving the way.
To those who are actually fans of small market teams, I would like to offer an apology that your owner is too tightfisted to recognize what Steinbrenner did and Moreno does - that you have to spend money in order to make it. I'm sorry that your owner treats your team like another stock in his portfolio even though he could probably easily increase his revenue and returns if he was willing to invest in building the team. I'm especially sorry that he turns around and pockets the millions of revenue sharing dollars that he gets instead of putting a quality product on the field. It's unfortunate that he doesn't care about winning as much as you do. Yankees fans haven't had a problem like that for 37 years thanks to an owner who was probably the biggest Yankee fan of all.
3. STEINBRENNER
That last point helps me segue into this next one: disrespectful comments about the late George Steinbrenner. While not all of those over at Halos Heaven felt the need to participate in this particularly ugly behavior, a significant number did, and it caught our attention here at Pinstripe Alley. In life, the Boss never backed down or shied away from criticism, and I doubt that if he were around he would give a rat's ass about what jealous Angels fans said about him, but more importantly, much of your criticism is just factually inaccurate. Ignoring the ridiculous comments about how the Boss' death was all a conspiracy to upstage the Angels' All-Star Game, let's take a look at some of the criticism Steinbrenner faced, mostly in this comment thread:
Steinbrenner ruined baseball. This was a common one, although reasons were rarely given for it. The few reasons given seemed to center around how the Boss recognized the potential of free agency and used it to his advantage. Sorry, but this one doesn't hold up. Steinbrenner played by the same rules as everyone else. He wasn't necessarily the richest owner in baseball, but he wanted to win the most, and that's what free agency lends itself to. Simply having the money is not enough, you have to want to spend it (see the spend money to make money section above). Additionally, $150 million might as well be $50 million if you don't spend it properly (see: the New York Mets).
Since plenty of Pinstripe Alley users jumped in, we also got to see that many Angels fans have never taken a formal logic course. Apparently the best course of action to take when presented with a counterargument is to take your original argument to a greater extreme. In this case, it was argumentum ad Hitlerum, thus fulfilling Godwin's law.
Steinbrenner was a terrible person. This argument is, perhaps, slightly more viable given that Steinbrenner actually did mistreat many of his players and employees, Yogi Berra, Dave Winfield, and Billy Martin included, was banned from baseball, and made illegal contributions to Richard Nixon's re-election campaign. However, Steinbrenner was a changed man after returning from his early 1990s suspension from the game. As the Yankees built from within and created a dynasty, the Boss patched things up with Yogi and Winfield and expressed regret over never being able to do so with Billy Martin. Steinbrenner also gave millions and millions of dollars to charity and made loyalty a core value of the Yankees organization (not that it hasn't always been). Just one of what I'm sure are many stories of his acts of kindness is this one, which I found incredibly moving when I read it today in the paper.
The last thing I'd like to say regarding Steinbrenner's death is one which was also discussed somewhat on Halos Heaven and here during the arguments. This is what was said regarding Nick Adenhart, the young Angels pitcher who passed away in the beginning of the 2009 season. Yankees fans expressed nothing but sympathy and best wishes for Adenhart's family after his death, and while an Angels fan might claim that Adenhart never did any of the bad things which Streinbrenner did, I would say that Steinbrenner did a great deal for baseball and for the communities he supported in Tampa and New York. Both are individuals who deserve to be remembered, and before you disrespect Steinbrenner you should think about how you would feel if others disrespected Adenhart's memory.
4. EAST COAST MEDIA BIAS
It seems like I've spent a lot of time writing about bias, probably because it's what Angels fans at Halos Heaven complain about the most. It always seems like they're the underdogs who can't compete with the huge media markets of New York and Boston despite the fact that Los Angeles is the second-largest TV market in the United States, and is double the size of the Boston TV market (which should even things up, since it supports two teams to Boston's one). So what's the big deal?
The biggest problem here seems to be that the Angels have absolutely no idea how to take advantage of their huge media market. A great factor in this seems to be that Southern Californians just don't care that much about baseball. Sorry, but SoCal is not the "heart and soul of the baseball world," or whatever Angels fans would like you to believe. If it was, their All-Star Game wouldn't have gotten such terrible ratings, even with the time difference. I watched the entire game, including the 40 minutes of bullshit leading up to the first pitch, so don't blame me.
Perhaps Southern California sports fans are too busy for baseball. Between the Lakers and college superpowers such as USC and UCLA it's not hard to see where the Angels might run into stiff competition. I'm guessing that many Hispanics in the area are more interested in soccer than baseball. Maybe Southern Californians don't like sports at all, and all they care about is fashion and the movie industry (if you take the stereotypical view).
Whatever the reason, the Southern California media market, which should be powerful, is not strong enough to draw sufficient attention to please Angels fans. What they fail to realize, however, is that sports networks are businesses which are going to cater to their viewers and show whatever pulls in higher ratings. Obviously, people on the East Coast still spend enough time watching baseball to make it worthwhile for these networks to devote the more of their coverage to East Coast teams. It's not that Southern California doesn't have enough people to attract media coverage. It's that they don't care. It's going to take they type of huge success which the Yankees and Red Sox have had in the past 15 years to catch people's attention. In any case, whatever bias is actually present is probably amplified by your heightened sensitivity and predisposition to cry that you're being discriminated against.
Lastly, and especially regarding the All-Star Game ratings and other associated time zone caused issues (such as players apparently not voting for Angels to go to the All-Star Game because they never see West Coast games): the East Coast would like to collectively apologize for the direction in which the Earth rotates. It is, admittedly, very unfortunate that the Earth does not rotate in the opposite direction so that the East would be the odd ones out who never got any attention from the West Coast. We also apologize for being closer to Europe than you are, and for consequently being colonized earlier and being more populated.
If you want to be part of the largest media market in America, please do as others have suggested and move to New York.
MISCELLANEOUS
Mariano Rivera does not throw a spitball. Glad we could get that one cleared up.
Creating a bunch of posts about how the Rangers are all-but-guaranteed to fall apart and leave the AL West open for the taking doesn't make it true.
The Rally Monkey has been scientifically proven to be the dumbest and most transparent marketing gimmick in the history of the game.
There is absolutely no point in having a rule against using the word "fuck" more than once per month when posters can get away with using it twice in the same comment thread in less than two hours. I know that it can be difficult to count past one, but please do make more of an effort.
Did you know? This post took over two hours to write. It could have more effectively been summarized with this picture:

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The picture couldn't have been more true
Haters certainly are going to hate. I’ll rec this because I think you bring up many valuable points worth noting. However, I’m not sure how many arrogant Angel fans are going to read this. HH is certainly full of people that are just flat out rude, and I’m not saying this just to say it. I’ve never seen more gruesome comments from what seems like a classy organization they’re running over in LA/Anaheim/they have the most ridiculous name ever. They certainly aren’t well represented on HH. HH is supposed to be representative of fans that come from a relatively great franchise… and this certainly isn’t the case.
Great read, YankeesRock.
"Winning is the most important thing in my life, after breathing. Breathing first, winning next." -George Michael Steinbrenner III
Can you call them fans over there?
Because they’re not. You summed up pretty much evrything I would like to say about them.
Section 203 Row 15 Seat 1
Rec'd
excellent post. I hope some of those Angels fans read it. Loved the picture.
Their comments about Steinbrenner bugged me the most, and then we heard some fans cheering during the “moment of silence” at the All-Star Game. What was that about?
It’s unfortunate because the Angels are a greatly run franchise with a terrific manager. It’s a shame their fans can’t have a little more “class”.
Oh, and one more complaint about the Angels. Why can’t they PICK A NAME, and STICK WITH IT! I swear to god, the California/Anaheim/Los Angeles Angels, and then adding OF ANAHEIM at it to the end? Come on. Just pick a name.
"I'm looking at 600 as first base. I want to run right through it and use it as a platform and a spring board for more to come"- Alex Rodriguez
oh really the pick a name argument... Hey smart guy
where does the NY giants and Ny Jets play (before this year) —-Not even in the F’n state!!!! or what about the Tampa rays/ They play in St Pete. Detoroit Pistons play in auburn hills the list goes on and on.
Angels stadium is less than 30 miles from DOWNTOWN LA and only about 12-15 miles from LA the city. In California 12-15 miles is like 10-15 blocks in NYC.
So the pick a name argument is pretty lame.
Fuentes = The New 'F' Word
by Sinatrasratpack on Jul 16, 2010 9:16 PM EDT up reply actions
I didn't pick on the name because the team is contractually obligated
by the city of Anaheim to have the name of the city in their name. It appears that they went with LAA of Anaheim in order to fulfill their contractual obligations while still associating themselves with the much stronger market of Los Angeles. I think that they should just go back to California Angels, but that doesn’t have ‘Anaheim’ in it.
I absoultely agree about going back to california angels. I just think it is funny
that the so called ‘better sports fans’ of the wast coast managed to adapt to the Rays changing their name from devil rays with ease, but try watching a Baseball tonight broadcast where they say ,“and now to check in and see what the Anaheim Angels are doing.” but no theres no Bias.
Fuentes = The New 'F' Word
by Sinatrasratpack on Jul 16, 2010 9:24 PM EDT up reply actions
Way too much effort to tell Angels fans they're dumbasses.
Now we look like we actually care about their tomfoolery and antics.
Strikeouts are boring- Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.
by CasanovaWong on Jul 16, 2010 10:57 AM EDT reply actions 2 recs
That was half of my feeling as well
"Winning is the most important thing in my life, after breathing. Breathing first, winning next." -George Michael Steinbrenner III
by Chris McKeown on Jul 16, 2010 11:16 AM EDT up reply actions
YOU'RE FULL OF EAST COAST BIAS!!!!
"Winning is the most important thing in my life, after breathing. Breathing first, winning next." -George Michael Steinbrenner III
by Chris McKeown on Jul 16, 2010 12:11 PM EDT up reply actions
If small-market teams would stop being so cheap and move to enormous metropolises, they could have big payrolls too! Thanks for clearing this up man.
LGT's resident moderate Yankee hating fan.
or maybe if they would market a bit better...I don't think the Cavs ever had issues getting fans into their seats
Too soon?
"We're only going to score 17 points?" - Tom Brady
"Well played, Mauer." - Guy from PS3 commercials
Just need a top 5 talent in the history of the sport. Easy enough, no?
LGT's resident moderate Yankee hating fan.
I'm sure more people were getting tickets when CC and Cliff Lee were still on the team
Just seems that some of the owners couldn’t care less about how the team does as long as they save money.
"We're only going to score 17 points?" - Tom Brady
"Well played, Mauer." - Guy from PS3 commercials
Yes, because not keeping Cliff Lee and CC Sabathia shows that. Oh wait.
LGT's resident moderate Yankee hating fan.
They didn't want to keep them because they didn't want to pay big money to keep them
"We're only going to score 17 points?" - Tom Brady
"Well played, Mauer." - Guy from PS3 commercials
If you’re a midmarket team, tell me what the point is in committing that much money and years to a pitcher? If the Indians didn’t seriously care about winning, they would have never signed Grady Sizemore to that huge contract, and for all the good it’s doing them too.
LGT's resident moderate Yankee hating fan.
You have a great mentality
You’re right, midmarket and small market teams should just forfeit on April 1! Why bother even trying to compete? There’s no way they could ever match up to the Yankees with their big free agents and stuff!
Or not. If the Indians were willing to spend a little money to keep the elite pitchers they had in Sabathia and Lee you would be looking at a team that would perennially contend for the Central division title, instead of perennially contending for last place. Larry Dolan, who owns the Indians, is worth $3.3 billion. In a thread we had about the Cliff Lee deal which fell through, it was discussed that the marginal value of an additional win is as much as $6-7 million as a team goes from mediocrity to contention, which represents the peak of the bell curve. For a team such as the Yankees, an additional win would only be worth about $4 million since they already project to win around 100 games – usually more than enough to reach the playoffs.
The Indians are having a particularly bad season with Sizemore out and are currently projecting to win only 65 games. The bell curve peaks at 81 wins, so they have a lot of ground to cover, but Sabathia and Lee make a huge difference. Lee has been worth over 6 wins for the past two seasons, and Sabathia has been worth over 6 wins for the past three. 12 additional wins puts the Indians at 77 wins, which is still on the low side of the curve. They would have to make some additional moves to rise into contention, but it would be well worth it. Even assuming an average WAR value of only $5 million since they wouldn’t reach the peak of the curve, those 12 wins would be worth $60 million – probably significantly more than their combined salaries.
Instead, the Indians, along with many teams, seem to have clung to the notion that when a team is doing badly, the only solution is to have a fire sale and spend several years “rebuilding” to make a run at contention before dropping off again. What they fail to realize is that the additional revenue gained by at least being a respectable team outweighs the money saved by getting rid of quality players who will demand high salaries.
by YankeesRock on Jul 18, 2010 12:21 AM EDT up reply actions
Cliff notes: The Indians should devote half of their current payroll to two guys, both pitchers, one of which is a confounding, injury-prone anomaly entering his mid 30’s, while the other weighs in at over 300 pounds. Even if they did this, and somehow had both those pitchers maintain their current level of production for 5 or 6 more years (neither will, Sabathia already isn’t near the guy he used to be), they would still be under .500. Awesome.
LGT's resident moderate Yankee hating fan.
Let's just ignore the abomination that is Halos Heaven
Honestly the best that can happen is Rev getting fired.
"We're only going to score 17 points?" - Tom Brady
"Well played, Mauer." - Guy from PS3 commercials
What's the sense?
Angels fans are essentially Rays fans 8 years after their team became relevant.
Bye, Lee :(
+10
"Winning is the most important thing in my life, after breathing. Breathing first, winning next." -George Michael Steinbrenner III
by Chris McKeown on Jul 16, 2010 1:51 PM EDT up reply actions
Not true, at least of HH
The overwhelming majority of us suffered through years of awfulness as hardcore Halo fans. You could make a case that we have been spoiled by the last decade of excellence though and hate that it is waning this season.
Torii Hunter has some Brain Movage
Awesome.
I love it when an educated Yankee fan could put idiots in thier place. 27 CHAMPIONSHIPS BRO!! thats how everyone sees Yankee fans. Many Kudos sir, good job.
WOW SO SAD
Some fans are so sad, where does someone get the balls to say GMS died to upstage the all star game.
Since the face been revealed the game got real
i'd like to extrapolate on your last point
yes, there may be an East Coast Bias, but only because the East Coast has a far larger population than the West (112 M vs. 47 M). that’s just human nature. living in California, you should know that media/entertainment companies try to appeal to the largest group of people possible, because viewers = $$$. fascinating stuff.
I get the weird feeling you are not too fond of Angels fans
In all seriousness though, the more we comment on it the more it goes on.
Writer for Pinstripe Alley
"Today I consider myself the luckiest man on the face of this earth."
"So I close in saying that I may have had a tough break, but I have an awful lot to live for."
R.I.P. Bob Sheppard, George Steinbrenner
Yep, we're apparently now known as Penisenvy Alley
And I’m an oversensitive little pussy. I really don’t care how they react, especially since at least one of them is probably going to devote as much time as I did responding. Haters gonna hate.
I will send a picture of my penis anytime
And then we will see who is envious. There is a reason I am called the Bashman and watch so much porn.
WHERE ARE MY DENTURES? The Police never think it's as is funny as you do. Drain us of life and cleanse the mess the end of prod... It puts the lotion on.
by cashman bashman on Jul 19, 2010 11:22 AM EDT up reply actions
kinda looks like my revolver if you get my drift
beating HH pussies is my forte.
WHERE ARE MY DENTURES? The Police never think it's as is funny as you do. Drain us of life and cleanse the mess the end of prod... It puts the lotion on.
by cashman bashman on Jul 19, 2010 11:25 AM EDT up reply actions
How old are you again?
"Winning is the most important thing in my life, after breathing. Breathing first, winning next." -George Michael Steinbrenner III
by Chris McKeown on Jul 19, 2010 2:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Excellent post. Balanced and well supported.
I am a Red Sox fan and a Yankee hater, but I want to go on record as stating that taking shots at a couple of icons of the game in the Boss and Bob Sheppard is classless and shows a disrespect for the game and it’s history. The non-observance of the moment of silence at the ASG was one of the most unsportsmanlike displays I have seen in years. The Angel’s fan base has reached a new low. The baseball gods will not let this go unpunished. Go Texas !
WWSD ?
Nobody took any shots at Bob Sheppard just to be clear.
Most people did observe the moment of silence at Angels stadium. Also, somebody passing away such as “The Boss” doesn’t make him a saint. Outside of the Yankees, he is not well liked. Many blogs took shots at him not just HH or Angels fans.
Torii Hunter has some Brain Movage
the moment of silecnce ... are you kidding me
have you ever heard a stadium stay quiet for that long. We were standing there forever. Also who the hell is he that he deserves a standing ovation. he was important to the game of baseball, but he is just a rich guy who owned a team, not soldiers dying in IRAQ.
So it is unsportsman like when it happens to one of your guys?… Question… did you observe a moment of silence at the stadium when Gene Autry died? what about Nick Adenhart?
Apparently classy is a one way street for you. so out of 50,000 people 90% were respectful to your liking, and 10% were standing in the hot sun saying enough already and cheering for the game to get going and that is unsportsman like? so they observed the moment of silence… just for not as long as you would have liked. Apparently that just makes us horrible people. You know standing in the hot sun because the game was being played early so the ever important east Coasters could watch the game… but the ratings were low. Oh let’s blame that on the West Coast ‘bad fans’ it couldn’t have been the great sports fans on the East Coast
Fuentes = The New 'F' Word
by Sinatrasratpack on Jul 16, 2010 9:35 PM EDT up reply actions
Even if you win 27 more
everyone still hates your heartless team of free agents and obnoxious fans.
Plus the rally monkey has worked on enough occasions to warrant its status as a rally icon.
That being said, I wouldn’t lose to much sleep over it guys.
W6G -- Unless there's a good trade on the table.
The rally monkey comment was a joke, but it seems to have gone over the heads of a few Angels fans
Maybe I’m not the one who’s too sensitive.
Nevertheless, the rally monkey frowns upon your shennanigans

W6G -- Unless there's a good trade on the table.
by RexTookMyStash on Jul 16, 2010 8:35 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
If you were a Yankees fan posting an image like that on HH you would already be banned
Since that’s not the case…

by YankeesRock on Jul 16, 2010 8:40 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
Teh Monkey is also trained in self-defense...bring it!

"You gotta have nuts." / "Coming Around 3rd, especially if I'm ticked off, that's going to happen." - Torii Hunter
by Commander_Nate on Jul 16, 2010 8:43 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
lol
epic pictures
"Winning is the most important thing in my life, after breathing. Breathing first, winning next." -George Michael Steinbrenner III
by Chris McKeown on Jul 17, 2010 12:49 AM EDT up reply actions
We don't even need to win one more
to be far more respected than the laughingstock of a board you got over at HH.
You are children.
Little girls.
With damp diapers.
Stuck in your high chair.
Hopelessly grasping for that sippie cup you held for one brief instant but will never hold again.
That’s why acroos all the MLB blogs no one takes you seriously.
You bring it on yourselves. So we laugh at you. Then go back to winning.
+1
"Winning is the most important thing in my life, after breathing. Breathing first, winning next." -George Michael Steinbrenner III
by Chris McKeown on Jul 21, 2010 12:44 AM EDT up reply actions
Ouch brochacho.
"Winning is the most important thing in my life, after breathing. Breathing first, winning next." -George Michael Steinbrenner III
by Chris McKeown on Jul 21, 2010 12:44 AM EDT up reply actions
What a silly, trivial, useless post.
I enjoyed how pointing out that the comments of a few don’t represent an entire population of people didn’t stop you from wasting two hours of your life writing this. If you actually believed the sentiment of the picture you posted, you could have spent some time with your wife/girlfriend/friends/dog instead of writing a rant about Angel fans on a Yankee blog. You should be laughed at for this, not commended.
I’m an Angel fan and respect the Yankees. Tear me apart for defying the stereotype. Lord knows none exist about Yankee fans, right?
RIP Nick Adenhart
So me more or less quoting the disclaimer shows I obviously didn't read it?
Point stands. If you read MY post (which you obviously did not…ha!), the point was that acknowledging you were complaining about the rants of a small number of commenters was more or less pathetic especially given it took you two hours to write. I probably would have realized the “Wait, my team has won 27 rings…what do I care?” sentiment after about 5 minute of writing, but hey that’s just me.
Isn’t you taking the opportunity to trash the Angels basically stooping to the level of the same dumb Angel fans you are ripping for stooping to such low levels?
Is your mind blown yet?
RIP Nick Adenhart
by ihearhowie2.0 on Jul 17, 2010 1:11 AM EDT up reply actions
Nope
It’s really not a small number of commenters. The two hours I spent basically covered a week’s worth a bitching by Angels fans. And you guys have now wasted more than that in responding to it. I generated 86 comments and made the front page just by presenting a few counterarguments. Apparently people can’t handle the truth.
I just think it's a misguided fight
A Mariner fan came and made fun of Nick Adenhart’s death on HH last year, you didn’t see a full-fledged war on the civility of Mariner fans.
And yeah, I get you are responding to, what?, 5-10 commenters on a website? Couldn’t you tear apart every team based on such a small size ON THE INTERNET
Your post was basically the equivalent of walking into a family reunion, saying “hey guys, I know my beef is only with two cousins….but here’s 10 reasons why your grandmother is a whore”….what did you expect the response would be?
RIP Nick Adenhart
by ihearhowie2.0 on Jul 17, 2010 1:49 PM EDT up reply actions
as an angels fan I actually agree with a majority of your post
it was also well written and I can really appreciatte the amount of time it took to get it all out.
One bone to pick the East Coast bias thing…
Here is the thing East coasters love to say that those on the West Coast are ‘whining’ about the bias. It might be hard to understand but unless you feel (and I know this is a poor choice of words but I can’t think of a better one) victim of the bias, you wouldn’t understand. Last year a media watch group did a survey of ESPN games and found that they aired (my number might be off slightly because I am doing these from memory) 112 games and 90 of them featured at least one team from the selection of Philly, Boston, NY yankees, Mets, and Tampa bay.
These are all great teams to be sure and i am not saying they aren’t but when ‘your team’ finally does get a broadcast and the announcer doesn’t pronounce the players name right or tells the wrong antidote associated with the incorrect player it rubs on you after awhile.
So I think it is a ‘chicken and the egg argument’ Sure the players get voted in because they are the most popular,but are they only the most popular because of the favorable coverage. Would Nick swisher have been an allstar if he had the same season but player for the Colorado rockies?
Also it seems like the East Coasters don’t care about anything outside of their realm, so of course sports out here seems mundane and goes without notice for you. West coasters will watch games all over the country. tampa bay plays CWS… sure i’ll watch. But Angels play Oakland or Texas, i doubt you TRUE baseball fans will stay up to watch.
Finally about the 27 world series, seriously you have it all over baseball and most sports for that matter. Even as infuriating as Yankees fans sometimes are holding up the 27 banners sign pretty much ends all arguments, one bone to pick with that though…
How is winning the world series 78 years ago relevant? My argument is… take the last decade, a 10 year rolling span time frame seems more adequate to measure dominance. which done by that you still have a huge advantage but it just makes the numbers used a little more realistic. I mean how absurd would it be to have a Boston fan walking around chanting —1918 yeah we dominated that year—— No they pretty much stick to their recent successes. (which is literally the only nice thing I have ever said about a Boston fan-of any sport)
So mention and gloat all you want about 2009, because it was a great year for the team and a hell of a World Series run… Just please stop acting like Babe Ruth’s called shot in 1932 or whatever, has any bearing on dominance of a sport nowadays..
later
Fuentes = The New 'F' Word
by Sinatrasratpack on Jul 16, 2010 9:04 PM EDT reply actions
Fair enough
In my case I have a subscription to MLB Gameday Radio and I will usually listen to one East Coast game (or watch the Yankees if they’re on) and one West Coast game per night. Regarding ESPN, I agree that they probably do devote more time to East Coast teams. But ESPN is just a TV network, and as such, are only interested in ratings and advertising dollars, not in providing balanced coverage of all MLB teams as MLB Network attempts to do. ESPN is going to follow the money trail, and despite the size of the LA market, that trail leads straight to the East Coast.
Thanks for being reasonable, though.
My point is just that it is hard to determine cause and effect
Do the East Coasters get more attention because they are better teams with better players or is it that they just get the most coverage which has made them who they are. Yankees fans have EARNED their fan base and much of (even though it is a little overblown) of he mancrush that media types have of the organization. However The ‘Red Sox Nation" is purely a derivative of ESPN.
Red Sux were getting this same coverage before 2004 when they didn’t deserve it. The coverage has created this aura around the team. that is why players whom all have egos that match their salaries love going to East Coast Teams. they know they’ll get the love and attention.
One thing that has always puzzled me and maybe you could explain, why is it that this East Coast bias thing in sports only apply to baseball? I mean the lakers get plenty of coverage, The SD Chargers, KC Chiefs, Seahawks etc.. all get coverage. And pretty fair and balanced too. But, in baseball the whole sport revolves around 4 teams Phill, Mets, yanks, Boston… (and the mets F’n Suck!)
when nationally syndicated radio guys spend half an hour discussing the merits of the 5th reliever in the Yankees bullpen and yet a team the in the 2000’s had the 3rd most wins (behind Boston and NY) that never gets discussed at all. So maybe we are ‘whining’ about it, but it is about as obvious East Coast Bias as it is obvious that basketball referees are biased.
Fuentes = The New 'F' Word
by Sinatrasratpack on Jul 16, 2010 10:42 PM EDT up reply actions
This is something which I sort of mentioned in my original post
I said that, for some reason, the large LA market has not attracted significant attention to the Angels, but I didn’t really try to go into depth as to why, only saying that the Angels haven’t taken advantage of their market size. I’m willing to throw out a few guesses, but they’re pure speculation.
The Angels are not tied strongly enough to Los Angeles. Despite their name, the fact that the Angels do not actually play in LA is bound to hurt them somewhat. The Dodgers usually seem to get their fair share of coverage. Also, the Angels lack a rivalry. One of the biggest draws of attention and coverage to the East is how the different large market teams play off of each other. Obviously, nothing is going to attract more attention than Yankees-Red Sox. And even though the Mets suck, New York is New York, and they’re going to get coverage anyway. Their divisional race is also usually pretty interesting as they face up against other large market teams in the Phillies and the Braves. The Angels have no other large market team to play off of. The Rangers are in a large market, but haven’t been competitive for much of the decade, and baseball is not nearly as big as football in Texas.
No matter what, though, it always comes back to money, because it’s what this is all about. Baseball is a business and complaining about the baseball world being driven by the dollar is as futile as complaining about the rest of the world being driven by the dollar. That’s why I think that the East Coast Media Bias claims are old hat. Pointing out that the media is trying to make money is like pointing out that the sky is blue and it gets pretty boring after a while. In other sports such as football where the Cowboys get tons of coverage, it’s because they have the biggest football market. It just happens to be the East Coast where baseball is at its most lucrative.
by YankeesRock on Jul 16, 2010 11:21 PM EDT up reply actions
Babe Ruth matters
because the tradition of winning isn’t Sanka. You just don’t add water.
27 championships matter (and not just the last one) because it speaks to the heritage and legacy of the organization. Over a century’s worth of commitment to excellence. It matters because it dawns on ballplayers from the time they are playing tee ball that success and excellence and reaching the pinnacle of performance means putting on the pinstripes. It matters because, year after year, 29 other teams are chock full of ball players that are tickled pink just to be playing in the major leagues… while The New York Yankees are chock full of ball players only tickled pink if they’re Champions of the World.
That’s why Babe Ruth matters. That’s why DiMaggio matters. That’s why Mantle matters, and Reggie and Jeets and Mo.
Because it doesn’t just happen. it has to be built and then built upon year after year after year. And that is EXACTLY why George Steinbrenner mattered — and CBS didn’t.
The Yankees are not the greatest team in baseball because they’ve won 27 times. They’ve won 27 times because they are the greatest team in baseball.
And they wonder why we don't like them
This is a direct quote from the person who is supposed to MODERATE their site, the always idiotic ‘Rev Halofan’.
There is nothing noble
About yelling from an overcrowded bandwagon. There is no such thing as a "Yankee Fan" … The guy who follows the Yankees is the guy who is always found demanding that everyone else agree that he is right. What we call "Yankee Fans" is an affliction known as "Self-Absorbed, Domineering Hemmorhoid of a Human". AM I RIGHT?
"Son, Nobody is half as good as Mickey Mantle"
When you quote the Rev, you best quote him correctly
lest thee be smoten.
W6G -- Unless there's a good trade on the table.
by RexTookMyStash on Jul 16, 2010 9:31 PM EDT up reply actions
I apologize for my formatting error
However the content of the comment in question is where I have an issue. Some Yankee fans ARE bandwagoners, we cannot escape this (for a full list of Yankee bandwagoners contact Bradshaw, Free). However to accuse an entire team’s fanbase of that is just ridiculous.
And as for the rest of the comment, the exact same thing could be said about Angels fans. Not the “Self-absorbed, Etc. Etc.” (Because I recognize saying that about other fans is douche-y) , but the part about demanding that you are always correct. ANY TEAM that has success will believe in their own talent over the talent of others. A Patriots fan will always say that Brady is the best QB in the NFL. A Marlins fan will always say Hanley is the best SS in the league.
I guess I’m just trying to say that, yes, we do act like we are always in the right. But before you deride us for doing so, realize that you probably do it yourself.
"Son, Nobody is half as good as Mickey Mantle"
I found this picture of Yankees fans, so I can understand the angst.

W6G -- Unless there's a good trade on the table.
I found this picture of Angels fans, so I can understand the hating...

"Son, Nobody is half as good as Mickey Mantle"
by ntrokel on Jul 16, 2010 9:59 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I'll play.
First, let me start off by saying that I didn’t condone some of the comments made about GS and I did come over here and offer my condolences on your recent losses.
Now, without being insulting to GS and the feelings Yankee fans have for him, there are legitimate objections to the way he operated and what some of his long-term effects on baseball might end up being. Most of these reservations do cover the areas of payroll and “spending money to make money” as it is described. It’s not just baseball and GS, to me and others, they are larger economic and social issues of which baseball (and really all sports) is a microcosm. Much of what I am talking about is described here in this article, which I have referenced many times before in discussions like this. I strongly suggest reading it, because it raises some very good points.
I believe GS was good for baseball in that he really did catalyze the idea of making money and investing it back into the team and that he helped players get to the point of getting their fair cut of the multi-millions being made off the sport. Over the years, this spread throughout the sport and, I believe, helped it. However, 30 or so years later, myself and many others feel that the pendulum has swung to the opposite extreme.
My concern is that the average fan is slowly being priced out of the game. I believe this trend that started decades ago is largely responsible for the fact that many families these days can maybe afford in the range of 1 or 2 games a year on average. To make it worse, they might not even be paying that money to see a competitive team. Sure, some of this is the result of cheap ownership, but the costs are much the same for fans of good teams. Admittedly, the Angels and Moreno have done a good job as far as giving Angel fans bang for their buck, but I’m wary of how much longer this will keep up.
As the above-referenced article states, roughly 75% of families can’t really afford to attend live sporting events. Yet every year athletes (baseball players in particular) make more and more money and newer and more expensive stadiums are built, often with public funding being the majority of the financial backing. The average price of a ticket at Yankee Stadium last year was over $70, and this is on top of the fact that New Yorkers paid the bulk of the funding to build the new stadium. Yankee fans might be happy with that, but the implications raised by it for the sport should be unsettling.
I’m single and have a college degree, so I can afford a few trips up from SD each year to see the team I grew up cheering for play in Anaheim. If it ever gets to the point where I’m having to pay $70 or more for semi-decent seats, I’m going to have to reconsider how often I go. $70+ for one ballgame with a friend or two who can afford it can pay for numerous nights at the movies, the bar, a dinner or two with the lady, etc. If I had a family, it would be out of the question on my current income or anything near it. Your average family makes what, $60K a year or so? Your average MLB player or pro athlete makes a few million and it keeps going up along with the price of admission. I’m fine with players making their fair share of the millions and new stadiums being built, but $20 or $30 mil+ a year? Hundreds of millions of dollars in bonds or taxes for a new stadium when kids are dropping out of high school, infrastructure is breaking down, there aren’t enough police on the streets, etc? At some point we need to step back and look at this pattern.
It all boils down to excess, and in some cases, greed. It’s the same type of behavior that started this recession/depression/double-dip recession/OMGTHEMAYANSWERERIGHT, or whatever you want to call it. It’s exponential and the end result for baseball might end up being that kids can no longer grow up attending and loving the sport unless they were born with a silver spoon in their mouths. Price the average kid’s love of baseball out of the equation and we lose our national pastime. It will become a game only for a select few, like polo or something to that effect and be replaced by 3D movies, XBox 720 and whatever else kids can afford to enjoy.
As I said, I believe GS did some good things for baseball, but there have been some negative consequences of his legacy that do have the potential to grow worse. I do not mean that in a disrespectful way, but it is a legitimate concern shared by many and one that I hope you’ll consider.
Anyway, that came out to be a lot longer than I expected. I’m going to cook dinner and get drunk for my roommate’s birthday…see you guys later!
"You gotta have nuts." / "Coming Around 3rd, especially if I'm ticked off, that's going to happen." - Torii Hunter
Psh, I didn't even have to get up for a drink writing this
Just wait until someone pisses me off and I have three hours of downtime at work…then you’re in for a novel.
"You gotta have nuts." / "Coming Around 3rd, especially if I'm ticked off, that's going to happen." - Torii Hunter
by Commander_Nate on Jul 17, 2010 3:48 PM EDT up reply actions
lol I'd actually like to see that
"Winning is the most important thing in my life, after breathing. Breathing first, winning next." -George Michael Steinbrenner III
by Chris McKeown on Jul 17, 2010 11:07 PM EDT up reply actions
There is no doubt in my mind that NYS and the incredibly high ticket prices are excessive
I was one of many fans who was sad to see the old Stadium go. I am lucky enough to have the means to attend several games a year, but it’s not hard to see how some fans are being pushed away by the high prices. Any Yankees fan will tell you that the Legends seats are garbage and that the food prices are so ridiculous that most fans will just bring their own food into the Stadium, but the economist in me recognizes that the prices which seemed absurd during the depths of the recession may not be so unsustainable after all. You don’t hear about the Yankees having trouble filling the seats nowadays. The truth is as you said – that in such a large market the Yankees can afford to charge ridiculous prices and still sell out, and that’s going to prevent fans from attending games if they can’t afford the tickets. The team seems to have found the point at which it can still make boatloads of money without stretching its fanbase to the limit, and fans are going to suffer for it.
However, I don’t really see it as a slippery slope. I think that the prices we saw during the first season last year were really the height of excess. The Yankees brass underestimated the recession and overestimated their corporate ticket holders, but it seems unlikely to happen again. Bleacher seats can still be had for Monday’s Yankees-Angels game for less than $20 a pop on StubHub. That’s not cheap, but it’s not slaughter either – it’s about double your typical movie ticket. Bring your own food and you won’t have to spend another dime.
The real source of the problem, though, comes from neither Steinbrenner’s actions specifically nor from baseball itself. The general trend in MLB towards higher salaries and ticket prices is more of a reflection of the culture of excess which permeates American society than it is an isolated instance of a few businesses running wild and abusing their customers. In reality there are thousands and thousands of large companies which abuse their customers in the name of profit, and baseball teams are only a small subset of these companies. The bull market years have led to a second Gilded Age in America and consumers will pay the price. It’s not something that’s likely to be fixed any time soon.
Steinbrenner, to me, was one of the better owners throughout his tenure. Why? Because I believe that the greed of owners will manifest itself in one of two ways. Either the owners will seek to profit off their team by doing the bare minimum and just pocketing revenue sharing dollars, or they will pay extravagant salaries and pass those expenses on to their fans. Usually, owners who subscribe to the former strategy are those who don’t care about winning, and those who opt for the latter want to win championships. Both strategies lead to huge profits for the owners, but at least the Steinbrenner method leads to a high quality product on the field which fans can actually enjoy while they give away their money. Fans of teams with tightfisted owners are just paying over and over for a product which they know is going to disappoint. And we all know that doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results is the definition of insanity.
by YankeesRock on Jul 16, 2010 10:38 PM EDT up reply actions
This is by far the longest comment I've ever seen in my life
"Winning is the most important thing in my life, after breathing. Breathing first, winning next." -George Michael Steinbrenner III
by Chris McKeown on Jul 17, 2010 12:47 AM EDT up reply actions
*Tuesday's Yankees-Angels game
Thanks, HH, for realizing that the incorrect date was the focus of my argument.
I agree with most of what you said
It really is a part of a much larger problem that extends beyond baseball and sports. I just focused on GS and baseball since he was one of, if not the main architect of this current trend. It’s since been picked up by the agents, players and numerous owners and execs.
My concern is more long-term. What if our economic problems continue for 5 years or more? If that happens, how many small and mid-market teams are going to be able to hand out Joe Mauer or CC contracts or whatever and keep drawing fans at high prices? Big market teams might get by because they have larger and more affluent fan bases to rely upon, but even they might lose a lot of lower and middle-class fans.
I hope it doesn’t come to that point, but as you said, it’s not likely to be fixed anytime soon.
"You gotta have nuts." / "Coming Around 3rd, especially if I'm ticked off, that's going to happen." - Torii Hunter
by Commander_Nate on Jul 17, 2010 4:11 PM EDT up reply actions
Just kidding... this is
"Winning is the most important thing in my life, after breathing. Breathing first, winning next." -George Michael Steinbrenner III
by Chris McKeown on Jul 17, 2010 12:48 AM EDT up reply actions
Wow
It’s nice to read some well-thought out posts for a change. “That’s all I have to say about that”. (Forrest Gump voice)
Bringing Absurdity to New Heights!
Lookout Landing home of the Seattle Mariners fans
http://www.lookoutlanding.com/2010/7/13/1567197/steinbrenner-dead-at-80-after
I hate the New York Yankees
I'd expect more respect out of your franchise than the scrubby Seattle Mariners
But, if you want to compare your antics to those of the Mariners… that’s up to you.
"Winning is the most important thing in my life, after breathing. Breathing first, winning next." -George Michael Steinbrenner III
by Chris McKeown on Jul 17, 2010 1:02 AM EDT up reply actions
Wow
They are classless. But the Mariners are not good enough for us to hate! WE NEED TO HATE GOOD TEAMS!
PS. Awesome photo. Italian road signs do tend to fail sometimes…
"Son, Nobody is half as good as Mickey Mantle"
I read that, too
Just because another team’s fans are disrespectful doesn’t make it all right for you to do the same.
ah, yankees fans and red sox fans unite in our hatred of the Angels.
I love it. As for baseball popularity in So Cal: I grew up in MA and moved to LA about 3 years ago, and my assessment is that, 1. the people here are too busy creaming about the Lakers to care about baseball, and 2. the stereotype about fashion and celebrity obsession is accurate. (“I totally saw Bradley Cooper the other day. He like, walked right by me! OMG! This validates me as a person!”) It just isn’t the same cold, bitter, passionately hardcore and profound culture that fosters fan bases like those of NY and Boston. Nice post!
Homosexuality is welcome here at PSA, revived!
"Winning is the most important thing in my life, after breathing. Breathing first, winning next." -George Michael Steinbrenner III
by Chris McKeown on Jul 18, 2010 10:38 AM EDT up reply actions
Are we sure that pic isn’t the same guy and some photoshop?
"Have faith in the Yankees, my son. Think of the great DiMaggio."
I think it's more that there are something like 35 million people in CA alone
All with diverse interests in a state with a really diverse environment. There’s a lot of people and a lot to see and do. Still, the Angels and Dodgers manage to draw a combined 7 million or so a year. I think So-Cal baseball is doing just fine.
Sorry if we’ve altered your inborn hatreds. ;)
"You gotta have nuts." / "Coming Around 3rd, especially if I'm ticked off, that's going to happen." - Torii Hunter
by Commander_Nate on Jul 17, 2010 4:01 PM EDT up reply actions
this map is full of fail
"We're only going to score 17 points?" - Tom Brady
"Well played, Mauer." - Guy from PS3 commercials
"fucking hilarious!"
oops.. I meant just “hilarious”
Opus smart , lascivio magis , intereo gauisus...
+1
"Winning is the most important thing in my life, after breathing. Breathing first, winning next." -George Michael Steinbrenner III
by Chris McKeown on Jul 20, 2010 1:39 PM EDT up reply actions
+1
"Winning is the most important thing in my life, after breathing. Breathing first, winning next." -George Michael Steinbrenner III
by Chris McKeown on Jul 17, 2010 11:08 PM EDT up reply actions
i'll try to post it at HH.
Miss me PSA?
"All I ever wanted to be is a Yankee. When I was a kid, I was always hoping there'd be a jersey left for me to wear with a single digit, because all of the retired numbers." - Derek Jeter
NYY Quote of the Week.
This is 100% accurate in case any of you were wondering
"You gotta have nuts." / "Coming Around 3rd, especially if I'm ticked off, that's going to happen." - Torii Hunter
by Commander_Nate on Jul 20, 2010 8:53 PM EDT up reply actions
I know I shouldn’t have found this to be funny, but……..
Questions or thoughts? Email me at duggan2423(at)gmail(dot)com
It’s pretty funny. You think they know we don’t have an office (and I still have all my hair)?
"Have faith in the Yankees, my son. Think of the great DiMaggio."
If we did have an office, though, that’s exactly how we would use it.
Questions or thoughts? Email me at duggan2423(at)gmail(dot)com
by Lord Duggan on Jul 20, 2010 10:51 PM EDT up reply actions
Lol, yes, the fake webcomic response
Always an effective counterargument. Meh, seen them done before.
Everyone's biased for their own team, now aren't we?
Maybe we’re not so different after all…
What. Are. You?
I know I’ve heard of it before, but what is it actually supposed to be?
"You gotta have nuts." / "Coming Around 3rd, especially if I'm ticked off, that's going to happen." - Torii Hunter
by Commander_Nate on Jul 20, 2010 8:54 PM EDT up reply actions
I will not be able to sleep tonight
"Winning is the most important thing in my life, after breathing. Breathing first, winning next." -George Michael Steinbrenner III
by Chris McKeown on Jul 22, 2010 10:21 AM EDT up reply actions
they banned me
just cuase i was a yankees fan
okay i have cerebral palsy arthris and chronic fatigue as well i have a great life and loveing folks some days are better than other days i got a make-a-wish in 2001 and saw my favorite team the broncos it was the trip of a lifetime i wish everyone couild have gotten to enjoy that with me i know some of u hate the broncos and that okay but i bleed organ and bule for my mnr fans but i bleed orange and blue denver will rise again resident broncos fan for every blog resident broncos for stampede bule thanks shvd98z24 real name jeremy woodard nettleton high class of 02 yes i am a raider
It's pretty sad
Any site is more respectable than HH… they’re crying because they can’t beat the Rangers
"Winning is the most important thing in my life, after breathing. Breathing first, winning next." -George Michael Steinbrenner III
by Chris McKeown on Jul 23, 2010 8:47 AM EDT up reply actions
i know
even 3- or 4 peopie defend me its was the REV
okay i have cerebral palsy arthris and chronic fatigue as well i have a great life and loveing folks some days are better than other days i got a make-a-wish in 2001 and saw my favorite team the broncos it was the trip of a lifetime i wish everyone couild have gotten to enjoy that with me i know some of u hate the broncos and that okay but i bleed organ and bule for my mnr fans but i bleed orange and blue denver will rise again resident broncos fan for every blog resident broncos for stampede bule thanks shvd98z24 real name jeremy woodard nettleton high class of 02 yes i am a raider
yep
hit the nail on the head cause i been to boston OTM and benine fine
okay i have cerebral palsy arthris and chronic fatigue as well i have a great life and loveing folks some days are better than other days i got a make-a-wish in 2001 and saw my favorite team the broncos it was the trip of a lifetime i wish everyone couild have gotten to enjoy that with me i know some of u hate the broncos and that okay but i bleed organ and bule for my mnr fans but i bleed orange and blue denver will rise again resident broncos fan for every blog resident broncos for stampede bule thanks shvd98z24 real name jeremy woodard nettleton high class of 02 yes i am a raider












































